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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


Check out our CHEL notes with our October Patch update here.

NHL 20 gets development boost from EA

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  • VeNOM2099
    2605 posts Member
    We'll have to agree to disagree. There's never a bad moment to talk about your game. Even if all you're doing is saying that there's in fact "a game" and nothing more.

    But that's just me...
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • zingaa1
    400 posts Member
    edited June 10
    I get the targeting your core community part, but if that's the sole ideology, how in the world can this franchise ever grow? It appears not only does the development side struggle, but the marketing side as well. It's all starting to make sense why this franchise is spiraling.
    EA NHL should be at every gaming convention known to man, having small community events in popular cities, etc....
  • Tonysl79
    267 posts Member
    You can’t grow your community of players if you don’t advertise outside your comfort zone.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    We'll have to agree to disagree. There's never a bad moment to talk about your game. Even if all you're doing is saying that there's in fact "a game" and nothing more.

    But that's just me...

    That's fine. We can disagree all day, no harm with that. In any case, we all know the game is coming anyway. I just hope and pray we are not seeing a Frostbite transition anytime soon. All these added devs has me worried that's what it's for.
  • VeNOM2099
    2605 posts Member
    I have a feeling Frostbite will make things worse. Kinda like trying to make a new expansion to your house, but not bothering to fix the foundation which has cracked many years ago.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • rcompton78
    232 posts Member
    edited June 10
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    EA_Roger wrote: »
    Even if we had mentioned it at EA Play I'm pretty sure Keanu Reeves showing up after would have erased it from our memory.
    tenor.gif?itemid=14310969

    Nothing can beat Keanu's reveal... That and the big PSO2 coming to the west officially and on Xbox Exclusively blew everyone's minds. But in all seriousness, it was a huge missed opportunity, IMO. Like I said, didn't need to be anything but a logo with a "hey, we're gonna show you the game after the NHL awards, we haven't forgotten. "

    I agree with Roger. Why talk about NHL games when you will do so at the awards where they won't talk about other games? The NHL games have their own specific reveal time. Nothing wrong with that, imo. I see your point though, but at the same time, not required by EA considering the NHL awards.

    A few reasons come to mind:

    1-Possibly to draw in new gamers that don't know much about hockey so won't be watching NHL awards.
    2- Draw in young kids that love E3 maybe like hockey but don't care for awards
    3- Show off one of the fastest paced team sports sims on the market. Game may not play great but am pretty sure would demo very well. I mean I fall for the trailer every year.

    I mean hockey is growing in places we never thought could. It is still nothing compared to the big 3 but more and more kids from odd places are playing in the streets, The NHL game community is small and shrinking. The die hard hockey fans will likely buy or at least try find info/trailers on the game each year but non hockey fans likely won't. So shove it in their faces. Grow this game and the love for the sport.

    I feel as though it is a wasted opportunity for EA to sell a game to gamers. They decided to sell it to hockey fans. I am no marketing genius by no means and have no proof but I feel that the number of gamer hockey fans that are watching the awards (outside of the NHL gamers that will watch awards just to see the trailer) is lower than the number of gamers watching, attending and catching up on EA play content during E3. I could very well be wrong.
  • KidShowtime1867
    949 posts Member
    edited June 10
    I remember the good old days when David Littman was running the show and Rammer was showcasing the game on the floor at E3.

    And Littman’s breakdowns of upcoming game enhancements was ahead of it’s time.

  • zingaa1
    400 posts Member
    I remember the good old days when David Littman was running the show and Rammer was showcasing the game on the floor at E3.

    And Littman’s breakdowns of upcoming game enhancements was ahead of it’s time.


    I agree 100%, it seemed he cared about the game, now it's just a train wreck.
  • VeNOM2099
    2605 posts Member
    edited June 12
    Here's the thing that irks me about this "phylosophy" of hiding the game until the NHL awards, which according to some, is because they want to target the game to their "core" fans.

    If that is the case, and EA wants to target the hardcore NHL hockey fan, then why (for the love of geebus) does their game play like 1% real hockey, 99% highlight reel compilation of the WORST goals in hockey? How can anybody believe that this team having MORE people work on the game will mean a different result with the game? Which by the way, is too late to help with NHL 20, the larger workforce will likely start helping starting NHL 21... If then.

    Here's a prediction of what we're going to be dealing with in NHL 20, which is to say, the SAME thing we've been dealing with in this series for something like 10 years now:



    Where's the AI on offense here? Why is it so intent on going where there's a defenseman when there's an empty spot right in the slot?



    Here's one of my favourite plays. Cycle down the boards. Take it behind the net. I lose it, but I recover it. I see the d-man backed off just in case they recovered the puck, but I'm gonna pass it to him since... Why the heck did he appear in the center of the ice? Oh for the love of... BTW, this happens almost every game I play. This and the AI constantly going off-sides when I try to carry the puck in. Even if I slow down to allow it to get back onside when I SEE it go offsides, it just spazzes out and gets called. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.



    EA Hockey 101: if you have an opportunity to pass, don't. Just rag the puck in the corner until you see the dumb defensive AI leave the backdoor open for an easy one-t. Oh the user is preventing the pass? Then just wait until you get the short side cheese chance. Either way you're more likely to score that way then playing actual hockey in a hockey game, right EA?



    Dumb player + Dumb Shot + Dumb Game = Rewarded. EA logic... *sigh*



    Ok, so I DID get burned by the boards, but then I play solid defense and play the pass on a 2 on 1, giving him the near breakaway chance and... Nope! He pulls back, goes to the slot and takes a weak shot... Of course it goes in. LOL! Every NHL player knows that when you have a chance to walk in on the goalie, you're supposed to pull back and take a muffin from the slot to score. Hoooooooooo boy!



    Ok fine! That's the way to play your game EA? Wakarimasu...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ... Why is that a goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal???!!?? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!

    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »



    Where's the AI on offense here? Why is it so intent on going where there's a defenseman when there's an empty spot right in the slot?

    It's possible you have 'Behind the Net' set in your strategies. I agree that the A.I. should recognize the open opportunity, but you need to be aware of what strategy you are imposing on your A.I.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »



    Here's one of my favourite plays. Cycle down the boards. Take it behind the net. I lose it, but I recover it. I see the d-man backed off just in case they recovered the puck, but I'm gonna pass it to him since... Why the heck did he appear in the center of the ice? Oh for the love of... BTW, this happens almost every game I play. This and the AI constantly going off-sides when I try to carry the puck in. Even if I slow down to allow it to get back onside when I SEE it go offsides, it just spazzes out and gets called. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

    Okay so The D-Man is preparing for a one timer. You pass the puck AFTER the player begins to move to the middle for a better angle on the one timer. Instead of reading the play and recognizing where your players are, you made a pass and ASSUMED your d-man would be there. It's not wrong to assume the Dman will be there, but good hockey players take a look and then pass. In your video, you literally begin skating towards the dman you want to pass to. If you were looking, you would've recognized the player moving towards the middle and either cancelled your pass or adjusted the angle on LS before releasing LT.

    VeNOM2099 wrote: »




    EA Hockey 101: if you have an opportunity to pass, don't. Just rag the puck in the corner until you see the dumb defensive AI leave the backdoor open for an easy one-t. Oh the user is preventing the pass? Then just wait until you get the short side cheese chance. Either way you're more likely to score that way then playing actual hockey in a hockey game, right EA?

    It's not EA's responsibility to tell users how to play hockey. They will play however they want. Your gripe seems to be that the way some people play it - it exposes your weakness as a defender.

    In your clip above, you used DSS literally ZERO times. DSS would've discouraged the player from attempting to move to the slot and go short side. You did good by simply placing your body in the way of the shot - but that shot wouldn't have even been attempted if you present the user with the obstacle of getting around a well-placed stick, in DSS.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »




    Dumb player + Dumb Shot + Dumb Game = Rewarded. EA logic... *sigh*

    *sigh*

    Did the puck deflect off of an OTT stick? Looks like it could've. Does the goalie have a clear line of vision to the shooter when the puck gets off the stick?

    gukkLTo.png

    No.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »




    Ok, so I DID get burned by the boards, but then I play solid defense and play the pass on a 2 on 1, giving him the near breakaway chance and... Nope! He pulls back, goes to the slot and takes a weak shot... Of course it goes in. LOL! Every NHL player knows that when you have a chance to walk in on the goalie, you're supposed to pull back and take a muffin from the slot to score. Hoooooooooo boy!


    You got burned. Period. You played the pass rather than using DSS to discourage a shot (or at least interfere with it) while simultaneously keeping your body ready to move (if there was a pass) to interrupt the one-timer.

    fbzUlk5.png


    I'm not quite sure how you can say this is a 'weak shot' when an NHL player will likely score on this 75% of the time.

    VeNOM2099 wrote: »


    Ok fine! That's the way to play your game EA? Wakarimasu...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ... Why is that a goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal???!!?? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!

    Players score goals like that all the time.

    You seem to have an issue with goals being scored from a perceived long distance. Your theme is 'goalies don't allow goals from that far out' without explicitly saying so.

    But goalies do let goals in from that far out. It happens. And when you play 4-5 games a night/day, you're going to see it happen more often than if you watch 4-5 full real NHL games a week.

  • those clips cant be nhl 19. no one spamming l2 to get that speed boost exploit.
  • VeNOM2099
    2605 posts Member
    edited June 14
    More EA Goodness to prepare for NHL 20:



    Remember that time, when an NHL player had a foot in the way of the shot to block it, but at the last minute moves his skate out of the way? Good job recreating THAT, EA!



    Remember that time the NHL caliber goalie slid out of position to make a routine save? Masterfully recreated here through the magic of EA sports! Beautiful!



    Remember that time the NHL defenseman just kept machine gun spamming poke check from behind when there was a breakaway? And there was no penalty call? So immaculately recreated here by EA!

    @KidShowtime1867

    People play the game this way, because the game ALLOWS it. It's not a lot more complicated than that. Why bother to make a correct play (which takes more effort and/or skill) when the game just allows you to pull back and take a dumb shot the goalie won't even attempt to block? This is done to "even the playing field" and make sure newer players (who may not have that much hockey knowledge) can find some measure of success initially. The problem is that there are those with more skill that will abuse those same mechanics.

    And this isn't something that solely on EA's shoulders. Many developers try to take similar shortcuts to try and bring in more "casuals" into their games. Take Capcom for instance: when they went from SF4 to SF5, they lowered the skill requirement to perform combos; whereas in Street Fighter 4, the toughest combos required a high level of execution where you needed to press buttons within 1 frame (0.016th of a second) of each other, Street Fighter 5's most difficult combos were boosted up to 3 frames. They also streamlined the combo trees (or the amount of button presses you can perform after any given move) so that new players wouldn't have to memorize different combos for their character (or characters) they want to play.

    What this did is, yes, on the surface it DID allow newer more "casual" gamers to pick up the game. But what it also did is it alienated their more hardcore userbase because now EVERYONE can do multiple hit, high damage combos with ease. Now everyone can do the same combos, there's no uniqueness to them anymore. The game no longer requires any special training or knowledge. Just do it and you'll get rewarded. All those years the hardcore players had to toil and sweat to get good, gone.

    Sound familiar?

    That is my gripe. I don't care about losing or winning, as much as I care that all the effort I put into playing is for naught when my opponent with limited skill or knowledge of the game can succeed just as well and more easily. I could debase myself and do just like they do (as I've shown in the vid) but when I do... I feel a part of me somehow... Dies.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • I don’t login here much anymore because I feel like the feedback doesn’t ever result in anything changing. The core problems of 1v1 modes and offline modes is still the AI experience. It’s so blatantly obvious that the CPU AI is a half-step ahead of your teammates when it comes to reacting to plays. The egregious input reading that’s supposed to look like anticipation makes the cycling game harder than it should as your AI clearly don’t read though inputs and “anticipate”.

    Venom, on that top goal I had a similar CPU goal against me last night that was a result of the goalie literally siding on his butt towards the corner because the puck was traveling from the same boards as in your clip, and as an added plus, my defender decided to glide towards outside of the far post as the weak side defenseman just to make sure that passing lane was wide open lol. Why do pucks from the wall just throw goalies for a loop in this series? It’s been a problem since last-gen. They literally move out of the way and as a goalie irl, it’s either amazingly frustrating or absolutely laughable depending on my mood.

    I mean, when stuff like that happens it literally makes me shut the game off. That’s completely ridiculous that as an offline user, you are at a genuine disadvantage by trying to play the puck and immerse yourself in the sport because your weak side defenseman can’t manage to even put himself in a position where I can switch to him to defend the play. He’s so far out of position that I could even try to get a stick on the puck after a slow, backhand sauce pass from the boards.

    There’s absolutely no hope in me buying 20 at full-price, and it’d be a long-shot for me even buying it at all. Lack of roster sharing, lack of custom sliders in online games, lack of even a custom online league system like we had in last gen, lack of offline 31-team franchise support, lack of custom league options like FIFA, and lack of immersive AI play offline just doesn’t deserve my $60 anymore.

    I don’t feel like any of the constructive feedback I’ve given will be used at all. How much you wanna bet the 1-4 trap is still broken next year? Will weakside defenders on your team ever learn to play their position? Will the overload be properly implemented? Will a useful PP edit lines screen be added? Will PP logic (playing their positions like a real PP) be implemented? Will AI teammates crash the net while actually in a shooting position/at least facing the net this year rather than backskating in? Will weakside forwards open up for 1ts rather than stand on their backhand? Will your teammate AI get the same anticipation/input reading ability the CPU AI gets? Will the CPU actually adhere to the physics engine next year? Will board play ever be improved? Will the goalies learn to not slide completely out of the net on slow moving passes next year? Will your AI support the puck and actually run a proper breakout next year? Will the offensive zone actually be dynamic next year where you can have cycling and crashing the net depending on the situation, rather than a static strategy set pre-game? Will actual PP formations be added to the game rather than a broken overload, an umbrella that never wants to play their position/never actually sets up correctly, and a vague “shooting” PP that lacks net-front presence?

    These are the things I want answered before I buy another NHL game. To be fair, all of EAs games are like this. They are realistic in certain ways, but then they fall short on a plethora of things that make the game more frustrating than if it had just be made as an arcade game. NHL Hitz isn’t realistic, but it’s an awesome arcade game which can be tuned to have a more realistic feel if the user chooses so. The thing that makes that game work is that the AI is consistent, they play position well, and I know that it’s an arcade game so the AI will have some hidden bonuses, but my play recognition evens the playing field. I can trust my AI to not totally mess-up when I’m properly playing my position unlike this series. That’s great, that’s what NHL used to be imo.

    Now, I can’t even leave the front of the net because I can’t trust that my weakside defender won’t start day-dreaming and start slowly gliding to outside the back post? Lol I mean, come one. You gotta give us more than that. I’m desperately trying to play this game and love it, but these shortcomings are just too much. Hundreds of hours, hundreds of slider/strategy adjustments to try and “fix” this game and everything I do eventually isn’t enough.

    Back to NHL Hitz Pro/2k10 for me. Those games just keep me coming back. Especially the 2k goalies. Man do I love them.
  • VeNOM2099
    2605 posts Member
    edited June 14
    Agreed. And that's another thing that kills me. I'd love to be able to adhere to the same principles as the "elites" who play this game religiously online like not skill zoning and always play man to man defense.

    But when the AI is running around chasing the puck and not even caring about its position? When the AI is constantly coming onto MY side when I'm already there watching the puck holder? How can I play man to man when my AI isn't even going to be in position when I need to switch over if the opponent passes the puck?

    I might as well just stand in place and let the AI run around and do its thing. I hate it, but sometimes I just watch the AI go berserk on the ice and I just throw my hands up and have to say alea iacta est...
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • SpillGal
    324 posts Member
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    That is my gripe. I don't care about losing or winning, as much as I care that all the effort I put into playing is for naught when my opponent with limited skill or knowledge of the game can succeed just as well and more easily. I could debase myself and do just like they do (as I've shown in the vid) but when I do... I feel a part of me somehow... Dies.

    Great post, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. Just quoted the last bit to keep scrolling at a minimum.
    When low skill goals are happening just as often as the ones that take more skill to pull off, the whole concept of a 1v1 game is gone.

    In theory, the low skill goals should be easy to defend, so if you allow them it's your own fault. Well, that's not the case. With AI abandoning their positions, players moving out of the way and shots going in from "safe" areas, playing D becomes more of a lottery.

    In the other end, even though you play with patience, keep moving the puck until you find that golden opening and threads a pefect pass through it. Chances are that your player whiffs, hit the post, a spiderman goalie saves it or whatever.

    Meaning you can play perfect D, still your AI will create an opening. You can play top notch offense, but RNG will say "no goal". Then what's the point? Might aswell resort to throwing pucks from blue, or try to backwards glide-twitch from the corner, to hit that short-side. And when you finally get it, there's no joy, you just resorted to a cheap goal.

    The game has been like this for years, and I have sort of accepted that's how EA wants their game to play. I might not understand why they choose to make RNG such a deciding factor, but I do know that it is a direct trade off, with what makes a game worthwhile.

    Still, without looking too hard at the results, I've been finding joy in trying to piece together some nice plays. Setting up a beautifull tic tac toe feels a lot more rewarding than scoring from blue on an unscreened goalie, even if that tic tac toe ended in a whiffed shot or some other RNG-made fault.

    This year they are having AI stay away from open ice, more than ever. Making it impossible to piece together anything. Of course, AI isn't always hiding in the shadows. It changes dynamically throughout the games. You can have full games where they never attack the slot or go for open ice just as you can have full games where they are always open or you can have anything in between. But the amount of time they are all hiding somewhere, by far, outweighs the times they are there with you.

    The basic point of playing this game was thrown away, years ago. Now, they have also removed the one element that could still make it an enjoyable experience.
    I am not even getting a little buzz of hopeful excitement, when I see they are getting more devs. Cause the basic idea behind this title goes against everything I'm looking for in a game. More devs are not gonna change that.

  • PlayoffError
    232 posts Member
    edited June 14
    A big problem with the AI defensively is that it seems like they can't recognize that a player is covered unless you're right on top of him.

    Take this play for example. I keep the offensive player to the outside on the rush, and my partner sets up to protect against him cutting to the net. He's contained.

    The AI should pick up a trailer allowing me to either protect against the guy with the puck curling back up for the short-side cheese or break off to cover the third man depending on what I think is most dangerous.

    Instead the AI does his best Leeroy Jenkins impression and just barrels into us for no reason, sending everything I to complete chaos.

  • I don’t login here much anymore because I feel like the feedback doesn’t ever result in anything changing. The core problems of 1v1 modes and offline modes is still the AI experience. It’s so blatantly obvious that the CPU AI is a half-step ahead of your teammates when it comes to reacting to plays. The egregious input reading that’s supposed to look like anticipation makes the cycling game harder than it should as your AI clearly don’t read though inputs and “anticipate”.

    Venom, on that top goal I had a similar CPU goal against me last night that was a result of the goalie literally siding on his butt towards the corner because the puck was traveling from the same boards as in your clip, and as an added plus, my defender decided to glide towards outside of the far post as the weak side defenseman just to make sure that passing lane was wide open lol. Why do pucks from the wall just throw goalies for a loop in this series? It’s been a problem since last-gen. They literally move out of the way and as a goalie irl, it’s either amazingly frustrating or absolutely laughable depending on my mood.

    I mean, when stuff like that happens it literally makes me shut the game off. That’s completely ridiculous that as an offline user, you are at a genuine disadvantage by trying to play the puck and immerse yourself in the sport because your weak side defenseman can’t manage to even put himself in a position where I can switch to him to defend the play. He’s so far out of position that I could even try to get a stick on the puck after a slow, backhand sauce pass from the boards.

    There’s absolutely no hope in me buying 20 at full-price, and it’d be a long-shot for me even buying it at all. Lack of roster sharing, lack of custom sliders in online games, lack of even a custom online league system like we had in last gen, lack of offline 31-team franchise support, lack of custom league options like FIFA, and lack of immersive AI play offline just doesn’t deserve my $60 anymore.

    I don’t feel like any of the constructive feedback I’ve given will be used at all. How much you wanna bet the 1-4 trap is still broken next year? Will weakside defenders on your team ever learn to play their position? Will the overload be properly implemented? Will a useful PP edit lines screen be added? Will PP logic (playing their positions like a real PP) be implemented? Will AI teammates crash the net while actually in a shooting position/at least facing the net this year rather than backskating in? Will weakside forwards open up for 1ts rather than stand on their backhand? Will your teammate AI get the same anticipation/input reading ability the CPU AI gets? Will the CPU actually adhere to the physics engine next year? Will board play ever be improved? Will the goalies learn to not slide completely out of the net on slow moving passes next year? Will your AI support the puck and actually run a proper breakout next year? Will the offensive zone actually be dynamic next year where you can have cycling and crashing the net depending on the situation, rather than a static strategy set pre-game? Will actual PP formations be added to the game rather than a broken overload, an umbrella that never wants to play their position/never actually sets up correctly, and a vague “shooting” PP that lacks net-front presence?

    These are the things I want answered before I buy another NHL game. To be fair, all of EAs games are like this. They are realistic in certain ways, but then they fall short on a plethora of things that make the game more frustrating than if it had just be made as an arcade game. NHL Hitz isn’t realistic, but it’s an awesome arcade game which can be tuned to have a more realistic feel if the user chooses so. The thing that makes that game work is that the AI is consistent, they play position well, and I know that it’s an arcade game so the AI will have some hidden bonuses, but my play recognition evens the playing field. I can trust my AI to not totally mess-up when I’m properly playing my position unlike this series. That’s great, that’s what NHL used to be imo.

    Now, I can’t even leave the front of the net because I can’t trust that my weakside defender won’t start day-dreaming and start slowly gliding to outside the back post? Lol I mean, come one. You gotta give us more than that. I’m desperately trying to play this game and love it, but these shortcomings are just too much. Hundreds of hours, hundreds of slider/strategy adjustments to try and “fix” this game and everything I do eventually isn’t enough.

    Back to NHL Hitz Pro/2k10 for me. Those games just keep me coming back. Especially the 2k goalies. Man do I love them.

    Well said.
  • EA_Roger
    1468 posts Community Manager
    I've removed a couple of sarcastic comments that were derailing the thread. This is a great conversation with a lot of constructive criticism, please keep it that way.

    Thanks.
  • Oslik1000
    143 posts Member
    edited July 26
    If EA increased the team is there nobody who can spend some little time with face-off? 100% users so want the "random speed of the puck & random angle of the received puck"
    It is annoying when I can see no change this on the beta build now.

    Especially when we can see the better animation if any player is receive the puck. There is so nice added if player must do any work with the puck.
    Definitely it can be fantastic show any work with puck after face-off.
    It can EA use as any PR material!

    "Watch live how your player is receiving the bad pass after face-off battle win"

    Why? Because in real there is no good pass after face-off never. Each D-man hockey player must do a work for a puck. EA has new smooth mechanism for working with the pass. Why it is not used now!

    Player can do receive the puck better now because he is doing move against the puck. Why EA is not add so little random to the speed&angle of puck. Player will do a move automaticaly for the puck. It is so easy for programmers I think.
    Post edited by Oslik1000 on
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