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I take it back......

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After playing the beta, I take back all the bad things I said about 19. I honesty didn’t think it could get worse but it’s in the game.

Replies

  • Tonysl79
    518 posts Member
    It’s just a beta version they have plenty of time to fix ... yeah right
  • TreborMalkin
    272 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Tonysl79 wrote: »
    It’s just a beta version they have plenty of time to fix ... yeah right

    Scary thing is we loved the beta last year.

    They say goalies are better? I just took a wild slap shot from the left wing vs Tampa playing as Pittsburgh Vasilevsky turned as it got close to his glove and ushered it into the net.

    The shut down some one timers but cross crease is still money.

    Other than a bad bottom scoreboard you skate to the top of the screen 90% of the time why divert your eyes down.

    Announcer is horrible. Only one the kept was the one that made me cringe in Ferraro.

    Skating seems choppy to me but could have been my internet.

    Picking lines on a dead puck is still a crap shoot if it goes or stays allowing you to pick.

    I just don’t see any advances.


    I do like the post game stat pages adding hits and goalie assists and face off stats is an advancement.
  • G1ll1es
    38 posts Member
    Its the same game with different animations. Its the exact same game with different animations and a.i programming. The code written to control the way the game runs on its current engine is largely the sane as in almost every single one of EAs NHL series video games.

    Need I say more?

    But hey its the only HOCKEY game we got right?
  • Tonysl79
    518 posts Member
    All the people complaining about the beta will be playing nhl 20 come September and we all know it including ea. Everyones critiques are just bluster cause whatever sells is what’s going to be in the game period.
  • twoorb
    52 posts Member
    Tonysl79 wrote: »
    All the people complaining about the beta will be playing nhl 20 come September and we all know it including ea. Everyones critiques are just bluster cause whatever sells is what’s going to be in the game period.

    Not me - I've only owned 2015 and 2019 on current gen and felt like I got totally burned on both.
    Done.

    Sticking with PS3 versions I enjoy much more (especially the custom rosters/music)
  • kezz123
    571 posts Member
    out of curiosity, why wouldnt the cross crease be money?

    Seems to me thats a realistic part of hockey. Its one of the thing most defended against in NHL because it IS money. Players regularly try for cross crease but often they are blocked or deflected by D. on the flip side, this is assuming the D has any half decent tools to block said cross crease when they are in position.

    the "counter" to people who try bad cross crease should be turnovers.
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    out of curiosity, why wouldnt the cross crease be money?

    Seems to me thats a realistic part of hockey. Its one of the thing most defended against in NHL because it IS money. Players regularly try for cross crease but often they are blocked or deflected by D. on the flip side, this is assuming the D has any half decent tools to block said cross crease when they are in position.

    the "counter" to people who try bad cross crease should be turnovers.

    Cross creases and passes to the crease from behind the net should indeed be money. Up to the D to prevent those instead of running around everywhere like headless chickens. Keep players to the outside and/or tied up near the slot.

  • I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

  • I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

  • flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I’d agree that there isn’t a “bubble” per say, but I’d argue that this sensation is very much real and its due to a lack of contextual animations that would allow someone throw a hit on a lateral target by driving their shoulder or hip into the attacking player.

    Sure, it requires decent twitch skill to manipulate the contact (or lack thereof) into being so minuscule that you simply fly by, but it’s definitely an area that needs to be addressed in upcoming games because there are more than enough situations in the game that result in a forward slipping by that would’ve resulted in a rub-out in real life.

    You explained how to virtually defend these situations well, and the sad reality yet again is that body position still doesn’t matter enough, and that as a defender you’re going to have to play many situations drastically more passive in the game than you would in real life. It’s not game-breaking, it’s certainly defendable, but it’s also an area of the game that I think we can all agree could get better.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I’d agree that there isn’t a “bubble” per say, but I’d argue that this sensation is very much real and its due to a lack of contextual animations that would allow someone throw a hit on a lateral target by driving their shoulder or hip into the attacking player.

    Sure, it requires decent twitch skill to manipulate the contact (or lack thereof) into being so minuscule that you simply fly by, but it’s definitely an area that needs to be addressed in upcoming games because there are more than enough situations in the game that result in a forward slipping by that would’ve resulted in a rub-out in real life.

    You explained how to virtually defend these situations well, and the sad reality yet again is that body position still doesn’t matter enough, and that as a defender you’re going to have to play many situations drastically more passive in the game than you would in real life. It’s not game-breaking, it’s certainly defendable, but it’s also an area of the game that I think we can all agree could get better.

    Agreed 100%.

    There’s a passiveness on defence that should evolve with more contextual defensive/hitting animations.
  • untouchable_BF1
    757 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I’d agree that there isn’t a “bubble” per say, but I’d argue that this sensation is very much real and its due to a lack of contextual animations that would allow someone throw a hit on a lateral target by driving their shoulder or hip into the attacking player.

    Sure, it requires decent twitch skill to manipulate the contact (or lack thereof) into being so minuscule that you simply fly by, but it’s definitely an area that needs to be addressed in upcoming games because there are more than enough situations in the game that result in a forward slipping by that would’ve resulted in a rub-out in real life.

    You explained how to virtually defend these situations well, and the sad reality yet again is that body position still doesn’t matter enough, and that as a defender you’re going to have to play many situations drastically more passive in the game than you would in real life. It’s not game-breaking, it’s certainly defendable, but it’s also an area of the game that I think we can all agree could get better.

    Agreed 100%.

    There’s a passiveness on defence that should evolve with more contextual defensive/hitting animations.

    Im really hoping the “next-gen” can get those hip/shoulder checks where you can actually “carry” someone into the boards like on a rush where a guy tries to go wide and you properly maintain a gap and ride them out into the boards.

    I think situations like that are where people experience the “bubble” because there just isn’t any hitting animations that can do what we expect to see irl, and then they get kind of a whiffed check animation and the guy blows by. With enough playtime/desire to actually be good, you learn to recognize the game’s shortcomings and adapt to a more passive style, but I really hope in the next 3-5 years hits like that become reality.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I'm not saying it's not defendable nor does it happen in every instance but it's very inconsistent and makes for a very unrealistic situation.

    In real life a defender can alter momentum of a forward by using the body, for example riding them into the boards or using their body to change the forwards direction. If multiple players bunch up there is rubbing and grabbing and pushing around which is rarely seen in an ea game. Board play is hit or miss on actually pinning someone and is unreliable.

    My main point is when you get to the higher levels of opponents with the current state of the ai, the best way to defend is going to be skill zoning because of the forward has more tools to spin and rag and the defensive abilities are nerfed. It's boring and hockey iq isnt really needed to be a high level player.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I’d agree that there isn’t a “bubble” per say, but I’d argue that this sensation is very much real and its due to a lack of contextual animations that would allow someone throw a hit on a lateral target by driving their shoulder or hip into the attacking player.

    Sure, it requires decent twitch skill to manipulate the contact (or lack thereof) into being so minuscule that you simply fly by, but it’s definitely an area that needs to be addressed in upcoming games because there are more than enough situations in the game that result in a forward slipping by that would’ve resulted in a rub-out in real life.

    You explained how to virtually defend these situations well, and the sad reality yet again is that body position still doesn’t matter enough, and that as a defender you’re going to have to play many situations drastically more passive in the game than you would in real life. It’s not game-breaking, it’s certainly defendable, but it’s also an area of the game that I think we can all agree could get better.

    And this is what allows and to an extent, encourages selfish play in a team environment. I too have resorted to a very passive style the last 3 years or so to get more results and slightly more predictable outcomes. But there's always that moment where you are like, "REALLY? That worked the last two times, and now, nope....."
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    out of curiosity, why wouldnt the cross crease be money?

    Seems to me thats a realistic part of hockey. Its one of the thing most defended against in NHL because it IS money. Players regularly try for cross crease but often they are blocked or deflected by D. on the flip side, this is assuming the D has any half decent tools to block said cross crease when they are in position.

    the "counter" to people who try bad cross crease should be turnovers.

    You'd be surprised by how many consider cross crease and one time goals as cheating, while their top cheddar short side from the top of the circle is fine lol.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I’d agree that there isn’t a “bubble” per say, but I’d argue that this sensation is very much real and its due to a lack of contextual animations that would allow someone throw a hit on a lateral target by driving their shoulder or hip into the attacking player.

    Sure, it requires decent twitch skill to manipulate the contact (or lack thereof) into being so minuscule that you simply fly by, but it’s definitely an area that needs to be addressed in upcoming games because there are more than enough situations in the game that result in a forward slipping by that would’ve resulted in a rub-out in real life.

    You explained how to virtually defend these situations well, and the sad reality yet again is that body position still doesn’t matter enough, and that as a defender you’re going to have to play many situations drastically more passive in the game than you would in real life. It’s not game-breaking, it’s certainly defendable, but it’s also an area of the game that I think we can all agree could get better.

    Not with the current engine and/or code it wont.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I thought the beta was awesome.

    Not sure how anyone can have any gripes other than the obvious issues EA has already stated they will fix.

    EA is putting more emphasis on twitch skill whereas historically, twitch skill was not a necessary skill to have as simply understanding the animations, how they play out and knowing the typical result was how one typically dominated in the NHL series. (Some users mistakenly think this is some kind of ‘hockey IQ’)

    With NHL20 - having good twitch response combined with a good understanding of the game mechanics is a recipe for being very good at this game.

    I think much of the population may have spent the last few years ‘dominating’ or being successful with the ‘old school’ way of playing the NHL games and now they are seeing themselves take losses from players with incredible twitch skill but not necessarily using the “hockey plays” they themselves are accustomed to seeing so everything gets labelled “Ice tilt” or “bad development”.

    Sure, the game has issues. It always will. It’ll never be perfect.

    But I think much of the complaining about this year’s game will simply be a changing of the guard from those who “thought” they wanted very realistic gameplay with an emphasis on twitch skill and those who actually know how to win with that toolset.

    If you consider spinning in the corner, lt abuse, ragging, player protected by a bubble, slow defensive pivots, ai bunching up, ect as "players with better twitch skills" improving the overall game then we will have to agree to disagree. Making good hockey plays with the addition of fast twitch plays should be rewarded, not abusing bad mechanics. This beta is no better then 19 imo.

    There is no “bubble”.

    I have seen players who have great twitch skill and know how to maneuver their player to maximize positive outcomes.

    Ok, we'll agree to disagree again but there is certainly a bubble and low to mid range speed. The forward curls his stick back and faces away from the defender so the defender going for a check "bounces" off. It promotes ragging and circling in the corner abusing a awful mechanic. I dont know why they nerfed hitting but it makes for very boring game play.

    I'm surprised youd say it's not there when it's very obvious and I'm sure it will plague 20 for the entire cycle.

    I’ve seen players do this. Again - a bubble would imply it’s not defendable.

    When someone is doing that to me, I use DSS to discourage them from making a play in one direction - and I ease up on LS to maximize my agility to match their movements (I’ll say it again - everyone is going to hard on LS) and I then use incidental contact (via proper body positioning) to maximize the chance I get the outcome I want.

    I think people perceive the “bubble” because they want a one-shot solution to defending a puck carrier.

    The reality is that EA Is evolving their engine to separate body from stick in terms of animations AND control.

    This means there’s no longer a one-button solution to defending.

    I'm not saying it's not defendable nor does it happen in every instance but it's very inconsistent and makes for a very unrealistic situation.

    In real life a defender can alter momentum of a forward by using the body, for example riding them into the boards or using their body to change the forwards direction. If multiple players bunch up there is rubbing and grabbing and pushing around which is rarely seen in an ea game. Board play is hit or miss on actually pinning someone and is unreliable.

    My main point is when you get to the higher levels of opponents with the current state of the ai, the best way to defend is going to be skill zoning because of the forward has more tools to spin and rag and the defensive abilities are nerfed. It's boring and hockey iq isnt really needed to be a high level player.

    I’m not sure I buy in to the notion that “skill zoning” is necessarily a bad thing.

    I mean, there’s definitely something wrong with only controlling one player in the d-zone if the offensive player is passing it around using various players and methods of offence.

    However, if my opponent is trying to rag it with one player - I’m going to stop his progress to where I know he wants to go.

    I’m not going to switch players if he doesn’t pass to anyone else.

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