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@NHLDev Another one for you please...

I've questioned this before on this forum, and never really got a satisfactory answer so trying again. I just played my first Division 2 game and matched this player:

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One division up, perhaps not unreasonable until you look at his ranking compared to mine:

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The key facts as I see it: My opponent was ranked a whopping
  • 5,095 places higher than me
  • More than half as many league points again than me
  • A record pushing .700 where mine is wallowing at around .400.

This matchup took a mere 10 seconds to find - suggesting that this wasn't someone quite so far from my own ranking if previous comments in this forum and online are to be believed.

So how on Earth did we match? Perhaps we were the only two people online at the time - hard to believe but a possibility so I'll put it out there. Was everyone else online at 11am GMT 12pm CET on a Sunday further ranked from me? Possible, yes but given the new HUT Competitive Season and HUT Champions competitions running today it's considered a fact in the NHL community that most of the better players are grinding those competitions to win big players and big prizes rather than just another D1 title.

Is everyone else ranked from 2324 down to 12,512 (closer than 5095 places below me) - over 10,000 players - not available to play? Again, very possible - so please would it be at all difficult to put on the preview screen a summary of this info so you could make a decision if you want to continue or not?

People quit out of matches with the well known elite of NHL all the time because they don't feel like it would be a competitive game. Why do those of us who match equally challenging opponents not get the chance to say "Hang on, this is a D1 guy with 50% more online wins than me and ranked 5000 places higher than me" It's like the minnows of the European Soccer leagues who are part timers having to face Barcelona in a league match because they were there in Barcelona for a training session. That shouldn't count in their lower league, but in NHL19 it does.

I know this post will generate some of the usual negative comments so let me pre-empt those by saying yes I know that the only way to get better is to play better players, but the fixture list wouldn't put my D3 and D2 team against D1 teams every other week (every other match it's been for me in NHL19) in any league competition in the world.

I understand matchmaking is limited to numbers, and availability but don't force us to play more competitive matches than we are ready for in Divisions. HUT Champs and Comp Seasons are Cup competitions - the minnows of the minor leagues can and do play the world champs in round 3 and 4, so there I have no problem with it. There I like the challenge because there I don't lose anything other than the potential prizes I could have won if I played easier opponents. But pulling overpowered opposition in Divisions means relegation, and further grinding to get back to where you were. That is the problem.

Replies

  • TreborMalkin
    272 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    JetSet your lucky I’m ranked in the 8,000s and in D2. I played someone ranked in the 600s. Cool thing was not only was I playing out of my league. I hit 8 posts and had 6 onetimers from the circle with Webber or McInnis that went wide. The one breakaway I got without the d being back to dive and block the pass makita shot it to the opposite board.

    Needless to say in a game I should have been beat solidly based purely on skill since I had a 94 team and he an 84 team he smoked me, my guys wouldn’t get pucks, I had one where I had 2 d on one side of the redline and the puck on the opposite side right by them and the ai player of the other team came up from the blue line and got the puck. I don’t think ea needs to adjust by team overall they should adjust by player ranking, if they have to adjust games. Looking at your pics he was 88 overall and you were 91. Not a big gap but I bet he had a couple base players.

    If I see I’m playing a team with Horton I know I have to buckle down and I get excited if I get a goal on them. Lol.
  • Guys, you are lucky to play in Div 2 vs Div1 players. I'm a beginner, currently in Div6 and just had an opponent from Div2 (my rank 25k+, opponent ~3000.

    There is nothing fun to have games like that too often. Once in a while it's ok to have a reality check by losing without any chance to win... but not everyday.
  • AreAreZ wrote: »
    Guys, you are lucky to play in Div 2 vs Div1 players. I'm a beginner, currently in Div6 and just had an opponent from Div2 (my rank 25k+, opponent ~3000.

    There is nothing fun to have games like that too often. Once in a while it's ok to have a reality check by losing without any chance to win... but not everyday.

    @AreAreZ I feel you mate, I started to match up with D2 guys also in Div 6 - but thankfully it was rare. The reason for my post now is because in Division 3 and now 2 every other opponent is from Division 1 and similarly ranked thousands of places above me.
  • I'm Div 1 - Rank 196.
    I played a Div 6 guy tonight. Needless to say he disc after the first 5 mins. I have no clue how we got matched.
  • I have played guys ranked in the 1,000’s when I was in d7 he was also. It stinks but hey if you are good enough to go all the way up back down and work your way back up that’s impressive.

    Sturm- if you don’t mind me asking what was your overall of the team that played him? Do you know what his was?
  • I have played 22 games in the current season I am 4-18. Yes I am a glutton for punishment but trying to get better the 4 games I have won were all with a base gold team my best team is 0-18 and most say it’s the person holding the controller but I don’t see how I am better with a team 10 points lower overall. But that team skates better defends better and has fewer synergies. Even has the base Gibson in goal and I have all star Gibson in my other team. Base Gibson has an 87 save %. All star 80.%. There is an almost 3 goals a game difference between them.
  • Jetset95
    430 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I have played guys ranked in the 1,000’s when I was in d7 he was also. It stinks but hey if you are good enough to go all the way up back down and work your way back up that’s impressive.

    Sturm- if you don’t mind me asking what was your overall of the team that played him? Do you know what his was?

    @TreborMalkin it's not about the team rating (are they 85 or 99 overall) that is the issue I think - it's the fact that lesser players ranked 1000's of places below, with much fewer online wins, and records in the tank compared to the players we are matched with who are much higher, much better, win more games, more consistently.

    On Xbox there is a player in the top 100 who is in Division 7. He's obviously not a good player; but he plays all day - every day - based on the number of wins and losses he has. He may cause a problem because he's ranked so high, and his wins may be the most on Xbox this year, but his win percentage is no better than mine ranked 7300 places below him.
  • I have played in 21 seasons. I have played a lot of games I’m 70ish games below 500 I’m ranked in the 8000’s
  • TreborMalkin
    272 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I’m Number 8713 overall. I have played 2 games in D2. Lost first 5-1 to number 677 overall. Lost second 5-4 in ot on a cross ice pass after his goalie made 3 crazy save on the same type of play he was ranked 1946. Average difference in ranking in my 2 games 7,401. In seasons I’m 79-95-18, overall I’m 280-361-53.
  • I know how painful it is to loose to goalies who stand on their head and I've had legends shoot over the bar and others 88 rated gold rare's blast them in from the same point. So much so that I started to review the replays and many of those shots of mine that hit the bar or go over were in fact saves by the goaltender just getting a touch on the puck to deflect it.

    Let me put this in context before I tell you the (admittedly, limited) results. Yesterday I played 8 online games - 5 HUT Champs games (to qualify for the rewards) and 3 Division 2 games:
    • First 4 HUT Champs games I lost 1-11 (yes he scored 11 goals on my old goaltender), 1-4, 2-3, 1-2
    • The first Division 2 game I lost 1-2 in overtime
    • The first two HUT Champs games were against someone rated in the top 150 but my goalie couldn't stop a single shot that went high in either of them
    • His rebound control was also a problem - slap shots low would often give up a rebound and an easy shot the other side
    • The Division 2 Overtime goal was conceded to slap shot hight to the glove side

    It was at this point that I had begun to review the footage in replay and I could see I was getting some good shots off but each opponents goaltender was having a great day against me. The 1-11 loss, and the Division 2 game loss were both to Division 1 opponents with teams at least as good as mine so I don't put this down to anything other than the skill of my opponent, but also now, the slower 'reflexes' of my goalie to make saves high.

    I decided to make a change, and reviewed HUTDB for all the goalies who had better reflexes than mine - that's how position, breakaway, 5-hole and the glove / stick high and low ratings are classified.

    I had heard that the 'best' goaltender would be one who had the best reflex ratings - these would be able to 'move' to intercept the shot in fewer frames of animation in the game - i.e. faster reflexes. The game developer who said this (not to me, to a You Tuber who passed the information on) also said that bigger goaltenders could provide more of that wall covering the net, so even if their reflexes were not quick enough to block the puck, their body could sometimes bale them out.

    This was the premise I went with when I added Marc Andre Fleury to my team. His Xmas MSP card was highly rated, at the time, and he was big. The fact he had all four team synergies didn't hurt either, and in tuner 1.3 he was a pretty good shot stopper for me. I won more games than I lost and I built my team around him.

    Fast forward to the current tuner and while I don't like it as much as 1.3 - I would expect the goalies to perform the same way. My Fleury clearly wasn't doing that - hence I made the change for one with better glove high / low and stick high / low ratings - the 95 Grant Fuhr. His 'high' ratings are 97 and 'low' ratings are 96 - a full 10 points better than my previous net minder.

    Okay, enough prevarication.

    The last HUT Champs game was again against a Div 1 opponent with a stacked team. The difference in my team was the goaltender: Fuhr absolutely won me the game. I still gave up plenty of short side wrist shots - none went in. I still gave up some slap shots from the points - just one rebound was given up - it's a shame it led to a goal but it wasn't fatal. I won the game 2-1 in regulation and although only one game, this gave me confidence to get back into Division 2 and play a few more games.

    My next game in D2 was against someone with a more balanced team and no sign of 97 Nolan or the 99 twins; and half way through the second period it was 5-1 to me and he quit. Fuhr wasn't really tested but couldn't do anything to stop the cross crease one time blast that went in.

    My final game of the day was also in D2 and lo and behold, against a player from D1 - as said earlier the Timmy Horton legend card really gives it away. Fuhr didn't make the 3 stars list but he should have done. I won the game 3-2 in regulation - the first goal conceded was a great deke by my opponent on a breakaway (I should learn to manual control the goalie more, maybe?) and then in the last second my D fell asleep and he blasted in a shot from the slot to make it 3-2 but the game was over.

    So, Fuhr is 3-0-0. I'll still get my gold pack from HUT Champs even with a miserable 3-1-1 record this week, and after 3 games in Division 2 I'm on 5 points out of 6. Not a disaster by any means if I can keep up this kind of record I may actually... no I'm not going to say it and jinx it.

  • I do have a video save on my ps just can’t figure out how to share it. I had gartner a legend stoped by a dive from base price on a break away I got him back to the puck laying in the blue and he whiffed 3 attempts never moving the puck until price got back on it to cover. I have allstar Gibson and flashback luongo as my goalies 89 and 88. I still give up 6 goals on 11 shots. What I can’t figure out is how to get my d back on breakaways and how to keep them from diving to the middle on offense. And if I could figure out how to stop my offensive wings from setting up on the offside side of the blue line on break outs it would be awesome. This tuner in play now I can’t adjust to.
  • If you don’t buy packs how do you get fuhr. There shouldn’t be tuners that make you constantly adjust your team you should have to do so 1 because you get higher rated players 2 you get a player that has better synergies or 3 you get a player from your favorite team. Like me I love the pens and malkin is my favorite player. So his tg 88 overall will be on everyone of my teams. Until I get lucky enough to pull a better rated one. And as far as getting packs there is no way to make money other than playing in online games now. And that wastes contracts. You would have to play a month doing dailies and opening free packs to get the 35k for a gold plus pack. Let alone saving the million to buy the higher rated cards online.
  • If you don’t buy packs how do you get fuhr.

    I've been playing the game since Sept launch and have saved up lots of my winnings and I always place in HUT Champs and Comp Seasons to win packs which give me lots of cards which are useless apart from quick selling them or trading them in. I did the latter and it was how I eventually, after a long grind, got Joe Sakic. I also made quite a few of the legends early in the game by upgrading their Alumni cards using gold collectibles. I got used to re-rolling gold cards that were not in my team to make those GC's and just kept doing it even though I gave up on ever making a 99 Gretzky or Mario as being just too darned expensive.

    As the gold rare market has gone down though spinning your cast offs into gold collectibles and those into carbon collectibles does offer most of the time, a slight premium over selling them on the market - so that is what I do. When the Fuhr sets came out the cost of the All Star collectibles was too high, but I managed to find a Fuhr card on the marketplace and I sold three of my carbon collectibles to fund his purchase and still have some change left over.

    I'm also at the point in the progression challenges now that the rewards for scoring 100 goals and taking 400 shots is 10,000 coins each - not to be sneezed at.

    If you just play the game you can build a pretty much invincible legend based team + a few others you win along the way in Comp Seasons or Off-line challenges who make up a really sold team you don't have to spend a penny of real money on.
    There shouldn’t be tuners that make you constantly adjust your team you should have to do so:
    1. Because you get higher rated players
    2. You get a player that has better synergies, or
    3. You get a player from your favourite team.
    Like me I love the pens and malkin is my favorite player. So his tg 88 overall will be on everyone of my teams. Until I get lucky enough to pull a better rated one.

    I agree in principle that tuners should not change gameplay so much we have to change our team. In this case I've only got my own empirical evidence that it was the case - but after 3 more games today Fuhr is 5-1 losing only his first game because I was messing about with my defensive strategies and let my opponent walk into the slot twice giving him an easy shot that no goalie would save.

    It's not so simple to blame the tuner though in my case - Fleury's ratings are much worse than Fuhr's and so that alone is a good reason for me to make the upgrade as I make the push for Divison 1 and try to hold my lofty position of 600 in Comp Seasons.
    And as far as getting packs there is no way to make money other than playing in online games now. And that wastes contracts. You would have to play a month doing dailies and opening free packs to get the 35k for a gold plus pack. Let alone saving the million to buy the higher rated cards online.

    If you make it to the higher divisions the reward for promotion and winning the league become more valuable - if you can make it to Division 1 then the chance of premium gold rare cards all the way to anything that is in packs at the time, plus a gold or even carbon collectible can boost your coffers quite quickly.

    Add to that the card rewards for HUT Champs and Comp Seasons for us mere mortals mean you can replenish funds and set fodder (bronze, silver and gold common cards) quite quickly.
  • Sturm- if you don’t mind me asking what was your overall of the team that played him? Do you know what his was?

    My overall is 94 and his was at least 92.
    90% of the matchups I have are either equal to me or higher overall. The other 20% are either purposely using lower rated players or are just low div player thats on a long win streak.
  • My d2 run is over I guess I will just have to play 21 more seasons to get there just played a guy in the 2,700’s who is 155-94-16. I don’t expect to win them all but would be nice to get matched up with someone in your rankings or close to it.
  • TreborMalkin
    272 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I did just stay within 2 goals to number 337 overall I guy with 277 wins and 37 titles in D1. If I could just figure out how to knock someone off the puck when they crouch like they do me.
  • SturmWolfe wrote: »
    Sturm- if you don’t mind me asking what was your overall of the team that played him? Do you know what his was?

    My overall is 94 and his was at least 92.
    90% of the matchups I have are either equal to me or higher overall. The other 20% are either purposely using lower rated players or are just low div player thats on a long win streak.

    Since reaching the higher divisions I've never matched up anyone lower than 2 less than me, and it's always someone on good streak or with a better win-loss record than me. It's funny that matchmaking seems to work for my opponents who are coming up, but didn't for me...
  • So how do they match you up? By your team overall or your actual division?

    Help..
  • So how do they match you up? By your team overall or your actual division?

    Help..

    Great question - I asked this to @NHLDev and he didn't know for HUT how it worked.
  • jjb
    48 posts Member
    you are matched within 5 divisions of your current. they would have to create a bunch more matchmaking algorithms to make it as specific as ranking, w/l ratio and whatever else. or they could close it to 3 division gap, but regardless you would either be waiting forever for a game or never get one. there is usually less than 2-3000 players on roughly i would guess atleast on your server. would you rather have tough games that help you get better or no games at all 50% of the time.
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