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NHL 20 Patch Details January 30th


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Sales dropping each year EA... This is why.

Replies

  • I dont buy every year...I like the 1 game every few years to take the time to build the game as your saying.
    I noticed the longer you have the game..in my case NHL 14,the more some people enjoy playing me cause they trust me to give them a fare honest sim hockey experience. Your not getting a cheeser with me and I know and trust who I play with cause I know the lag switchers and cheaters by memory. I also developed fun rivalries with these players. The same can be said with you sticking with NHL 19 for a while.
    I dont need to or wish to be the best,the game suits my hockey itch..I play for the fun of it.Heck I was on 14 till 4 am this morning.
    For the record..I been watching live streams,some games I think things look alright,others the issues hit you in the face. Goaltending for one some games they look great ,others weak.
    I still say that we need to go with manual tipping.That way you can deflect pucks anytime you want too.

    Not trying to sound like a butthead here, but you haven't purchased 15, 16, 17, 18, or 19 yet you are here chirping your input for 19. Have you at least played 19 recently?? I just don't see how your opinion or suggesting changes to the current game can be taken seriously when you are 5 years behind everyone else.
  • Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.
  • Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.
  • Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.

    Agreed. HUT has been mostly the same for a very long time and doesn't even have most of the options you find in other EA Sports games like Madden or FIFA.
  • Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.

    Because I saw what they did to EASHL since 15 and did nothing to it because they only cared about hut and extra money, not sure how you haven't seen that. Regarding 19 yes they tried this year to change it and try and appeal to the EASHL fans again finally, but imo they screwed up hey at least they tried, but you can't tell me they care more about Franchise mode and EASHL when neither mode gives them extra money from them, where they make their extra money is on hut and people are willing to pay them more money for that mode, only makes sense they're going to cater to that over any other mode, that's business.
  • WainGretSki
    3474 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.

    Because I saw what they did to EASHL since 15 and did nothing to it because they only cared about hut and extra money, not sure how you haven't seen that. Regarding 19 yes they tried this year to change it and try and appeal to the EASHL fans again finally, but imo they screwed up hey at least they tried, but you can't tell me they care more about Franchise mode and EASHL when neither mode gives them extra money from them, where they make their extra money is on hut and people are willing to pay them more money for that mode, only makes sense they're going to cater to that over any other mode, that's business.

    What is relevant, is where they put their resources. HUT is by far not the main focal point this year, or even the last few years.

    In 16 they added alot of team customizations for EASHL. This year they completely changed dropins and added all that gear and loot bags. They added 3s and Ones. They revamped a good portion of Franchise.

    What exactly did they change for HUT?


    [Socair - edited to remove baiting]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.

    Agreed. HUT has been mostly the same for a very long time and doesn't even have most of the options you find in other EA Sports games like Madden or FIFA.

    Exactly. The only love HUT has gotten is the new servers a couple weeks ago.
  • ChuckNorrisCup16
    140 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    Froommey wrote: »
    Just blows my mind how a game like Red dead or GTA can go for $80 and be good for 3-5 years, and NHL can release a new game every year and charge the same and even higher for the hut lunatics. At least with GTA and Red Dead their maps are huge and the amount of detail they put into it is worth the money, yet EA just reuses the same layout and changes some gameplay mechanics here and there, NHL games should be max $20-30 if they're going to bring a new one out every year.

    I guess you only want to watch a season of whatever sports every 3 to 5 years? Because it's really just the same thing each year. Just slightly different rosters. They still put the hours in. They still gotta pay wages.

    Red dead redemption will probably sell the same number of units that nhl does over those 3 to 5 years, so while annual purchaser's will technically spend more as a customer, overall the number of units sold will probably be roughly the same. So ya, annual release sucks, but for them as a company, they gotta pay the bills, and they won't make enough to justify making a hockey game every 3 to 5 years, as they'll only get one year's of sales when that release happens. If nhl sold the same numbers as rdr/GTA, they probably could get away with making a game every 3 to 5 years.

    Just how reality works.

    No that's how scamming people for more money works, and then they wonder why there sales are down, because people are sick and tired of paying that much every year for the same game.

    In this case about sales you are 100% right. Hut players help to keep this weaky, game in this format which we have now to get alive and not the sales. The incoming money gives this company right what they do, so they do not need to work much every year to make this game more atractive. Other mode players getting lesser from year to year. They need to know which way they want to continue or to go.

    Yup they only care about Hut because it gives them extra money, people are willing to spend extra money for it so EA caters to the Hut way more over any other game mode. I saw this starting in 15 and just continued after from what I saw, it was obvious they didn't care about EASHL anymore and were only concerned with Hut because it gave them more money. I get it from a business standpoint they found a way to make more money out of people so they concentrate on that mostly, not enough people spent money on boost slots back in the day for EASHL so they kind of gave up on that game mode, but they definitely rely on Hut now more then ever to make money.

    I don't know why you say stuff like this when HUT has for the most part been stagnant over the years. Auction house was a mess for who knows how many years.

    This year they put focus on Franchise and EASHL with all of its customizations and whatnot.

    Because I saw what they did to EASHL since 15 and did nothing to it because they only cared about hut and extra money, not sure how you haven't seen that. Regarding 19 yes they tried this year to change it and try and appeal to the EASHL fans again finally, but imo they screwed up hey at least they tried, but you can't tell me they care more about Franchise mode and EASHL when neither mode gives them extra money from them, where they make their extra money is on hut and people are willing to pay them more money for that mode, only makes sense they're going to cater to that over any other mode, that's business.

    What is relevant, is where they put their resources. HUT is by far not the main focal point this year, or even the last few years.

    In 16 they added alot of team customizations for EASHL. This year they completely changed dropins and added all that gear and loot bags. They added 3s and Ones. They revamped a good portion of Franchise.

    What exactly did they change for HUT?


    What exactly did they change for hut? In the last 3 years it looks like a lot, I don't remember it having legend players to upgrade, sets to get players, I don't remember it having weekly objectives, I don't remember it handing out collectible cards, I don't remember it having
    so many different types of cards for certain players, I don't remember it having more pack options to buy, I don't remember it having competitive seasons modes to play, I don't remember it having hut challenge games to play.

    Maybe you're just to accustomed to the way hut is now to realize where they have put their time in this game for the last 3-4 years, whether you want to acknowledge it or not people are constantly giving them more money for hut then the other game modes. Why do you think every month they add a new player to collect in hut, or a new set to complete, or weekly and daily new Competitive Seasons to play, because they cater to the hut that's where the money is, sorry you can't seem to figure that out. Are they changing anything in drop ins weekly? Are they changing anything in clubs weekly? Are they making it so you can get more bags by playing EASHL after max level to unlock your other stuff? No, they'd rather you go play some other mode instead of playing EASHL to get more bags, sucks for people who just want to play EASHL only and unlock the rest of their stuff, but point is they're doing things to hut daily and weekly, they're not doing that with EASHL.

    I've acknowledged they added more game modes and even said it was nice of them to do that, it's the main reason why I bought the game, finally they decided to care about the other players who play this game for once. But doesn't mean they don't care about a mode that gives them more money in the end.

    [Socair - edited to remove baiting]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • Froommey
    745 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I don’t expect anything from issue 20 too, they are not able to do minimum good work as to make good, correct Roster updates, adding missing player pics or spending work to add much more player likenesses. This should be basic for a good sport game beside the gameplay. If they are not willing to do, than let the community do this basic work.
  • It's much simpler than that, the game is a twisted wreck and not fun anymore. To frustrating.
  • twoorb
    52 posts Member
    edited February 2019
    I honestly think they should get rid of Tuners and make the tough design/gameplay decisions themselves and stick with them.

    Tuners are sort of an "out" that just gives the Dev group a pass on doing the hard work of making things right, in their vision, from the get go.

    The mainstream customer wants the best gameplay decisions made for them.
    That's part of what we are paying for.

    I want to spend time playing virtual hockey, not messing around endlessly with tuners and updates.

    [Socair - edited profanity short hand]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • Socair
    2002 posts Game Changer
    Hi guys. So in this thread too, I’ve removed and edited some posts for baiting or making off hand personal comments. Again, please be respectful of others’ opinions. Disagreeing is perfectly fine, just keep it about the topic and not about eachother.
    Thanks.
    NHL Series Game Changer & Volunteer Moderator
  • TheMajjam
    488 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Above1988 wrote: »
    It's no secret that the player base continues to dwindle each year. We just saw a recent spike on xbox around the 299,000 mark, but most of that was sale purchases for less than $20.... Just a few years ago, by this time of the year we would be closer 500,000, most of which who paid the full $60 price tag for the game, let alone the premium and presale editions with all the extras that come with it.

    Everybody has their reason on why the game is "trash" in one way or another, but there is a seriously glaring problem that the Devs (or most likely the EA bigwigs) overlook and fail to recognize:

    The "community" influences this game way too much.

    And by community, I'm not talking about the greater majority of players that you see sitting in Div 10 every year, the same player base that’s continuing to dwindle away, year after year…. I'm talking about the <1% of players who rant and rave on these forums, because they’re not winning every game, and the even lesser percentage of those privileged with the title of "gamechanger".

    So what happens is you have a very small group of players, who are altering the game according to their personal preference and play style, that the greater majority of players have to adhere to because EA is desperately trying to do anything and everything to give what (they think) everybody wants, all in effort to boost sales again. In other words: the inmates are literally running the asylum.

    The greater majority of players clearly just can’t keep up with the endless patches and tuners that are catered to the >1%, and why should they?? It’s literally a different game every two weeks! Any low-level business executive at EA should know that consistency is the key to success and there’s nothing consistent about this game, except for the drop in sales, year after year….

    It’s not just the forums but it’s also in-game as well. The fact that the hut marketplace is 100% controlled and mandated by the community is just abysmal. Just, WHY?! For a game mode that’s all about getting ahead by upgrading your team, it gets more difficult every year because the community determines what’s valuable and what isn’t in the marketplace. Yes, we have the free legend cards this year. The problem with that is now everyone has the exact same “ultimate team”, and there’s absolutely no incentive to buy packs or trade anymore because like every year, nothing is worth what it should be! The marketplace is worse than ever!

    How about specialty cards having minimum/maximum sell values?? How about introducing better packs with better pulls to actually give players reason to spend real money on? How bout standing behind your product with some productive rule and regulation, without catering to the demands of school children who aren't satisfied with their toy!?

    No because once again, you have a small group of players who are controlling all aspects of this game, and EA wonders where the sales are going??

    Yes, this is the growing trend/problem with allot of online games these days, but the effects are more pronounced when you have a small and niche player base like the NHL series. Everybody can see that EA took a step in the right direction with Apex legends dominating the scene right now, but they are continuing to ruin NHL (along with other AAA titles) for the true fanbases of these games.

    I don’t know what’s next for the NHL series. Maybe free to play, battle royale is the way to go but as of now its not looking good.

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.
  • langowski39
    71 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.

    Its the same in pretty much all fields. And thats the problem from outside we see EA as EA. What people need to realize EA is a umbrella company that controls divisions like EA Sports and studios like Respawn. EA the umbrella is pretty much the bored of directors and other business staff not related to game development. These people(who often have a book shelf full of leadership books by failed military officers) in this umbrella company are paid a lot of money to make a lot of money for investors. As a result many of them rely on polling data from the same Polling Companies that ABC CBS NBC and like use. Sure they many ask questions related to the Video Game Industry but be-sure they aren't about specific games. And if they are its for a reason unrelated to game-play. As a result they see a general tread in the population and then use that to set the vision across the entire division. So unless a development team can convince them of their vision for a game it will be very hard for them accomplish what they set out to do. Ever wonder why some features feel so convoluted in any game you can think of? Unless the developer intended it chances are some high level mucky mucky said "change that". And that could be anything from menu design,inventory handling, mechanics they don't like or forcing content to be cut(see Red Dead Redemption 2). People need to realize how much power a publisher can have on development team. The question is going to always be how much did they have? But unless someone is willing to break their NDAs I don't think we ever will in the case of NHL.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.

    Its the same in pretty much all fields. And thats the problem from outside we see EA as EA. What people need to realize EA is a umbrella company that controls divisions like EA Sports and studios like Respawn. EA the umbrella is pretty much the bored of directors and other business staff not related to game development. These people(who often have a book shelf full of leadership books by failed military officers) in this umbrella company are paid a lot of money to make a lot of money for investors. As a result many of them rely on polling data from the same Polling Companies that ABC CBS NBC and like use. Sure they many ask questions related to the Video Game Industry but be-sure they aren't about specific games. And if they are its for a reason unrelated to game-play. As a result they see a general tread in the population and then use that to set the vision across the entire division. So unless a development team can convince them of their vision for a game it will be very hard for them accomplish what they set out to do. Ever wonder why some features feel so convoluted in any game you can think of? Unless the developer intended it chances are some high level mucky mucky said "change that". And that could be anything from menu design,inventory handling, mechanics they don't like or forcing content to be cut(see Red Dead Redemption 2). People need to realize how much power a publisher can have on development team. The question is going to always be how much did they have? But unless someone is willing to break their NDAs I don't think we ever will in the case of NHL.

    I see what you're saying. EA's reputation for mismanaging development is well deserved, in my opinion. It's the whole cash cow and loot box mentality. I even want to blame the yearly iteration syndrome, but when you take a yearly game like The Show into account, not only doesn't seem like a complete package, it is reviewed well and universally enjoyed by the base.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.

    Its the same in pretty much all fields. And thats the problem from outside we see EA as EA. What people need to realize EA is a umbrella company that controls divisions like EA Sports and studios like Respawn. EA the umbrella is pretty much the bored of directors and other business staff not related to game development. These people(who often have a book shelf full of leadership books by failed military officers) in this umbrella company are paid a lot of money to make a lot of money for investors. As a result many of them rely on polling data from the same Polling Companies that ABC CBS NBC and like use. Sure they many ask questions related to the Video Game Industry but be-sure they aren't about specific games. And if they are its for a reason unrelated to game-play. As a result they see a general tread in the population and then use that to set the vision across the entire division. So unless a development team can convince them of their vision for a game it will be very hard for them accomplish what they set out to do. Ever wonder why some features feel so convoluted in any game you can think of? Unless the developer intended it chances are some high level mucky mucky said "change that". And that could be anything from menu design,inventory handling, mechanics they don't like or forcing content to be cut(see Red Dead Redemption 2). People need to realize how much power a publisher can have on development team. The question is going to always be how much did they have? But unless someone is willing to break their NDAs I don't think we ever will in the case of NHL.

    I see what you're saying. EA's reputation for mismanaging development is well deserved, in my opinion. It's the whole cash cow and loot box mentality. I even want to blame the yearly iteration syndrome, but when you take a yearly game like The Show into account, not only doesn't seem like a complete package, it is reviewed well and universally enjoyed by the base.

    The Show is one of Sonys Crown Jewels. That has to be a best sports game on the market because the Show is one of the games they use to show off the power of their console. While with EA they have an no Competition when it comes to games like NHL, and Madden that there is no real incentive to improve in other ways then they did with HUT which was just to improve cash flow. The market right now dictates there is no real reason for them to do anything else but stay the course. Unless the vast majority of people I have been seeing say that this will be the last NHL game they buy actually make good on their threat then I don't see why EA wouldn't be satisfied with 500k copies sold. Problem is a catch-22 though people could actually follow through and then EA could decide to kill the whole franchise leaving us with no hockey game. Its going to take an independent effort from outside a major publisher to produce a competitor. Even then unless this independent effort is both ok with losing money on a hockey game and specializing in sports simulation only then will we see competition. Honestly short of a John Henry giving David Kaemmer and the Papyrus guys 50 million dollars to develop iRacing I don't think we will ever see a competitor for a time to come.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • Froommey
    745 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.

    Its the same in pretty much all fields. And thats the problem from outside we see EA as EA. What people need to realize EA is a umbrella company that controls divisions like EA Sports and studios like Respawn. EA the umbrella is pretty much the bored of directors and other business staff not related to game development. These people(who often have a book shelf full of leadership books by failed military officers) in this umbrella company are paid a lot of money to make a lot of money for investors. As a result many of them rely on polling data from the same Polling Companies that ABC CBS NBC and like use. Sure they many ask questions related to the Video Game Industry but be-sure they aren't about specific games. And if they are its for a reason unrelated to game-play. As a result they see a general tread in the population and then use that to set the vision across the entire division. So unless a development team can convince them of their vision for a game it will be very hard for them accomplish what they set out to do. Ever wonder why some features feel so convoluted in any game you can think of? Unless the developer intended it chances are some high level mucky mucky said "change that". And that could be anything from menu design,inventory handling, mechanics they don't like or forcing content to be cut(see Red Dead Redemption 2). People need to realize how much power a publisher can have on development team. The question is going to always be how much did they have? But unless someone is willing to break their NDAs I don't think we ever will in the case of NHL.

    I see what you're saying. EA's reputation for mismanaging development is well deserved, in my opinion. It's the whole cash cow and loot box mentality. I even want to blame the yearly iteration syndrome, but when you take a yearly game like The Show into account, not only doesn't seem like a complete package, it is reviewed well and universally enjoyed by the base.

    The Show is one of Sonys Crown Jewels. That has to be a best sports game on the market because the Show is one of the games they use to show off the power of their console. While with EA they have an no Competition when it comes to games like NHL, and Madden that there is no real incentive to improve in other ways then they did with HUT which was just to improve cash flow. The market right now dictates there is no real reason for them to do anything else but stay the course. Unless the vast majority of people I have been seeing say that this will be the last NHL game they buy actually make good on their threat then I don't see why EA wouldn't be satisfied with 500k copies sold. Problem is a catch-22 though people could actually follow through and then EA could decide to kill the whole franchise leaving us with no hockey game. Its going to take an independent effort from outside a major publisher to produce a competitor. Even then unless this independent effort is both ok with losing money on a hockey game and specializing in sports simulation only then will we see competition. Honestly short of a John Henry giving David Kaemmer and the Papyrus guys 50 million dollars to develop iRacing I don't think we will ever see a competitor for a time to come.

    If they don't want to make, or not able to develop a quality game as customer wish it is better they stop producing NHL. Another company will try to do a better job. Maybe not for next season, but I am sure it will come.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    This is important right here because Respawn states that EA "had no hand" in the development of Apex Legends.

    Which begs the question, how much influence does EA have on NHL? Do the devs have the freedom of creative direction or not? I've criticized the devs in the past before, and regrettably admit not taking into account how much leverage publishers have over developers in a lot of instances.

    I should know better, because in the software defense industry, as a developer, the very same thing happens between customer (publisher) and dev.

    Its the same in pretty much all fields. And thats the problem from outside we see EA as EA. What people need to realize EA is a umbrella company that controls divisions like EA Sports and studios like Respawn. EA the umbrella is pretty much the bored of directors and other business staff not related to game development. These people(who often have a book shelf full of leadership books by failed military officers) in this umbrella company are paid a lot of money to make a lot of money for investors. As a result many of them rely on polling data from the same Polling Companies that ABC CBS NBC and like use. Sure they many ask questions related to the Video Game Industry but be-sure they aren't about specific games. And if they are its for a reason unrelated to game-play. As a result they see a general tread in the population and then use that to set the vision across the entire division. So unless a development team can convince them of their vision for a game it will be very hard for them accomplish what they set out to do. Ever wonder why some features feel so convoluted in any game you can think of? Unless the developer intended it chances are some high level mucky mucky said "change that". And that could be anything from menu design,inventory handling, mechanics they don't like or forcing content to be cut(see Red Dead Redemption 2). People need to realize how much power a publisher can have on development team. The question is going to always be how much did they have? But unless someone is willing to break their NDAs I don't think we ever will in the case of NHL.

    I see what you're saying. EA's reputation for mismanaging development is well deserved, in my opinion. It's the whole cash cow and loot box mentality. I even want to blame the yearly iteration syndrome, but when you take a yearly game like The Show into account, not only doesn't seem like a complete package, it is reviewed well and universally enjoyed by the base.

    The Show is one of Sonys Crown Jewels. That has to be a best sports game on the market because the Show is one of the games they use to show off the power of their console. While with EA they have an no Competition when it comes to games like NHL, and Madden that there is no real incentive to improve in other ways then they did with HUT which was just to improve cash flow. The market right now dictates there is no real reason for them to do anything else but stay the course. Unless the vast majority of people I have been seeing say that this will be the last NHL game they buy actually make good on their threat then I don't see why EA wouldn't be satisfied with 500k copies sold. Problem is a catch-22 though people could actually follow through and then EA could decide to kill the whole franchise leaving us with no hockey game. Its going to take an independent effort from outside a major publisher to produce a competitor. Even then unless this independent effort is both ok with losing money on a hockey game and specializing in sports simulation only then will we see competition. Honestly short of a John Henry giving David Kaemmer and the Papyrus guys 50 million dollars to develop iRacing I don't think we will ever see a competitor for a time to come.

    Agree wholeheartedly. If we could get a hockey game with the tender loving care that The Show gets annually, I would play nothing else for the year.
  • Comparisons to The Show and are not possible. That game allows people to play for fun and feel progression and a slow build. Currently, the HUT mode in this game (where it seems the majority of development time and updates are being aimed) is a brutal un-fun mess for anyone who isn't playing the game with a hardcore mindset. I've quickly reached the point where upgrading my team will either require me to do frequent micro-transactions, or I have to try to find a way to beat players online who have fully upgraded teams (and so far no games have even been close). Either of those is going to be an exercise in frustration that I'm not willing to try. Somehow I am even able to play Madden's MUT mode for free and have fun longer than I can in NHL... and that's sad, because I'd prefer to play hockey.

    What I don't understand is, why can there not be some kind of HUT style mode that is less cut throat? For a while I was able to play AI games and earn coins and cards, but that very quickly dries up and all that's left is playing games that are high difficulty against AI OR getting my face smashed by real players. I guess the message I'm hearing from the game is "there is no fun here for you. get good, pay us, or get out" and so I'm leaning towards the latter. Whoever is calling the shots here needs to realize that this approach is not the only way to get money out of players - I'd be happy to buy upgrades if I felt there was a mode I could use them in that was more casual and fun. The current approach is just going to drive the community to cannibalize itself until only the whales are left.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    I see what you're saying. EA's reputation for mismanaging development is well deserved, in my opinion. It's the whole cash cow and loot box mentality. I even want to blame the yearly iteration syndrome, but when you take a yearly game like The Show into account, not only doesn't seem like a complete package, it is reviewed well and universally enjoyed by the base.

    This has drastically changed since Battlefront 2. You can only buy cosmetic content and they gave away all DLC. The same goes for Battlefield V. NHL could have charged for customization, but did not. Apex is free. How much do you want to bet that future games will be the same? It's obvious they listened to the backlash about microtransactions and made big changes. People say they don't listen, but they seem to clearly have been doing that over the last year.

    The game as a whole has received updates. Except for Be A Pro. You can't say at all they only focus on HUT. Besides, who cares if people spend money on it? Without making money this game would die. You should be thankful for the people that drop money on HUT. It's clear to see that is funding changes to other modes as well.

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