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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

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  • KidShowtime1867
    1585 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    However, the manner in which these loses (and wins) can occur, can be and should be debated.

    Absolutely not.

    You either win. Or you lose.

    End of story.

    There is no 'debate'. If you think a win or loss can be 'debated' - you are part of the problem.

    People need to remember this is a video game that is attempting to virtualize the real life sport. It will NEVER be the real life sport. Regardless of how many 'ideas' the armchair developers around here feel they would implement 'easily'.

    This is - and always will be - a videogame. As such, 'videogame' things happen like clipping, glitches, bugs, etc. You have to learn to deal with it without claiming 'Ice tilt' or demanding developers get 'fired' over your inability to use a simple mechanic like DSS.

    I'm not saying 'you' as in TheMajjam.. I mean 'you' as in the collective of users who think the majority of the losses they incur are solely due to development issues.
    I have not seen the level of benefit of the doubt that some of you are giving this company in terms of 100% believing every word that they say to their customers.

    Having visited the studio a number of times and met with the actual developers - I know I'm not being lied to.

    It's one thing to paint the DDA response as a 'big company' denying something exists. But we all know NHLDev. Some people refer to him with his first name - that's how engaged Ben has been around here from time to time.

    So when Ben says DDA does not exist in NHL - I believe him because he's a nice guy and he's got no reason to lie to the community.

    If 'EA SPORTS' put out press releases saying this didn't exist - I would buy in to your assertion that we shouldn't believe everything a company says.

    However, when a person says it - a person whom some of us have met and interacted with - it carries far more weight.

    So it's not that many of us are just believing EA with a blind naiveity - we are taking Ben and the people he represents at his word.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    However, the manner in which these loses (and wins) can occur, can be and should be debated.

    Absolutely not.

    You either win. Or you lose.

    End of story.

    There is no 'debate'. If you think a win or loss can be 'debated' - you are part of the problem.

    People need to remember this is a video game that is attempting to virtualize the real life sport. It will NEVER be the real life sport. Regardless of how many 'ideas' the armchair developers around here feel they would implement 'easily'.

    This is - and always will be - a videogame. As such, 'videogame' things happen like clipping, glitches, bugs, etc. You have to learn to deal with it without claiming 'Ice tilt' or demanding developers get 'fired' over your inability to use a simple mechanic like DSS.

    I'm not saying 'you' as in TheMajjam.. I mean 'you' as in the collective of users who think the majority of the losses they incur are solely due to development issues.
    I have not seen the level of benefit of the doubt that some of you are giving this company in terms of 100% believing every word that they say to their customers.

    Having visited the studio a number of times and met with the actual developers - I know I'm not being lied to.

    It's one thing to paint the DDA response as a 'big company' denying something exists. But we all know NHLDev. Some people refer to him with his first name - that's how engaged Ben has been around here from time to time.

    So when Ben says DDA does not exist in NHL - I believe him because he's a nice guy and he's got no reason to lie to the community.

    If 'EA SPORTS' put out press releases saying this didn't exist - I would buy in to your assertion that we shouldn't believe everything a company says.

    However, when a person says it - a person whom some of us have met and interacted with - it carries far more weight.

    So it's not that many of us are just believing EA with a blind naiveity - we are taking Ben and the people he represents at his word.

    I think I'm knowledgeable enough on the mechanics of the game to know if my win or loss is deserved or not. Maybe if there weren't a plethora of one goal losses that people are complaining about when they outshoot their opponents by 50 shots with an in-zone attack time of nearly 10 minutes over their opponents, I could probably say these people are whining. However, these disparities are not rare occurrences. They always occur. Usually when people are on a streak and most certainly to a team that has no business winning that game. Whether by DDA, glitch, or bug. No one is saying developers should be fired, but there should be accountability. They -are- asking you to purchase a product with your own money. And yes, Ben might be a nice guy, and I'm not even disputing that. However, Ben is employed by EA. He has a contract with them. Ben can and can't say things, and whether you agree with the things he's said is your prerogative. It's certainly not mine.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Maybe if there weren't a plethora of one goal losses that people are complaining about when they outshoot their opponents by 50 shots with an in-zone attack time of nearly 10 minutes over their opponents, I could probably say these people are whining.

    Plethora? Seriously?

    There is a plethora of people who post screenshots of the post-game stats screen. Providing no context whatsoever.

    Simply saying, "I dominated again. Should've won"

    Like.. did you actually 'dominate?' Honestly - Go look at at post-game stats from REAL NHL games and tell me if you can discern EXACTLY what happened in those games without watching highlights or watching the game in it's entirety.

    That's right - you can't. And somehow people see these post-game screenshots as some kind of validation that there's ice tilt.

    The only thing those screenshots validate is that a LOT of users have issues with the basic mechanics of this game.

    If you dominate a player, outshooting 3:1 and dominating attack time and you STILL come out on the losing end - you CLEARLY have deficiencies in your game. Whether it be allowing shooters open ice in ridiculously high % scoring areas, or an inability to put the puck in the net yourself. That is all these screenshots show.

    It's funny how when people begin to post videos of these 'ice tilt' games - it's pretty easy pickings as to pointing out where they went wrong but the hivemind will berate you for being on EA's side.
    However, these disparities are not rare occurrences. They always occur.

    Actually, they don't always happen. They are just posted online to generate more confirmation bias for whoever OP is. That's literally the only reason these things get posted.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Oh yeah it's in the game

    Why do you guys even keep playing if the computer gives you your wins? Don't you want to earn them on your own?

    I love hockey and being 53 and not being able to play anymore this is the closest I get ..lol

    Ok. Just seems odd someone would play a game when they feel they don't have control over the outcome. To each their own though.

    Remember, for most people, this only becomes an issue when they lose.

    Although there are a few who claim they see ice tilt and complain about it even when they lose, the vast majority of the 'DDA' crowd are simply venting on the forums after a few losses.

    Especially OP. Not to be offensive here, but if you are hovering in the 650-700CR level, you're going to face some stiff competition that knows how to work this game like magic. You either have to concede defeat when it happens, or else you become a conspiracy theorist for a bloody videogame.

    I believe we are witnessing the latter.

    I think I can speak for most people who have played this game at a competition level at about what LG operates, that losing sucks, but it's not the end all, be all. Losing is going to happen, and that's to be expected. Definitely not worthy of venting in the forums. However, the manner in which these loses (and wins) can occur, can be and should be debated.

    I said it before, and I'll say it again. In the entirety of the internet, videos, forums, gaming forums, I have not seen the level of benefit of the doubt that some of you are giving this company in terms of 100% believing every word that they say to their customers. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but EA is one of those companies where a grain of salt should be taken with each and every word that comes out of the mouths of their employees. Unfortunately, they've earned that distrust.

    As much as you think it's ludicrous for people to think DDA (or whatever version of it exists out there) exists in this game even though EA employees said it doesn't, I think it's equally ludicrous for people to go all in on the EA train as they show time and time again that they are mistrustful despite what they've said about 'X' game.

    So, everyone that posts their assumptions here should just be trusted because they aren't EA? Yeah, don't get me wrong. I can understand why people feel the way they do about EA, but I'm going to believe a dev with thousands of gameplay posts here over someone with conspiracy theories.
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Actually, they don't always happen. They are just posted online to generate more confirmation bias for whoever OP is. That's literally the only reason these things get posted.

    Actually, you are wrong, these types of games always do happen. I'd really like to know how anyone could think they have a deficiency in their game when:

    - They give up under 5 scoring chances to an opponent in a single game and lose 4 - 3?
    - Or when the opponent takes a slap shot from just outside their blue line and your goalie comes sliding out way too far, only to deflect it to an opposing player who gets the rebound and puts it in an empty net ( because your goalie can't recover)
    - Or when you check an opponent into the board with two players and oddly the puck leaves his stick like a slow-moving shot that your goalie somehow misses
    - When your goalie doesn't even attempt to save shots.


    I've literally lost a game 3 - 2 when the opposing player only had 2 shots on net ( 2 SHOTS ). They attempted a cross-crease pass that deflected off his player, then my player on the other side of the net reached out with his stick and deflected it in my net. This happened clearly due to him having a low CR. I had 50 plus shots, yet lost.

    it was clearly a controller breaking moment It was one of the most ridiculous goals that made no sense. If I was fully in control and this was actually a skill based game, then I would say it's my fault, but there's no way I would call that a deficiency in my game. That's foolish. how would that be my fault?
    Post edited by Fatboyee on
  • KidShowtime1867
    1585 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Actually, you are wrong, these types of games always do happen. I'd really like to know how anyone could think they have a deficiency in their game when:

    - They give up under 5 scoring chances to an opponent in a single game and lose 4 - 3?

    If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.
    - Or when the opponent takes a slap shot from just outside their blue line and your goalie comes sliding out way too far, only to deflect it to an opposing player who gets the rebound and puts it in an empty net ( because your goalie can't recover)

    The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.
    - Or when you check an opponent into the board with two players and oddly the puck leaves his stick like a slow-moving shot that your goalie somehow misses

    Videos of this?
    - When your goalie doesn't even attempt to save shots.

    Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.


    I've literally lost a game 3 - 2 when the opposing player only had 2 shots on net ( 2 SHOTS ). They attempted a cross-crease pass that deflected off his player, then my player on the other side of the net reached out with his stick and deflected it in my net. This happened clearly due to him having a low CR.

    How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?
    It was one of the most ridiculous goals that made no sense. If I was fully in control and this was actually a skill based game, then I would say it's my fault, but there's no way I would call that a deficiency in my game. That's foolish. how would that be my fault?

    Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Maybe if there weren't a plethora of one goal losses that people are complaining about when they outshoot their opponents by 50 shots with an in-zone attack time of nearly 10 minutes over their opponents, I could probably say these people are whining.

    Plethora? Seriously?

    There is a plethora of people who post screenshots of the post-game stats screen. Providing no context whatsoever.

    Simply saying, "I dominated again. Should've won"

    Like.. did you actually 'dominate?' Honestly - Go look at at post-game stats from REAL NHL games and tell me if you can discern EXACTLY what happened in those games without watching highlights or watching the game in it's entirety.

    That's right - you can't. And somehow people see these post-game screenshots as some kind of validation that there's ice tilt.

    The only thing those screenshots validate is that a LOT of users have issues with the basic mechanics of this game.

    If you dominate a player, outshooting 3:1 and dominating attack time and you STILL come out on the losing end - you CLEARLY have deficiencies in your game. Whether it be allowing shooters open ice in ridiculously high % scoring areas, or an inability to put the puck in the net yourself. That is all these screenshots show.

    It's funny how when people begin to post videos of these 'ice tilt' games - it's pretty easy pickings as to pointing out where they went wrong but the hivemind will berate you for being on EA's side.
    However, these disparities are not rare occurrences. They always occur.

    Actually, they don't always happen. They are just posted online to generate more confirmation bias for whoever OP is. That's literally the only reason these things get posted.

    I'm not just talking about this thread. There are plenty of gaming forums that talk about this very subject, that have provided their material to satisfy their argument. Which are screenshots of the stats AND a screen of shot placement throughout the whole game. With just those two screens, I can pretty much discern what I think the outcome should be. At least people are trying to provide proof of why they think the game should have gone differently. Hell, I even opened a thread months ago and if I'm not mistaken, you're doing the same thing here as you did there..

    Tell someone who has clearly dominated the stat sheet that they don't know how to work the mechanics of the game. Not closely dominated, not just about dominated, but clearly dominated.

    This isn't mind boggling to you??

    You don't even consider maybe it's the game and not the player, but clearly to you, it's always the fault of the player. You also must be convinced that when the AI screws up, that it's always the fault of the player too, eh?

    This is why we get the same game every year. This is why the core mechanics haven't changed in eons, because EA fans like you believe that you have the perfect game, it's as good as it's going to get, and it's never, ever the fault of the way the game plays. Keep fighting the good fight, warrior.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Maybe if there weren't a plethora of one goal losses that people are complaining about when they outshoot their opponents by 50 shots with an in-zone attack time of nearly 10 minutes over their opponents, I could probably say these people are whining.

    Plethora? Seriously?

    There is a plethora of people who post screenshots of the post-game stats screen. Providing no context whatsoever.

    Simply saying, "I dominated again. Should've won"

    Like.. did you actually 'dominate?' Honestly - Go look at at post-game stats from REAL NHL games and tell me if you can discern EXACTLY what happened in those games without watching highlights or watching the game in it's entirety.

    That's right - you can't. And somehow people see these post-game screenshots as some kind of validation that there's ice tilt.

    The only thing those screenshots validate is that a LOT of users have issues with the basic mechanics of this game.

    If you dominate a player, outshooting 3:1 and dominating attack time and you STILL come out on the losing end - you CLEARLY have deficiencies in your game. Whether it be allowing shooters open ice in ridiculously high % scoring areas, or an inability to put the puck in the net yourself. That is all these screenshots show.

    It's funny how when people begin to post videos of these 'ice tilt' games - it's pretty easy pickings as to pointing out where they went wrong but the hivemind will berate you for being on EA's side.
    However, these disparities are not rare occurrences. They always occur.

    Actually, they don't always happen. They are just posted online to generate more confirmation bias for whoever OP is. That's literally the only reason these things get posted.

    I'm not just talking about this thread. There are plenty of gaming forums that talk about this very subject, that have provided their material to satisfy their argument. Which are screenshots of the stats AND a screen of shot placement throughout the whole game. With just those two screens, I can pretty much discern what I think the outcome should be. At least people are trying to provide proof of why they think the game should have gone differently. Hell, I even opened a thread months ago and if I'm not mistaken, you're doing the same thing here as you did there..

    Tell someone who has clearly dominated the stat sheet that they don't know how to work the mechanics of the game. Not closely dominated, not just about dominated, but clearly dominated.

    This isn't mind boggling to you??

    You don't even consider maybe it's the game and not the player, but clearly to you, it's always the fault of the player. You also must be convinced that when the AI screws up, that it's always the fault of the player too, eh?

    This is why we get the same game every year. This is why the core mechanics haven't changed in eons, because EA fans like you believe that you have the perfect game, it's as good as it's going to get, and it's never, ever the fault of the way the game plays. Keep fighting the good fight, warrior.

    This happens in the NHL too. Teams have been known to be outshot and still win.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    There are plenty of gaming forums that talk about this very subject, that have provided their material to satisfy their argument. Which are screenshots of the stats AND a screen of shot placement throughout the whole game. With just those two screens, I can pretty much discern what I think the outcome should be.

    No, you cannot.

    You simply cannot discern from a 'shot placement' map exactly how those shots were executed, how the accompanying play developed and more importantly - those shot maps give ZERO indication as to how the shot was contested by the defense - which plays a HUGE role.

  • EA_Roger
    1483 posts EA Community Manager
    tumblr_pk7pq1KGLi1w4877jo2_500.gif

    This conversation is always a heated one no matter what side you are on and I know that you are passionate about the game but it's important to debate constructively.
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Can't say I like the tone of your defensive posts. I'll still reply but note, I'm not smiling.
    If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.

    Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
    The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.

    Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
    Videos of this?
    No.
    Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
    No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.

    How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
    Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.

    I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.

  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Sinbin wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Maybe if there weren't a plethora of one goal losses that people are complaining about when they outshoot their opponents by 50 shots with an in-zone attack time of nearly 10 minutes over their opponents, I could probably say these people are whining.

    Plethora? Seriously?

    There is a plethora of people who post screenshots of the post-game stats screen. Providing no context whatsoever.

    Simply saying, "I dominated again. Should've won"

    Like.. did you actually 'dominate?' Honestly - Go look at at post-game stats from REAL NHL games and tell me if you can discern EXACTLY what happened in those games without watching highlights or watching the game in it's entirety.

    That's right - you can't. And somehow people see these post-game screenshots as some kind of validation that there's ice tilt.

    The only thing those screenshots validate is that a LOT of users have issues with the basic mechanics of this game.

    If you dominate a player, outshooting 3:1 and dominating attack time and you STILL come out on the losing end - you CLEARLY have deficiencies in your game. Whether it be allowing shooters open ice in ridiculously high % scoring areas, or an inability to put the puck in the net yourself. That is all these screenshots show.

    It's funny how when people begin to post videos of these 'ice tilt' games - it's pretty easy pickings as to pointing out where they went wrong but the hivemind will berate you for being on EA's side.
    However, these disparities are not rare occurrences. They always occur.

    Actually, they don't always happen. They are just posted online to generate more confirmation bias for whoever OP is. That's literally the only reason these things get posted.

    I'm not just talking about this thread. There are plenty of gaming forums that talk about this very subject, that have provided their material to satisfy their argument. Which are screenshots of the stats AND a screen of shot placement throughout the whole game. With just those two screens, I can pretty much discern what I think the outcome should be. At least people are trying to provide proof of why they think the game should have gone differently. Hell, I even opened a thread months ago and if I'm not mistaken, you're doing the same thing here as you did there..

    Tell someone who has clearly dominated the stat sheet that they don't know how to work the mechanics of the game. Not closely dominated, not just about dominated, but clearly dominated.

    This isn't mind boggling to you??

    You don't even consider maybe it's the game and not the player, but clearly to you, it's always the fault of the player. You also must be convinced that when the AI screws up, that it's always the fault of the player too, eh?

    This is why we get the same game every year. This is why the core mechanics haven't changed in eons, because EA fans like you believe that you have the perfect game, it's as good as it's going to get, and it's never, ever the fault of the way the game plays. Keep fighting the good fight, warrior.

    This happens in the NHL too. Teams have been known to be outshot and still win.

    This is absolutely true. If I outshoot a team 32 to 20 and I end up losing by one, with about a 3 minute advantage is puck possession in their zone, I will probably chalk that up to me doing well, but not finishing. I'm not talking about these kids of games. I'm talking about that ones where I outshoot my opponent with 15+ shots and a possession time of 6+ minutes. I dominate in the faceoff, took less penalties, and the game finds somewhat to have me lose.

    If this were a rare thing then I probably would chalk it up to bad luck, but it's not rare at all to completely dominate, and I mean completely.

    Sorry for the typos. On mobile.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?
    Post edited by Sinbin on
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1585 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no,

    Here's the thing my man; you are very much putting words in the mouth of NHLDev.
    Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    NHLDev didn't say you "should have had some wins after a losing streak"
    If you did lose more points than you should have due to an odd match against a current low rated player that is actually better than that and on their way up, it will even out as your next games will match relative to your updates CR and you would have a higher chance of going on a win streak until you settle into the range that is actually true to your skill.


    NHLDev is saying that after a losing streak, your CR will fall - meaning you will be matched up with lower CR's than you are used to after your losing streak - giving you an opportunity to rack up wins against lower-level opponents.

    In my opinion - your interpretation of NHLDev's comments only further cement that fact that this is simply a conspiracy agenda you're trying to push.

    I'm not sure why this discussion is allowed to continue, tbh. How constructive are the continuing discussions around a conspiracy theory going to be for this community?
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.

    I think you are assuming you know me when you really don't. I probably do play this game more then yourself, as I've been playing for years ( all the way back to 1992 ). Here's a little background on where I'm coming from. I've also worked on some sports game pitches and reviewed sports game designs (I worked in the game industry for 20 years). I also worked with quite a few people that were involved with the NHL series years back (Not to mention NBA live before the revamp, MLB & Fifa games all from EA). In fact I still know some people working at EA.

    I'd argue I'm more accountable for my play then you are, as I have no problem with getting beat by playing bad defense and being outplayed by someone better, its what drives me to want to play the game more. The challenge of trying to beat someone better then myself, I find nothing more enjoyable. What I have a problem with (and other players posting here) are finding, is we are sometimes not getting beat by better players, we're getting beat by the game itself. I'm assuming with the purpose of making things easier for casuals or driving up retention is why things are the way they currently sit. Something is not right when I have a harder time scoring against low ranked players, then i do players above me in CR.

    I see you didn't pay any attention to the items i listed above. Ignore for a second about a single system like DDA controlling these factors. You have to admit the items i listed above do exist, and do impact what happens in a game, and lastly are not in the control of either player, correct? Otherwise, explain to me how i can cleanly win a faceoff without touching the controller? That does & can happen, and there must be a reason for it. I'd be really surprised if you haven't seen this happen.

  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no,

    Here's the thing my man; you are very much putting words in the mouth of NHLDev.
    Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    NHLDev didn't say you "should have had some wins after a losing streak"
    If you did lose more points than you should have due to an odd match against a current low rated player that is actually better than that and on their way up, it will even out as your next games will match relative to your updates CR and you would have a higher chance of going on a win streak until you settle into the range that is actually true to your skill.


    NHLDev is saying that after a losing streak, your CR will fall - meaning you will be matched up with lower CR's than you are used to after your losing streak - giving you an opportunity to rack up wins against lower-level opponents.

    In my opinion - your interpretation of NHLDev's comments only further cement that fact that this is simply a conspiracy agenda you're trying to push.

    I'm not sure why this discussion is allowed to continue, tbh. How constructive are the continuing discussions around a conspiracy theory going to be for this community?

    Common now, I could have quoted the front page like I did the last time I asked about this. I'm not getting into a battle of semantics. The bottom line is, if I'm playing people of an equal CR to what I have, why should it be easier or harder to win? So what is my actual skill level, is it what CR i drop to, or what CR I max out as? What the NHL dev actually said was:
    • "If you did lose more points than you should have due to an odd match against a current low rated player that is actually better than that and on their way up, it will even out as your next games will match relative to your updates CR and you would have a higher chance of going on a win streak until you settle into the range that is actually true to your skill."

    My question is why would i have a higher chance of a "win streak" and what exactly are the factors involved in that happening. Regardless of that, there are still many elements in the games I think players should be in control of, which prevents the feeling of battling the game instead, of battling better players.
  • EA_Roger
    1483 posts EA Community Manager
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    • "If you did lose more points than you should have due to an odd match against a current low rated player that is actually better than that and on their way up, it will even out as your next games will match relative to your updates CR and you would have a higher chance of going on a win streak until you settle into the range that is actually true to your skill."

    My question is why would i have a higher chance of a "win streak" and what exactly are the factors involved in that happening. Regardless of that, there are still many elements in the games I think players should be in control of, which prevents the feeling of battling the game instead, of battling better players.

    My understanding of what NHLDev is saying here is that you if you are playing below your CR you have a higher chance of winning several games in a row since you are playing with players that should be less skillful than you. Not that the game helps you in any shape or form. This goes for any game, from CS GO to Overwatch to FUT. Granted there is some team play involved in some of theses examples but if you take a pro CS Go player that is playing at the lowest rank possible (Silver 1) it is highly likely that he will go on a winning streak until reaching a rank that matches his skillset better.
  • EA_Roger wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    • "If you did lose more points than you should have due to an odd match against a current low rated player that is actually better than that and on their way up, it will even out as your next games will match relative to your updates CR and you would have a higher chance of going on a win streak until you settle into the range that is actually true to your skill."

    My question is why would i have a higher chance of a "win streak" and what exactly are the factors involved in that happening. Regardless of that, there are still many elements in the games I think players should be in control of, which prevents the feeling of battling the game instead, of battling better players.

    My understanding of what NHLDev is saying here is that you if you are playing below your CR you have a higher chance of winning several games in a row since you are playing with players that should be less skillful than you. Not that the game helps you in any shape or form. This goes for any game, from CS GO to Overwatch to FUT. Granted there is some team play involved in some of theses examples but if you take a pro CS Go player that is playing at the lowest rank possible (Silver 1) it is highly likely that he will go on a winning streak until reaching a rank that matches his skillset better.

    Ok so playing lower ranked players is one thing, that I'm fine with. However can you confirm, or an EA dev confirm with absolute certainty to all the people purchasing this game, that the game code, match making server, or otherwise, does nothing at all to assist/help players that are struggling?
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