Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?
I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.
This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.
Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.
@NHLDev I had another thought about this. Can we not get something of an auto poke when we are using the defensive skill stick to hold our stick in a passing lane? That would make it so it isn't truly an auto poke, and we would be able to control when we wanted it to happen. But it would also allow for pass breakups when we may not be in the best position for an interception. Sorry to drag this back up, but I just thought of this
@NHLDev I had another thought about this. Can we not get something of an auto poke when we are using the defensive skill stick to hold our stick in a passing lane? That would make it so it isn't truly an auto poke, and we would be able to control when we wanted it to happen. But it would also allow for pass breakups when we may not be in the best position for an interception. Sorry to drag this back up, but I just thought of this
There are a few different opinions on what should happen contextually in that state. Most lean towards wanting more manual actions though.
If people feel the player should have the reaction time to make a play on the puck, they should have enough reaction time to manually move their right stick, go to a kneel block and/or manually poke from that position which would track the puck relative to that players attributes and skill for a puck with that relative speed.
We originally thought they’re could be slight assistance such as a few inches in either direction to help fine correction towards the puck when using DSS but not sure if we would ever do that or not. Some players have got pretty good with the current controls and knock down/block quite a few pucks with the current mechanics.
The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.
So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:
Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:
I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.
I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.
I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.
i agree, defender would of rode him into the boards irl. In game, bad defensive play cause of mechanics. Would like to see a way to stay on a player and move them in a direction based on both players momentum. Only problem is how do you draw the line of a jostle function, do you just suction to them like the board play? Would like to see something evolve to create less of a feeling like the offensive player has a bubble around them.
I agree with one point & disagree with the other.
1stly, because its important given the last few months of conversation, irl that d man doesn't ride that puck carrier to the boards. He's got the wrong angle and he mashes the wrong buttons to make a good defensive play with the tools he's given. He's beaten every way a d can be beaten and we'd have a much more constructive conversation going if people could understand they're looking at bad defense that should have failed. If we can't agree that a puck carrier should have the toolbox to beat such a poor attempt then we can't agree on anything. Unfortunately, I think a significant number of people here believe there should be a boost for bad defense.
2ndly, I would agree that physicality could use a boost, and I think you're right on with your opinion for further board play. We should be able to ride people to the boards given we're making a good play and it makes sense. The "bubble" exists in the fact that the pin is so weak fo human controlled players, but I specifically remember a year in which it was so overpowered that you could suction players to the board in a way that made zero sense. It definitely did not improve the flow of the game.
Just for clarity, when you say IRL, it means that in todays Video game, given the current tool sets of offensive and defensive players, right?
..not on actual ice and stuff, with other humans...possibly even wearing pads?
I'm saying the still frames make it look as though the dman missed so badly he's closer to showing air between them than forcing anyone to the boards. The reason that matters is this particular play is being hailed as a touchstone for the statr-from-scratch folks, when that d was legit beat.
But if the point is that the game should provide for the ability to ride people in then I agree.
Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.
Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.
This is for @NHLDev. Please explain why the defense must be in a glide or stand still to not get negative effects yet forwards can do just about anything at uncontrolled high speeds with very limited negative consequences? It's really stupid that manual poke checking impacts the defenders speed/momentum yet the forward can manually stick handle, one touch deke, do figure skating moves, make plays with puck, etc. and they dont break stride or get punished.
The whole point of the video was to highlight the lack of being able to hit at lower speeds..not a critique of defensive skills, nor execution of DSS.
So LD throws a hit but seems to aim it behind the puck carrier:
Then, LD throws another hit when the player has already passed him:
I think that at the speed at which this play unfolds - the player with the puck did everything right to read the mis-play by the defender and utilize body positioning to negate a hit at low speed.
I can see how people think this video proves a 'bubble', but to me it just goes to show that players with the puck have the ability to negate some defensive tools if they are poorly timed or executed.
I guess what im saying is in the real world, given the situation, the D would have had enough leverage to at least disrupt the play if not make him one with the boards. Its not hard to use good edge control and body angles to get in there and do something. Doubly so because nobody is moving their feet. I get that you appreciate good exploration of mechanics and in a way I do as well. Im just not buying what their selling, as good.
i agree, defender would of rode him into the boards irl. In game, bad defensive play cause of mechanics. Would like to see a way to stay on a player and move them in a direction based on both players momentum. Only problem is how do you draw the line of a jostle function, do you just suction to them like the board play? Would like to see something evolve to create less of a feeling like the offensive player has a bubble around them.
I agree with one point & disagree with the other.
1stly, because its important given the last few months of conversation, irl that d man doesn't ride that puck carrier to the boards. He's got the wrong angle and he mashes the wrong buttons to make a good defensive play with the tools he's given. He's beaten every way a d can be beaten and we'd have a much more constructive conversation going if people could understand they're looking at bad defense that should have failed. If we can't agree that a puck carrier should have the toolbox to beat such a poor attempt then we can't agree on anything. Unfortunately, I think a significant number of people here believe there should be a boost for bad defense.
2ndly, I would agree that physicality could use a boost, and I think you're right on with your opinion for further board play. We should be able to ride people to the boards given we're making a good play and it makes sense. The "bubble" exists in the fact that the pin is so weak fo human controlled players, but I specifically remember a year in which it was so overpowered that you could suction players to the board in a way that made zero sense. It definitely did not improve the flow of the game.
Just for clarity, when you say IRL, it means that in todays Video game, given the current tool sets of offensive and defensive players, right?
..not on actual ice and stuff, with other humans...possibly even wearing pads?
I'm saying the still frames make it look as though the dman missed so badly he's closer to showing air between them than forcing anyone to the boards. The reason that matters is this particular play is being hailed as a touchstone for the statr-from-scratch folks, when that d was legit beat.
But if the point is that the game should provide for the ability to ride people in then I agree.
...you are correct in your statement that under the present tuner...in all its game crushing, bad play encouraging, generally not fun, glory.. that D was beat.
To me..the idea that someone can be coasting in that slowly and wiggle through that scenario is entirely unrealistic, and frankly annoying. I said it above, but i guess i'll say it again. In this scenario IRL even my old but would have been able to slam that forward into the boards. And really, at that slow speed the odds of him squirting through, as opposed to having my knee jammed between his legs pinning him, are fairly rare.
what we are saying is that in Beta(1.0 rly but whatev), you could impact that player disrupting the play, curbing the trash behavior which the mechanics of 1.03 encourages. Passing, running actual plays like walking the circles, running proper breakouts instead of the snooze fest which the hail mary hot dog crowd embraces so tightly. ya know...
Hockey.
We know its a game..but its 2019....cars are practically driving themselves..a little more realism in gameplay, especially because it was a tuner, isn't too much to ask.
Again...make the game for the hockey players, the gamers will always adapt...especially if something like E sports is to be considered. While we're sitting here arguing about details the big picture should always be the integrity of the game. The more sturdy that foundation is the better the game will do year over year.
All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
@NHLDev I had another thought about this. Can we not get something of an auto poke when we are using the defensive skill stick to hold our stick in a passing lane? That would make it so it isn't truly an auto poke, and we would be able to control when we wanted it to happen. But it would also allow for pass breakups when we may not be in the best position for an interception. Sorry to drag this back up, but I just thought of this
There are a few different opinions on what should happen contextually in that state. Most lean towards wanting more manual actions though.
If people feel the player should have the reaction time to make a play on the puck, they should have enough reaction time to manually move their right stick, go to a kneel block and/or manually poke from that position which would track the puck relative to that players attributes and skill for a puck with that relative speed.
We originally thought they’re could be slight assistance such as a few inches in either direction to help fine correction towards the puck when using DSS but not sure if we would ever do that or not. Some players have got pretty good with the current controls and knock down/block quite a few pucks with the current mechanics.
Removing tripping penalties on the release from DSS allows you to have full control over disrupting a play with proper positioning and I love it.
I sometimes feel that puck interactions on the defensive side of DSS are increased on the release from DSS than when you are holding DSS in a position.
That could just be me and how I’ve intepretted it - a fault in my own DSS positioning - but I definitely seem to disrupt plays far more when I initialize DSS and purposefully release it while approaching a puck carrier to have the most disruption.
This typically results in my stock disrupting a quick pass made from under pressure, which is great. But I can’t help but feel I don’t get the same disruption when holding and keeping my DSS in a passing lane.
But I think that might just be an adjustment on my part.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
There are currently no animations while a player is in 'protect puck' that would indicate that the player 'felt' the hit. This is likely why people percieve a 'bubble'.
If EA added a stumble or adjustment animation for when someone takes a hit in protect puck, then maybe this wouldn't look so jarring.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
I think I agree on this. As much as it pains me to say so as a D man, forwards do need their tools and fun as well.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
So first you said he had no speed or angle but then at the same him you said he was literally skating at the same speed as the puck carrier. Which one is it? Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me. Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
I was skating with my “head cut” cut off for a few reasons. One. Each time I thought I was in a good position to poke, it was a trip and an automatic goal. Second. These players didn’t like to move the puck. They skated like this many times. IRRC, they didn’t have ten shots on goal. They would go to the corners to snipe or wait for moments like this. I played a team that just said on the hash marks, waiting for me to go hit them, that not working and sending a pass back door.
This is what I’m talking about. He would just sit there and not move till went I after him. I get really good speed, “hit him” and he gets the puck back.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
I was skating with my “head cut” cut off for a few reasons. One. Each time I thought I was in a good position to poke, it was a trip and an automatic goal. Second. These players didn’t like to move the puck. They skated like this many times. IRRC, they didn’t have ten shots on goal. They would go to the corners to snipe or wait for moments like this. I played a team that just said on the hash marks, waiting for me to go hit them, that not working and sending a pass back door.
This is what I’m talking about. He would just sit there and not move till went I after him. I get really good speed, “hit him” and he gets the puck back.
That is a much better example of where hitting should be more effective than it currently is. I see this many many times per game, for both teams.
Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
That won't work until we revert back to beta
Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.
LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.
Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
That won't work until we revert back to beta
Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.
LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.
Long story short, this game allows puck carriers to be much more comfortable than they should be.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
As it should. It's called protecting the puck and bracing for incoming action. The dman doesn't have speed to really take a guy off the puck. The skater with the puck isn't skating and simply gliding waiting for the contact. Nothing wrong with that play
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
So first you said he had no speed or angle but then at the same him you said he was literally skating at the same speed as the puck carrier. Which one is it? Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me. Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
If you and I are moving at the same speed and I try to shove you in the back the effort will have a much greater effect on me than you. Matching speed and not having speed to execute the move are not mutually exclusive. There was no agility issue on the boards, he missed.
Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
That won't work until we revert back to beta
Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.
LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.
Long story short, this game allows puck carriers to be much more comfortable than they should be.
That’s kinda where I was getting to. It’s not just hits you can ignore, when your along the board put your stick in the boards and it’s impossible to poke or stick lift.
Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
That won't work until we revert back to beta
Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.
LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.
Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.
If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.
You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.
And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.
Replies
@NHLDev I had another thought about this. Can we not get something of an auto poke when we are using the defensive skill stick to hold our stick in a passing lane? That would make it so it isn't truly an auto poke, and we would be able to control when we wanted it to happen. But it would also allow for pass breakups when we may not be in the best position for an interception. Sorry to drag this back up, but I just thought of this
There are a few different opinions on what should happen contextually in that state. Most lean towards wanting more manual actions though.
If people feel the player should have the reaction time to make a play on the puck, they should have enough reaction time to manually move their right stick, go to a kneel block and/or manually poke from that position which would track the puck relative to that players attributes and skill for a puck with that relative speed.
We originally thought they’re could be slight assistance such as a few inches in either direction to help fine correction towards the puck when using DSS but not sure if we would ever do that or not. Some players have got pretty good with the current controls and knock down/block quite a few pucks with the current mechanics.
I'm saying the still frames make it look as though the dman missed so badly he's closer to showing air between them than forcing anyone to the boards. The reason that matters is this particular play is being hailed as a touchstone for the statr-from-scratch folks, when that d was legit beat.
But if the point is that the game should provide for the ability to ride people in then I agree.
...you are correct in your statement that under the present tuner...in all its game crushing, bad play encouraging, generally not fun, glory.. that D was beat.
To me..the idea that someone can be coasting in that slowly and wiggle through that scenario is entirely unrealistic, and frankly annoying. I said it above, but i guess i'll say it again. In this scenario IRL even my old but would have been able to slam that forward into the boards. And really, at that slow speed the odds of him squirting through, as opposed to having my knee jammed between his legs pinning him, are fairly rare.
what we are saying is that in Beta(1.0 rly but whatev), you could impact that player disrupting the play, curbing the trash behavior which the mechanics of 1.03 encourages. Passing, running actual plays like walking the circles, running proper breakouts instead of the snooze fest which the hail mary hot dog crowd embraces so tightly. ya know...
Hockey.
We know its a game..but its 2019....cars are practically driving themselves..a little more realism in gameplay, especially because it was a tuner, isn't too much to ask.
Again...make the game for the hockey players, the gamers will always adapt...especially if something like E sports is to be considered. While we're sitting here arguing about details the big picture should always be the integrity of the game. The more sturdy that foundation is the better the game will do year over year.
Removing tripping penalties on the release from DSS allows you to have full control over disrupting a play with proper positioning and I love it.
I sometimes feel that puck interactions on the defensive side of DSS are increased on the release from DSS than when you are holding DSS in a position.
That could just be me and how I’ve intepretted it - a fault in my own DSS positioning - but I definitely seem to disrupt plays far more when I initialize DSS and purposefully release it while approaching a puck carrier to have the most disruption.
This typically results in my stock disrupting a quick pass made from under pressure, which is great. But I can’t help but feel I don’t get the same disruption when holding and keeping my DSS in a passing lane.
But I think that might just be an adjustment on my part.
https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64192829
Now this is an old clip. The point of the clip isn’t me running out of position, the point of the clip is to show you the fact this player could go all over the ice and couldn’t be hit. I wasn’t late, it wasn’t slow, I just couldn’t hit him.
I’m actually on top of him. He should have felt the hit. Real life hockey he would have felt it. He maybe could have got it back if it were real life. But what doesn’t happen in real life is an invisible bubble that protects the puck carrier from a defenders hit. Watch any puck control video on YouTube or watch any NHL game on TV, they get HIT but still can maintain control of the puck. Even when Crosby is doing his thing in the corner, he still gets hit.
That’s the difference. There’s real life puck control and the bubble in 19. People want puck control, not a bubble.
And every time I bring it up, EA devs doesn't know what I'm talking about. Another great clip.
There are currently no animations while a player is in 'protect puck' that would indicate that the player 'felt' the hit. This is likely why people percieve a 'bubble'.
If EA added a stumble or adjustment animation for when someone takes a hit in protect puck, then maybe this wouldn't look so jarring.
Both were skating the same speed
All I see is you missing a hit then chasing the other player like a chicken with your head cut off. You couldn't hit him because you had no speed or angle on him, you were literally skating at the same speed in the same direction, you have no strength to affect his speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck. This is bad defense rewarded.
Should physicallity be tuned up? Maybe, probably. Should it be tuned to the point where THAT play has a different outcome? Absolutely not.
I think I agree on this. As much as it pains me to say so as a D man, forwards do need their tools and fun as well.
So first you said he had no speed or angle but then at the same him you said he was literally skating at the same speed as the puck carrier. Which one is it? Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me. Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.
I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.
So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:
I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.
Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:
Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':
That won't work until we revert back to beta
I was skating with my “head cut” cut off for a few reasons. One. Each time I thought I was in a good position to poke, it was a trip and an automatic goal. Second. These players didn’t like to move the puck. They skated like this many times. IRRC, they didn’t have ten shots on goal. They would go to the corners to snipe or wait for moments like this. I played a team that just said on the hash marks, waiting for me to go hit them, that not working and sending a pass back door.
https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748743
This is what I’m talking about. He would just sit there and not move till went I after him. I get really good speed, “hit him” and he gets the puck back.
That is a much better example of where hitting should be more effective than it currently is. I see this many many times per game, for both teams.
Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.
LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.
Long story short, this game allows puck carriers to be much more comfortable than they should be.
If you and I are moving at the same speed and I try to shove you in the back the effort will have a much greater effect on me than you. Matching speed and not having speed to execute the move are not mutually exclusive. There was no agility issue on the boards, he missed.
That’s kinda where I was getting to. It’s not just hits you can ignore, when your along the board put your stick in the boards and it’s impossible to poke or stick lift.
Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.
If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.
You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.
And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.