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Something must be done about the ballerina spins, now or in the future

Replies

  • Yes, that last vid is a good example of how a puck carrier can still keep control through sticks, bodies and legs without any puck loss. It seems the new tuner has catered towards a one-man show rather than team utilization. It's always been an offensive style game, because that's what sells. After the latest tuner, it's become even more offensive friendly.
  • I agree...pre roll back....it was sooooooo bad!!!
    Atleast we are heading in the right direction.
  • JOE6V6I6L wrote: »
    Yes, that last vid is a good example of how a puck carrier can still keep control through sticks, bodies and legs without any puck loss. It seems the new tuner has catered towards a one-man show rather than team utilization. It's always been an offensive style game, because that's what sells. After the latest tuner, it's become even more offensive friendly.

    Watch that vid again and watch the indicator. Every time possession is gained and lost you will see it can’t states. He loses the puck many times in that span but everyone is just flying by so he is the only one to pick the puck back up once loose because it keeps going with his momentum.

    If any of those players just stayed goal side they could poke the actual puck or if they kept a good gap lowering their relative speed to the puck and player, they could be there to attempt a pickup on that puck as well.

    I am surprised by the outcome of that hit myself. Regardless if it knocked him over or not, the puck should have been free as it was a hit from the front knocking the player away from the puck.

    I have played a few VS games tonight and I don’t see how hanging on to the puck would ever be a good idea over passing with these settings. Maybe it’s the stacked offensive HUT lines people have without much hitting but high balance and/or people adapting their EASHL builds after learning from last week but the settings are the same so I won’t be sure until I run into it.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    JOE6V6I6L wrote: »
    Yes, that last vid is a good example of how a puck carrier can still keep control through sticks, bodies and legs without any puck loss. It seems the new tuner has catered towards a one-man show rather than team utilization. It's always been an offensive style game, because that's what sells. After the latest tuner, it's become even more offensive friendly.

    Watch that vid again and watch the indicator. Every time possession is gained and lost you will see it can’t states. He loses the puck many times in that span but everyone is just flying by so he is the only one to pick the puck back up once loose because it keeps going with his momentum.

    If any of those players just stayed goal side they could poke the actual puck or if they kept a good gap lowering their relative speed to the puck and player, they could be there to attempt a pickup on that puck as well.

    I am surprised by the outcome of that hit myself. Regardless if it knocked him over or not, the puck should have been free as it was a hit from the front knocking the player away from the puck.

    I have played a few VS games tonight and I don’t see how hanging on to the puck would ever be a good idea over passing with these settings. Maybe it’s the stacked offensive HUT lines people have without much hitting but high balance and/or people adapting their EASHL builds after learning from last week but the settings are the same so I won’t be sure until I run into it.

    I hear ya! Makes sense
  • JOE6V6I6L
    19 posts Member
    edited February 1
    NHLDev wrote: » watch that vid again and watch the indicator. Every time possession is gained and lost you will see it can’t states. He loses the puck many times in that span but everyone is just flying by so he is the only one to pick the puck back up once loose because it keeps going with his momentum.

    If any of those players just stayed goal side they could poke the actual puck or if they kept a good gap lowering their relative speed to the puck and player, they could be there to attempt a pickup on that puck as well.

    I am surprised by the outcome of that hit myself. Regardless if it knocked him over or not, the puck should have been free as it was a hit from the front knocking the player away from the puck.

    I have played a few VS games tonight and I don’t see how hanging on to the puck would ever be a good idea over passing with these settings. Maybe it’s the stacked offensive HUT lines people have without much hitting but high balance and/or people adapting their EASHL builds after learning from last week but the settings are the same so I won’t be sure until I run into it.[/quote]

    I saw the momentary Puck loss you spoke of in the video. The initial hit in the video should have at least jarred the puck loose and made it go forward with the momentum the puck had. It just seems to be a magnet to a player at times, when it clearly should not. It happens just as much in club 6s with even more players on the ice. Maybe it's a "puck friction setting" rather than a puck control issue? But one thing is for sure. People shouldn't keep constant puck control through crowds of stick/leg/body. That video is an example, but I've seen much worse and through more players. I'm sure others have also.
  • KidShowtime1867
    949 posts Member
    edited February 1
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    JOE6V6I6L wrote: »
    It's been worse since last tuner. Hitting at slower speeds seem to just rub against players, rather than result in any collision. Players also seems to folllow the puck, rather than the body you aim for when players are skating backwards or loose puck deking. Maybe thats a "hitting assistance slider" on EA's end? Add that with more puck control through sticks an legs (with the new tuner) and it makes it even harder to defend the ballerina spins. I was against a player on 6v6 club today that was skating backwards (through sticks an legs) over n over from his own blueline to ours and then try for the high blocker wrister that goes in 75% of the time.

    I noticed a lot of far side garbage going in. But I know what you mean about the blocker side. Seems like the goalie gives way too much blocker side now.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/68489585

    That was from today. No screen in front. Complete miss.

    Their RD had a wide open shot with literally zero pressure. I don't see any problem with this goal going in nor is this considered 'garbage'. You left a player open to take a wide open uncontested shot. This was because rather than switching players in the defensive zone in order to apply maximum pressure, you skill-zoned and chased the puck around.

    ZvrIXHv.gif


    Doing this triggers your A.I. to cover up positions being left open - which results in the A.I. leaving certain players open to cover a threat they've calculated as being more of a viable scoring chance.

    A lot of people criticize the A.I. around here but they fail to notice how the A.I. gets particularly bad as the human makes more and more positional errors with the players they choose to control.

    Keep that in mind while playing. The key to getting your A.I. to play for you is : When you decide to take control of a player, be very aware of that player's position and where that position's responsibilities lie in the current setup.

    As soon as you start pulling players out of where they should be, the A.I. goes wonky and the probability of a goal going in shoots way up.

    That clip, I believe, is a perfect example of this.


    For this clip:

    nJxFXoA.gif


    It's hard to tell if you released hit before getting to the puck carrier or whether the hit was misdirected. Without controller visuals it's hard to tell. Whatever is happening here looks bad for sure. That said, during this sequence, you could've negated the play moving forward by simply pinning the player within these frames:

    6JPPh98.png
  • Have to agree that most of the people I see complaining about the A.I. are train wrecks positionally.

    Compy plays better when you do. Personally, I’ve been impressed with the number of breakouts and forechecks compy does quite well with. Often lately in 6’s I’m grateful when people drop because I can st least count on compy to be able to execute a breakout.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Have to agree that most of the people I see complaining about the A.I. are train wrecks positionally.

    Compy plays better when you do. Personally, I’ve been impressed with the number of breakouts and forechecks compy does quite well with. Often lately in 6’s I’m grateful when people drop because I can st least count on compy to be able to execute a breakout.

    Agreed. The AI is extremely positional and one of the main reasons they have success in EASHL. Simply because they are in position.

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

  • When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    587 posts Member
    edited February 1

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.
  • BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.
  • LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.

    It clearly is when someone like me averages 12-14 and plays with high ms like that there is a huge difference.

    The point though is i shouldn’t have played someone from that region midday.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..
  • LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    Let’s summon the Dev

    @NHLDev
  • LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    I remember the dev saying there is no speed boost. Not to argue or anything, but I do remember him saying that.
  • hmm weird then. I have seen people do it, always thought they were just being silly, but I see it a lot more now. Every time I try to do it, my guy does a double axel and loses puck, so I stay away from it lol
  • LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    I remember the dev saying there is no speed boost. Not to argue or anything, but I do remember him saying that.

    Nice to see somebody else remembers that.

    Say in the game clip I posted, does it appear the ballerina gains speed?
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.

    It clearly is when someone like me averages 12-14 and plays with high ms like that there is a huge difference.

    The point though is i shouldn’t have played someone from that region midday.

    48ms is well within the threshold where the user experiences extremely minimal latency.
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