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NHL 20 Content Update October 1st


Check out our latest content update, bug fixes & key areas on which we need your feedback here.

An Update on Gameplay Feedback + Action Plan

Replies

  • Personally 5 minute periods are fine. One of the major things that I think is being over looked and is a question I have is how do you program these tuners? It seems this year playing 1.00 that you guys had new programing techniques for core mechanics that led to a more fluid and realistic feeling. Now with tuners 1.02 and 1.03 it feels very much like you plugged in values that worked with older games. For instance in EASHL now when someone on my team has a breakaway all I have to do at low speed is step in front of a guy chasing the puck carrier with my back facing him and once he makes contact with me it kills all his momentum and I just stand there fine just getting pushed down the ice a bit.

    Second you have spoken about the defense being the ones to force the offense to get more creative. I would argue that 1.00 1.01 kills any argument to anyone saying defense was to easy. In the first couple weeks I saw more goals that created through actual passing and spreading the defense. I would say the fact that defense finally felt like it had the tools counter the offense. In fact when you ran up against some guys who actually where varying what they where doing it was an actual challenge. It took away the one trick pony style of play. No longer could you get the defense on an island and go pick your poison you step up on my I pass for a cross crease, don't step up on me and Ill just snipe it short side.

    The physics system is new but what people feel resembles the old system is the breaking point between incidental contact and stumbles. At low relative speeds, shoves from behind were triggering stumbles easily and players weren't able to keep the puck in stumbles the way we intended (something we are looking at improving moving forward) so the best way to tune it for balance was change the threshold for what the player can withstand and still be in incidental. When players see an incidental contact that doesn't create a lot of movement from the player, that is what they feel is a bubble. From a game balance perspective, we intend with the tuning for the player to keep the puck in those cases but for realism, players should still see the puck carrier react a little more and shrug off the check more than being so lightly impacted. But that is a separate piece.

    There isn't a difference between 1.00 and 1.03 in regards to the scenario you mention around what incidental body position will do to a player that runs into you. The physical weight of a player and the individual limb tensions are part of the physics system and haven't been tuned from what they were at in the Beta so that behavior should actually be the same.

    During the Beta and the early days with the game, the chance that you played top competition each time you played games is a lot lower as players were less likely seeded in their respective CR ranges that early on. So that alone would change the style of gameplay you would see on a game by game basis. The tuning itself did help players hang on to the puck if they are able to keep relative speeds low and avoid players that are going for hits when they don't actually have the puck carrier committed and are doing so when the puck carrier can still react to them. That is where the discussions have gone in terms of the type of gameplay we want to promote on average. We know that players can play solid defense and force teams to need to move the puck. We also know that against weak defenses, it is exactly as you say where a team can have their way with them and adapt on the fly and score at will -- but that isn't the case against a good defense and that is why we see top level EASHL teams going to 1-0 games. If they want to score more, they need to continue to switch up their offense, get creative and get the defense moving more -- and again the counter to that shows that when players are less skilled, goals fill the net and we do see very high scoring games so it all comes down to the players playing and how well they actually do work as a team on both offense and defense.

    Will the tuning shift the need to get rid of the puck quicker? Most likely. But we won't know until we try if it is actually night and day. How much will the matchmaking now that players are in their proper relative rankings impact the gameplay regardless of the tuning being used? Time will tell.
  • Feels as if these conversations are becoming very circular with everyone already having some sort of opinion understandably preloaded.


    We’re all kinda spinning our wheels until this thing drops.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • This should be a very interesting experiment ....going back to the beta... now that most of us have been playing nhl19 for a few months.

    Should lead to a lot less knee jerk reactions ...and we should be able to get the tuning right this time around.
  • All I know is if I hear the phrase "low relative speed hits/shoves" one more time I'm going to blow a freaking gasket. #bringbackthebeta
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Personally 5 minute periods are fine. One of the major things that I think is being over looked and is a question I have is how do you program these tuners? It seems this year playing 1.00 that you guys had new programing techniques for core mechanics that led to a more fluid and realistic feeling. Now with tuners 1.02 and 1.03 it feels very much like you plugged in values that worked with older games. For instance in EASHL now when someone on my team has a breakaway all I have to do at low speed is step in front of a guy chasing the puck carrier with my back facing him and once he makes contact with me it kills all his momentum and I just stand there fine just getting pushed down the ice a bit.

    Second you have spoken about the defense being the ones to force the offense to get more creative. I would argue that 1.00 1.01 kills any argument to anyone saying defense was to easy. In the first couple weeks I saw more goals that created through actual passing and spreading the defense. I would say the fact that defense finally felt like it had the tools counter the offense. In fact when you ran up against some guys who actually where varying what they where doing it was an actual challenge. It took away the one trick pony style of play. No longer could you get the defense on an island and go pick your poison you step up on my I pass for a cross crease, don't step up on me and Ill just snipe it short side.

    The physics system is new but what people feel resembles the old system is the breaking point between incidental contact and stumbles. At low relative speeds, shoves from behind were triggering stumbles easily and players weren't able to keep the puck in stumbles the way we intended (something we are looking at improving moving forward) so the best way to tune it for balance was change the threshold for what the player can withstand and still be in incidental. When players see an incidental contact that doesn't create a lot of movement from the player, that is what they feel is a bubble. From a game balance perspective, we intend with the tuning for the player to keep the puck in those cases but for realism, players should still see the puck carrier react a little more and shrug off the check more than being so lightly impacted. But that is a separate piece.

    There isn't a difference between 1.00 and 1.03 in regards to the scenario you mention around what incidental body position will do to a player that runs into you. The physical weight of a player and the individual limb tensions are part of the physics system and haven't been tuned from what they were at in the Beta so that behavior should actually be the same.

    During the Beta and the early days with the game, the chance that you played top competition each time you played games is a lot lower as players were less likely seeded in their respective CR ranges that early on. So that alone would change the style of gameplay you would see on a game by game basis. The tuning itself did help players hang on to the puck if they are able to keep relative speeds low and avoid players that are going for hits when they don't actually have the puck carrier committed and are doing so when the puck carrier can still react to them. That is where the discussions have gone in terms of the type of gameplay we want to promote on average. We know that players can play solid defense and force teams to need to move the puck. We also know that against weak defenses, it is exactly as you say where a team can have their way with them and adapt on the fly and score at will -- but that isn't the case against a good defense and that is why we see top level EASHL teams going to 1-0 games. If they want to score more, they need to continue to switch up their offense, get creative and get the defense moving more -- and again the counter to that shows that when players are less skilled, goals fill the net and we do see very high scoring games so it all comes down to the players playing and how well they actually do work as a team on both offense and defense.

    Will the tuning shift the need to get rid of the puck quicker? Most likely. But we won't know until we try if it is actually night and day. How much will the matchmaking now that players are in their proper relative rankings impact the gameplay regardless of the tuning being used? Time will tell.

    For myself, tuning should reflect team play. Normally in hockey, the best ways to score are getting payers to move around. The more the D is forced to move and the more the goalie is forced to move, the more chances you have at getting players out of position and create chaos.

    That being said, tuning should be aimed at killing one-man shows. Forcing these players to move and cycle the puck by making physical plays and D more viable. Goalies should be less forgiving on one-timers and while having to make saves on the move. At this point in time, I don't feel like the tuning promotes this. Goalies are making too many incredible saves per game, giving up too many weak goals per game, and selfish players are being rewarded too much. It isn't for nothing most D players prefer a conservative game and collapse towards the net.

    If goalies were easier to score on while moving around and players have to move the puck due to higher physical capabilities, it gets all players involved in the game. D men would actually touch the puck in the offensive zone. One-timers become viable from the blue line. It would essentially open up more areas on the ice than we currently see. Tired of seeing players twirl down low in the corners to abuse low speed contact as a very viable strategy. Seems like offense is always clustered in the same 2 areas every single game.
  • I am truly interested in seeing how this plays out because I am not so confident it will play all that much different than what we have now. We'll see by the reaction on here though. I enjoyed the beta so I look forward to copying down the sliders and adjusting what I feel needs to be adjusted to my liking. Most notably the penalty sliders versus the CPU to have them commit more infractions.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • LeFury_27
    203 posts Member
    edited January 11
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Personally 5 minute periods are fine. One of the major things that I think is being over looked and is a question I have is how do you program these tuners? It seems this year playing 1.00 that you guys had new programing techniques for core mechanics that led to a more fluid and realistic feeling. Now with tuners 1.02 and 1.03 it feels very much like you plugged in values that worked with older games. For instance in EASHL now when someone on my team has a breakaway all I have to do at low speed is step in front of a guy chasing the puck carrier with my back facing him and once he makes contact with me it kills all his momentum and I just stand there fine just getting pushed down the ice a bit.

    Second you have spoken about the defense being the ones to force the offense to get more creative. I would argue that 1.00 1.01 kills any argument to anyone saying defense was to easy. In the first couple weeks I saw more goals that created through actual passing and spreading the defense. I would say the fact that defense finally felt like it had the tools counter the offense. In fact when you ran up against some guys who actually where varying what they where doing it was an actual challenge. It took away the one trick pony style of play. No longer could you get the defense on an island and go pick your poison you step up on my I pass for a cross crease, don't step up on me and Ill just snipe it short side.

    The physics system is new but what people feel resembles the old system is the breaking point between incidental contact and stumbles. At low relative speeds, shoves from behind were triggering stumbles easily and players weren't able to keep the puck in stumbles the way we intended (something we are looking at improving moving forward) so the best way to tune it for balance was change the threshold for what the player can withstand and still be in incidental. When players see an incidental contact that doesn't create a lot of movement from the player, that is what they feel is a bubble. From a game balance perspective, we intend with the tuning for the player to keep the puck in those cases but for realism, players should still see the puck carrier react a little more and shrug off the check more than being so lightly impacted. But that is a separate piece.

    There isn't a difference between 1.00 and 1.03 in regards to the scenario you mention around what incidental body position will do to a player that runs into you. The physical weight of a player and the individual limb tensions are part of the physics system and haven't been tuned from what they were at in the Beta so that behavior should actually be the same.

    During the Beta and the early days with the game, the chance that you played top competition each time you played games is a lot lower as players were less likely seeded in their respective CR ranges that early on. So that alone would change the style of gameplay you would see on a game by game basis. The tuning itself did help players hang on to the puck if they are able to keep relative speeds low and avoid players that are going for hits when they don't actually have the puck carrier committed and are doing so when the puck carrier can still react to them. That is where the discussions have gone in terms of the type of gameplay we want to promote on average. We know that players can play solid defense and force teams to need to move the puck. We also know that against weak defenses, it is exactly as you say where a team can have their way with them and adapt on the fly and score at will -- but that isn't the case against a good defense and that is why we see top level EASHL teams going to 1-0 games. If they want to score more, they need to continue to switch up their offense, get creative and get the defense moving more -- and again the counter to that shows that when players are less skilled, goals fill the net and we do see very high scoring games so it all comes down to the players playing and how well they actually do work as a team on both offense and defense.

    Will the tuning shift the need to get rid of the puck quicker? Most likely. But we won't know until we try if it is actually night and day. How much will the matchmaking now that players are in their proper relative rankings impact the gameplay regardless of the tuning being used? Time will tell.

    For myself, tuning should reflect team play. Normally in hockey, the best ways to score are getting payers to move around. The more the D is forced to move and the more the goalie is forced to move, the more chances you have at getting players out of position and create chaos.

    That being said, tuning should be aimed at killing one-man shows. Forcing these players to move and cycle the puck by making physical plays and D more viable. Goalies should be less forgiving on one-timers and while having to make saves on the move. At this point in time, I don't feel like the tuning promotes this. Goalies are making too many incredible saves per game, giving up too many weak goals per game, and selfish players are being rewarded too much. It isn't for nothing most D players prefer a conservative game and collapse towards the net.

    If goalies were easier to score on while moving around and players have to move the puck due to higher physical capabilities, it gets all players involved in the game. D men would actually touch the puck in the offensive zone. One-timers become viable from the blue line. It would essentially open up more areas on the ice than we currently see. Tired of seeing players twirl down low in the corners to abuse low speed contact as a very viable strategy. Seems like offense is always clustered in the same 2 areas every single game.

    Great post, 100% agree.

    Skill gap should be focused towards quick, smart puck movement and team play. Like you said the current tuning is all about 1 man shows. After all Hockey IS a team sport and playing individualistic hockey coupled with slow puck movement will result in a loss every time in real life.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.
  • Kriptical476
    377 posts Member
    edited January 11
    Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.

    If you do, please take video. If not for us, for the doctor.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.



    8VNkBX3.gif

    Show me again where it's twisted unnatural oh ya because it's not. Go look up highlights from Jagr, Peter Forsberg, McDavid, MacKinnon, Horvat. They can all do this and in many cases what they do is 1 hand on the stick and use their other hand to shield from the player and stick. And the facts were shown. Done here
  • KidShowtime1867
    949 posts Member
    edited January 11
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.



    8VNkBX3.gif

    Show me again where it's twisted unnatural oh ya because it's not. Go look up highlights from Jagr, Peter Forsberg, McDavid, MacKinnon, Horvat. They can all do this and in many cases what they do is 1 hand on the stick and use their other hand to shield from the player and stick. And the facts were shown. Done here

    Awesome video.

    Also - LD doesn't seem very skilled on DSS. Too focused on trying to cut off a pass - but the backchecking LW already has that covered. Should've instead used DSS to fade the winger in to the boards.

    The inability for LD to read that allowed the player to blow by them.

    It's not " holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal" - it's getting a step on a defenceman due to their lack of skill on D.
  • WainGretSki
    2854 posts Member
    edited January 11
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.



    8VNkBX3.gif

    Show me again where it's twisted unnatural oh ya because it's not. Go look up highlights from Jagr, Peter Forsberg, McDavid, MacKinnon, Horvat. They can all do this and in many cases what they do is 1 hand on the stick and use their other hand to shield from the player and stick. And the facts were shown. Done here

    If that is what you call realism, then all the power to you. And for your info, you can only twist unnaturally on the forehand, not the backhand. Thought you would know this since you play alot.
  • Kriptical476
    377 posts Member
    edited January 11
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.



    8VNkBX3.gif

    Show me again where it's twisted unnatural oh ya because it's not. Go look up highlights from Jagr, Peter Forsberg, McDavid, MacKinnon, Horvat. They can all do this and in many cases what they do is 1 hand on the stick and use their other hand to shield from the player and stick. And the facts were shown. Done here

    Awesome video.

    Also - LD doesn't seem very skilled on DSS. Too focused on trying to cut off a pass - but the backchecking LW already has that covered. Should've instead used DSS to fade the winger in to the boards.

    The inability for LD to read that allowed the player to blow by them.

    It's not " holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal" - it's getting a step on a defenceman due to their lack of skill on D.

    Dunno...on the ice..with those angles even my old butt would have put that forward through the boards..at least pinned him. The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.

    PS: @WainGretSki My request for video was me being a bit..dry...regarding that last guy saying being all twisted up was a good idea. Particularly when your a couple of feet from the boards. It was weird that it choose to post your portion of the quote..was on the phone..dunno..
    I know what you were going for in that video and agree it highlights the problem well.

    [Socair - edited swear filter]
    Post edited by Socair on
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.

    It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?

    As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play

    How does holding your stick behind your back while twisting your upper body beyond normal, while maintaining puck possession, bracing for impact? Go to your local rink at try it out.



    8VNkBX3.gif

    Show me again where it's twisted unnatural oh ya because it's not. Go look up highlights from Jagr, Peter Forsberg, McDavid, MacKinnon, Horvat. They can all do this and in many cases what they do is 1 hand on the stick and use their other hand to shield from the player and stick. And the facts were shown. Done here

    Some people want to be rewarded for that defense & tell you offense rewards bad players. I don't get it, and I don't understand how the same 12-15 people convinced ea to bring back the beta on the back of evidence proving bad defensive positioning gets beaten as it should
  • KidShowtime1867
    949 posts Member
    edited January 11
    The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.


    So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:

    yV2avUZ.png
    zvFuEzO.png

    Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:

    sWbYzss.png

    LD should've recognized the first failed hit attempt and instantly initilized DSS at this exact frame: P7B0GAL.png and made darn certain that the stick went to the LEFT (as to avoid a tripping call)
    ....and then R3 would've poked that puck right in to the corner:




    I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.

    I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.


    Post edited by KidShowtime1867 on
  • The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.


    So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:

    yV2avUZ.png
    zvFuEzO.png

    Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:

    sWbYzss.png


    I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.

    I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.


    I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.


    So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:

    yV2avUZ.png
    zvFuEzO.png

    Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:

    sWbYzss.png


    I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.

    I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.


    I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.

    i agree, defender would of rode him into the boards irl. In game, bad defensive play cause of mechanics. Would like to see a way to stay on a player and move them in a direction based on both players momentum. Only problem is how do you draw the line of a jostle function, do you just suction to them like the board play? Would like to see something evolve to create less of a feeling like the offensive player has a bubble around them.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.


    So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:

    yV2avUZ.png
    zvFuEzO.png

    Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:

    sWbYzss.png


    I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.

    I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.


    I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.

    i agree, defender would of rode him into the boards irl. In game, bad defensive play cause of mechanics. Would like to see a way to stay on a player and move them in a direction based on both players momentum. Only problem is how do you draw the line of a jostle function, do you just suction to them like the board play? Would like to see something evolve to create less of a feeling like the offensive player has a bubble around them.

    I agree with one point & disagree with the other.

    1stly, because its important given the last few months of conversation, irl that d man doesn't ride that puck carrier to the boards. He's got the wrong angle and he mashes the wrong buttons to make a good defensive play with the tools he's given. He's beaten every way a d can be beaten and we'd have a much more constructive conversation going if people could understand they're looking at bad defense that should have failed. If we can't agree that a puck carrier should have the toolbox to beat such a poor attempt then we can't agree on anything. Unfortunately, I think a significant number of people here believe there should be a boost for bad defense.

    2ndly, I would agree that physicality could use a boost, and I think you're right on with your opinion for further board play. We should be able to ride people to the boards given we're making a good play and it makes sense. The "bubble" exists in the fact that the pin is so weak fo human controlled players, but I specifically remember a year in which it was so overpowered that you could suction players to the board in a way that made zero sense. It definitely did not improve the flow of the game.

  • jiajji wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.


    So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:

    yV2avUZ.png
    zvFuEzO.png

    Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:

    sWbYzss.png


    I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.

    I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.


    I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.

    i agree, defender would of rode him into the boards irl. In game, bad defensive play cause of mechanics. Would like to see a way to stay on a player and move them in a direction based on both players momentum. Only problem is how do you draw the line of a jostle function, do you just suction to them like the board play? Would like to see something evolve to create less of a feeling like the offensive player has a bubble around them.

    I agree with one point & disagree with the other.

    1stly, because its important given the last few months of conversation, irl that d man doesn't ride that puck carrier to the boards. He's got the wrong angle and he mashes the wrong buttons to make a good defensive play with the tools he's given. He's beaten every way a d can be beaten and we'd have a much more constructive conversation going if people could understand they're looking at bad defense that should have failed. If we can't agree that a puck carrier should have the toolbox to beat such a poor attempt then we can't agree on anything. Unfortunately, I think a significant number of people here believe there should be a boost for bad defense.

    2ndly, I would agree that physicality could use a boost, and I think you're right on with your opinion for further board play. We should be able to ride people to the boards given we're making a good play and it makes sense. The "bubble" exists in the fact that the pin is so weak fo human controlled players, but I specifically remember a year in which it was so overpowered that you could suction players to the board in a way that made zero sense. It definitely did not improve the flow of the game.

    Just for clarity, when you say IRL, it means that in todays Video game, given the current tool sets of offensive and defensive players, right?
    ..not on actual ice and stuff, with other humans...possibly even wearing pads?
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
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