EA Forums - Banner

Gameplay Updates Based on Beta Tuner Rollback Feedback

Replies

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I'm gonna stop responding now. But I just have one thing I'd like to touch on:
    In real hockey there are about 200 passes a game...In real hockey the game lasts for almost 3 hours. We play a 20 minute simulation.

    Yeah, look it's obvious we have different views on what the game is and how it should be played. There's just no point having this discussion. I mean, like I said, I play every mode, I know there are some difference with how each one "plays".

    But whether you play HUT or VS or EASHL, it's still hockey and the same principles apply. If you disagree with that, that's fine.

    Hey thats fine at least you were civil and thoughtful about things unlike most people and we all have our opinions and thoughts on how we want the game to play or how it currently plays and thats all I was trying to share in this feedback thread.

    If you are on twitter there was a guy who I know from the community that has similar feelings about I.C. he could probably explain it better or more in detail to you how most of the 6v6 community feels about it. He actually tweeted about it recently.

  • I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    This game will always have areas to exploit. That's just the way it is. And there is positively no way to satisfy everyone. What I want is consistency. Put out a finished product. Even if that means a scaled back NHL 20, I'm for the bigger picture. Let the developers know that 2021 is the year, and give them more beta testing to make a proper game. But I will buy NHL 20, and play and be marginally happy if online gaming is stable and just the outlandish elements get refined.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    The question should be what the players want, and not what EA wants. Who is EA making the game for? The game is currently fairly arcade, and it seems many people are not happy with the game. And they've even made more arcade versions of the game, like the threes, all they had to do was tune a few things and it was 'good' to go. But I doubt much people bother with that game mode after the first day or two when initial novelty wore out. Most havent bothered at all, I wager. I doubt that mode has attracted many casuals either?

    People want to play ice-hockey like it is in the NHL, period. This game is so far from simulation in its current form that it's not worth even talking about. Think about all the automated features, lack of stick on x collisions, physics etc. And most features feel outdated, even I can see that and I've only played this game seriously on the current gen. I wonder how do the people who played this game since the beginning of this franchise feel about its current form?

    I think people want more realistic control over their player, and if this means the game gets more like a simulation, then I am all for it. Casual gamers could have fun even with a more advanced game, if there are other casual gamers to play with, sure. But even with the current form, I very much suspect it takes only a minute to turn them off the game, when they face a player who knows how this game is played and knows how to exploit the game. And are casual gamers really the ones EA needs to attract? I doubt casual gamers are ready to invest real money (or grind the seasons and challenges) in HUT, or participate in EASHL club seasons? This game needs more die-hard EA NHL fans, not casual gamers, I feel. Or maybe my definition of casual gamer is different from yours? Besides, I fear this game is already in the niche, at least in comparison to more popular sports & sports games?


  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    The question should be what the players want, and not what EA wants. Who is EA making the game for? The game is currently fairly arcade, and it seems many people are not happy with the game. And they've even made more arcade versions of the game, like the threes, all they had to do was tune a few things and it was 'good' to go. But I doubt much people bother with that game mode after the first day or two when initial novelty wore out. Most havent bothered at all, I wager. I doubt that mode has attracted many casuals either?

    People want to play ice-hockey like it is in the NHL, period. This game is so far from simulation in its current form that it's not worth even talking about. Think about all the automated features, lack of stick on x collisions, physics etc. And most features feel outdated, even I can see that and I've only played this game seriously on the current gen. I wonder how do the people who played this game since the beginning of this franchise feel about its current form?

    I think people want more realistic control over their player, and if this means the game gets more like a simulation, then I am all for it. Casual gamers could have fun even with a more advanced game, if there are other casual gamers to play with, sure. But even with the current form, I very much suspect it takes only a minute to turn them off the game, when they face a player who knows how this game is played and knows how to exploit the game. And are casual gamers really the ones EA needs to attract? I doubt casual gamers are ready to invest real money (or grind the seasons and challenges) in HUT, or participate in EASHL club seasons? This game needs more die-hard EA NHL fans, not casual gamers, I feel. Or maybe my definition of casual gamer is different from yours? Besides, I fear this game is already in the niche, at least in comparison to more popular sports & sports games?


    I agree for the most part.

    I wouldn't say the game is too simulation, or too arcade, or not enough of either. I think it is the balance between arcade and simulation that doesn't work. Take for example, the LT ballerina skaters. Hard pill to swallow when the skating is aimed more towards a realistic side. Even the best NHL skaters could not pull this off.

    Another issue is, every forward wants to dangle and bully his way to the net. He wants to score. Every D man wants to smash forwards into the boards, intercept every pass, and have precise clappers form the blue line. Every goalie wants a shutout. Well, I exaggerate a little, but this is more or less how it is.

    So basically, no one will ever be fully happy if everyone gets what they want. It doesn't make sense and is not possible.

    I just want snappy and responsive control over my skater, AI goalies to have more logic, less predictable rebounds, and not be able to squirm your way around all over the ice because you can spazz LT.

    This series should be aiming primarily at hockey fans and not at gaming fans. The casual gamer is not a long time contributor of this game. Their attention span is much shorter than a true hockey fan. Along those lines, hockey purists want more stats, more player likeness in Franchise modes.

    There is a user here that every single year makes the same posts. He will post dozens of pictures that show jersey errors. IMO, the jerseys he points out are at least 95% accurate, but he sees those errors. He can even say that it isn't exactly the right shade of orange... I am not putting him down or making fun of him, but rather, I am showing the level of detail he expects. That isn't a casual gamer. He is obviously a hockey purist. This just shows the level of diversity each customer expects of this franchise.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    The question should be what the players want, and not what EA wants. Who is EA making the game for? The game is currently fairly arcade, and it seems many people are not happy with the game. And they've even made more arcade versions of the game, like the threes, all they had to do was tune a few things and it was 'good' to go. But I doubt much people bother with that game mode after the first day or two when initial novelty wore out. Most havent bothered at all, I wager. I doubt that mode has attracted many casuals either?

    People want to play ice-hockey like it is in the NHL, period. This game is so far from simulation in its current form that it's not worth even talking about. Think about all the automated features, lack of stick on x collisions, physics etc. And most features feel outdated, even I can see that and I've only played this game seriously on the current gen. I wonder how do the people who played this game since the beginning of this franchise feel about its current form?

    I think people want more realistic control over their player, and if this means the game gets more like a simulation, then I am all for it. Casual gamers could have fun even with a more advanced game, if there are other casual gamers to play with, sure. But even with the current form, I very much suspect it takes only a minute to turn them off the game, when they face a player who knows how this game is played and knows how to exploit the game. And are casual gamers really the ones EA needs to attract? I doubt casual gamers are ready to invest real money (or grind the seasons and challenges) in HUT, or participate in EASHL club seasons? This game needs more die-hard EA NHL fans, not casual gamers, I feel. Or maybe my definition of casual gamer is different from yours? Besides, I fear this game is already in the niche, at least in comparison to more popular sports & sports games?


    I agree for the most part.

    I wouldn't say the game is too simulation, or too arcade, or not enough of either. I think it is the balance between arcade and simulation that doesn't work. Take for example, the LT ballerina skaters. Hard pill to swallow when the skating is aimed more towards a realistic side. Even the best NHL skaters could not pull this off.

    Another issue is, every forward wants to dangle and bully his way to the net. He wants to score. Every D man wants to smash forwards into the boards, intercept every pass, and have precise clappers form the blue line. Every goalie wants a shutout. Well, I exaggerate a little, but this is more or less how it is.

    So basically, no one will ever be fully happy if everyone gets what they want. It doesn't make sense and is not possible.

    I just want snappy and responsive control over my skater, AI goalies to have more logic, less predictable rebounds, and not be able to squirm your way around all over the ice because you can spazz LT.

    This series should be aiming primarily at hockey fans and not at gaming fans. The casual gamer is not a long time contributor of this game. Their attention span is much shorter than a true hockey fan. Along those lines, hockey purists want more stats, more player likeness in Franchise modes.

    There is a user here that every single year makes the same posts. He will post dozens of pictures that show jersey errors. IMO, the jerseys he points out are at least 95% accurate, but he sees those errors. He can even say that it isn't exactly the right shade of orange... I am not putting him down or making fun of him, but rather, I am showing the level of detail he expects. That isn't a casual gamer. He is obviously a hockey purist. This just shows the level of diversity each customer expects of this franchise.

    100% Agree. Well said. A game for hockey fans before gamers is what is needed. As you said I have my doubts true gamers would ever latch on to a niche sports game even with e-sports. Too many other big titles out there.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    .
    rcompton78 wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    The question should be what the players want, and not what EA wants. Who is EA making the game for? The game is currently fairly arcade, and it seems many people are not happy with the game. And they've even made more arcade versions of the game, like the threes, all they had to do was tune a few things and it was 'good' to go. But I doubt much people bother with that game mode after the first day or two when initial novelty wore out. Most havent bothered at all, I wager. I doubt that mode has attracted many casuals either?

    People want to play ice-hockey like it is in the NHL, period. This game is so far from simulation in its current form that it's not worth even talking about. Think about all the automated features, lack of stick on x collisions, physics etc. And most features feel outdated, even I can see that and I've only played this game seriously on the current gen. I wonder how do the people who played this game since the beginning of this franchise feel about its current form?

    I think people want more realistic control over their player, and if this means the game gets more like a simulation, then I am all for it. Casual gamers could have fun even with a more advanced game, if there are other casual gamers to play with, sure. But even with the current form, I very much suspect it takes only a minute to turn them off the game, when they face a player who knows how this game is played and knows how to exploit the game. And are casual gamers really the ones EA needs to attract? I doubt casual gamers are ready to invest real money (or grind the seasons and challenges) in HUT, or participate in EASHL club seasons? This game needs more die-hard EA NHL fans, not casual gamers, I feel. Or maybe my definition of casual gamer is different from yours? Besides, I fear this game is already in the niche, at least in comparison to more popular sports & sports games?


    I agree for the most part.

    I wouldn't say the game is too simulation, or too arcade, or not enough of either. I think it is the balance between arcade and simulation that doesn't work. Take for example, the LT ballerina skaters. Hard pill to swallow when the skating is aimed more towards a realistic side. Even the best NHL skaters could not pull this off.

    Another issue is, every forward wants to dangle and bully his way to the net. He wants to score. Every D man wants to smash forwards into the boards, intercept every pass, and have precise clappers form the blue line. Every goalie wants a shutout. Well, I exaggerate a little, but this is more or less how it is.

    So basically, no one will ever be fully happy if everyone gets what they want. It doesn't make sense and is not possible.

    I just want snappy and responsive control over my skater, AI goalies to have more logic, less predictable rebounds, and not be able to squirm your way around all over the ice because you can spazz LT.

    This series should be aiming primarily at hockey fans and not at gaming fans. The casual gamer is not a long time contributor of this game. Their attention span is much shorter than a true hockey fan. Along those lines, hockey purists want more stats, more player likeness in Franchise modes.

    There is a user here that every single year makes the same posts. He will post dozens of pictures that show jersey errors. IMO, the jerseys he points out are at least 95% accurate, but he sees those errors. He can even say that it isn't exactly the right shade of orange... I am not putting him down or making fun of him, but rather, I am showing the level of detail he expects. That isn't a casual gamer. He is obviously a hockey purist. This just shows the level of diversity each customer expects of this franchise.

    100% Agree. Well said. A game for hockey fans before gamers is what is needed. As you said I have my doubts true gamers would ever latch on to a niche sports game even with e-sports. Too many other big titles out there.

    This is basically impossible though. There's way too diverse a community. Besides, we had people this year saying that EA needed to stop listening to the community. You can't have the game you want without listening to the community. It's pretty obvious they have been doing that, but they aren't going to get everything in that everyone wants.
  • Are they 'listening to the community' if they pick and choose a just couple of 'elite' players to listen to? It's almost as bad as listening to drunk drivers on how to make cars more safe?
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Are they 'listening to the community' if they pick and choose a just couple of 'elite' players to listen to? It's almost as bad as listening to drunk drivers on how to make cars more safe?

    It's not just a couple of elite players. A very high percentage of the community was vocal about what they wanted changed. When it comes to what kind of game we all want, in the end, it's going to vary a lot.
    Post edited by Sinbin on
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    Yeah, well the whole beta debacle happened because they made some bad decisions based on the feedback of a bunch top-players. It was only after that they started listening to 'us' (whoever we are), and did the whole revert back thing.... only it wasn't a complete revert. So the end result is that there's even more unhappy people. Some people hate the current tuner, some people think it wasn't enough etc. I guess it's not a battle they can really win, like you say, someone's always gonna be unhappy.

    That's why the team needs a strong vision of what the game should be. It looked like with the beta they had that. I think they should have just stuck with their guns at that point, instead of that knee-jerk reaction.

    But in the larger scale of things, the game is still going one step forward two steps back. It's basically a rehash of the same with small changes year after year. Will it ever make a kind of quantum leap in gameplay?
  • So I think some of you guys give great, we'll thought out answers, and use more tact than I'm capable of . But I strongly suspect your overestimating the demographics. If a more realistic game for hockey players was the demand, we'd have it. But to my eye, the 12-22 year old crowd makes up the majority. And they come and go. Very few are hardcore hockey gamers. They just want to have fun. These are the people I'm referring to as the casual gamer / fan.

    So I'm in the older demographic. Have literally had the game since Sega. Before most people ever heard of NHL 94. But my club from NHL 09 till 14 were mostly teens. Several were elite talent. But they played with their friends and grew out of the NHL series. Maybe my perception is skewed and maybe I'm out of touch with how many or few young players there are. But trust me, EA isn't going at this blind. They do extensive market and demographic research.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    drod1126 wrote: »
    So I think some of you guys give great, we'll thought out answers, and use more tact than I'm capable of . But I strongly suspect your overestimating the demographics. If a more realistic game for hockey players was the demand, we'd have it. But to my eye, the 12-22 year old crowd makes up the majority. And they come and go. Very few are hardcore hockey gamers. They just want to have fun. These are the people I'm referring to as the casual gamer / fan.

    So I'm in the older demographic. Have literally had the game since Sega. Before most people ever heard of NHL 94. But my club from NHL 09 till 14 were mostly teens. Several were elite talent. But they played with their friends and grew out of the NHL series. Maybe my perception is skewed and maybe I'm out of touch with how many or few young players there are. But trust me, EA isn't going at this blind. They do extensive market and demographic research.

    When you charge $60-$100 for a game that feels rehashed each year, with microtransactions, then you're slowly going to lose your base (that enjoy sports games), to other games. Ones wasn't revolutionary, but felt like a filler. Offline feels exactly the same like last year. I can't speak for HUT, never played it. EASHL feels like last year, but worse. 19 was riddled with bugs, insanely laggy UI, and terrible online component (For example, not getting backed out to the lobby with the people you played with the game before, being thrown into games while it's loading INTO a game, and my personal favorite of adding more clicks to get to where you want to go since last year). The people that continue to play are the die-hards and the competitive. That's all that's left in the NHL fanbase.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    drod1126 wrote: »
    So I think some of you guys give great, we'll thought out answers, and use more tact than I'm capable of . But I strongly suspect your overestimating the demographics. If a more realistic game for hockey players was the demand, we'd have it. But to my eye, the 12-22 year old crowd makes up the majority. And they come and go. Very few are hardcore hockey gamers. They just want to have fun. These are the people I'm referring to as the casual gamer / fan.

    So I'm in the older demographic. Have literally had the game since Sega. Before most people ever heard of NHL 94. But my club from NHL 09 till 14 were mostly teens. Several were elite talent. But they played with their friends and grew out of the NHL series. Maybe my perception is skewed and maybe I'm out of touch with how many or few young players there are. But trust me, EA isn't going at this blind. They do extensive market and demographic research.

    When you charge $60-$100 for a game that feels rehashed each year, with microtransactions, then you're slowly going to lose your base (that enjoy sports games), to other games. Ones wasn't revolutionary, but felt like a filler. Offline feels exactly the same like last year. I can't speak for HUT, never played it. EASHL feels like last year, but worse. 19 was riddled with bugs, insanely laggy UI, and terrible online component (For example, not getting backed out to the lobby with the people you played with the game before, being thrown into games while it's loading INTO a game, and my personal favorite of adding more clicks to get to where you want to go since last year). The people that continue to play are the die-hards and the competitive. That's all that's left in the NHL fanbase.

    Pretty much this...

    I've said it once and I'll say it again: the problems with this game are more complex than just what's wrong on the surface (and even in some very important core mechanics), it's the PHILOSOPHY of the people who make it.

    One day, when EA realizes that you don't market a game to people that DON'T play the game or have no interest in its subject (like NHL Hockey) then people will buy it.

    NHL is a niche game by default. It's never gonna have 10 million sales. It's not even gonna have 5 million. Stop trying to cater to people that don't play the sport. Stop trying to cater to the gamers and concentrate on your CORE audience which are all Hockey fans. They want to play hockey. Concentrate on the HOCKEY and people will come back. People will play your game and be happy.
  • kitchener_boy
    354 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Well..if people who don't like or know hockey but EA wants to reach those people to buy the game,that is the issue!
    But to be fair...and this is honest..When I play NHL 14 with someone who tries to play realistic as I do..the issues with 14 are not very noticeable except for bouncy puck and the protective bubble. Same can be said if your playing NHL 19.. if you play realistic and you get matched up with someone who abuses glitch goals..then the game plays like a complete nightmare.
    Venom touched on this earlier I think..the contrast between the two styles. I do believe Glitchers make everything stand out. Online isn't really fun anymore really.That may hurt sales even more if you can't figure out how to make AI goalies smarter to the same glitch wrister...if that's still an issue,or pulling off the post for freebies.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Well..if people who don't like or know hockey but EA wants to reach those people to buy the game,that is the issue!
    But to be fair...and this is honest..When I play NHL 14 with someone who tries to play realistic as I do..the issues with 14 are not very noticeable except for bouncy puck and the protective bubble. Same can be said if your playing NHL 19.. if you play realistic and you get matched up with someone who abuses glitch goals..then the game plays like a complete nightmare.
    Venom touched on this earlier I think..the contrast between the two styles. I do believe Glitchers make everything stand out. Online isn't really fun anymore really.That may hurt sales even more if you can't figure out how to make AI goalies smarter to the same glitch wrister...if that's still an issue,or pulling off the post for freebies.

    Thank you. Yes.

    I think I've said this before, but I play a game called Ultra Street Fighter IV. It's a very competitive game online. It used to be much bigger a few years back, but there's still a decent amount of people still playing it, even on Xbox Live.

    The people that play the game come in all varied types, and yes, there are those, like in NHL 19's online modes, that play abusing a character's "gimmicks" which is similar to how a lot of people play NHL trying to abuse the exploits. The difference between USF4 and NHL (aside from them being completely different games) is that in USF4, if someone uses mostly gimmicks, they can be defeated using fundamental Street Fighter knowledge like good anti-airing (not letting someone jump in for free), punish blocked or whiffed moves, baiting them to mash out a reversal (inputting a special or a super move on wakeup for example).

    By playing with solid fundamentals, the person playing with only "gimmicks" soon finds themselves on the losing end of a battle. Pretty soon none of their gimmicks work. And since they have no fundamentals, they have nothing to threaten their opponents with.

    Sadly that's not how NHL 19 (or previous versions) is played. The person that abuse the exploits comes out on top. Even if you play solid and limit the damage, there are simply too many factors stacked against you; A random floater from the blue line that finds its way past the goalie. A random rebound that "magically" finds it's way to the opponent just standing there in the open. A random deflection from a player flying by, not even facing the play. Shots from the goal line the goalie can't stop. Your own AI teammates' sheer stupidity. Lag.

    Too much randomness in NHL. And as we all know, Randomness does NOT equal realism. Randomness favours the casuals. The gamers. The people who have ZERO hockey knowledge.

    Why would I play a game where playing by its rules doesn't work. When I play Street Fighter, and I play by its rules, it works. When I play NHL 19 and I play by hockey rules, it doesn't work. So why am I (are WE) playing NHL??...
    Post edited by VeNOM2099 on
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Well..if people who don't like or know hockey but EA wants to reach those people to buy the game,that is the issue!
    But to be fair...and this is honest..When I play NHL 14 with someone who tries to play realistic as I do..the issues with 14 are not very noticeable except for bouncy puck and the protective bubble. Same can be said if your playing NHL 19.. if you play realistic and you get matched up with someone who abuses glitch goals..then the game plays like a complete nightmare.
    Venom touched on this earlier I think..the contrast between the two styles. I do believe Glitchers make everything stand out. Online isn't really fun anymore really.That may hurt sales even more if you can't figure out how to make AI goalies smarter to the same glitch wrister...if that's still an issue,or pulling off the post for freebies.

    Thank you. Yes.

    I think I've said this before, but I play a game called Ultra Street Fighter IV. It's a very competitive game online. It used to be much bigger a few years back, but there's still a decent amount of people still playing it, even on Xbox Live.

    The people that play the game come in all varied types, and yes, there are those, like in NHL 19's online modes, that play abusing a character's "gimmicks" which is similar to how a lot of people play NHL trying to abuse the exploits. The difference between USF4 and NHL (aside from them being completely different games) is that in USF4, if someone uses gimmicks I can beat them using fundamental Street Fighter knowledge like good anti-airing (not letting someone jump in for free), punish blocked or whiffed moves, baiting them to mash out a reversal (inputting a special or a super move on wakeup for example).

    By playing with solid fundamentals, the person playing with only "gimmicks" soon finds themselves on the losing end of a battle. Pretty soon none of their gimmicks work. And since they have no fundamentals, they have nothing to threaten their opponents with.

    Sadly that's not how NHL 19 (or previous versions) is played. The person that abuse the exploits comes out on top. Even if you play solid and limit the damage, there are simply too many factors stacked against you; A random floater from the blue line that finds its way past the goalie. A random rebound that "magically" finds it's way to the opponent just standing there in the open. A random deflection from a player flying by, not even facing the play. Shots from the goal line the goalie can't stop. Your own AI teammates' sheer stupidity. Lag.

    Too much randomness in NHL. And as we all know, Randomness does NOT equal realism. Randomness favours the casuals. The gamers. The people who have ZERO hockey knowledge.

    Why would I play a game where playing by its rules doesn't work. When I play Street Fighter, and I play by its rules, it works. When I play NHL 19 and I play by hockey rules, it doesn't work. So why am I (are WE) playing NHL??...

    I have no issues with EA trying to reach out and attract casual players. Question is, why not have different game modes or servers for those wanting those types of games? Why are their opinions taken into account for EASHL, which, imo, should be much more simulation based??

    Yea 3v3 arcade and Ones is a step in that direction, but that should not come and affect EASHL tuning and how it works.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Exactly. Street Fighter IV is what happened when Capcom listened to their hardcore fans, the people that played Street Fighter all their lives and knew all the ins and out and made a living out of it.

    Fast forward 9 years and they released Street Fighter V after listening to the "casuals". They dumbed the game down, so that casuals could compete with the pros. Look where it got them.

    SF4 was a huge success selling over 4 million copies in it's first year. SF5 was a complete failure, not even selling 2 million copies of the game in it's first 2 years. Even after they released a massive update adding a free Arcade mode and Story mode. It is played competitively now because so much money was poured into it by big sponsors like Sony, Intel, Razer, MadCatz, etc.

    Proving that you don't build a game for those that don't play it and/or don't understand it. You build a Street Fighter game for those that play Street Fighter. If the casuals want to play, they'll have to learn how to play Street Fighter.

    You build a Hockey game for those that play Hockey. If the casuals want to play, they'll need to learn how to play Hockey. Simple.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Exactly. Street Fighter IV is what happened when Capcom listened to their hardcore fans, the people that played Street Fighter all their lives and knew all the ins and out and made a living out of it.

    Fast forward 9 years and they released Street Fighter V after listening to the "casuals". They dumbed the game down, so that casuals could compete with the pros. Look where it got them.

    SF4 was a huge success selling over 4 million copies in it's first year. SF5 was a complete failure, not even selling 2 million copies of the game in it's first 2 years. Even after they released a massive update adding a free Arcade mode and Story mode. It is played competitively now because so much money was poured into it by big sponsors like Sony, Intel, Razer, MadCatz, etc.

    Proving that you don't build a game for those that don't play it and/or don't understand it. You build a Street Fighter game for those that play Street Fighter. If the casuals want to play, they'll have to learn how to play Street Fighter.

    You build a Hockey game for those that play Hockey. If the casuals want to play, they'll need to learn how to play Hockey. Simple.

    Exactly. Make a hockey game based on hockey and hockey IQ.

    Make a goof hockey mode for those that want to goof around without needing an understanding of all the ins and outs of the sport.

    This is just my opinion, but I think it really is as simple as that. Although, from what I hear, all the LG "elites" are complaining they can't score because of overpowered D and somehow "stellar" goalies....
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    .
    rcompton78 wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I doubt EA want more simulation and authenticity. That would lead to a niche market. The arcade playability leads to a broader base. Anyone can pick up the game and have fun. That should be the motto. Frankly asking for more tedious board play and dumping and just general team play will alienate casual gamers. No casual gamers = no sales = NO NHL 20.

    The question should be what the players want, and not what EA wants. Who is EA making the game for? The game is currently fairly arcade, and it seems many people are not happy with the game. And they've even made more arcade versions of the game, like the threes, all they had to do was tune a few things and it was 'good' to go. But I doubt much people bother with that game mode after the first day or two when initial novelty wore out. Most havent bothered at all, I wager. I doubt that mode has attracted many casuals either?

    People want to play ice-hockey like it is in the NHL, period. This game is so far from simulation in its current form that it's not worth even talking about. Think about all the automated features, lack of stick on x collisions, physics etc. And most features feel outdated, even I can see that and I've only played this game seriously on the current gen. I wonder how do the people who played this game since the beginning of this franchise feel about its current form?

    I think people want more realistic control over their player, and if this means the game gets more like a simulation, then I am all for it. Casual gamers could have fun even with a more advanced game, if there are other casual gamers to play with, sure. But even with the current form, I very much suspect it takes only a minute to turn them off the game, when they face a player who knows how this game is played and knows how to exploit the game. And are casual gamers really the ones EA needs to attract? I doubt casual gamers are ready to invest real money (or grind the seasons and challenges) in HUT, or participate in EASHL club seasons? This game needs more die-hard EA NHL fans, not casual gamers, I feel. Or maybe my definition of casual gamer is different from yours? Besides, I fear this game is already in the niche, at least in comparison to more popular sports & sports games?


    I agree for the most part.

    I wouldn't say the game is too simulation, or too arcade, or not enough of either. I think it is the balance between arcade and simulation that doesn't work. Take for example, the LT ballerina skaters. Hard pill to swallow when the skating is aimed more towards a realistic side. Even the best NHL skaters could not pull this off.

    Another issue is, every forward wants to dangle and bully his way to the net. He wants to score. Every D man wants to smash forwards into the boards, intercept every pass, and have precise clappers form the blue line. Every goalie wants a shutout. Well, I exaggerate a little, but this is more or less how it is.

    So basically, no one will ever be fully happy if everyone gets what they want. It doesn't make sense and is not possible.

    I just want snappy and responsive control over my skater, AI goalies to have more logic, less predictable rebounds, and not be able to squirm your way around all over the ice because you can spazz LT.

    This series should be aiming primarily at hockey fans and not at gaming fans. The casual gamer is not a long time contributor of this game. Their attention span is much shorter than a true hockey fan. Along those lines, hockey purists want more stats, more player likeness in Franchise modes.

    There is a user here that every single year makes the same posts. He will post dozens of pictures that show jersey errors. IMO, the jerseys he points out are at least 95% accurate, but he sees those errors. He can even say that it isn't exactly the right shade of orange... I am not putting him down or making fun of him, but rather, I am showing the level of detail he expects. That isn't a casual gamer. He is obviously a hockey purist. This just shows the level of diversity each customer expects of this franchise.

    100% Agree. Well said. A game for hockey fans before gamers is what is needed. As you said I have my doubts true gamers would ever latch on to a niche sports game even with e-sports. Too many other big titles out there.

    This is basically impossible though. There's way too diverse a community. Besides, we had people this year saying that EA needed to stop listening to the community. You can't have the game you want without listening to the community. It's pretty obvious they have been doing that, but they aren't going to get everything in that everyone wants.

    Well, listening to the community is much more than just listening and even implementing. You have to filter that feedback and find ways to get it done. This can be done with tunings, game modes and whatever else you can think of. Just slapping everything together in one mix is not what I consider as "listening to the community". It just adds confusion and no definitive direction.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Although, from what I hear, all the LG "elites" are complaining they can't score because of overpowered D and somehow "stellar" goalies....

    You mean the people who's understanding of hockey comes from EA's version of it.

    I have someone in my LG team telling me that putting 5 men across their blue line is a "trap" and it can't be beaten. LOL!
  • AriGates
    7 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    I have been playing this game since the Genesis in 91. I used to participate in everything the dev's would open up to the community.. Live streams, Q&A, the works. I genuinely deeply cared about this game until NHL 2013. After years of the same problems and hearing the same excuses I just couldn't take this game seriously anymore.

    The very same topics everyone is talking about right now were being talked about back in 2010, and the excuse EA used was they didn't have enough money to do what they wanted with the game. Every single year nothing that really mattered would change and that was the excuse. Eventually, when the game was making plenty of money I realized the problem was with the developers.

    Fast forward almost 10 years. The game still has literally the exact same issues. Servers, lag impact on player attributes and animations, collision detection in every game type(both puck and player), puck pick up, poor AI, pause glitches, dressing room glitches, dc's, lack of polish, features, and just simple common sense quality of life things like seamless menus.

    If you look at video of NHL 11 you really have to be using some rose tinted glasses to see any meaningful gameplay improvements or advances from the current game. In fact for every 1 step forward, there have been several steps back. It's true the games were more arcade than now, though I think it's closer than people like to admit. Sure there was broken stuff, but a lot of it was hilarious and caused laugh out loud moments. Deking was better, passing was better, checking was better. Now we have this weird attempt at a realistic sim game on too small of a rink with arcade hitting and a lack of polish and talent we're used to seeing from other sports sims. So we're stuck with this less fun non-sim with the graphics other sports games had years ago.

    Then there's also the simple things so obvious it's hard to understand how it's not in the game. I used to be able to go to the bench as a goalie and come out as a player. That was already a thing in the NHL series before, but somehow it's not possible now? You can't change strategies during whistles and intermissions? You have to do it during play. Huh? How is there not a tab in the menu to do so? Where are EASHL line changes? Photo game face? If I could remember my old account I could post these exact questions from NHL 11 and likely the same answers would be given.

    The simple sad reality is it doesn't seem like EA can or is willing to get the kind of talent to work on this game and make this game what we all wish it could be. Where is the innovation and creative thinking? Why haven't any next level advances happened with this game? I can understand attracting top talent being an issue for creating a niche game, but there's games that have way less budget making better games and there's enough here in this game to produce a much better product than we have. There is just no ability whatsoever to recognize and act on that by the people making the game.

    I can't understand why nobody on the dev team sees that there is an arcade mode nobody plays just sitting there doing nothing and doesn't do something with it, especially with the state of EASHL. The framework is already there. Use it to test drastically different versions of EASHL. People want it more arcade style, people want it more sim. Guess what the ability is there to have two very different EASHL type modes that are good and appeal to more people. Anything that can get people playing the game again is a win.

    It's a really sad feeling when as a gamer you know without a shadow of a doubt that you can do a better job than the people you've given your hard earned money for so many years. I could take a dead mode like arcade 3's and make a 6's and 3's version of the EASHL that way more people would play and enjoy.

    And while probably every person that reads that will immediately roll their eyes, the simple fact is the player base continues to dwindle after a brief spike during the admittedly pretty fun beta. The state of this game is dismal at best. It's not like the bar is very high.

    One thing we can all agree on is this hockey game is nothing like real hockey.



Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.