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Fix the trip stick/Glass ankles

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  • NHLDev wrote: »
    RSO75 wrote: »
    What I find interesting is the poke check never generates a penalty on a player who is away from the puck, you can RB button them up and down the ice and they don't fall. Like the OP stated, once they are within a playable distance of the puck, they get glass ankles.

    That is done by design. It isn't physics driven so by design, the mechanic only impacts puck carriers or those actively making a play on the puck (i.e. picking it up)

    Good day @NHLDev dev,

    Can you look into, or explain, why when I race to a loose puck against an opponent, and I poke check the loose puck too many times I get a tripping call. From what I can see, at the time I poke, possession is still not established, yet I get a tripping call. I have seen this too many times along the boards. Don't recall this happening on open ice away from the boards. It's as if my poke registers exactly at the same time the opponent picks up the puck, which doesn't make sense because by poking my stick length should be further than my opponent simply picking up the puck.

    Maybe I just don't understand something about the mechanics around it.

    Thank-you.
  • jdyod91nbn01.jpg
    Don't worry ea the Ai can just reach through players stick lift from impossible angles and grab and hold you 10 feet from the boards. The Ai also doesn't need to face the proper way to intercept passes that are behind him. He just rotates his arm so it's behind his back to intercept the pass.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    NHLDev wrote: »
    RSO75 wrote: »
    What I find interesting is the poke check never generates a penalty on a player who is away from the puck, you can RB button them up and down the ice and they don't fall. Like the OP stated, once they are within a playable distance of the puck, they get glass ankles.

    That is done by design. It isn't physics driven so by design, the mechanic only impacts puck carriers or those actively making a play on the puck (i.e. picking it up)

    Good day @NHLDev dev,

    Can you look into, or explain, why when I race to a loose puck against an opponent, and I poke check the loose puck too many times I get a tripping call. From what I can see, at the time I poke, possession is still not established, yet I get a tripping call. I have seen this too many times along the boards. Don't recall this happening on open ice away from the boards. It's as if my poke registers exactly at the same time the opponent picks up the puck, which doesn't make sense because by poking my stick length should be further than my opponent simply picking up the puck.

    Maybe I just don't understand something about the mechanics around it.

    Thank-you.

    I have an issue logged to look at in regards to why in loose puck cases, we get the lunging pokes at times rather than the same pokes you get when the puck is possessed. I believe they don't track as well because they are slower. So personally, I tend to poke a bit earlier when the puck is loose to make the adjustment for it.

    For the trips, it doesn't matter if the puck was possessed when you started the action it just matters if the player has or is getting possession when the stick triggers a trip. It would be the same logic everywhere but just may be more common near the boards as it is a frame of reference and likely place to be picking up loose pucks.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    RSO75 wrote: »
    What I find interesting is the poke check never generates a penalty on a player who is away from the puck, you can RB button them up and down the ice and they don't fall. Like the OP stated, once they are within a playable distance of the puck, they get glass ankles.

    That is done by design. It isn't physics driven so by design, the mechanic only impacts puck carriers or those actively making a play on the puck (i.e. picking it up)

    Good day @NHLDev dev,

    Can you look into, or explain, why when I race to a loose puck against an opponent, and I poke check the loose puck too many times I get a tripping call. From what I can see, at the time I poke, possession is still not established, yet I get a tripping call. I have seen this too many times along the boards. Don't recall this happening on open ice away from the boards. It's as if my poke registers exactly at the same time the opponent picks up the puck, which doesn't make sense because by poking my stick length should be further than my opponent simply picking up the puck.

    Maybe I just don't understand something about the mechanics around it.

    Thank-you.

    I have an issue logged to look at in regards to why in loose puck cases, we get the lunging pokes at times rather than the same pokes you get when the puck is possessed. I believe they don't track as well because they are slower. So personally, I tend to poke a bit earlier when the puck is loose to make the adjustment for it.

    For the trips, it doesn't matter if the puck was possessed when you started the action it just matters if the player has or is getting possession when the stick triggers a trip. It would be the same logic everywhere but just may be more common near the boards as it is a frame of reference and likely place to be picking up loose pucks.

    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

  • Glass ankles caused me to stop playing this game since Christmas. I can tell you that my blood pressure as gone down dramatically haha tripping has RUINED the game. ImPersonally, I’m hoping for a Madden game that calls holding penalties every other play. I wonder how that will go over? What’s shocking is that this poke/tripping mechanism isn’t how the real NHL is played but they just decided that this game would be a trip fest? Why choose that route over body checking when you’re developing this game? When you any watch hockey game is it a trip fest? Guys flying in air from a graze of the skate?
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

    Exactly. In my logic, he should not get a triggered trip because he is going to get the puck. It should only be when he has possession, or within maybe a few frames, say 3 or 4 imo. Like when a puck carrier is coming towards you, it is very clear when and how a trip is triggered as he has clear possession.

    From a programming perspective it now makes sense to me as I get the mechanics behind it. However, from a logical perspective, I find it should be cleaned up a bit. Maybe narrow the window by a few frames before the pickup. Seems like the window is a little too large, but that could just be my opinion. It makes it really hard to fight for a "loose" puck when in actuality, the way it is programmed, it isn't all that loose of a puck after all. What determines who is in fact, about to get the puck, or that pickup animation?

    I find it kind of hard to accept that I am making contact with their legs when in fact I am angled and aimed at the puck and possession isn't yet established. The one initiating a puck pickup is almost always guaranteed to have his legs in the way of your stick as both players are in relatively close distance to the loose puck. Also seems like a puck chop would be more effective as these never trigger a trip regardless of circumstance.

    Anyways, thanks for the explanation and at least now I have a clearer understanding of how I need to approach a loose puck where a battle may ensue for possession. Thanks for your time.
  • Glass ankles caused me to stop playing this game since Christmas. I can tell you that my blood pressure as gone down dramatically haha tripping has RUINED the game. ImPersonally, I’m hoping for a Madden game that calls holding penalties every other play. I wonder how that will go over? What’s shocking is that this poke/tripping mechanism isn’t how the real NHL is played but they just decided that this game would be a trip fest? Why choose that route over body checking when you’re developing this game? When you any watch hockey game is it a trip fest? Guys flying in air from a graze of the skate?

    So just as a theory, younger players are learning to defend with sticks now a days. Body checking is diminishing. That's a fact. Probably a league trend, due to concussion issues, as well as the dying breed of non skilled players. Now I grew up with big hits and making hits as a primary defence, but that isn't the case anymore. Perhaps EA is / was trying to reflect that.
  • I hear what you’re saying but it’s not a mechanism that exists in real life. I’m surprised they have gone this route and made the game a trip fest.
  • The game is pure fantasy. Too arcade like. Online users turbo tapping poke check and stick lift is quickly ruining the experience for me. Poke check has come somewhat under control with penalties being called but still a mile away from being anywhere near realistic. Stick lift is the new abused defensive feature even when you have a full stride on a defender and somehow they’re able
    To stick lift from behind with ease. Goalies are a whole other ball game. They’re either letting anything and everything thru or they’re literally standing on their heads making one great save after another. Truly very little middle ground. Hitting is also exaggerated. Slightest nudge and you’re separated from the puck. I’ve weathered the storm
    In online okay and win 70+% of the games I play. I’ve even had to keep
    Games close intentionally because 2 or more goal lead and the opponent quits. It’s really a game ripe for trolls.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    The game is pure fantasy. Too arcade like. Online users turbo tapping poke check and stick lift is quickly ruining the experience for me. Poke check has come somewhat under control with penalties being called but still a mile away from being anywhere near realistic. Stick lift is the new abused defensive feature even when you have a full stride on a defender and somehow they’re able
    To stick lift from behind with ease. Goalies are a whole other ball game. They’re either letting anything and everything thru or they’re literally standing on their heads making one great save after another. Truly very little middle ground. Hitting is also exaggerated. Slightest nudge and you’re separated from the puck. I’ve weathered the storm
    In online okay and win 70+% of the games I play. I’ve even had to keep
    Games close intentionally because 2 or more goal lead and the opponent quits. It’s really a game ripe for trolls.

    This makes no sense. You say goalies let in anything or they're standing on their heads, yet you are purposely keeping it close. So, you're not trying to score at times and if you get a couple goals up, you start letting them score on you? It's incredibly rare I see someone quit on a 2 goal lead. It's more common with 3 and even then most people still stick around.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

    Exactly. In my logic, he should not get a triggered trip because he is going to get the puck. It should only be when he has possession, or within maybe a few frames, say 3 or 4 imo. Like when a puck carrier is coming towards you, it is very clear when and how a trip is triggered as he has clear possession.

    From a programming perspective it now makes sense to me as I get the mechanics behind it. However, from a logical perspective, I find it should be cleaned up a bit. Maybe narrow the window by a few frames before the pickup. Seems like the window is a little too large, but that could just be my opinion. It makes it really hard to fight for a "loose" puck when in actuality, the way it is programmed, it isn't all that loose of a puck after all. What determines who is in fact, about to get the puck, or that pickup animation?

    I find it kind of hard to accept that I am making contact with their legs when in fact I am angled and aimed at the puck and possession isn't yet established. The one initiating a puck pickup is almost always guaranteed to have his legs in the way of your stick as both players are in relatively close distance to the loose puck. Also seems like a puck chop would be more effective as these never trigger a trip regardless of circumstance.

    Anyways, thanks for the explanation and at least now I have a clearer understanding of how I need to approach a loose puck where a battle may ensue for possession. Thanks for your time.

    My man Wain! We should hangout sometime, we see this game (or at least many parts of it) the same man. It logically makes zero sense to punish me for poking a puck that visually isn’t in possession because it’s “in possession” behind the scenes through the “seamless” pickup feature. As a gamer in general, I would never expect to be punished for something I can’t visually define as “dangerous” you know? If I see an enemy in a shooter with a knife, his priority goes down for me if I’m at a large distance right? Now imagine my shock when that enemy throws his knife 350 yards and kills me...that’s what these “tripping” penalties feel like when racing for a loose puck. I think I’m not alone when I say that the board battles and puck battles in this game are severely lacking. Between these wonky trips or a “perfectly” timed SPP that makes me miss the pickup and accelerate away from the puck leaving my team out to dry, there’s just a real immersion-breaking experience in these scenarios that could use some much needed TLC.

    SPP’s are still like TPS to me, I will never see them as useful nor practical or enjoyful when trying to play a video game. Too much wonkiness, too little control, too much inconsistency and not enough predictable outcomes for me to enjoy as a gamer. I know there’s a need for unpredictability and randomness in a true sim, but at some point you have to draw the line between sim and enjoyment, I feel like SPP’s cross that line and negativity affect my experience. I remember reading that these animations had been “fixed” in the GI interview before the launch f this game, but I can’t genuinely say I notice a difference. They lead to so many own-goals or rebounds off your own goalie that get tapped in, that it just makes the net battles as a defenseman really not enjoyable, and I assume SPPs are the culprit behind our wonky trip scenarios we’re describing here which makes me believe these are even more detrimental than I previously thought.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

    Exactly. In my logic, he should not get a triggered trip because he is going to get the puck. It should only be when he has possession, or within maybe a few frames, say 3 or 4 imo. Like when a puck carrier is coming towards you, it is very clear when and how a trip is triggered as he has clear possession.

    From a programming perspective it now makes sense to me as I get the mechanics behind it. However, from a logical perspective, I find it should be cleaned up a bit. Maybe narrow the window by a few frames before the pickup. Seems like the window is a little too large, but that could just be my opinion. It makes it really hard to fight for a "loose" puck when in actuality, the way it is programmed, it isn't all that loose of a puck after all. What determines who is in fact, about to get the puck, or that pickup animation?

    I find it kind of hard to accept that I am making contact with their legs when in fact I am angled and aimed at the puck and possession isn't yet established. The one initiating a puck pickup is almost always guaranteed to have his legs in the way of your stick as both players are in relatively close distance to the loose puck. Also seems like a puck chop would be more effective as these never trigger a trip regardless of circumstance.

    Anyways, thanks for the explanation and at least now I have a clearer understanding of how I need to approach a loose puck where a battle may ensue for possession. Thanks for your time.

    My man Wain! We should hangout sometime, we see this game (or at least many parts of it) the same man. It logically makes zero sense to punish me for poking a puck that visually isn’t in possession because it’s “in possession” behind the scenes through the “seamless” pickup feature. As a gamer in general, I would never expect to be punished for something I can’t visually define as “dangerous” you know? If I see an enemy in a shooter with a knife, his priority goes down for me if I’m at a large distance right? Now imagine my shock when that enemy throws his knife 350 yards and kills me...that’s what these “tripping” penalties feel like when racing for a loose puck. I think I’m not alone when I say that the board battles and puck battles in this game are severely lacking. Between these wonky trips or a “perfectly” timed SPP that makes me miss the pickup and accelerate away from the puck leaving my team out to dry, there’s just a real immersion-breaking experience in these scenarios that could use some much needed TLC.

    SPP’s are still like TPS to me, I will never see them as useful nor practical or enjoyful when trying to play a video game. Too much wonkiness, too little control, too much inconsistency and not enough predictable outcomes for me to enjoy as a gamer. I know there’s a need for unpredictability and randomness in a true sim, but at some point you have to draw the line between sim and enjoyment, I feel like SPP’s cross that line and negativity affect my experience. I remember reading that these animations had been “fixed” in the GI interview before the launch f this game, but I can’t genuinely say I notice a difference. They lead to so many own-goals or rebounds off your own goalie that get tapped in, that it just makes the net battles as a defenseman really not enjoyable, and I assume SPPs are the culprit behind our wonky trip scenarios we’re describing here which makes me believe these are even more detrimental than I previously thought.

    Very nicely said. I fully agree with pretty much your whole post.

    I too really hate SPP and find that they in fact hinder me more than they help. I would rather all the animations come from the hands to move the stick as necessary to pick up the puck, or the animations be also limited to the skates. Such as kicking the puck towards your stick to help pick it up. I really despise have a follow through animation while I am picking the puck up, especially as you wisely pointed out, when I am forced to skate towards my goalie and the SPP just pushes right through into my goalie. You basically perfectly described how I feel about SPP.

    And yes, board play is so due for an update. It literally feels 10 years old in a brand new game. I also hate how hard it is to clear your own zone on a PK because the opposing D man at the blue simply taps the puck down to the ice, even if it's a slapper.

    There is a pretty decent foundation to this game but there are quite a few of the "little things" that definitely need some TLC, as you say.

    If you are on PS4 I am down to hangout anytime. I am always down to play with or against like-minded players. I only play EASHL so if you are on the same console and wish to smack some rubber around, shoot me a pm with your info and I'll gladly add you to my contacts.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

    Exactly. In my logic, he should not get a triggered trip because he is going to get the puck. It should only be when he has possession, or within maybe a few frames, say 3 or 4 imo. Like when a puck carrier is coming towards you, it is very clear when and how a trip is triggered as he has clear possession.

    From a programming perspective it now makes sense to me as I get the mechanics behind it. However, from a logical perspective, I find it should be cleaned up a bit. Maybe narrow the window by a few frames before the pickup. Seems like the window is a little too large, but that could just be my opinion. It makes it really hard to fight for a "loose" puck when in actuality, the way it is programmed, it isn't all that loose of a puck after all. What determines who is in fact, about to get the puck, or that pickup animation?

    I find it kind of hard to accept that I am making contact with their legs when in fact I am angled and aimed at the puck and possession isn't yet established. The one initiating a puck pickup is almost always guaranteed to have his legs in the way of your stick as both players are in relatively close distance to the loose puck. Also seems like a puck chop would be more effective as these never trigger a trip regardless of circumstance.

    Anyways, thanks for the explanation and at least now I have a clearer understanding of how I need to approach a loose puck where a battle may ensue for possession. Thanks for your time.

    My man Wain! We should hangout sometime, we see this game (or at least many parts of it) the same man. It logically makes zero sense to punish me for poking a puck that visually isn’t in possession because it’s “in possession” behind the scenes through the “seamless” pickup feature. As a gamer in general, I would never expect to be punished for something I can’t visually define as “dangerous” you know? If I see an enemy in a shooter with a knife, his priority goes down for me if I’m at a large distance right? Now imagine my shock when that enemy throws his knife 350 yards and kills me...that’s what these “tripping” penalties feel like when racing for a loose puck. I think I’m not alone when I say that the board battles and puck battles in this game are severely lacking. Between these wonky trips or a “perfectly” timed SPP that makes me miss the pickup and accelerate away from the puck leaving my team out to dry, there’s just a real immersion-breaking experience in these scenarios that could use some much needed TLC.

    SPP’s are still like TPS to me, I will never see them as useful nor practical or enjoyful when trying to play a video game. Too much wonkiness, too little control, too much inconsistency and not enough predictable outcomes for me to enjoy as a gamer. I know there’s a need for unpredictability and randomness in a true sim, but at some point you have to draw the line between sim and enjoyment, I feel like SPP’s cross that line and negativity affect my experience. I remember reading that these animations had been “fixed” in the GI interview before the launch f this game, but I can’t genuinely say I notice a difference. They lead to so many own-goals or rebounds off your own goalie that get tapped in, that it just makes the net battles as a defenseman really not enjoyable, and I assume SPPs are the culprit behind our wonky trip scenarios we’re describing here which makes me believe these are even more detrimental than I previously thought.

    Very nicely said. I fully agree with pretty much your whole post.

    I too really hate SPP and find that they in fact hinder me more than they help. I would rather all the animations come from the hands to move the stick as necessary to pick up the puck, or the animations be also limited to the skates. Such as kicking the puck towards your stick to help pick it up. I really despise have a follow through animation while I am picking the puck up, especially as you wisely pointed out, when I am forced to skate towards my goalie and the SPP just pushes right through into my goalie. You basically perfectly described how I feel about SPP.

    And yes, board play is so due for an update. It literally feels 10 years old in a brand new game. I also hate how hard it is to clear your own zone on a PK because the opposing D man at the blue simply taps the puck down to the ice, even if it's a slapper.

    There is a pretty decent foundation to this game but there are quite a few of the "little things" that definitely need some TLC, as you say.

    If you are on PS4 I am down to hangout anytime. I am always down to play with or against like-minded players. I only play EASHL so if you are on the same console and wish to smack some rubber around, shoot me a pm with your info and I'll gladly add you to my contacts.

    The better way to look at it is that you should never think it is safe to pokecheck through someones legs to get the puck. You should always try and pokecheck when you have a direct path to the puck and if you are going to collide with a leg, you could trip them.

    As for the seamless puck pickups. They were actually designed to give more control. We have learned from the feature and are taking that into account in future design choices. If you didn't have turning or stopping pickups, you would still be forced to skate into your goalie with the traditional pickup system as it locks you into a glide during the extent of the pickup animation and releases you as you blend out. With the seamless pickups, it at least takes the gesture on the controller as you have asked and allows you to turn through the pickup or stop as you are picking up. So the best thing to do on a puck in front of your own goalie if you want to pick it up vs clear it with a chop or poke to the corner is to roll through the puck or press the other way to initiate a turn or a stop.

    But as I said, we know where we can improve that system and would want it to be more in tune with the control we now have with the new skating system and will look to do better things moving forward that always take adding more control and responsiveness for our players as a main objective.
  • . I also hate how hard it is to clear your own zone on a PK because the opposing D man at the blue simply taps the puck down to the ice, even if it's a slapper.

    You really have to lob it, it works way better. But yes, it is ridiculous how Ds can block slappers on the board like it's a badminton shuttlecock...Also been there for like 10 years.

  • titomahawk wrote: »
    . I also hate how hard it is to clear your own zone on a PK because the opposing D man at the blue simply taps the puck down to the ice, even if it's a slapper.

    You really have to lob it, it works way better. But yes, it is ridiculous how D's can block slappers on the board like it's a badminton shuttlecock...Also been there for like 10 years.

    Yea, true, a really high lob does work. Problem for me is, it isn't consistent. For some reason some lobs do not go that high and of course an AI D man turns into Michael Jordan and leaps up 4 feet to grab it. I also hate how super easy it is to lob over the glass instead of off the glass.

    Main issue is though, as you said, the ease in which the computer can simply knock a slapper to the ground needs to be looked at.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Well I time my poke so that by the time I reach full reaching distance I should be touching the puck. Yet, it's as if regardless of my timing, my opponent still picks up the puck and thus I get triggered a tripping penalty. I am using purely R1 and not lunging with R3. Even then, logic should dictate that my reach is further than the opponent who is only initiating a puck pickup animation, unless this is where I am wrong.

    I don't know if this changes your response or not, but I am not fully sure I get what you are explaining. I think you are saying that in some cases we get a lunging animation instead of a straight up R1 poke like we normally get when a puck is in possession? Also, are you saying that if a player has initiated a puck pickup animation, it is treated as full possession and triggers a trip even though the puck is not yet in his possession?

    Thanks for your time.
    Yes, that is what I mean. If they are in the middle of making a play for the puck we start counting the logic for tripping. And yes, I am saying that on a loose puck, it will sometimes play a lunging poke that takes longer so the timing is a bit different in my eyes than when it is possessed. That is what I would want to unify.

    You are just expecting a non call because they don't have full possession yet, even though you are making contact with their legs?

    Exactly. In my logic, he should not get a triggered trip because he is going to get the puck. It should only be when he has possession, or within maybe a few frames, say 3 or 4 imo. Like when a puck carrier is coming towards you, it is very clear when and how a trip is triggered as he has clear possession.

    From a programming perspective it now makes sense to me as I get the mechanics behind it. However, from a logical perspective, I find it should be cleaned up a bit. Maybe narrow the window by a few frames before the pickup. Seems like the window is a little too large, but that could just be my opinion. It makes it really hard to fight for a "loose" puck when in actuality, the way it is programmed, it isn't all that loose of a puck after all. What determines who is in fact, about to get the puck, or that pickup animation?

    I find it kind of hard to accept that I am making contact with their legs when in fact I am angled and aimed at the puck and possession isn't yet established. The one initiating a puck pickup is almost always guaranteed to have his legs in the way of your stick as both players are in relatively close distance to the loose puck. Also seems like a puck chop would be more effective as these never trigger a trip regardless of circumstance.

    Anyways, thanks for the explanation and at least now I have a clearer understanding of how I need to approach a loose puck where a battle may ensue for possession. Thanks for your time.

    My man Wain! We should hangout sometime, we see this game (or at least many parts of it) the same man. It logically makes zero sense to punish me for poking a puck that visually isn’t in possession because it’s “in possession” behind the scenes through the “seamless” pickup feature. As a gamer in general, I would never expect to be punished for something I can’t visually define as “dangerous” you know? If I see an enemy in a shooter with a knife, his priority goes down for me if I’m at a large distance right? Now imagine my shock when that enemy throws his knife 350 yards and kills me...that’s what these “tripping” penalties feel like when racing for a loose puck. I think I’m not alone when I say that the board battles and puck battles in this game are severely lacking. Between these wonky trips or a “perfectly” timed SPP that makes me miss the pickup and accelerate away from the puck leaving my team out to dry, there’s just a real immersion-breaking experience in these scenarios that could use some much needed TLC.

    SPP’s are still like TPS to me, I will never see them as useful nor practical or enjoyful when trying to play a video game. Too much wonkiness, too little control, too much inconsistency and not enough predictable outcomes for me to enjoy as a gamer. I know there’s a need for unpredictability and randomness in a true sim, but at some point you have to draw the line between sim and enjoyment, I feel like SPP’s cross that line and negativity affect my experience. I remember reading that these animations had been “fixed” in the GI interview before the launch f this game, but I can’t genuinely say I notice a difference. They lead to so many own-goals or rebounds off your own goalie that get tapped in, that it just makes the net battles as a defenseman really not enjoyable, and I assume SPPs are the culprit behind our wonky trip scenarios we’re describing here which makes me believe these are even more detrimental than I previously thought.

    Very nicely said. I fully agree with pretty much your whole post.

    I too really hate SPP and find that they in fact hinder me more than they help. I would rather all the animations come from the hands to move the stick as necessary to pick up the puck, or the animations be also limited to the skates. Such as kicking the puck towards your stick to help pick it up. I really despise have a follow through animation while I am picking the puck up, especially as you wisely pointed out, when I am forced to skate towards my goalie and the SPP just pushes right through into my goalie. You basically perfectly described how I feel about SPP.

    And yes, board play is so due for an update. It literally feels 10 years old in a brand new game. I also hate how hard it is to clear your own zone on a PK because the opposing D man at the blue simply taps the puck down to the ice, even if it's a slapper.

    There is a pretty decent foundation to this game but there are quite a few of the "little things" that definitely need some TLC, as you say.

    If you are on PS4 I am down to hangout anytime. I am always down to play with or against like-minded players. I only play EASHL so if you are on the same console and wish to smack some rubber around, shoot me a pm with your info and I'll gladly add you to my contacts.

    The better way to look at it is that you should never think it is safe to pokecheck through someones legs to get the puck. You should always try and pokecheck when you have a direct path to the puck and if you are going to collide with a leg, you could trip them.

    As for the seamless puck pickups. They were actually designed to give more control. We have learned from the feature and are taking that into account in future design choices. If you didn't have turning or stopping pickups, you would still be forced to skate into your goalie with the traditional pickup system as it locks you into a glide during the extent of the pickup animation and releases you as you blend out. With the seamless pickups, it at least takes the gesture on the controller as you have asked and allows you to turn through the pickup or stop as you are picking up. So the best thing to do on a puck in front of your own goalie if you want to pick it up vs clear it with a chop or poke to the corner is to roll through the puck or press the other way to initiate a turn or a stop.

    But as I said, we know where we can improve that system and would want it to be more in tune with the control we now have with the new skating system and will look to do better things moving forward that always take adding more control and responsiveness for our players as a main objective.

    Well, sure there are times where I am poking regardless where the opponent is because in my mind you can't trip a player without the puck. We went over it and it makes sense to me from a programming perspective. However, I see exactly what you mean, but there are many times where a player simply has to cross over into your stick and he gets tripped. When both players are so close trying to get the puck, it is impossible to react and let go of the poke before a trip can be called. For the time being I will adjust my approach to lose pucks.

    Happy to hear that you guys are looking to improve control and responsiveness to SPP and quite honestly, it is required and the game will definitely benefit from it. I also have a bit of trouble with SPP in the sense where I want to turn or stop as I pick up the puck. Say you are cutting hard right towards the puck, but you want to go left as you pick it up. The issue is it isn't always easy to jam your LS hard left just before you pick up the puck to initiate a left turn SPP. There are times where you can't turn or pull back just prior to picking up the puck cause you may over skate the puck. This is the type of situation where SPP irks me. Maybe it's me, or I need to work more and/or experiment more with it.

    Quite honestly, it is mostly just little things here and there that irk me in this game. I believe there really is a good foundation and absolutely love RPM vs TPS. So relieved TPS is gone, so, excellent work right there. If the little things here and there could be polished up or fixed, I wouldn't have very many things to complain about in all honesty.

    I appreciate your time and feedback and keep up the good work. You guys are getting there and I for one appreciate your team's effort. It's also nice to know what you guys intend to look at and possibly fix over time.
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