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BETA TUNER DETAILS + FEEDBACK THREAD

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  • I really wish EA would have rolled back the skating changes from patches. It still doesn't feel as good as it was in the beta and that was the best part of it.

    I'm guessing things like
    "- Various skater animation fixes
    - Changes made to pivot speed to make it more affected by player rating
    - Various skating transition fixes"
    from the patches are making it feel worse.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes. But if there was any tuning done in a patch, it was reverted. Just not the bug fixes.

    It wasn't just bug fixes that were added in the patches. Pivoting was changed. AI behavior was changed. Poke checking was made easier. I don't think those were bad changes, necessarily. But what we're playing now is definitely not the same game that debuted in the Beta.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes. But if there was any tuning done in a patch, it was reverted. Just not the bug fixes.

    It wasn't just bug fixes that were added in the patches. Pivoting was changed. AI behavior was changed. Poke checking was made easier. I don't think those were bad changes, necessarily. But what we're playing now is definitely not the same game that debuted in the Beta.

    Yeah I've noticed some differences too, they should revert patch to beta along with the tuner for more accurate testing.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    It specifically says tuner will be rolled back to the August 2nd version. Therefore, no fixes after that date should be in the game. So we are not getting what is advertised, yet the survey will ask how we like the beta tuner second time around....

    The point, from what I gathered, was to see how the game plays before any fixes/tunings were done. Dropped sticks were to return, supposedly insane amounts of trips from poking, etc...

    Sigh.

    I'm sorry you feel you were misled there. There's always been a distinct difference between a patch and a tuner though; they aren't one in the same. Hopefully you still get some benefit out of the testing being done this week.


    There's no question this was incredibly misleading. 99% of users don't understand that reverting a tuner doesn't mean reverting all the patches that have happened since that tuner was introduced. Again, maybe it'll make for a different game, but it's absurd that EA wasn't clear about what was happening.

    "We're changing the tuner - sliders and settings - back to the Beta. But all patches since the beta - including bug fixes, and changes to pivoting, VC, and AI behavior - will still be in place."

    There - that's how easy it would have been to be honest.

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    I really wish EA would have rolled back the skating changes from patches. It still doesn't feel as good as it was in the beta and that was the best part of it.

    I'm guessing things like
    "- Various skater animation fixes
    - Changes made to pivot speed to make it more affected by player rating
    - Various skating transition fixes"
    from the patches are making it feel worse.
    Could be a few things as there is a lot of perception that changes over time too. To address your callouts specifically...

    - The changes to pivot speed by player rating was added in the patch as new code but we actually did revert it's impact as part of this rollback to ensure it didn't have an impact.

    - The animation fixes are things such as making sure the puck doesn't warp from a stick when blending or a stick or skate going through the ice, etc.

    - The various transition fixes were also animation fixes that wouldn't impact the skate model. Mostly for blends and visual fidelity.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    I really wish EA would have rolled back the skating changes from patches. It still doesn't feel as good as it was in the beta and that was the best part of it.

    I'm guessing things like
    "- Various skater animation fixes
    - Changes made to pivot speed to make it more affected by player rating
    - Various skating transition fixes"
    from the patches are making it feel worse.
    Could be a few things as there is a lot of perception that changes over time too. To address your callouts specifically...

    - The changes to pivot speed by player rating was added in the patch as new code but we actually did revert it's impact as part of this rollback to ensure it didn't have an impact.

    - The animation fixes are things such as making sure the puck doesn't warp from a stick when blending or a stick or skate going through the ice, etc.

    - The various transition fixes were also animation fixes that wouldn't impact the skate model. Mostly for blends and visual fidelity.

    I have a question I just loaded up the game and played a drop it. I have noticed this before when I have first entered the DR.: "Updating Player Class Tuning". Can you explain the different between player class tuning and the general tuners?
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    - The changes to pivot speed by player rating was added in the patch as new code but we actually did revert it's impact as part of this rollback to ensure it didn't have an impact.

    How do you revert part of a patch without making a client-side update?

  • To be honest, I was expecting an exact copy/paste of the beta. That was the whole point and discussion. To see if we remember things as they were and if our perception has changed. Didn't appear to have anything misleading in the least. If you want my exact perception of what was 5 months ago, then I need those exact same settings and environment. There was never any mention that we would get the beta but with fixes to it. It was implied, reverting to the beta. Revert means to remove anything that was changed and to go back to what once was.

    Now I guarantee people will not feel like this is/was the beta. Our perception will change without a doubt as the conditions are not the same. I find it incredibly misleading and in all honesty, very disappointed to say the least. This seems like a half step in a massive process. Why??? Why not have the exact same settings to see if we feel the same?? Illogical.

    Sorry to sound like a wet blanket. I was incredibly pumped and now I am just infuriated and feel like I was lied to or mislead. Inconclusive experiment and I am calling it right here, right now.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    - The changes to pivot speed by player rating was added in the patch as new code but we actually did revert it's impact as part of this rollback to ensure it didn't have an impact.

    How do you revert part of a patch without making a client-side update?

    Alot of times when patches come out there is a client-side patch and a server-side patch. With this revert back to the beta tuner they could have deployed a server-side patch that tells the game to ignore certain lines of code.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes.

    I thought we were getting a "pure" beta rollback? The point was to go back to the version prior to any "fixes". What gives???
    As a result, in mid-January we are going to be rolling back to the Beta Tuner for a limited time to get your feedback on what you like/dislike about the Beta Tuner compared to the current gameplay tuner

    A lot of the 'fixes' in the patches were for the better. Like:

    Fixed cases where poke checks were tripping a player after getting puck first

    Fixed a case where players were not being tripped after consecutive pokes

    Made improvements to collision detection where sometimes a stick was still able to cause incidental contact with the puck carriers stick or the puck when passing through player geo first.



    Anyways, it's all in the thread if you'd like to dig through it - https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/228646/nhl-19-update-notes#latest

    No I understand some fixes were for the better and whatnot. However, from what I gathered, it was a literal return to day one tuning. Now we have bits and fixes from different tunings.... This seems like that tuner Ben was talking about, which would have probably been dubbed 1.05 had it been released.

    Again, we are led to believe we will get the beta, and it isn't exactly the beta.....Why can't it be plain and simple, black on white?

    I don't see where it was said they would be rolling back the patches as well. And everyones been asking for the beta tuners. But regardless I think if we rolled the patch fixes back we'd be taking an unnecessary step backwards with things that have already been fixed. We'd be getting feedback like 'poke checks are too op' and this and that, when infact it's already been fixed. I suppose this way it helps the feedback be more clear on the actual tuner and gameplay that we have.

    It specifically says tuner will be rolled back to the August 2nd version. Therefore, no fixes after that date should be in the game. So we are not getting what is advertised, yet the survey will ask how we like the beta tuner second time around....

    The point, from what I gathered, was to see how the game plays before any fixes/tunings were done. Dropped sticks were to return, supposedly insane amounts of trips from poking, etc...

    Sigh.

    I’m sorry to say I think the misunderstanding was on your end. I always took this to mean reverting the tuners but keeping the patches.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes.

    I thought we were getting a "pure" beta rollback? The point was to go back to the version prior to any "fixes". What gives???
    As a result, in mid-January we are going to be rolling back to the Beta Tuner for a limited time to get your feedback on what you like/dislike about the Beta Tuner compared to the current gameplay tuner

    A lot of the 'fixes' in the patches were for the better. Like:

    Fixed cases where poke checks were tripping a player after getting puck first

    Fixed a case where players were not being tripped after consecutive pokes

    Made improvements to collision detection where sometimes a stick was still able to cause incidental contact with the puck carriers stick or the puck when passing through player geo first.



    Anyways, it's all in the thread if you'd like to dig through it - https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/228646/nhl-19-update-notes#latest

    No I understand some fixes were for the better and whatnot. However, from what I gathered, it was a literal return to day one tuning. Now we have bits and fixes from different tunings.... This seems like that tuner Ben was talking about, which would have probably been dubbed 1.05 had it been released.

    Again, we are led to believe we will get the beta, and it isn't exactly the beta.....Why can't it be plain and simple, black on white?

    I don't see where it was said they would be rolling back the patches as well. And everyones been asking for the beta tuners. But regardless I think if we rolled the patch fixes back we'd be taking an unnecessary step backwards with things that have already been fixed. We'd be getting feedback like 'poke checks are too op' and this and that, when infact it's already been fixed. I suppose this way it helps the feedback be more clear on the actual tuner and gameplay that we have.

    It specifically says tuner will be rolled back to the August 2nd version. Therefore, no fixes after that date should be in the game. So we are not getting what is advertised, yet the survey will ask how we like the beta tuner second time around....

    The point, from what I gathered, was to see how the game plays before any fixes/tunings were done. Dropped sticks were to return, supposedly insane amounts of trips from poking, etc...

    Sigh.

    I’m sorry to say I think the misunderstanding was on your end. I always took this to mean reverting the tuners but keeping the patches.

    Hmmm. Yea must be on my end. I guess I misunderstood when I was explained we would revert things back to what they were 5 months ago and see if our memory is as good as we think, or if it was indeed a "skill gap" explosion.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes. But if there was any tuning done in a patch, it was reverted. Just not the bug fixes.

    It wasn't just bug fixes that were added in the patches. Pivoting was changed. AI behavior was changed. Poke checking was made easier. I don't think those were bad changes, necessarily. But what we're playing now is definitely not the same game that debuted in the Beta.

    And there you have it. Seems logical to feel that as the parameters are different from the Beta.
    Post edited by WainGretSki on
  • I’m sorry to say I think the misunderstanding was on your end. I always took this to mean reverting the tuners but keeping the patches.

    You were pretty unusual, then. Go back and read the other thread about the Beta - everyone involved, including KidShowtime, was operating on the assumption that this would be the gameplay we had during the Beta.

  • Fatigue is off. I forgot how all you need is 3 lines. Also they have to tune the stick breaking back out. It's still got most of the same shots, but feels more diverse. Both offensively and defense. Also I love the rate of penalty calls. Gross hooks from behind are penalties. But you can do good work, assuming you can.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    I’m sorry to say I think the misunderstanding was on your end. I always took this to mean reverting the tuners but keeping the patches.

    You were pretty unusual, then. Go back and read the other thread about the Beta - everyone involved, including KidShowtime, was operating on the assumption that this would be the gameplay we had during the Beta.

    Yup. And not 1 single EA employee interjected with any replies. Nothing cleared up or explained. No one mentioned we were on the wrong track, etc.

    It was misleading, period.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Is it true that even though they've reverted the tuner to the Beta, they have not reverted any of the patches (which included gameplay changes)? In other words, are we playing the Beta tuner, but with Patches 1.1-1.4?

    Yes. So some of the fixes that were done in patches through code are still here, like the old backhand weird blend shot people were doing. We have the patchnotes thread still up with all the changes.

    I thought we were getting a "pure" beta rollback? The point was to go back to the version prior to any "fixes". What gives???
    As a result, in mid-January we are going to be rolling back to the Beta Tuner for a limited time to get your feedback on what you like/dislike about the Beta Tuner compared to the current gameplay tuner

    A lot of the 'fixes' in the patches were for the better. Like:

    Fixed cases where poke checks were tripping a player after getting puck first

    Fixed a case where players were not being tripped after consecutive pokes

    Made improvements to collision detection where sometimes a stick was still able to cause incidental contact with the puck carriers stick or the puck when passing through player geo first.



    Anyways, it's all in the thread if you'd like to dig through it - https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/228646/nhl-19-update-notes#latest

    No I understand some fixes were for the better and whatnot. However, from what I gathered, it was a literal return to day one tuning. Now we have bits and fixes from different tunings.... This seems like that tuner Ben was talking about, which would have probably been dubbed 1.05 had it been released.

    Again, we are led to believe we will get the beta, and it isn't exactly the beta.....Why can't it be plain and simple, black on white?

    I don't see where it was said they would be rolling back the patches as well. And everyones been asking for the beta tuners. But regardless I think if we rolled the patch fixes back we'd be taking an unnecessary step backwards with things that have already been fixed. We'd be getting feedback like 'poke checks are too op' and this and that, when infact it's already been fixed. I suppose this way it helps the feedback be more clear on the actual tuner and gameplay that we have.

    It specifically says tuner will be rolled back to the August 2nd version. Therefore, no fixes after that date should be in the game. So we are not getting what is advertised, yet the survey will ask how we like the beta tuner second time around....

    The point, from what I gathered, was to see how the game plays before any fixes/tunings were done. Dropped sticks were to return, supposedly insane amounts of trips from poking, etc...

    Sigh.

    I’m sorry to say I think the misunderstanding was on your end. I always took this to mean reverting the tuners but keeping the patches.

    Hmmm. Yea must be on my end. I guess I misunderstood when I was explained we would revert things back to what they were 5 months ago and see if our memory is as good as we think, or if it was indeed a "skill gap" explosion.

    No I agree. I went back and watched some videos I have set to private on you tube(cant share them because I don't have permission from all parties involved to share) from when the game first came out. While it feels like a tighter game it still feels like some patch code needs to be reverted also.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • EA_Roger wrote: »

    What is misleading here? The fact Tyler specifies people wanted the full beta tuner back? I guess that must be it.
  • langowski39
    71 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    EA_Roger wrote: »

    What is misleading here? The fact Tyler specifies people wanted the full beta tuner back? I guess that must be it.

    I understand where your coming I truly do especially after working as a beta tester for some indie pc games, but there always has been a difference between a tuner, and a patch. When a friend of mine told me about them reverting back to the beta tuner I said they better be offering us a separate download to download the beta build, otherwise they would need to revert the patches back to get accurate data. In my circle of friends I have long held since maybe two patches ago they need to fix the tuner to adjust for the changes in the patch instead of just saying heres tuner 1.03 and then a week or so later here are the patch notes for patch 1.04. I firmly believe part of the problem lies with patch(es) and the turners not being updated to coincide with the patch.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • Color me confused as well. I was under the impression that the roll back would be the same as what was given on day 1 beta. Guess I gotta work on my reading comp. Not sure how this will silence the folks in regards to the beta being superior.
  • Nuckles37 wrote: »
    I really wish EA would have rolled back the skating changes from patches. It still doesn't feel as good as it was in the beta and that was the best part of it.

    I'm guessing things like
    "- Various skater animation fixes
    - Changes made to pivot speed to make it more affected by player rating
    - Various skating transition fixes"
    from the patches are making it feel worse.

    I feel ya. To me, the skating just isn’t the same. Not as fast or explosive. The gameplay is better though. I can hit and goalies can make saves.

    This might sound wild. But if EA didn’t want to release a client patch to undue the things they fixed, I think we should have used the beta download from the summer. They could turn the servers on for that and not worrying about releasing a patch. I guess there’s a reason they didn’t do this.
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