EA Forums - Banner

Gameplay Updates Based on Beta Tuner Rollback Feedback

Replies

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited February 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.
    For what it’s worth, I posted about this same problem in another thread. Hitting in the roll back and latest tuner is terrible as the video shows. I experience this all the time using a pwf. Unless you have run away freight train speed and momentum leading into the hit you just bump into them as the video clip shows. I believe the sluggish skating is the issue.

    If anything, the rollback and current tuner should have more hitting than 1.03 but that was also just low relative speed hits from behind. All other hitting has been the same all year.

    Is it possible you are clicking in your right stick when you go to hit? Could be the chop mechanic that is blocking you from actually throwing a hit.

    What console do you play on and do you put your thumb on top of your right stick or flick it from the sides?

    Just thinking outside the box.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.
    For what it’s worth, I posted about this same problem in another thread. Hitting in the roll back and latest tuner is terrible as the video shows. I experience this all the time using a pwf. Unless you have run away freight train speed and momentum leading into the hit you just bump into them as the video clip shows. I believe the sluggish skating is the issue.

    Idk, I don't have that issue. It's mostly about your build and to a lesser extent, your opponent's. I play Center as a 6'1" 218lb Grinder with the hitting hammer as secondary trait. I can crush anyone as a C.

    Your momentum is a big factor I've found. D have to be bigger than forwards to consistently level the same hits because they typically have less momentum when laying a hit than does a forward.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    but the puck isnt coming free often enough on plays like this consistently any more, and that is the issue. obviously the video is an extreme example, but even low relative speed hits, from dead center attack points, in the beta tuner were causing the puck to come loose. my theory is that the tuning made to incidental contact is what's causing this issue, any thoughts on the tuning that was done there potentially being the issue?
  • For what it's worth I played about 25 or 30 6s game since the new tuner rolled out, and I see a wide variety of builds across all positions. I don't see just a couple here and there, and I see big and small people. I'm not saying you guys don't see what you see, but I see the opposite. Maybe it's just who we're getting matched up with?

    True, you see all kinds of builds if you play enough games... today we faced a team with 4 snipers and 1 dangler... :o

    They weren't much of an opposition, most likely kids or something.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    HUT doesn't allow you to save just one team. You can save multiple teams (with lineups and strategies). So is it really that hard to give OVP players the VS equivalent of a HUT account, allowing them to save different NHL teams w/their lineups and strategies?

    Same answer then I guess but we can replace single team with single team with multiple lineups to be more clear.

    The online/modes teams use the same roster file they update for offline right now and continue to update through the year.

    If it was easy, it would have been done already I’m sure.

    What confuses me is that FIFA allows you to do this in Seasons, and I believe Madden allows you to do it for H2H online games as well, and both those games update their rosters regularly. Seems odd that it's so much harder to figure out how to do it for this series.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    HUT doesn't allow you to save just one team. You can save multiple teams (with lineups and strategies). So is it really that hard to give OVP players the VS equivalent of a HUT account, allowing them to save different NHL teams w/their lineups and strategies?

    Same answer then I guess but we can replace single team with single team with multiple lineups to be more clear.

    The online/modes teams use the same roster file they update for offline right now and continue to update through the year.

    If it was easy, it would have been done already I’m sure.

    What confuses me is that FIFA allows you to do this in Seasons, and I believe Madden allows you to do it for H2H online games as well, and both those games update their rosters regularly. Seems odd that it's so much harder to figure out how to do it for this series.

    Didn’t say it was impossible. Just that it would take different tech than we are using now. Nothing confusing about it at all other than infrastructure would need to change before it could be done.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    HUT doesn't allow you to save just one team. You can save multiple teams (with lineups and strategies). So is it really that hard to give OVP players the VS equivalent of a HUT account, allowing them to save different NHL teams w/their lineups and strategies?

    Same answer then I guess but we can replace single team with single team with multiple lineups to be more clear.

    The online/modes teams use the same roster file they update for offline right now and continue to update through the year.

    If it was easy, it would have been done already I’m sure.

    What confuses me is that FIFA allows you to do this in Seasons, and I believe Madden allows you to do it for H2H online games as well, and both those games update their rosters regularly. Seems odd that it's so much harder to figure out how to do it for this series.

    Didn’t say it was impossible. Just that it would take different tech than we are using now. Nothing confusing about it at all other than infrastructure would need to change before it could be done.

    Interesting. I would have thought you guys shared infrastructure when it came to things like Ultimate Team and online H2H games.

    Well, regardless, if the team could manage to make this possible, it would make VS much more appealing to play. Back when each team had three pauses, it wasn't such a big deal, because you could use one of your pauses to fix your lineup. But with one pause (and slow menus), you really have to do it before the game starts, and lots of people quit rather than wait for you to do that.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    HUT doesn't allow you to save just one team. You can save multiple teams (with lineups and strategies). So is it really that hard to give OVP players the VS equivalent of a HUT account, allowing them to save different NHL teams w/their lineups and strategies?

    Same answer then I guess but we can replace single team with single team with multiple lineups to be more clear.

    The online/modes teams use the same roster file they update for offline right now and continue to update through the year.

    If it was easy, it would have been done already I’m sure.

    What confuses me is that FIFA allows you to do this in Seasons, and I believe Madden allows you to do it for H2H online games as well, and both those games update their rosters regularly. Seems odd that it's so much harder to figure out how to do it for this series.

    Didn’t say it was impossible. Just that it would take different tech than we are using now. Nothing confusing about it at all other than infrastructure would need to change before it could be done.

    Interesting. I would have thought you guys shared infrastructure when it came to things like Ultimate Team and online H2H games.

    Well, regardless, if the team could manage to make this possible, it would make VS much more appealing to play. Back when each team had three pauses, it wasn't such a big deal, because you could use one of your pauses to fix your lineup. But with one pause (and slow menus), you really have to do it before the game starts, and lots of people quit rather than wait for you to do that.

    You see your lineup in vs before you cue. You don't have to worry about people quitting. It is annoying to have to do it every time you play vs tho.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    HUT doesn't allow you to save just one team. You can save multiple teams (with lineups and strategies). So is it really that hard to give OVP players the VS equivalent of a HUT account, allowing them to save different NHL teams w/their lineups and strategies?

    Same answer then I guess but we can replace single team with single team with multiple lineups to be more clear.

    The online/modes teams use the same roster file they update for offline right now and continue to update through the year.

    If it was easy, it would have been done already I’m sure.

    What confuses me is that FIFA allows you to do this in Seasons, and I believe Madden allows you to do it for H2H online games as well, and both those games update their rosters regularly. Seems odd that it's so much harder to figure out how to do it for this series.

    Didn’t say it was impossible. Just that it would take different tech than we are using now. Nothing confusing about it at all other than infrastructure would need to change before it could be done.

    Interesting. I would have thought you guys shared infrastructure when it came to things like Ultimate Team and online H2H games.

    Well, regardless, if the team could manage to make this possible, it would make VS much more appealing to play. Back when each team had three pauses, it wasn't such a big deal, because you could use one of your pauses to fix your lineup. But with one pause (and slow menus), you really have to do it before the game starts, and lots of people quit rather than wait for you to do that.

    Not everything is an absolute. There are plenty of shared pieces of infrastructure. As you have said, we can do all this in ultimate team, however for vs we can’t right now.

    It has been known as something that the community would like but there are a lot of things on the online teams list so I am not sure when/if that will be done.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    With your beta tuner I saw more of a variety of builds. Even more astonishing was going from 1.03 to the beta tuner, defensemen were actually using defense builds and not forward builds. I think what people are concerned with is not necessarily hitting, but the puck retention from beta tuner to this tuner seems to have gone up. Had no trouble with separating the puck from players in the beta. Especially if they didn't pass or skated right into me. Then you have cases in the gif. Low speed battles are a lose-lose situation for the hitter, which is where you see complaints about ragging.

    I think we're now back to everyone using the SNP/DNG build. I see a lot of SNP/DNG with bigger players, so they have the handle, shot, and size. I've already been criticized for using a small build as a defenseman, but what do you want me to do to keep up with fast forwards? There's no incentive to using bigger, more powerful builds as a D-man. Absolutely zero. Right now I cycle through TWF/PMD for my builds and touch nothing else.

    If you're using a small pmd/twf for speed then you're sacrificing quite a bit of physicality. I really don't like that a DD should have to be a bad skater, the idea just doesn't make sense. I'd rather have a blank slate and attributes to work with. Let me decide strengths and weaknesses.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    With your beta tuner I saw more of a variety of builds. Even more astonishing was going from 1.03 to the beta tuner, defensemen were actually using defense builds and not forward builds. I think what people are concerned with is not necessarily hitting, but the puck retention from beta tuner to this tuner seems to have gone up. Had no trouble with separating the puck from players in the beta. Especially if they didn't pass or skated right into me. Then you have cases in the gif. Low speed battles are a lose-lose situation for the hitter, which is where you see complaints about ragging.

    I think we're now back to everyone using the SNP/DNG build. I see a lot of SNP/DNG with bigger players, so they have the handle, shot, and size. I've already been criticized for using a small build as a defenseman, but what do you want me to do to keep up with fast forwards? There's no incentive to using bigger, more powerful builds as a D-man. Absolutely zero. Right now I cycle through TWF/PMD for my builds and touch nothing else.

    If you're using a small pmd/twf for speed then you're sacrificing quite a bit of physicality. I really don't like that a DD should have to be a bad skater, the idea just doesn't make sense. I'd rather have a blank slate and attributes to work with. Let me decide strengths and weaknesses.

    Totally with you on this one. Class balancing around archetypes is so often a dumpster fire(looking at you, games like Neverwinter). It’s one of those ideas some executive pitches, and makes sound as if it makes sense, but really it’s boondoggle and takes away the fun of tinkering.

    Part of me things developers are afraid of the L33t sploiters finding some op build and then everyone going and copy pasting it. I get that, but it’s 2019, and we all have the internets now. It’s ok to just patch up and modify things as we go. No reason to wait for months. Just fix it. And if the fix sucks. Fix it again..quickly. It’s hockey. You don’t need another flashy mode to sell games every year, you need the best gameplay possible...and depth.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • MooseHunter10
    403 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    jiajji wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    With your beta tuner I saw more of a variety of builds. Even more astonishing was going from 1.03 to the beta tuner, defensemen were actually using defense builds and not forward builds. I think what people are concerned with is not necessarily hitting, but the puck retention from beta tuner to this tuner seems to have gone up. Had no trouble with separating the puck from players in the beta. Especially if they didn't pass or skated right into me. Then you have cases in the gif. Low speed battles are a lose-lose situation for the hitter, which is where you see complaints about ragging.

    I think we're now back to everyone using the SNP/DNG build. I see a lot of SNP/DNG with bigger players, so they have the handle, shot, and size. I've already been criticized for using a small build as a defenseman, but what do you want me to do to keep up with fast forwards? There's no incentive to using bigger, more powerful builds as a D-man. Absolutely zero. Right now I cycle through TWF/PMD for my builds and touch nothing else.

    If you're using a small pmd/twf for speed then you're sacrificing quite a bit of physicality. I really don't like that a DD should have to be a bad skater, the idea just doesn't make sense. I'd rather have a blank slate and attributes to work with. Let me decide strengths and weaknesses.

    Im with you that skating is too important (to take DD), and its ridiculous that max skating is only available on the one dimensional offensive classes. Blank slate, and all skaters would be max skating, so might as well just go back to last year's equal speed. Makes no sense that 5'7" is the fastest. Tightest turns sure, but fastest skater in the NHL is 6'1".

    5'7" snipers are curling at ease, and do a better job separating the puck than power forwards. Better suited for catching opponents and causing incidental contact / skating between the carrier and his stick. Is the problem the tuner, or that 5'7" is the best size to be? Time to balance out the classes, most notably adding a penalty to speed for being short equal to the one for being tall.
    EASHL player
  • KidShowtime1867
    1839 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Pulled a couple of Gifs to show 2 things;

    1. Penalty inconsistency. Something needs to be reworked here.
    2. Puck physics on defender skill stick is completely bonkers.


    Penalty inconsistency

    Here we see Ben Chairot fade out a puck carrier and body check him only to be called for 'boarding'"

    PlrAUnr.gif

    In a different game, we see Nikolai Ehlers get absolutely crushed on a blatant charge (notice the feet keep moving) but there's no call and MTL gets possession of the puck after the fact:

    zm4glFW.gif


    Puck physics

    The A.I. Initializing DSS in front of the net is very risky now as it seems to cause some funky interactions:

    etMS2Cf.gif



    BONUS: It gets really tiring when your opponent only has 1 go-to scoring strategy. It results in situations like this where trolls can dictate how much time is lost:

    opVcmBt.gif

    Not saying this is a fault of the game - I don't think it is. The reason things like the scenario above play out is due to the incredibly toxic 'win-at-all-costs' mentality. This user is clearly exploiting part of the game - he knows if I draw my forward out of the slot to 'chase' him, he gets wide open one-timers.

    Again - I don't feel it's the fault of the game. However - something should be done to at least try to mitigate these scenarios. I don't know what the answer is, but it's important to have the discussion.

    At the end of the day, I know that this is simply a player with ridiculously poor scoring skill and can only utilize one specific method to get things to go the way he wants. The problem is that in defending someone who uses these ridiculous ways of trying to exploit leaves you in an incredibly precarious and unbalanced position.

    The puck carrier is allowed to stand completely still with no pressure to make a play. Yes - I could chase him and force him, but this is exactly what this player wants you to do in order to expose the one-timer.

    So you're left with nothing to do but stand in the slot and wait for him to decide to make a play.

    Maybe I should try to enclose him behind the net a little better than I did? I dunno. Frustrating to play games like this. But - I will say that this doesn't happen too often.

    I've climbed my way back in to the top 700 (fell to 2,500 post-tuner) and you do notice these tendencies more as you work your way up to the elite.

  • Pulled a couple of Gifs to show 2 things;

    1. Penalty inconsistency. Something needs to be reworked here.
    2. Puck physics on defender skill stick is completely bonkers.


    Penalty inconsistency

    Here we see Ben Chairot fade out a puck carrier and body check him only to be called for 'boarding'"

    PlrAUnr.gif

    In a different game, we see Nikolai Ehlers get absolutely crushed on a blatant charge (notice the feet keep moving) but there's no call and MTL gets possession of the puck after the fact:

    zm4glFW.gif


    Puck physics

    The A.I. Initializing DSS in front of the net is very risky now as it seems to cause some funky interactions:

    etMS2Cf.gif



    BONUS: It gets really tiring when your opponent only has 1 go-to scoring strategy. It results in situations like this where trolls can dictate how much time is lost:

    opVcmBt.gif

    Not saying this is a fault of the game - I don't think it is. The reason things like the scenario above play out is due to the incredibly toxic 'win-at-all-costs' mentality. This user is clearly exploiting part of the game - he knows if I draw my forward out of the slot to 'chase' him, he gets wide open one-timers.

    Again - I don't feel it's the fault of the game. However - something should be done to at least try to mitigate these scenarios. I don't know what the answer is, but it's important to have the discussion.

    At the end of the day, I know that this is simply a player with ridiculously poor scoring skill and can only utilize one specific method to get things to go the way he wants. The problem is that in defending someone who uses these ridiculous ways of trying to exploit leaves you in an incredibly precarious and unbalanced position.

    The puck carrier is allowed to stand completely still with no pressure to make a play. Yes - I could chase him and force him, but this is exactly what this player wants you to do in order to expose the one-timer.

    So you're left with nothing to do but stand in the slot and wait for him to decide to make a play.

    Maybe I should try to enclose him behind the net a little better than I did? I dunno. Frustrating to play games like this. But - I will say that this doesn't happen too often.

    I've climbed my way back in to the top 700 (fell to 2,500 post-tuner) and you do notice these tendencies more as you work your way up to the elite.

    In this situation I wish there was a send ai button. Only problem is they are muted. People see it as skill zone but why open yourself up to the 1 trick ponies. If you can only control 1 at a time there should be more tools available. I dont mind grinding for goals....that's how hockey is.
  • MooseHunter10
    403 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    flyextacy wrote: »
    Pulled a couple of Gifs to show 2 things;

    1. Penalty inconsistency. Something needs to be reworked here.
    2. Puck physics on defender skill stick is completely bonkers.


    Penalty inconsistency

    Here we see Ben Chairot fade out a puck carrier and body check him only to be called for 'boarding'"

    PlrAUnr.gif

    In a different game, we see Nikolai Ehlers get absolutely crushed on a blatant charge (notice the feet keep moving) but there's no call and MTL gets possession of the puck after the fact:

    zm4glFW.gif


    Puck physics

    The A.I. Initializing DSS in front of the net is very risky now as it seems to cause some funky interactions:

    etMS2Cf.gif



    BONUS: It gets really tiring when your opponent only has 1 go-to scoring strategy. It results in situations like this where trolls can dictate how much time is lost:

    opVcmBt.gif

    Not saying this is a fault of the game - I don't think it is. The reason things like the scenario above play out is due to the incredibly toxic 'win-at-all-costs' mentality. This user is clearly exploiting part of the game - he knows if I draw my forward out of the slot to 'chase' him, he gets wide open one-timers.

    Again - I don't feel it's the fault of the game. However - something should be done to at least try to mitigate these scenarios. I don't know what the answer is, but it's important to have the discussion.

    At the end of the day, I know that this is simply a player with ridiculously poor scoring skill and can only utilize one specific method to get things to go the way he wants. The problem is that in defending someone who uses these ridiculous ways of trying to exploit leaves you in an incredibly precarious and unbalanced position.

    The puck carrier is allowed to stand completely still with no pressure to make a play. Yes - I could chase him and force him, but this is exactly what this player wants you to do in order to expose the one-timer.

    So you're left with nothing to do but stand in the slot and wait for him to decide to make a play.

    Maybe I should try to enclose him behind the net a little better than I did? I dunno. Frustrating to play games like this. But - I will say that this doesn't happen too often.

    I've climbed my way back in to the top 700 (fell to 2,500 post-tuner) and you do notice these tendencies more as you work your way up to the elite.

    In this situation I wish there was a send ai button. Only problem is they are muted. People see it as skill zone but why open yourself up to the 1 trick ponies. If you can only control 1 at a time there should be more tools available. I dont mind grinding for goals....that's how hockey is.

    FIFA has this, hold L1 to call for a double team. I have no horse in the OVP/HUT modes, but the passive AI defense looks like a joke from my outside perspective. Win at all costs + AI = not for everybody.
    EASHL player
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    With your beta tuner I saw more of a variety of builds. Even more astonishing was going from 1.03 to the beta tuner, defensemen were actually using defense builds and not forward builds. I think what people are concerned with is not necessarily hitting, but the puck retention from beta tuner to this tuner seems to have gone up. Had no trouble with separating the puck from players in the beta. Especially if they didn't pass or skated right into me. Then you have cases in the gif. Low speed battles are a lose-lose situation for the hitter, which is where you see complaints about ragging.

    I think we're now back to everyone using the SNP/DNG build. I see a lot of SNP/DNG with bigger players, so they have the handle, shot, and size. I've already been criticized for using a small build as a defenseman, but what do you want me to do to keep up with fast forwards? There's no incentive to using bigger, more powerful builds as a D-man. Absolutely zero. Right now I cycle through TWF/PMD for my builds and touch nothing else.

    Personally I've been having success, and things feel good with a 6'5 205lb grinder with the quick wrister 2, the body check 2, and depending on my mood either the marathon man or breakaway wizard (for 3s).
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    So I mentioned earlier in the thread about hitting feeling different between beta tuner and new tuner, and I think EA said that there was no change. There were also a few people saying that I was crazy. Just got on and first game I got a few examples. Here's one. In my opinion, this wouldn't happen in the beta tuner. Dude probably would have lost the puck with being hit just by incidental contact alone. This goes hand in hand with skaters now being able to rag the puck the whole length of the ice ignoring hits, going through people, beating stick-on-stick incidental and never losing the puck.

    Anyone else think I'm crazy? I think the protective wall is back.

    nJxFXoA.gif



    @NHLDev

    any thoughts on this video? you had previously said you thought we were trolling you and that nothing in the tuners would cause the changes we are seeing....this is happening way too often after the tuner

    I said it felt like it because it doesn’t make sense to like the rollback tuner and not this one.

    There are people saying that PS4 hits are less than Xbox (which I don’t understand yet either) but those that say that describe that was the same during the rollback. So there isn’t anything to suggest that hits now are less than during the rollback.

    That clip does surprise me since it’s a hit from the front and not low relative speed anyways so wasn’t even tuned in 1.03 let along now. The puck should have come free right away regardless of hit magnitude due to knocking away from the puck.

    You are saying you are seeing it all the time but I haven’t seen it myself.

    I am not sure what builds people are using in these encounters but I am sure peoppe in eashl have adapted and are using more size in their builds due to the physics changes which can obviously make a difference.

    With your beta tuner I saw more of a variety of builds. Even more astonishing was going from 1.03 to the beta tuner, defensemen were actually using defense builds and not forward builds. I think what people are concerned with is not necessarily hitting, but the puck retention from beta tuner to this tuner seems to have gone up. Had no trouble with separating the puck from players in the beta. Especially if they didn't pass or skated right into me. Then you have cases in the gif. Low speed battles are a lose-lose situation for the hitter, which is where you see complaints about ragging.

    I think we're now back to everyone using the SNP/DNG build. I see a lot of SNP/DNG with bigger players, so they have the handle, shot, and size. I've already been criticized for using a small build as a defenseman, but what do you want me to do to keep up with fast forwards? There's no incentive to using bigger, more powerful builds as a D-man. Absolutely zero. Right now I cycle through TWF/PMD for my builds and touch nothing else.

    I think the different builds you saw during the rollback were players trying to feel the game out, builds that were go-tos no longer worked or didn't translate in the same way so there was a discovery process. I personally don't use the same build today that I used in 1.03, and during the week of the rollback I went through all of the builds. Today's tuner is close enough to the rollback that what I found by the end of that week is still appropriate. I don't really think that 1st week is telling of much, people know what works, what doesn't, what's exploitable and what isn't but that wasn't the case for a few days.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Here's my take on people complaining about "skillzoning": they don't cry when their AI forwards set up automatically in the offensive zone. They are certainly not the ones who are manually moving their teammates into prime scoring positions.

    So why is it alright for their AI forwards to be automated, but defensive teammates have to be "dumb" and "do nothing"?

    Also, there's "skillzoning" and then there's playing proper defense. If all you want to do is dance around in the corner hoping for me to chase you while you're holding/charging RT waiting for my AI to leave it's post (because it will), then I have no problems keeping you to the outside and waiting as well.

    To me, the solution would be simple: make the AI hold its position but nothing else. If the user wants to sit in the middle, then he leaves his own assignment unguarded and it will be HIS fault if the opponent gets a good scoring chance. The AI shouldn't try to compensate for the user's bad positioning. The opponent should be able to pick up on that and know that the defensive AI will be in position and on its assigned players, so he has a free reign to take the puck to the net if he's not being marked, like a real NHL player would.
  • Pulled a couple of Gifs to show 2 things;

    1. Penalty inconsistency. Something needs to be reworked here.
    2. Puck physics on defender skill stick is completely bonkers.


    Penalty inconsistency

    Here we see Ben Chairot fade out a puck carrier and body check him only to be called for 'boarding'"

    PlrAUnr.gif

    In a different game, we see Nikolai Ehlers get absolutely crushed on a blatant charge (notice the feet keep moving) but there's no call and MTL gets possession of the puck after the fact:

    zm4glFW.gif


    Puck physics

    The A.I. Initializing DSS in front of the net is very risky now as it seems to cause some funky interactions:

    etMS2Cf.gif



    BONUS: It gets really tiring when your opponent only has 1 go-to scoring strategy. It results in situations like this where trolls can dictate how much time is lost:

    opVcmBt.gif

    Not saying this is a fault of the game - I don't think it is. The reason things like the scenario above play out is due to the incredibly toxic 'win-at-all-costs' mentality. This user is clearly exploiting part of the game - he knows if I draw my forward out of the slot to 'chase' him, he gets wide open one-timers.

    Again - I don't feel it's the fault of the game. However - something should be done to at least try to mitigate these scenarios. I don't know what the answer is, but it's important to have the discussion.

    At the end of the day, I know that this is simply a player with ridiculously poor scoring skill and can only utilize one specific method to get things to go the way he wants. The problem is that in defending someone who uses these ridiculous ways of trying to exploit leaves you in an incredibly precarious and unbalanced position.

    The puck carrier is allowed to stand completely still with no pressure to make a play. Yes - I could chase him and force him, but this is exactly what this player wants you to do in order to expose the one-timer.

    So you're left with nothing to do but stand in the slot and wait for him to decide to make a play.

    Maybe I should try to enclose him behind the net a little better than I did? I dunno. Frustrating to play games like this. But - I will say that this doesn't happen too often.

    I've climbed my way back in to the top 700 (fell to 2,500 post-tuner) and you do notice these tendencies more as you work your way up to the elite.

    I have seen quite a few hits that were called as boarding when clearly there was no boarding involved. Last night I hit a player that was at least 15 feet from the boards and I got called for boarding.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Here's my take on people complaining about "skillzoning": they don't cry when their AI forwards set up automatically in the offensive zone. They are certainly not the ones who are manually moving their teammates into prime scoring positions.

    So why is it alright for their AI forwards to be automated, but defensive teammates have to be "dumb" and "do nothing"?

    I complain about skill-zoning, and I don't want people's defensive teammates to "do nothing." I want AI teammates to be good off the puck and good at staying with their man. I don't think they should be attacking the puck carrier while the user sits in the middle of the ice. You can obviously win against that style, but it's frustrating.

    As for why people complain about skill-zoning but don't complain about AI forwards setting up automatically, there's no analogy between the two things. On offense, the user has to carry the puck, make every pass, take every shot (at least now that position-locking is gone, thank God). Your AI teammates on offense can help you, but you can't rely on them to carry the burden - if you do, obviously, you lose.

    The basic idea is that what's true of offense should also be true of defense - the user should bear most of the burden of playing on the puck, while his AI teammates help him out. With skill zoning, it's the opposite - the user plays a largely passive role, and the AI teammates do all the work. Which is why people justifiably hate it so much.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.