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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


Check out our CHEL notes with our October Patch update here.

An Update on Gameplay Feedback + Action Plan

Replies

  • Ancient hockey proverb:

    1st guy take man.
    2nd guy puck.

    Not swat at man with off balance looking outstretched arm

    Not hug man hoping for reach around ..swat

    And stick work feels like an educated gamble between success and penalty. Sure I’m doing better lately but at the end of the day when I invoke those commands I know that I really don’t know how it’s going to work out.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    587 posts Member
    edited January 14
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    If you don’t have trust in your tools, it’s hard to use them when it’s time. Stick lifting and stick lifting need work done to them so they aren’t penalties in good angles. I know hitting isn’t the only defensive option and that’s not where I’m going with this. Where I’m going is the simply fact is this kind of entry into the offensive zone wasn’t a thing in the beta because anybody could knock him off the puck.

    With the massive nerf to stick lift its harder than ever to get a clean stick check off. I know DSS is a good tool that I’m working to get better with, but I shouldn’t be just using DSS when I have the opportunity to hit and just doesn’t work.
  • WainGretSki
    2989 posts Member
    edited January 14
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    587 posts Member
    edited January 14
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    I feel hitting works well when executed properly. If there's literally no gap between me and another player, I may not retrieve the puck, but I'm going to interrupt or make it very difficult for him to pull off what he wants to pull off.

    And why is incidental contact 'sad'? 3 years ago, this community cried and cried for everything on the ice to interact with the play 100% of the time.

    We have something close to that in the form of incidental contact, and now it's 'sad'?

    And if you think DSS is only effective for 'sweeping' - you're missing out on some of the other aspects of DSS that don't involve 'sweeping' at all:

    - Forcing a player to the boards by angling them away - not sweeping
    - Intercepting a pass by placing (not sweeping) your stick in the lane you know they're doing to use.
    - discouraging passes and movement. This is done primarily by NOT sweeping your stick, and making it stay put in places in order to discourage certain plays, forcing your opponent to become a little more creative


    etc, etc
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    I feel hitting works well when executed properly. If there's literally no gap between me and another player, I may not retrieve the puck, but I'm going to interrupt or make it very difficult for him to pull off what he wants to pull off.

    And why is incidental contact 'sad'? 3 years ago, this community cried and cried for everything on the ice to interact with the play 100% of the time.

    We have something close to that in the form of incidental contact, and now it's 'sad'?

    And if you think DSS is only effective for 'sweeping' - you're missing out on some of the other aspects of DSS that don't involve 'sweeping' at all:

    - Forcing a player to the boards by angling them away - not sweeping
    - Intercepting a pass by placing (not sweeping) your stick in the lane you know they're doing to use.
    - discouraging passes and movement. This is done primarily by NOT sweeping your stick, and making it stay put in places in order to discourage certain plays, forcing your opponent to become a little more creative


    etc, etc

    Hitting only works well with relative speed by both players especially when going face-to-face. It's when puck carriers slow down and curl their sticks they know the tuning will favor them shrugging off a check. The risk/reward factor is incredibly tilted to the puck carrier.

    Incidental contact is sad when it is more effective than hitting. I already explained this to you twice in other threads so I feel I do not need to go into details here.

    I know how to angle players to the boards. I know how to contain them. And that is the incredibly boring part. I need to slow a player down, angle him to the boards, force him to turn around while my winger comes streaking in to finish the hit. This is a video game, yet I have to be conservative and set up a player to be hit by a teammate.

    I am saying this for the record, and with all due respect. We will never see eye-to-eye and how this game should be tuned. You think everything is fine for the most part while I simply do not.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    This answer is based solely on what can be done in the game.

    You should have used your DSS pointed to your right to angle him to the boards and force him to either cough up the puck, or turn around to go back to the blue line to buy himself time and space. This time allows your team to regroup defensively, come back into the zone and support you. Another option would be to pinch him off at the boards and board-pin him. Either situation would be purely to buy time for a teammate to come in and held defend.

    You have to be more passive and practice more containment to have more success. The best places to be aggressive on D is just when the player receives a pass. With proper gap, you can smash him as he receives the puck. When a player is further away and coming towards you, you have to be much less aggressive and try and direct him towards the boards and never give up the middle lane. It is not glorious in any way, but this practice yields more success provided you have teammates you can rely on.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.
  • I know how to angle players to the boards. I know how to contain them. And that is the incredibly boring part.

    I don't feel it's fair that the element of the game you find 'boring' is an element of the game you feel is under powered.

    Frankly - many people have mastered tools on defense. I'm don't think i'm a 'master' - but there's nothing about defense that's boring. I'm constantly on my toes defending the same goals everyone tries all the time. It's tough work and you gotta be quick.

    The risk/reward factor is incredibly tilted to the puck carrier.

    If one team is executing mediocre defense, then yes.


  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    Hmm, it is possible that the DSS is slightly slow, but it isn't a sword either. For the most part, I am fine with its speed. Personally I use it more as a way to force a carrier to curl his stick away and I leave my stick in his stick's path if he decides to uncurl. If he does that, he will lose the puck. If he doesn't uncurl, he can't accelerate and eventually a teammate will come in and destroy him most times.

    You gotta see it more as a passive tool than an aggressive one. It is more a tool (in the game) that limits a player's options vs a tool for stripping a puck away. Sometimes I will use it to block passing lanes, but it is a little less reliable in that situation than I would like it to be, but still satisfactory.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    Agreed. Definitely should have been a good stick lift.

  • You gotta see it more as a passive tool than an aggressive one. It is more a tool (in the game) that limits a player's options vs a tool for stripping a puck away. Sometimes I will use it to block passing lanes, but it is a little less reliable in that situation than I would like it to be, but still satisfactory.

    We found something we agree on!
  • WainGretSki
    2989 posts Member
    edited January 14

    You gotta see it more as a passive tool than an aggressive one. It is more a tool (in the game) that limits a player's options vs a tool for stripping a puck away. Sometimes I will use it to block passing lanes, but it is a little less reliable in that situation than I would like it to be, but still satisfactory.

    We found something we agree on!

    Hehe, bound to happen sooner or later lol.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    Hmm, it is possible that the DSS is slightly slow, but it isn't a sword either. For the most part, I am fine with its speed. Personally I use it more as a way to force a carrier to curl his stick away and I leave my stick in his stick's path if he decides to uncurl. If he does that, he will lose the puck. If he doesn't uncurl, he can't accelerate and eventually a teammate will come in and destroy him most times.

    You gotta see it more as a passive tool than an aggressive one. It is more a tool (in the game) that limits a player's options vs a tool for stripping a puck away. Sometimes I will use it to block passing lanes, but it is a little less reliable in that situation than I would like it to be, but still satisfactory.

    Depends on the sword. Anyway, it might be connection related. Some games it can be fast, others not so much.

    Like I said I’m working to get better with it anytime I play. I have used it effectively at points.
  • jiajji
    329 posts Member
    edited January 14
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    I think it works great, it's particularly a good weapon for forcing people to the boards at the blue line, if they don't react the way you want then there is a chance you sweep the puck away. Of course you're in a tough situation 1 on 1, in that case the carrier has the advantage but it's still fairly predictable in what he's going to try to do. What you did was back off to the puck carrier's backhand side before you attempted to close to his forehand offering him a position of greater strength than he originally had. What I'd do in that situation is opposite, I want the puck carrier to go backhand if possible, particularly because he's got less ice to work with while he's entering the zone, work dss so that you can close the gap because that will limit his options, then if you can get a hit on the boards great otherwise you want to time your hit as he makes his move toward a scoring chance. That will give you 3 chances to win; 1) as he enters the zone, 2) incidental contact/check/sticklift on the boards, 3) a hit as he makes his move to the net.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    I think it works great, it's particularly a good weapon for forcing people to the boards at the blue line, if they don't react the way you want then there is a chance you sweep the puck away. Of course you're in a tough situation 1 on 1, in that case the carrier has the advantage but it's still fairly predictable in what he's going to try to do. What you did was back off to the puck carrier's backhand side before you attempted to close. What I'd do in that situation is opposite, I want the puck carrier to go backhand if possible, particularly because he's got less ice to work with while he's entering the zone, work dss so that you can close the gap because that will limit his options, then if you can get a hit on the boards great otherwise you want to time your hit as he makes his move toward a scoring chance. That will give you 3 chances to win; 1) as he enters the zone, 2) incidental contact/check/sticklift on the boards, 3) a hit as he makes his move to the net.

    I think once I start getting better with it I’ll start using it in a lot more opportunities.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    I think it works great, it's particularly a good weapon for forcing people to the boards at the blue line, if they don't react the way you want then there is a chance you sweep the puck away. Of course you're in a tough situation 1 on 1, in that case the carrier has the advantage but it's still fairly predictable in what he's going to try to do. What you did was back off to the puck carrier's backhand side before you attempted to close. What I'd do in that situation is opposite, I want the puck carrier to go backhand if possible, particularly because he's got less ice to work with while he's entering the zone, work dss so that you can close the gap because that will limit his options, then if you can get a hit on the boards great otherwise you want to time your hit as he makes his move toward a scoring chance. That will give you 3 chances to win; 1) as he enters the zone, 2) incidental contact/check/sticklift on the boards, 3) a hit as he makes his move to the net.

    I think once I start getting better with it I’ll start using it in a lot more opportunities.

    I think you'll find that as one tool improves it'll bring along others for you as well. Often times on a 1v1 if you control the puck carrier's direction then you can get him to skate into you with speed as he makes his move to the slot and then it's just an "up" with the Rstick. It's effective enough that I can often pull it off with an ofd.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    I think it works great, it's particularly a good weapon for forcing people to the boards at the blue line, if they don't react the way you want then there is a chance you sweep the puck away. Of course you're in a tough situation 1 on 1, in that case the carrier has the advantage but it's still fairly predictable in what he's going to try to do. What you did was back off to the puck carrier's backhand side before you attempted to close. What I'd do in that situation is opposite, I want the puck carrier to go backhand if possible, particularly because he's got less ice to work with while he's entering the zone, work dss so that you can close the gap because that will limit his options, then if you can get a hit on the boards great otherwise you want to time your hit as he makes his move toward a scoring chance. That will give you 3 chances to win; 1) as he enters the zone, 2) incidental contact/check/sticklift on the boards, 3) a hit as he makes his move to the net.

    I think once I start getting better with it I’ll start using it in a lot more opportunities.

    I think you'll find that as one tool improves it'll bring along others for you as well. Often times on a 1v1 if you control the puck carrier's direction then you can get him to skate into you with speed as he makes his move to the slot and then it's just an "up" with the Rstick. It's effective enough that I can often pull it off with an ofd.

    pretty sound advice right here.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Also, is your logic that if you're matching the puck carriers speed that a hit shouldnt have any impact on their speed, momentum or ability to retain the puck? Pretty poor logic if you ask me.

    I think when two players match speed, the 'strength' and 'hitting' attributes play a bigger role in determining if a player can knock another off of the puck. I could be wrong about this - but it's something to take in to consideration when watching clips like that.


    Another thought - when the D man goes to angle the puck carrier off at the boards does the puck carrier have more agility than the D man, while handling the puck, to stop and turn back up ice to eventually make it to the slot? Watching this clip makes me cringe at the type of behavior this game rewards.

    So the D-Man over-committed and ran in to the boards, but so did the puck carrying winger:

    LZyw3eJ.png


    I'd like to see the winger lose the puck when crashing in to the boards like that for sure.

    Also, during this sequence, the LW should've used DSS at this frame, and used RS to a position so that R3 could be used without a trip:

    ST9Xrkk.png

    Same here - LD steps up to help out LW, but neither uses DSS to get a good whack at the puck. Instead, it seems the user spammed body check, hoping for a 'nudge':

    knFEpEB.png


    That won't work until we revert back to beta :pensive:

    Hitting is an important tool on defense. That dude was gliding every time into the zone like that. You couldn’t get into the zone like that in the beta. Each year that was the way to go but for once it was differennt and many liked it. Next thing you know they changed it and it become like other years again.

    LW doesn’t trust stick checking in this game and quite frankly, neither do I. By using you’re comment and how you always talking about defense needing to things differently, it’s funny because of how defense has to do this and do that but offense doesn’t need to be be trying anything. You can just glide and you'll be fine.

    Yes, hitting is an important tool - but it's not the only tool.

    If I had a teammate who didn't 'trust' poking - I'd tell him he needs to get a little better at utilizing it.

    You can absolutely be a force on defense using DSS and Pokechecking while taking minimal penalties. It takes practice on timing and patience.

    And if people are just 'gliding' in to the zone like that on you all the time, there's work to be done defending the rush.

    When it comes to real life hockey, you are 100% correct. Hitting is not the only tool.

    But, in this game, when there is no gap between players, and stick lifts are practically a penalty button, what tool is the better option? Sadly, incidental contact. But what can you do when behind a player with a bit of angle? Sure, DSS can be used in a sweeping manner, but it isn't a very fast tool in those types of situations. That is where alot of D men feel the game lacks the most.

    This game actually allows alot of players to bully their way around while maintaining puck possession. Not very realistic.

    Here’s another guy gliding into the zone.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/66748506

    What am I supposed to do here? My first stick lift didn’t work and when I went behind him to stick lift his stick in his the boards so when I tried it’s a penalty. Couldn’t hit the guy because he was gliding and DSS wouldn’t have worked there. So what i am supposed to do?

    THIS is a good vid, thanks for sharing it.

    IMO there is no reason that sticklift shouldn't have worked and it's a good example of something that should be corrected. In that situation I disagree about dss, I think a sweep would have taken the puck from him no problem but I don't think that's your main point.

    I think DSS moves a little slow and when I see people use it, I blow right by them and vice versa. It’s kinda my point that stick lifts aren’t good at all even when I’m in good position. We should be able to use all the tools we have, not just one all the time.

    Hmm, it is possible that the DSS is slightly slow, but it isn't a sword either. For the most part, I am fine with its speed. Personally I use it more as a way to force a carrier to curl his stick away and I leave my stick in his stick's path if he decides to uncurl. If he does that, he will lose the puck. If he doesn't uncurl, he can't accelerate and eventually a teammate will come in and destroy him most times.

    You gotta see it more as a passive tool than an aggressive one. It is more a tool (in the game) that limits a player's options vs a tool for stripping a puck away. Sometimes I will use it to block passing lanes, but it is a little less reliable in that situation than I would like it to be, but still satisfactory.

    So you feel a "less reliable", "passive", "slightly slow" tool is fair or even realistic and not more of a handicap and yet another advantage given to forwards? Does it make sense a defenseman's skating is interrupted when performing these actions and that you must always be in a controlled/gliding state to be effective? On top of that, you have more agility with the puck than without.

    I do not. Especially considering how a forward can complete all button actions at a high rate of uncontrolled speed and be hindered or punished on a miniscule scale. It just goes to show how unbalanced the mechanics are.

    You shouldn't be satisfied with only being given subpar abilities. I don't feel I should be forced to play a certain way because of mechanics. I should be able to play defense the proper way it's meant to be played. Poke check is the #1 and most valuable defensive measure for a player at any ice hockey level of competition. You poke to strip the puck, not to dislodge it and have the offense quickly retreive it. I shouldn't have to contain an opponent and rely on my teammates to bail me out because of mechanics either. I should have the ability to defend 1 on 1 and to be rewarded for good plays.

    EASHL feels like AHL defensemen playing vs 2nd line NHL forwards.
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