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Gameplay Updates Based on Beta Tuner Rollback Feedback

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  • The good news is that at least it wasn't released and then had to be reverted.

    Probably for the best that it's done right the first time!

    Yes that is correct Captain Obvious :D

  • The good news is that at least it wasn't released and then had to be reverted.

    Probably for the best that it's done right the first time!

    Still waiting on that DRE fix..............
  • BlahQGhozT
    136 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    1. He gets into the slot backskating and has a chance for a one timer. As explained about million times before, even if there's no shot, it can still be a scoring chance. Just like there can be a shot on net, but it's not a scoring chance.

    The puck carrier did not enter the slot.

    x7vUe2Y.pngLtrNI1x.png



    Even if you thought the 'slot' encompasses the faceoff circles, he's still out of range to be considered in the 'slot' and thus, no scoring chance. Especially considering the skater is skating backwards - how can you argue a player facing the opposite direction of the goal is still considered a scoring chance?


    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    2. Watch the AI veer away from #17 and almost allow a one timer goal. The main threat in that situation was the possible pass, not the skater coming in **** cheeks first. His opponent did go the wrong way at first, but he recovered and got back into position. If Nuge hadn't botched his pass, that was probably going behind the goalie.

    The ai covering #17 correctly anticipates (despite the carrier skating backwards) that the puck carrier was going for that top shelf cheese.

    X3Dlni9.png


    Why are you ignoring this fact (something people beg the A.I. to do ) and rather try to make the narrative about how the A.I. covering #17 "veered away" from a potential scorer? In fact, this video is good evidence that the A.I. is correctly anticipating shots - changing those decisions and deciding to block the pass instead.

    oNyjUDg.png


    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    3. Nuge isn't as bad as some other streamers. I've seen some great passing from him and most games he'll actually try to work for his goals. So when he tries things like in that clip, it tends to stick out a little more than from a streamer like say... Realmiviens, who's known for going for dat stinky cheese every chance he gets.

    Regardless - your claim that this clip demonstrates that EA's NHL game isn't 'hockey' is absurd and a misconception of what you're seeing happen on-screen.

    I understand what Kidshowtime is trying to say but he's just arguing semantics at this point. Technically what he says is correct but the overall premise is wrong. From the clip of the player skating backwards there's nothing 'hockey' about that. IRL it can be done yes but to no where near that level of control with those cuts he's making as full speed no less. Although he doesn't manage to turn the right way around to become a shooting threat in the clip the potential to do so is obvious. This probably would have been a goal if pass instead of going to 17 went to 66 (trailer going to the slot) instead.

    The abuse of the L2 / LT to this level should be punished in some way. It is utterly unrealistic in every way. Awhile back I saw a post of "The greatest vs game ever" or something like that with a Finnish guy against a Swede....watching that garbage was mind numbing to say the least. Why is this even a thing? People acting like this is an actual skill are hilarious.

    Post edited by BlahQGhozT on
    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD6 - PS4
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited January 2019
    Socair wrote: »
    well, it looks like i won my last online game.

    AI skaters will not perform defensive actions against active puck carriers

    then why have them??

    i thought Ice Hockey was a team game....
    This was introduced at launch to deter “skill zoning”. It’s not new for this tuner.

    then maybe i miss understood. i admit to not seeing all the diffrences others post about.

    i can still expect AI Buffy and Burns to blow guys up coming into the zone?

    how about blocking shots and poke checks?

    i've been getting real good D from my AI teammates and would hate to lose it going forward. i had to play online last night and on the same PK my AI provided 2 breakaways when my opponent tried to carry into the zone, i couldn't convert but i had the chances.

    Don't know if you are talking about passive AI, but far as I remember that was not in the launch version. Wasn't that patched in 1.02?

    yeah, i'm not going to know enough about the tech/terms to help explain it. i didn't take the survey since most terms were over my head. same with trying to complete that tech issues form when i didn't get credit for my online seasons wins over the holidays. no biggie....

    i play like the 90s Devils, lots of traping and collapsing. i try not to over switch my players and stay on the same guy until there's a turnover or break to jump on.

    since i never noticed any difference from tuner to tuner i doubt i notice any changes here. i'm a HUT player almost exclusively and try not to go online unless it's required.

    The ai hasn't performed defensive actions against puck carriers in online modes all year. The only difference is if they were able to perform an action inside the first 2-4 frames of possession which was done to help them continue to break up a pass. Where that caused issues was on incidental puck loss, they could then perform those actions inside those first couple frames of possession when the puck was picked back up and people saw the ai jar the puck loose due to incidental contact (which was the puck carriers own fault) but then go on to stick lift and get the puck back even more aggressively the second time.

    So that got tuned out completely in the later tuners and was brought back when we rolled back. And now, in the next tuner, once it goes live, it will get tuned back out. I know that can be confusing but hope it makes sense... but ai players will still play off puck as well as they were during the roll back and will pressure to the level positioning wise that you saw in the roll back as the only change switched was the frames after possession to perform defensive actions and the fact that from that, they will also not take penalties.
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    1. He gets into the slot backskating and has a chance for a one timer. As explained about million times before, even if there's no shot, it can still be a scoring chance. Just like there can be a shot on net, but it's not a scoring chance.

    The puck carrier did not enter the slot.

    x7vUe2Y.pngLtrNI1x.png



    Even if you thought the 'slot' encompasses the faceoff circles, he's still out of range to be considered in the 'slot' and thus, no scoring chance. Especially considering the skater is skating backwards - how can you argue a player facing the opposite direction of the goal is still considered a scoring chance?


    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    2. Watch the AI veer away from #17 and almost allow a one timer goal. The main threat in that situation was the possible pass, not the skater coming in **** cheeks first. His opponent did go the wrong way at first, but he recovered and got back into position. If Nuge hadn't botched his pass, that was probably going behind the goalie.

    The ai covering #17 correctly anticipates (despite the carrier skating backwards) that the puck carrier was going for that top shelf cheese.

    X3Dlni9.png


    Why are you ignoring this fact (something people beg the A.I. to do ) and rather try to make the narrative about how the A.I. covering #17 "veered away" from a potential scorer? In fact, this video is good evidence that the A.I. is correctly anticipating shots - changing those decisions and deciding to block the pass instead.

    oNyjUDg.png


    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    3. Nuge isn't as bad as some other streamers. I've seen some great passing from him and most games he'll actually try to work for his goals. So when he tries things like in that clip, it tends to stick out a little more than from a streamer like say... Realmiviens, who's known for going for dat stinky cheese every chance he gets.

    Regardless - your claim that this clip demonstrates that EA's NHL game isn't 'hockey' is absurd and a misconception of what you're seeing happen on-screen.



    The abuse of the L2 / LT to this level should be punished in some way. It is utterly unrealistic in every way. while back I saw a post of "The greatest vs game ever" or something like that with the Finnish guy against a Swede....watching that garbage was mind numbing to say the least. Why is this even a thing? People acting like this is an actual skill are hilarious.

    Agreed.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Nah it's so much more skillfull to come into the zone backskating, swing left-right a bunch of times and allow a scoring chance from the slot because the AI did nothing.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulColdbloodedCobblerPermaSmug

    So much for promoting "team based hockey". :/

    1. Please indicate where the scoring chance was in this clip.
    2. Please indicate how, in this clip, the A.I. "did nothing" despite intercepting the errant pass and nullifying any scoring chance whatsoever.

    7HBoGRP.gif

    Also - what about this clip isn't 'hockey'?

    A guy skating backwards through the neutral zone and in to zone entry isn't normal - sure - but there's nothing in this clip that is being done outside the realm of what can be done in the real-world sport.

    It's a lame tactic to draw a penalty - sure - but there's nothing 'not hockey' about this clip other than a decision to skate backwards which any player can do whenever they want.

    Looks like a great AAA squirt team..

    Those were fun years. The game certainly changes once you start checking though..
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Good job EA! New tuner sounds very promising.
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind
    JohnBrix07 wrote: »
    Please fix the bumps. Never have bumps in any other nhl..dont nerve it just throw them out. Thank you.
    I couldn't disagree more. If you haven't seen any "bumbs" in real hockey it makes me doubt you've ever actually seen a hockey game.

    Well said sir well said!
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    I'm waiting for yours and @Kriptical476 to comment but after playing a few drops here one man shows feel viable again at-least in EASHL play.
    The tuner didn't go live. There will always be User skill gaps and that is why it is tough when we draw a line in the sand with a new tuner. People often assume any behavior they say is due to the new tuner.

    In this case, you are just experiencing variance in gameplay on the same tuner.
  • And of course game speed is still terrible and overlooked as always because you gotta give bad players more time to react.

  • Good job EA! New tuner sounds very promising.
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind
    JohnBrix07 wrote: »
    Please fix the bumps. Never have bumps in any other nhl..dont nerve it just throw them out. Thank you.
    I couldn't disagree more. If you haven't seen any "bumbs" in real hockey it makes me doubt you've ever actually seen a hockey game.

    Everyone here watches or plays hockey in some form why else would they play a hockey video game. In real life there's no continually bumps where a person loses control of all motor functions for 1 full second. You can get bumped while still having the puck, bumped and still pass it or bumped and get a shot off, not bumped and it render your guy helpless. A hit or check or even cross check pushes While still or tie ups in front of the net sure
  • Not happy with the game I have had the last week. I feel it is much hard to control the puck and control the game overall! (passing is off, shot accuracy is inconsistent, one bump in and you turn the puck over, bad bounces) I have been playing this game for many years and have put alot of time and effort into HUT and I can honestly say since the beta this is the worst gameplay i have ever witnessed. I know you guys try hard to cater to everyones feedback but for example I outshot an opponent 27-12 today and had many quality shots and still ended losing 2-1! I hope the game goes to back to how it was before the beta soon enough, thank you.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    And of course game speed is still terrible and overlooked as always because you gotta give bad players more time to react.

    I agree with this. I recently reverted back to tuner 1.00 and thought it was up slow so I bumped up the game speed to 4 out of 6 clicks and that's a happy medium in my mind.

    @NHLDev is this something you'd consider down the road.
  • Nicka629 wrote: »
    Not happy with the game I have had the last week. I feel it is much hard to control the puck and control the game overall! (passing is off, shot accuracy is inconsistent, one bump in and you turn the puck over, bad bounces) I have been playing this game for many years and have put alot of time and effort into HUT and I can honestly say since the beta this is the worst gameplay i have ever witnessed. I know you guys try hard to cater to everyones feedback but for example I outshot an opponent 27-12 today and had many quality shots and still ended losing 2-1! I hope the game goes to back to how it was before the beta soon enough, thank you.

    If will be a combination of both. Assuming it will be live sometime soon. Imo, aside from a few small tweaks being needed, gameplay was mostly good. Didn't really lose any games. And the few I did, it felt like it was my own errors that caused me to lose.

    If you read the first post in this thread, you can read what changes were made.

  • Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    1.00 Beta Tuner/Patch

    - Skating was nice for tuner 1.0
    - Pokes were good for tuner 1.0
    - Hitting great for tuner 1.0
    - Shooting (power/accuracy feels better, especially on one timers great if tuner 1.0
    - Pass interceptions pretty good in tuner 1.0
    - Slick lifts better most recent tuner, too much spamming


    Most Recent Tuner/Patch
    - Broken/dropped sticks better most recent tuner (fixed don't exist)
    - Incidental contact much better most recent tuner, terrible in 1.0 (too many times guys sticks, skates and legs too active when not doing anything just being in the way or turning
    - Passing better most recent tuner
    (too many missed passes, gotta fixed the knocked down auto animation of sacuer pass interceptions
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind



    New Additions
    - Still need game speed and Accel increased
    - Passing speed increased
    - One touches more reactive
    - Shooting power and accuracy in increased
    - Hitting power increased a bit
    - Goalies Glove/Blocker saved lowered when on the other side of the net or when sliding the wrong way
    - Builds overalls increased in ESHL

    All of your “new additions” except maybe ...one.... are in favor of more offense.
    We’re finally getting some balance here.
    No more offensive boosts please.


    How is the game balances right now? The game is heavily in favor of defense.

    Incidental contact, you don't even need to poke, hit or lift to get the puck

    Goalies glove and blocker high are unbelievable when they’re sliding the wrong way or on the far side of the net, only thing I said was they shouldn’t make those saves when they’re not there, besides that they’re perfect, but other side of the net and getting an extended glove or blocker save shouldn’t happen and sliding the wrong way but reaching back across shouldn’t happen either

    Then I said increase hitting, which is a defensive tool and forechecking helper

    Passing helps offense and then defense for breakouts

    Dekeing needs tuned if you don’t think so you’re wild the puck possession out of them plus incidental contact makes them useless, hence why everyone just LT (backskates)

    Shooting should be increase to beat the glove or blocker extended reaches and provide more snopes or scoring areas.

    Now please elaborate how the game is favored towards offense before what I said and/or how it’s at a good balance (especially in EASHL)
    *none of this is in a rude tone, I’m genuienly curious to your response

  • I’m having 5-4, 6-5 etc barn burners. Even went triple OT in one.

    Some grindy games too, but it’s really all in who you get as teammates vs who you’ve matched up against.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • I’m having 5-4, 6-5 etc barn burners. Even went triple OT in one.

    Some grindy games too, but it’s really all in who you get as teammates vs who you’ve matched up against.

    You should check out LeagueGaming.com if you like 6s
  • Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    I’m having 5-4, 6-5 etc barn burners. Even went triple OT in one.

    Some grindy games too, but it’s really all in who you get as teammates vs who you’ve matched up against.

    You should check out LeagueGaming.com if you like 6s

    Thanks, ya. All really depends how these tuners pan out. Stick lifts and checking are big parts of my forechecking. 1.03 sucked the fun out of it..beta rollback brought it back.

    Will say that if things we’re kept more like the beta rollback I’d sign up. Kinda missed a good crew with a more realistic game, although..have to say..I’ve been mostly lucky this week.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • langowski39
    71 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    1.00 Beta Tuner/Patch

    - Skating was nice for tuner 1.0
    - Pokes were good for tuner 1.0
    - Hitting great for tuner 1.0
    - Shooting (power/accuracy feels better, especially on one timers great if tuner 1.0
    - Pass interceptions pretty good in tuner 1.0
    - Slick lifts better most recent tuner, too much spamming


    Most Recent Tuner/Patch
    - Broken/dropped sticks better most recent tuner (fixed don't exist)
    - Incidental contact much better most recent tuner, terrible in 1.0 (too many times guys sticks, skates and legs too active when not doing anything just being in the way or turning
    - Passing better most recent tuner
    (too many missed passes, gotta fixed the knocked down auto animation of sacuer pass interceptions
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind



    New Additions
    - Still need game speed and Accel increased
    - Passing speed increased
    - One touches more reactive
    - Shooting power and accuracy in increased
    - Hitting power increased a bit
    - Goalies Glove/Blocker saved lowered when on the other side of the net or when sliding the wrong way
    - Builds overalls increased in ESHL

    All of your “new additions” except maybe ...one.... are in favor of more offense.
    We’re finally getting some balance here.
    No more offensive boosts please.




    Now please elaborate how the game is favored towards offense before what I said and/or how it’s at a good balance (especially in EASHL)
    *none of this is in a rude tone, I’m genuienly curious to your response

    I'll put it simply like this as a defensemen in EASHL I should never be averaging close to a goal and 2 assist a game like I was pre-rollback. Even when I was younger and still in school I played on top clubs and never was I close to 3 points a game. If anything on 1.03 I felt like I served as a pylon just to slightly annoy the offense.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    1.00 Beta Tuner/Patch

    - Skating was nice for tuner 1.0
    - Pokes were good for tuner 1.0
    - Hitting great for tuner 1.0
    - Shooting (power/accuracy feels better, especially on one timers great if tuner 1.0
    - Pass interceptions pretty good in tuner 1.0
    - Slick lifts better most recent tuner, too much spamming


    Most Recent Tuner/Patch
    - Broken/dropped sticks better most recent tuner (fixed don't exist)
    - Incidental contact much better most recent tuner, terrible in 1.0 (too many times guys sticks, skates and legs too active when not doing anything just being in the way or turning
    - Passing better most recent tuner
    (too many missed passes, gotta fixed the knocked down auto animation of sacuer pass interceptions
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind



    New Additions
    - Still need game speed and Accel increased
    - Passing speed increased
    - One touches more reactive
    - Shooting power and accuracy in increased
    - Hitting power increased a bit
    - Goalies Glove/Blocker saved lowered when on the other side of the net or when sliding the wrong way
    - Builds overalls increased in ESHL

    All of your “new additions” except maybe ...one.... are in favor of more offense.
    We’re finally getting some balance here.
    No more offensive boosts please.




    Now please elaborate how the game is favored towards offense before what I said and/or how it’s at a good balance (especially in EASHL)
    *none of this is in a rude tone, I’m genuienly curious to your response

    I'll put it simply like this as a defensemen in EASHL I should never be averaging close to a goal and 2 assist a game like I was pre-rollback. Even when I was younger and still in school I played on top clubs and never was I close to 3 points a game. If anything on 1.03 I felt like I served as a pylon just to slightly annoy the offense.

    in this game you play all 60 minutes, not the 20-25 a normal defensemen would play so it would be expected to have a higher ppg.
  • Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    Swee9LoU84 wrote: »
    1.00 Beta Tuner/Patch

    - Skating was nice for tuner 1.0
    - Pokes were good for tuner 1.0
    - Hitting great for tuner 1.0
    - Shooting (power/accuracy feels better, especially on one timers great if tuner 1.0
    - Pass interceptions pretty good in tuner 1.0
    - Slick lifts better most recent tuner, too much spamming


    Most Recent Tuner/Patch
    - Broken/dropped sticks better most recent tuner (fixed don't exist)
    - Incidental contact much better most recent tuner, terrible in 1.0 (too many times guys sticks, skates and legs too active when not doing anything just being in the way or turning
    - Passing better most recent tuner
    (too many missed passes, gotta fixed the knocked down auto animation of sacuer pass interceptions
    - Bumps are much better in most recent tuner (bumps have never been in any nhl and don't happen in real life I don't know why they are a thing) but they are at least better in this tuner than the beta where they were unbearable, especially from behind



    New Additions
    - Still need game speed and Accel increased
    - Passing speed increased
    - One touches more reactive
    - Shooting power and accuracy in increased
    - Hitting power increased a bit
    - Goalies Glove/Blocker saved lowered when on the other side of the net or when sliding the wrong way
    - Builds overalls increased in ESHL

    All of your “new additions” except maybe ...one.... are in favor of more offense.
    We’re finally getting some balance here.
    No more offensive boosts please.




    Now please elaborate how the game is favored towards offense before what I said and/or how it’s at a good balance (especially in EASHL)
    *none of this is in a rude tone, I’m genuienly curious to your response

    I'll put it simply like this as a defensemen in EASHL I should never be averaging close to a goal and 2 assist a game like I was pre-rollback. Even when I was younger and still in school I played on top clubs and never was I close to 3 points a game. If anything on 1.03 I felt like I served as a pylon just to slightly annoy the offense.

    in this game you play all 60 minutes, not the 20-25 a normal defensemen would play so it would be expected to have a higher ppg.

    Actually in this game you play 12 minutes. A bit longer depending on penalties. The game is tuned to attempt to mimic real life ppgs.
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