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Something must be done about the ballerina spins, now or in the future

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Replies

  • EpiCxOwNeD
    587 posts Member
    edited February 1
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.

    It clearly is when someone like me averages 12-14 and plays with high ms like that there is a huge difference.

    The point though is i shouldn’t have played someone from that region midday.

    48ms is well within the threshold where the user experiences extremely minimal latency.

    Well I guess we have two different opinions about that because I knew from when the puck was first dropped that something was up about the connection.

    Too bad you can’t leave in the first minute no more. Not talking about getting scored on then leaving so the game don’t count. But in the first minute and the games slow I should be able to leave without a loss or show the network performance during the load screen or something.

  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    I remember the dev saying there is no speed boost. Not to argue or anything, but I do remember him saying that.

    Nice to see somebody else remembers that.

    Say in the game clip I posted, does it appear the ballerina gains speed?

    @EpiCxOwNeD - It does appear so.
  • LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    I remember the dev saying there is no speed boost. Not to argue or anything, but I do remember him saying that.

    Nice to see somebody else remembers that.

    Say in the game clip I posted, does it appear the ballerina gains speed?

    @EpiCxOwNeD - It does appear so.

    I’m only asking people because me and @WainGretSki clearly remember being told it doesn’t increase speed so I thought just asking around if you guys think so.
  • Seeing this more and more in HUT. People like that Sleeveless guy in the video only care about winning, that's it, he says so in the video himself. With that being said, people like him are going to exploit any little thing in the game and make a video about it, which means more clicks, which means more money coming his way, which means struggling players see the top players of the game are doing it so why shouldn't I?
  • TheMajjam
    408 posts Member
    edited February 1
    NHLDev wrote: »
    JOE6V6I6L wrote: »
    Yes, that last vid is a good example of how a puck carrier can still keep control through sticks, bodies and legs without any puck loss. It seems the new tuner has catered towards a one-man show rather than team utilization. It's always been an offensive style game, because that's what sells. After the latest tuner, it's become even more offensive friendly.

    Watch that vid again and watch the indicator. Every time possession is gained and lost you will see it can’t states. He loses the puck many times in that span but everyone is just flying by so he is the only one to pick the puck back up once loose because it keeps going with his momentum.

    If any of those players just stayed goal side they could poke the actual puck or if they kept a good gap lowering their relative speed to the puck and player, they could be there to attempt a pickup on that puck as well.

    I am surprised by the outcome of that hit myself. Regardless if it knocked him over or not, the puck should have been free as it was a hit from the front knocking the player away from the puck.

    I have played a few VS games tonight and I don’t see how hanging on to the puck would ever be a good idea over passing with these settings. Maybe it’s the stacked offensive HUT lines people have without much hitting but high balance and/or people adapting their EASHL builds after learning from last week but the settings are the same so I won’t be sure until I run into it.

    Yeah. I thought the lineup was perfect enough to at least cause a hit-stumble, but the player should've most definitely been separated from the puck. Most of the time, if not all, as a defenseman, that's all I'm trying to do. Because of the follow through animation of big hits, you lose that half-second to second of control after a hit, and that can take you out of the following play.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    LiveDoggy wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    BassMan_PC wrote: »
    I play as a dangler and use spins a lot. So, I don't want them to ruin my Savardian Spin-o-ramas. However, I don't skate backwards much like in the video. I think when someone is skating backwards towards you, you should be able to hit them off the puck easier and make them stumble. There is too much bubble action that interferes with the hits.

    I don’t the mind the typical Spin o Rama you see. That’s fine. But continuously skating backwards and half spins again and again without any sort consequence makes my blood boil when I play people like this. What doesn’t make sense is in the video he appears to keep his speed and even get faster. That should not be the case.

    I should have recorded more of them doing exactly what I said. Next time I play a team like this I will.

    In your video, the centre pivots too aggressively to the outside instead of holding the middle of the ice. That is why he got burned and it makes it look like the puck carrier gained speed.

    @BassMan_PC - 100% right. Doing a half spin, you will gain speed coming out of the animation. Most of these guys ( at least in club) will try this, but end up doing a full spin instead.

    It sucks, but with new tuner, comes new exploits. So instead of bending over on the short side of the goalie to stop cheese goals for last 3 months, you have something different to deal with.

    My advice (which is only my opinion) is let him do the spin, but just position yourself based on where he will spin to. You will rub up against him, EA auto stick lift will take over and cause the turnover. Not exactly ideal, but a good way to take these types of players and get them frustrated and essentially try something a little less silly.

    I or my club also don't really go for the hits in open ice. sounds silly, but the way the game is, is not favorable for that. As funny as it sounds, with the new tuner, my defense consists of just trying to get close to the guy. (I dont use stick lift, poke check) If close enough, auto EA will take over or he will just lose the puck (EA calls it incidental contact). I let these guys spin, deke, whatever they want, at the end of the day, most of these guys go for the same shot, so essentially I'm at that spot, just waiting.

    (This is for Club 3s, I dont play HUT or VS, so can't speak for tactics in those modes.

    The thing is about that comment is the devs said you don’t get speed doing that.

    hmm, I could be wrong, I thought I saw a dev comment that is gives you a speed burst out of the animation.. Let me see if I could find post..

    I remember the dev saying there is no speed boost. Not to argue or anything, but I do remember him saying that.

    Nice to see somebody else remembers that.

    Say in the game clip I posted, does it appear the ballerina gains speed?

    @EpiCxOwNeD - It does appear so.

    I’m only asking people because me and @WainGretSki clearly remember being told it doesn’t increase speed so I thought just asking around if you guys think so.

    It doesn’t increase speed. If anything you are better to keep skating forward, especially because you could hustle that way.

    The issue with the pivot is that it doesn’t hinder your ability to accelerate like it should at certain moments within the pivot so the perception, especially with the rotation is that you gain speed when really it is that you didn’t lose enough.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.

    It clearly is when someone like me averages 12-14 and plays with high ms like that there is a huge difference.

    The point though is i shouldn’t have played someone from that region midday.

    I'm in Calgary and have been getting matched up constantly with eastern players, getting that similar 45-50 ping. Agree that when you're not used to that high ping, it's a tough adjustment. I would love either the same treatment hut got with servers, or at the very least, a region lock option. I absolutely do not want to play against anyone from the east, ever.

    That's in vs mode. In HUT I always connect to the western server and it's almost always smooth, except for the odd game that feels and plays similar to when I play against someone from the east in a VS match. When I've asked, it's usually been the case they were from the east.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »

    When you select players and pull them everywhere, the AI does get "lost" and at a certain point just breaks down due to too many errors or adjustments.

    Yup. Exactly.

    I don’t want this thread to go into into a different direction but that game was hard to play because of this

    0qferk5i9k20.jpeg


    I could only assume he is from Calgary because he used the Flames arena. Not proof that he was from there but why is a person like me from Boston getting matched up from somebody that is maybe in Calgary. It took half to a full second of my inputs to actually register so I tried my best to still in position and switch accordingly. I wanted the video to be about the goalie missing the shot but know you guys have me more input to why I’m kinda outta position like that.

    I play OVP in 48MS constantly. This was not the issue.

    It clearly is when someone like me averages 12-14 and plays with high ms like that there is a huge difference.

    The point though is i shouldn’t have played someone from that region midday.

    I'm in Calgary and have been getting matched up constantly with eastern players, getting that similar 45-50 ping. Agree that when you're not used to that high ping, it's a tough adjustment. I would love either the same treatment hut got with servers, or at the very least, a region lock option. I absolutely do not want to play against anyone from the east, ever.

    That's in vs mode. In HUT I always connect to the western server and it's almost always smooth, except for the odd game that feels and plays similar to when I play against someone from the east in a VS match. When I've asked, it's usually been the case they were from the east.

    Yup. Exactly what I mean. Play on your closest server which makes the game smooth then you get the random cross country server which makes the games feel a lot slower. It’s unbearable sometimes when that happens.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    I posted this in the tuner thread. Hitting, incidental contact, and shoves (in my honest opinion), have changed. Not sure when you took your video, but I just took this a few minutes ago. The mechanics of the game allow for raggers and dancers to happen because there are no negative effects to it. In the beta tuner, the counter was that there was much, much, much more lose puck battles and loss of pucks due to hit and incidental contact, now it seems we're back to where we were.

    Players keeping the puck with NO counter to is is unrealistic!

    nJxFXoA.gif

    This clip is a PERFECT example of the current state of hitting in NHL19. Teal should have rocked that forward. Hitting is not tuned properly at the moment.
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