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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


Check out our CHEL notes with our October Patch update here.

An Update on Gameplay Feedback + Action Plan

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  • Nuckles37 wrote: »
    average size builds did NOT get their skating nerfed. unless you think 6'2 220 is average. I would say that in this game 6 - 6'1 is average. depending on build/attributes probably skate circles around any previous "current gen" game.

    plain and simple people want to play big dmen and pwf/grinders that can skate like mcdavid and hit like scott stevens. Beta had a lot of good but the fact that everyone was playing as large players and builds was so stupid. one of the best players i knew played almost exclusively as enforcer and just dominated offensively. The only problem was the occasional penalties.

    Prior to skating nerf I was using 6'2, 210lb TWD. After skating nerf I tried minimum size TWD (6'0, 200lbs) and it still felt noticeably worse. Now I'm using 5'10 or 5'11, 186lb PMD so I can feel like I can move around properly on East servers (from Vancouver).

    TWD is supposed to be an average defenseman build, balancing offense and defense. TWD height ranges from 6'0 to 6'4 or 6'5, and 200lbs to 235/240lbs. That should mean a 6'2, 210-215lb TWD is considered average size for defensemen.

    Almost everyone in the LGHL is using small builds now. It's quite frankly dumb and unrealistic.

    This. This all the way.
  • Nuckles37 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    We got two pieces of feedback during the Beta. The unanimous one was that tripping penalties were too harsh and the other was that there wasn't enough differentiation in skating -- that although the skating was almost unanimously liked, big players shouldn't have been as agile. We already had a bunch of updates complete for the Day 0 build of the game for the pokecheck/dss mechanics vs tripping logic so we didn't touch that at all. The only things we tuned in the Beta tuner were increasing the effect agility ratings had on skating to differentiate players more (which was tuning we almost opened the Beta with but waited until we got that feedback first to be sure) and updating how stamina regeneration worked in Ones.

    The two big complaints from the EASHL 6's community regarding skating have been that average size builds also got their skating nerfed pretty noticeably, and that people mostly wanted the smaller builds to get a slight boost in skating, average builds stay the same, and huge builds get a slight nerf in the beta. We loved how the skating felt fast and responsive, and now it just feels very sluggish and unresponsive (especially with higher ping). Keep in mind that most builds don't have very high skating attributes in the EASHL compared to players in HUT/VS. Maybe increasing the skating attributes for all builds would partially help. (some other attributes could use a boost as well, such as shot accuracy and power)

    The EASHL builds this year are 78ovr or around that, pretty garbage.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.
    A bit extreme considering this whole conversation is based around listening to the community and doing some rebalancing in the tuner based on what we see, have been looking to improve and taking more feedback from the community.

    You were very selective in what you took from what I had been writing as I covered not only the ability to have success on defense but also called out the separate conversation around fun factor and the type of gameplay we want to encourage, understanding that those are two separate things for people.

    All that said, most people complaining about the defensive side of goal scoring balance have actually been in the VS and HUT communities with a big focus on the low relative speed hitting and ai goalie changes.

    Since you are speaking from the perspective of competitive 6's play in LG, it is interesting to hear you take the stance that defense sucks. Most of the feedback from LG this year has been that goal scoring has been too low and if the term 'bumps' wasn't originated in the LGHL, it was certainly highly used by many in that circle to describe the issues with low relative speed hitting. After getting the feedback from a lot of the VS and HUT players, I specifically reached out to members of the competitive 6's community see if the sentiment was shared and many of them feel that the changes were good for top level 6's play. As with all of this though, it has been hard to find consensus once you get into the details, which again is all part of having open dialogue with the community around it all.

    Anyways, it is good to get the perspective since so far it hasn't been what I have seen from the LG community. We are going to continue to be all ears as more players open up with feedback.
  • Nuckles37
    80 posts Member
    edited January 6
    NHLDev wrote: »
    A bit extreme considering this whole conversation is based around listening to the community and doing some rebalancing in the tuner based on what we see, have been looking to improve and taking more feedback from the community.

    You were very selective in what you took from what I had been writing as I covered not only the ability to have success on defense but also called out the separate conversation around fun factor and the type of gameplay we want to encourage, understanding that those are two separate things for people.

    All that said, most people complaining about the defensive side of goal scoring balance have actually been in the VS and HUT communities with a big focus on the low relative speed hitting and ai goalie changes.

    Since you are speaking from the perspective of competitive 6's play in LG, it is interesting to hear you take the stance that defense sucks. Most of the feedback from LG this year has been that goal scoring has been too low and if the term 'bumps' wasn't originated in the LGHL, it was certainly highly used by many in that circle to describe the issues with low relative speed hitting. After getting the feedback from a lot of the VS and HUT players, I specifically reached out to members of the competitive 6's community see if the sentiment was shared and many of them feel that the changes were good for top level 6's play. As with all of this though, it has been hard to find consensus once you get into the details, which again is all part of having open dialogue with the community around it all.

    Anyways, it is good to get the perspective since so far it hasn't been what I have seen from the LG community. We are going to continue to be all ears as more players open up with feedback.

    I've mentioned this before, but a big reason why defense might seem overpowered might be because incidental contact is so effective and offensive tools aren't as effective as they've been in past games.

    Poke checking seems to draw more penalties than in past NHL games, especially if you're a bit too close to the puck carrier. Stick lifting has had it's ups and downs this year, but now it kind of seems like the puck carrier will retain possession of the puck most of the time after being stick lifted so it's not super effective. Bumps were too effective in the beta/on release, but the strong nerf to them seems to have also impacted regular hitting, and it feels like the protective bubble around the puck carrier is back from previous games. Pass interceptions also seem very hit and miss, there are times when I'm in good position to intercept the pass and my guy just looks at the puck going by him.

    Shot accuracy and power seems low overall, but it's especially bad from further out. One-timers from the blueline are pointless. Half the time your shot gets blocked from incidental body/stick contact, the other half of the time it's a weak, inaccurate shot that results in an easy save. And because of this people have to move a lot closer to the net or pass to someone closer to the net to get a decent scoring chance, making it easier to defend against. The only shots from far out that are a threat are low/weak shots that result in rebounds or deflections.

    Considering these things, just skating into the puck carrier (without hitting) is the the most effective and safest way to take the puck away (at least in EASHL 6's). While pass interceptions seem hit and miss, if you clog the slot with a few guys it prevents most shots/passes from getting through.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    First off, I wanted to say thank you for the rollback. I've always been an ardent defender of Tuner 1.00, which I found to be perfect (and better than the beta). I agree with your old sentiment that you all had it right at release.

    Always appreciate constructive feedback. The thing is, there is a ton of subjectivity in this quote:
    But when it is so hard to play defense, it becomes nearly impossible to have a skill gap on defense.

    I see things differently and that the skill gap is as wide as it has ever been this year on defense. Obviously my opinion can be seen as subjective as well but I try to use general data and personal statistic experience to back it up as well. If all players got worse on defense, I would be able to understand that claim but in reality, we see top players holding teams to very little scoring still. Personally, I have 10 shutouts in my last 12 online VS games and play decent competition since I am around rank 150 and in the mid 800s for CR. Not sure where I would land if I was able to play more games or not but I get beat when I play 900+ CR players at times so I am close to my sweet spot when playing as the Canucks. So I am speaking from experience, not just defending the game, when I say that I believe players have the tools they need to be successful on defense.

    But that is also why I bring up the point of the style of gameplay we want to promote being separate from straight skill gap conversations. There was still a big skill gap between players before even if a little less on defense specifically, so I feel that if we left that tuner and were where we are today, it would be the same players in the Top 100. I don't think we shifted anything drastically when it comes to the general separation of player skill. However, in tight games, in very competitive play, when you look at players getting bailed out after making bad decisions on defense, when those chances may only happen once in a tight game, it starts to decide games and is a bigger issue and that is why we looked at the tuning we did. I had learned things form this last tuner and had a next tuner that I was dialing in for potential release before the rollback proposal was brought up. One of the things I can judge from the rollback feedback will be how on point I was with my next thoughts for a tuner from my own experiences and what I was hearing from the community.

    The flaw in your logic on defensive skill gap is you're paying too much attention to the top 100, while ignoring the middle 80%. You've taken away some of the tools that differenciate someone in say the top 30% defensively from someone say in the bottom 30% defensively. Sure the top 100 are still the top 100, and the worst players are still the worst, but the vast majority in between has been flattened out. Before the tuners (and last year) I could beat very good players (not the very best) with defense, and no, I've never skill-zoned. I wasn't great offensively, but I could hold down the fort against most players on defense while scoring just enough to win. Since the tuners, most games come down to who can score the most short-side goals and one-timers before the buzzer. The tools most of us use to defend are gone. You can't work with the AI, they don't help out anymore [there's vast difference between letting the AI do all the work versus working together with the AI]. You can't maintain great positioning anymore, because the skating was nerfed so you can't make the small adjustments necessary anymore. You can't knock a puck ragger off the puck anymore, they just bounce off unless you hit them really solid, which isn't going to happen if you're opponent is at all decent. Poking or stick lifting must be perfect [which is a good thing--last year's poke-spamming fest was atrocious], and again, if you're opponent is halfway decent, he's not going to give you an opportunity for it.

    I play mostly EASHL 3s and HUT, but I've been playing more HUT lately, so this post is mainly from that perspective. You're very right that the skill gap between the very top players and the rest of us is wider, the problem is, to re-word what I said earlier, the skill gap (on defense) amongst the vast, vast majority in the middle has been shrunk down. Most games are decided by who's better offensively now, your defensive skill is of little consequence now.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Sarreke wrote: »
    Any word on finally getting authentic goal songs back in the game. AKA Chelsea Dagger????!!!!

    Can’t claim “EA, it’s in the game without it.”

    Well, I have a personal bias towards the authentic goal music as I was responsible for presentation and music when we added those in and it was one of my initiatives to see how many we could land.

    I am not as closely tied to it now, with a sole focus on Gameplay but I know they weren't able to re-sign those deals for this year. I am not sure if there are plans to revisit for future years or not.

    Keep in mind, when I made those goal songs a big focus, there were a lot of people that weren't happy with the soundtrack so there are pros and cons to different directions.

    The soundtrack should be secondary to authentic goal songs, at least IMHO. I like the days when the soundtrack was a bunch of bands/songs that I never heard of before and were not mainstream.

    The in-game experience is much more important than songs playing during the menu navigation. Come to think about it, custom music was even better.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.
    A bit extreme considering this whole conversation is based around listening to the community and doing some rebalancing in the tuner based on what we see, have been looking to improve and taking more feedback from the community.

    You were very selective in what you took from what I had been writing as I covered not only the ability to have success on defense but also called out the separate conversation around fun factor and the type of gameplay we want to encourage, understanding that those are two separate things for people.

    All that said, most people complaining about the defensive side of goal scoring balance have actually been in the VS and HUT communities with a big focus on the low relative speed hitting and ai goalie changes.

    Since you are speaking from the perspective of competitive 6's play in LG, it is interesting to hear you take the stance that defense sucks. Most of the feedback from LG this year has been that goal scoring has been too low and if the term 'bumps' wasn't originated in the LGHL, it was certainly highly used by many in that circle to describe the issues with low relative speed hitting. After getting the feedback from a lot of the VS and HUT players, I specifically reached out to members of the competitive 6's community see if the sentiment was shared and many of them feel that the changes were good for top level 6's play. As with all of this though, it has been hard to find consensus once you get into the details, which again is all part of having open dialogue with the community around it all.

    Anyways, it is good to get the perspective since so far it hasn't been what I have seen from the LG community. We are going to continue to be all ears as more players open up with feedback.

    Out of curiosity, when you reach out to LG, are you talking to leadership (BMCDONALD, etc.), are you talking to top scoring NHL players, are you talking to random AHL players, are you talking to managers, or are you talking to all of those groups directly?

    From my (admittedly long-past but extensive experience there) those different groups will have radically different opinions on the gameplay. LG was never a monolith of opinion, regardless of the outward appearance given by leadership. They always like to "present a united front" so to speak, but opinions amongst their membership were never unanimous.
  • What about the dressing room errors?
  • langowski39
    71 posts Member
    edited January 6
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.
    A bit extreme considering this whole conversation is based around listening to the community and doing some rebalancing in the tuner based on what we see, have been looking to improve and taking more feedback from the community.

    You were very selective in what you took from what I had been writing as I covered not only the ability to have success on defense but also called out the separate conversation around fun factor and the type of gameplay we want to encourage, understanding that those are two separate things for people.

    All that said, most people complaining about the defensive side of goal scoring balance have actually been in the VS and HUT communities with a big focus on the low relative speed hitting and ai goalie changes.

    Since you are speaking from the perspective of competitive 6's play in LG, it is interesting to hear you take the stance that defense sucks. Most of the feedback from LG this year has been that goal scoring has been too low and if the term 'bumps' wasn't originated in the LGHL, it was certainly highly used by many in that circle to describe the issues with low relative speed hitting. After getting the feedback from a lot of the VS and HUT players, I specifically reached out to members of the competitive 6's community see if the sentiment was shared and many of them feel that the changes were good for top level 6's play. As with all of this though, it has been hard to find consensus once you get into the details, which again is all part of having open dialogue with the community around it all.

    Anyways, it is good to get the perspective since so far it hasn't been what I have seen from the LG community. We are going to continue to be all ears as more players open up with feedback.

    I appreciate you guys at-least owning your mistake here but at the same time I feel like you are only tuning for one aspect of the game. I have played 6s and Club since NHL 09. I recently got back into the game when I got a PS4 for Red Dead. I have always be mostly a defense only player and this year after the recent tuners I have straight up felt with its pick my poison on how I defend especially the rush and 2 on 1 situations. 2 on 1 I make a play on puck carrier if I feel like I basically have to run at him with the skill stick pointed out to make a play other wise its a easy cross crease. Too many times have I lined up a hit and have actually felt a pocket of air in the controls because the action of him turning to react to the hit now cancels out my check. How is that even possible? I mean all you have to do as the offense of player is cut right or left when they go to hit you and will be able to escape way too often if not all the time. Now if I cover the cross crease the goalie just lets it in short side nearly all the time I'm up against someone that knows what they are doing. It makes the game hard to play and quite frankly unenjoyable. There are so many times when myself or another team are taking way a passing lane or have a lane covered and the game rarely calls intercept animation or even attempts an intercept. I know they are they because I have seen them before. It really seems like you tone down the defensive vision. In addition I have seen the puck pas within a couple feet of a teammate and they never reach for the puck again this is an animation I have seen before. This leads to a feeling of the game being random and I will go as far to say and is the feeling of people I play with currently and played with in the past that you guys are scripting outcomes to plays and games.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • Just want to throw out there that my opinions were based around the flow of the game and a more realistic representation of the things which make a game of hockey special. It makes no difference as to whether it’s a triple overtime at 1-1 or 5-5 it’s about the tools making sense on both sides of the puck and of course the speed of the game. While I appreciate the logic and need for data the mind of an engineer(dev) requires the thing most of us are lobbying for with our various arguements is a less tangible thing.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • NHLDev
    1364 posts NHL Developer
    edited January 6
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    I've mentioned this before, but a big reason why defense might seem overpowered might be because incidental contact is so effective and offensive tools aren't as effective as they've been in past games.
    First off, thanks for all the details.

    We have spoken about this before and the consensus from most was that incidental contact was a great thing for the game that players wouldn't want to see taken away. However, this only comes into play when players get in tight to individual players to beat them 1 on 1 with the puck or try to do too much as an individual through a crowd of players. That is where a good team based game and passing come into play. The puck carrier also gets to drive and the defense has to react so if you allow a defender to angle you out and tighten a gap where you lose the puck to incidental contact, you haven't made the right choices. If it is multiple players that are able to close off the puck carrier, then there must be some players open to pass to.
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    Poke checking seems to draw more penalties than in past NHL games, especially if you're a bit too close to the puck carrier.
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    Stick lifting has had it's ups and downs this year, but now it kind of seems like the puck carrier will retain possession of the puck most of the time after being stick lifted so it's not super effective. Bumps were too effective in the beta/on release, but the strong nerf to them seems to have also impacted regular hitting, and it feels like the protective bubble around the puck carrier is back from previous games.
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    A few posts ago you mentioned that you are personally playing with a PMD and that the majority of players in LG are playing as small players. Attributes matter within the mechanics so if you elect to pick smaller more offensive classes, you won't have as much success in the defensive aspects of the game.

    As far as some details:
    There were a couple of things we addressed with pokechecks and tripping penalties this year. Randomness, spamming and success/lack of consequence from poking at poor positions were the biggest pieces.

    Overall, players feel that poking and penalties are in a good spot. There is still a learning curve to go for players that are still taking lots of penalties but there are even players out there that wish it was even harsher.

    The only thing that was changed for stick lifts this year was removing randomness around penalties being let go and improving the recognition of body contact from the defensive players stick before making stick contact. If you are getting successful stick lifts but the offensive player is getting the puck back, it is either due to the angle of the sticks not being ideal enough for leverage and/or in part with the defensive players ratings vs the offensive player as the quality of the stick lift and how much the offensive player is lifted is all a product of the calculation of those things each time it occurs.

    For pass interceptions, it does come down to reaction time which is also graded by your current preparedness and facing angle to the puck and your players ratings. As I mentioned above, if players are picking smaller more offensive builds with lower defensive ratings, this does come into play in their reaction time but inside our planned tuning, we see players picking off passes with a lot of success this year. In the specific video you posted, I am not sure if that is you as your OFD or not but if so, it is possible that a better defensive class picks off that pass under the same circumstance -- but you may also have more success if you went into a glide rather than crossing over which could have made it harder to use your skates to pickup if the solve with your stick wasn't going to be fast enough.
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    Shot accuracy and power seems low overall, but it's especially bad from further out. One-timers from the blueline are pointless. Half the time your shot gets blocked from incidental body/stick contact, the other half of the time it's a weak, inaccurate shot that results in an easy save. And because of this people have to move a lot closer to the net or pass to someone closer to the net to get a decent scoring chance, making it easier to defend against. The only shots from far out that are a threat are low/weak shots that result in rebounds or deflections.
    Shot accuracy will always be worse from further out. That is just how a shot trajectory works. The same error from just outside the crease is going to have less of an impact once it reaches the net than a shot from the blueline. Since you are talking about EASHL specifically here, the biggest thing for these types of goals outside of the classes shooting and their resulting slapshot power and accuracy is probably more to do with goalie tuning where we could make screens have more of an impact on User goalies again and we have already talked about how forgiving their reach is with the current tuning -- goalies get away with being off their line a bit more than they should at times and the further the shot is away, the more this means they will always be able to get a limb there in time.
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    Considering these things, just skating into the puck carrier (without hitting) is the the most effective and safest way to take the puck away (at least in EASHL 6's). While pass interceptions seem hit and miss, if you clog the slot with a few guys it prevents most shots/passes from getting through.

    At a high level, this sort of just sounds like hockey. Having a puck carrier skate into you would be the easiest way to play defense but a good puck carrier and puck moving team should never do that.

    I would have the players you are playing with really consider the builds they are using when it comes to pass interceptions but it also has to do with the actions you are doing and the reaction time you give your player relative their attribute ability that makes the main differences.

    For 6's especially, I do think we should be looking back at user goalie tuning and have talked to some in the community about this already. If screens had a bigger impact on user goalies again like it does on ai goalies, the defense would need to be more aware of that and an offense who sees collapsing defense could look to take more shots through those screens. If shots get blocked though, they get blocked.
  • Out of curiosity, when you reach out to LG, are you talking to leadership (BMCDONALD, etc.), are you talking to top scoring NHL players, are you talking to random AHL players, are you talking to managers, or are you talking to all of those groups directly?

    From my (admittedly long-past but extensive experience there) those different groups will have radically different opinions on the gameplay. LG was never a monolith of opinion, regardless of the outward appearance given by leadership. They always like to "present a united front" so to speak, but opinions amongst their membership were never unanimous.
    Through social media, everyone has a voice so if people want to be heard, it usually runs past my eyes. Certain things gain consensus as that is just the nature of social networks so some issues rise up higher than others but as we have discussions like this, as you have seen, sometimes players start out aligned with the general though that things need to change only to realize they are asking for completely opposite things when you get into the details.

    I can then have conversations on places like these boards or take things I am seeing to groups like LG Leadership or the Gamechangers asking them about what they are hearing in their circles for more perspective. Since I have also formulated my own views from what I have seen from the communities feedback and what I have seen myself through playing, we can challenge each other in those conversations, give examples, and run through hypothetical scenarios of what impact certain changes would have on the game.

    Sometimes we talk about something and let it sit for a while and then revisit it after players have played more games. Some things die down and others build to be more prevalent issues. All part of making games.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    For pass interceptions, it does come down to reaction time which is also graded by your current preparedness and facing angle to the puck and your players ratings. As I mentioned above, if players are picking smaller more offensive builds with lower defensive ratings, this does come into play in their reaction time but inside our planned tuning, we see players picking off passes with a lot of success this year. In the specific video you posted, I am not sure if that is you as your OFD or not but if so, it is possible that a better defensive class picks off that pass under the same circumstance -- but you may also have more success if you went into a glide rather than crossing over which could have made it harder to use your skates to pickup if the solve with your stick wasn't going to be fast enough.

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?

  • Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.

    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.
  • TheMajjam
    439 posts Member
    edited January 6
    NHLDev wrote: »

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.

    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    You are making too much sense with each post here, dude. :smiley: Are you an Xbox or PS4 player?
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.

    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    You are making too much sense with each post here, dude. :smiley: Are you an Xbox or PS4 player?

    Lol thanks. Xbox
  • This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    We haven't changed anything this year between 1.00 and 1.03 in regards to intercepting passes or pass deflections.

    Are you using the same teams and player classes? and just for reference what classes are you using?

    Is it possible the opponents you are playing against are more aware of the game mechanics and are passing in ways that don't allow you to react in time by shortening the pass distance, increasing their pass speed, passing at angles that are harder to intercept, using saucer more, etc?

    I understand that you wouldn't choose it and find it hard to believe that others asked for it but overall, we get 6's players asking for the game to be more manual and want to have to manually poke, use defensive skill stick, chop, etc. to break up plays rather than auto actions. So one reason they requested that it wouldn't do it under certain logic was for skill gap (they actually asked for it to be completely taken out but I compromised with them about the logic for with/against skating direction and glides/low speed). The other reason they requested it was closer to what you are saying where if it missed or only got a small piece of the puck, it could compromise them when really they were fine with the pass landing but just needed that extra stride they were trying to take to get goal side of the receiver rather than the game lunging and slowing them down a bit like it did in previous years and possibly giving up a better opportunity. They wanted more manual control over that. I believe it was NHL 17 that we modified the logic for them as a request from the competitive 6's community so this isn't new.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.

    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    You are making too much sense with each post here, dude. :smiley: Are you an Xbox or PS4 player?

    Lol thanks. Xbox

    I would reinstall to play D with you. There's an almost science and methodology that comes with the position I think you seem to understand that a good majority of players don't get.

    LawfulRingedGalapagospenguin-size_restricted.gif
  • GOW_LIKE_A_BOSS
    536 posts Member
    edited January 6
    NHLDev wrote: »
    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    We haven't changed anything this year between 1.00 and 1.03 in regards to intercepting passes or pass deflections.

    Are you using the same teams and player classes? and just for reference what classes are you using?

    Is it possible the opponents you are playing against are more aware of the game mechanics and are passing in ways that don't allow you to react in time by shortening the pass distance, increasing their pass speed, passing at angles that are harder to intercept, using saucer more, etc?

    I understand that you wouldn't choose it and find it hard to believe that others asked for it but overall, we get 6's players asking for the game to be more manual and want to have to manually poke, use defensive skill stick, chop, etc. to break up plays rather than auto actions. So one reason they requested that it wouldn't do it under certain logic was for skill gap (they actually asked for it to be completely taken out but I compromised with them about the logic for with/against skating direction and glides/low speed). The other reason they requested it was closer to what you are saying where if it missed or only got a small piece of the puck, it could compromise them when really they were fine with the pass landing but just needed that extra stride they were trying to take to get goal side of the receiver rather than the game lunging and slowing them down a bit like it did in previous years and possibly giving up a better opportunity. They wanted more manual control over that. I believe it was NHL 17 that we modified the logic for them as a request from the competitive 6's community so this isn't new.

    Well in 1.00 I play offline with the NHL players. Online I play Hut, and most of my guys are the 84 -86 overall alumni guys with defensive awareness around 82 through 88.

    Most of my pings online are 40-50, so I doubt I'm just lagging and don't know where my guy is. Is there a nerf to interceptions while backskating over skating forwards?

    Offline, I do change some sliders, but I don't change the pass interception one. [Deleted. My attribute effects are actually still 5/10 after double checking].

    ====
    Edit: Nevermind, I'm wrong lol. My pass interception slider is on 80 offline for both CPU and Human. I thought 80 was standard, but I checked and default was 50. That's why it's so much easier to intercept on defense for me offline 🤗

    I think 80 is a bit much, but any chance of getting the online interceptions slider bumped up a bit in Tuner 1.04? It sure is a lot harder to force passes with the slider cranked up lol
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