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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Defense slow to respond/turn around??

Replies

  • Played a few games on defense again last night, half the times there was a turnover or something and I'd turn and pivot to go the other way I'd barely be able to move or stop completely. There also seemed to be no acceleration at all.

    I don't understand how this is a thing. This doesn't happen when I play forward and am covering on defense, this is exclusive to picking RD/LD or something. It's bizarre and needs to be addressed.
  • I don't mind it. Except it's too slow to react when I take control of the player. I don't mind being turned around like that but the delay is what is a bit bothersome.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • NHLDev
    1370 posts EA NHL Developer
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    That’s awesome - thanks!
  • This is because in 19 huge defenders are playing like forwards, are faster than danglers or snipers. I think, you cannot play 6'4'' 250 lb. DD and expect to turn around and start accelerating in a moment. It seems that finally they fixed it now in 20.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    This is because in 19 huge defenders are playing like forwards, are faster than danglers or snipers. I think, you cannot play 6'4'' 250 lb. DD and expect to turn around and start accelerating in a moment. It seems that finally they fixed it now in 20.

    Why should I not expect to be athletic? Just because a build is larger doesn't mean they should be handicapped. There are plenty of professional athletes that are larger than the league average size and they move just as well and sometimes even better than their counterparts.

    That is why these cookie cutter, lame builds need to go and be replaced with the old system of fully customizable EASHL player builds.

    Plus who decided that a certain build type should come with certain athletic restrictions and bonuses anyways?

    If EA is so hell bent on being balanced, they should just make every build type be the same height and weight and all have identical skating attributes instead of imposing varying degrees of hidden influencers onto different builds.

  • renamed57635
    201 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.
  • CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.
  • Ampereturn
    47 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.

    Of course, almost every defender wants to be huge and hit forwards on ice but at the same time they also want to be fast and agile. Forget it!

    Moreover, every defender should be aware that skating towards the player with the intention of crashing into him is nothing more than roughing and the penalty for at least 5 minutes should be called, in some cases a game misconduct. In 19 hitting is overpowered, so I'm glad, that in 20 we have some options as a forwards to do skating smart and evade from some crashing hits when penalty is not called by referee because the game cannot recognize that this is roughing!

    So if you want to be more agile defender with more speed, do some adaptions to your build, decrease your height and weight, but many defenders definitely don't, because all they want to do is bump and hit into everyone.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.

    Of course, almost every defender wants to be huge and hit forwards on ice but at the same time they also want to be fast and agile. Forget it!

    Moreover, every defender should be aware that skating towards the player with the intention of crashing into him is nothing more than roughing and the penalty for at least 5 minutes should be called, in some cases a game misconduct. In 19 hitting is overpowered, so I'm glad, that in 20 we have some options as a forwards to do skating smart and evade from some crashing hits when penalty is not called by referee because the game cannot recognize that this is roughing!

    So if you want to be more agile defender with more speed, do some adaptions to your build, decrease your height and weight, but many defenders definitely don't, because all they want to do is bump and hit into everyone.

    Currently, as it is, no one likes to use a defensive defensemen. They are too slow and turn like trucks. Funny thing, they’re are big defensemen in the NHL that are quite agile with a bit a speed. I use a sniper on defense. I don’t see a reason why to use a defensemen class. IMO, they’re all quite bad for maybe except puck moving defenseman but that class usually gets me buried a lot.

    Expect people to run forwards at the defense position again because they didn’t tune the classes as far as I know.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.

    Of course, almost every defender wants to be huge and hit forwards on ice but at the same time they also want to be fast and agile. Forget it!

    Moreover, every defender should be aware that skating towards the player with the intention of crashing into him is nothing more than roughing and the penalty for at least 5 minutes should be called, in some cases a game misconduct. In 19 hitting is overpowered, so I'm glad, that in 20 we have some options as a forwards to do skating smart and evade from some crashing hits when penalty is not called by referee because the game cannot recognize that this is roughing!

    So if you want to be more agile defender with more speed, do some adaptions to your build, decrease your height and weight, but many defenders definitely don't, because all they want to do is bump and hit into everyone.

    Currently, as it is, no one likes to use a defensive defensemen. They are too slow and turn like trucks. Funny thing, they’re are big defensemen in the NHL that are quite agile with a bit a speed. I use a sniper on defense. I don’t see a reason why to use a defensemen class. IMO, they’re all quite bad for maybe except puck moving defenseman but that class usually gets me buried a lot.

    Expect people to run forwards at the defense position again because they didn’t tune the classes as far as I know.

    Far as I know only tunings done were more range in height/weight per class. Not sure if it applies to all classes though.

    For competitive play I usually run a 2 way d man. If the other team is running mostly danglers and snipers, I'll use the puck moving D to have a chance to keep up. As it is almost every defensive class is bad in one way or another. Besides with the way curling your stick can negate most physical contact way more often than it should, there isn't much use in a physical class. I have used dangler quite a few times on D and it is surprisingly effective. You get great wrist shots from the point and pass better than any defensive class build.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Currently, as it is, no one likes to use a defensive defensemen. They are too slow and turn like trucks.

    If you're pushing LS to 100% radius at all times, DD is absolutely a terrible build to use.

    However, if you manage your LS appropriately and utilize tools like DSS and proper body positioning, Defensive Defensman can be a very effective build to use.

    I think this is the case with each build; they all require certain adjustments to your play-style in order to get the most out of the build.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.

    Of course, almost every defender wants to be huge and hit forwards on ice but at the same time they also want to be fast and agile. Forget it!

    Moreover, every defender should be aware that skating towards the player with the intention of crashing into him is nothing more than roughing and the penalty for at least 5 minutes should be called, in some cases a game misconduct. In 19 hitting is overpowered, so I'm glad, that in 20 we have some options as a forwards to do skating smart and evade from some crashing hits when penalty is not called by referee because the game cannot recognize that this is roughing!

    So if you want to be more agile defender with more speed, do some adaptions to your build, decrease your height and weight, but many defenders definitely don't, because all they want to do is bump and hit into everyone.

    You must have read someone elses post or mistakenly quoted me because absolutely nothing you typed has any correlation to what I was referencing. I would suggest to proofread or be more accurate when quoting others to avoid confusion and misinterpretation.


    To respond to your interesting opinion, and it's safe to assume that you play forward by your overly bias comments, I would like to point out that top clubs and players do not, i repeat do not go around looking to hit everything. They use body positioning. If good, smart players would just headhunt, the good forwards would easily avoid the hit or do the unimaginable and pass the puck, pulling the defender out of position.

    If players are constantly getting hit, it is user error as they are putting themselves in those vulnerable positions. Learning to read and recognize the play early and using your teammates is quite beneficial instead of hoping for EA to either handicap defensemen further or make forwards even more op than they currently are.

  • MooseHunter10
    402 posts Member
    edited August 2019
    Compare 2way F and 2way D.

    To create the same overall as TWF, TWD gives:
    +12 Durability
    +8 Fighting
    +7 BodyCheck
    +5 Balance
    +4 Strength
    +3 Shotblock, Discipline


    How many people are looking for extra Durability, Fighting and Checking, when their #1 job is to not give up breakaways after their forwards make bad turnovers at the blueline.

    The builds are utter garbage, anyone who plays Defense with a defensive class is handicapping themselves. This wasn't corrected through an ENTIRE year, and now we have a new release with the same trash D classes.

    Like the posters above, I primarily use Sniper/Dangler at D, but will occasionally use TWF as my "stay at home D" build.

    Suggestion:
    Sniper's minimum height changes to 5'11. Loses all skating bonuses.
    Dangler loses Speed, gains Accel/Agility. Can stay 5'7".
    New Class Speedster - current sniper without the shot. Maybe more stick checking. Think Michael Grabner.

    Need a Skating + Interceptions/StickCheck D build. I would expect anyone using DD/TWD is using it for their interceptions more than anything else. DD can remain as the physical + interceptions pylon, would make TWD the skating + interceptions.

    EQUAL FIGHTING SKILL AND DURABILITY FOR ALL CLASSES (except enforcer)

    EASHL player
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Currently, as it is, no one likes to use a defensive defensemen. They are too slow and turn like trucks.

    If you're pushing LS to 100% radius at all times, DD is absolutely a terrible build to use.

    However, if you manage your LS appropriately and utilize tools like DSS and proper body positioning, Defensive Defensman can be a very effective build to use.

    I think this is the case with each build; they all require certain adjustments to your play-style in order to get the most out of the build.

    I’m not pushing LS 100% of the time as a defensive dman. The class speed and agility are bad. You know why speed is an important stat for defensemen? Because in NHL 19, nudging opponents was too effective. Times when teams would dump the puck in my corner and id go get it a smaller forward with great speed will just nudge and nudge and nudge me off the off. Same reason Power Fowards are bad and aren’t used in 6s. Too slow and easy to bump off. DSS works well with any class and that’s not going to be the saving grace for defensive dman.

    With a sniper a defense you get great speed, agility and has a shooting stats. Good positioning even with a sniper at defense is just as effective as a good positioned defensive dman without the bad stats. Plus, I might be wrong, but the sniper might have better passing stats too. An important stat for breaking out the puck.

    Even with bumps being nerfed in 20, the sniper at defense will still be the way to go IMO.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Ampereturn wrote: »
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Not sure why the LT changes needed to effect the defensive side of the puck.

    You can thank the LT’ers for this little hiccup.

    Only because it was for the Beta. In the final product it is separated and only impacts the puck carrier.

    Hopefully the agility with the puck and speed with the puck will be tuned down to something more realistic for the final product.

    Another major issue needing addressed is how players with their backs and heads turned away from the puck intercept pucks. As with all the backwards skating with the puck and spin o rama exploiting.

    I disagree speed and agility with the puck is perfect at the moment, just tune the defense to be a little more fluid.

    Oh please. You must be a forward because no defenseman would utter such silliness. EA will never give defense builds any special attention or tune them to be par with forward builds because it would require forwards to actually put forth some effort and not rely on their op stats to play the game for them. Plus it defies physics and common sense to have more speed and agility while maintaing possession of something.

    An example would be at the allstar game skills competition. Place the contestants doing the same skating drill outside the perimeter of the rink but now include having them to travel with the puck. Not a single one of them would duplicate their times when running the course without the puck.

    Of course, almost every defender wants to be huge and hit forwards on ice but at the same time they also want to be fast and agile. Forget it!

    Moreover, every defender should be aware that skating towards the player with the intention of crashing into him is nothing more than roughing and the penalty for at least 5 minutes should be called, in some cases a game misconduct. In 19 hitting is overpowered, so I'm glad, that in 20 we have some options as a forwards to do skating smart and evade from some crashing hits when penalty is not called by referee because the game cannot recognize that this is roughing!

    So if you want to be more agile defender with more speed, do some adaptions to your build, decrease your height and weight, but many defenders definitely don't, because all they want to do is bump and hit into everyone.

    Currently, as it is, no one likes to use a defensive defensemen. They are too slow and turn like trucks. Funny thing, they’re are big defensemen in the NHL that are quite agile with a bit a speed. I use a sniper on defense. I don’t see a reason why to use a defensemen class. IMO, they’re all quite bad for maybe except puck moving defenseman but that class usually gets me buried a lot.

    Expect people to run forwards at the defense position again because they didn’t tune the classes as far as I know.

    Far as I know only tunings done were more range in height/weight per class. Not sure if it applies to all classes though.

    For competitive play I usually run a 2 way d man. If the other team is running mostly danglers and snipers, I'll use the puck moving D to have a chance to keep up. As it is almost every defensive class is bad in one way or another. Besides with the way curling your stick can negate most physical contact way more often than it should, there isn't much use in a physical class. I have used dangler quite a few times on D and it is surprisingly effective. You get great wrist shots from the point and pass better than any defensive class build.

    I used dangler before sniper at defense but found sniper better because they’re a bit stronger and have a much better shot.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    The class speed and agility are bad.

    Not if it's utilized properly.

    In order to maximize speed and agility for any build, you need to be aware of how your player moves around the ice.

    For example;

    Say you are an Offensive Defenceman. What kind of 'routes' are you skating? Are you properly anticipating the path of the play/puck and maneuvering your player in a way that minimizes any animations that are attempting to shift your entire body weight? ie: stopping and/or changing direction on a dime?

    I see TONS of players who give ZERO thought to how they move their player around the ice. They take a direct line to the puck/puck carrier every time. Different builds will have different direct-line speed but those speeds are affected by the path you're taking.

    If you are going direct-line to a puck carrier but you just pulled a maneuver that involved a complete redirection of your player's body momentum; the speed in which you get there will not be as fast as a player who properly anticipated the play and took a route that involved as little shifts in momentum as possible.

    There are a lot of times I will see my own teammates or players in drop-ins continuously stopping on a dime, redirecting their entire body weight in the opposite direction because they have a 'staight line' approach to playing the game and they will let out a big SIGH in the micrphone, followed by 'this game sucks' followed by 'my player is SO SLOW'.

    No thought given to the route. No thought given to momentum and minimal fidelity on LS - just 100% go go go all the time.

    There's a lot of people playing like that and then turning around complaining about speed and agility.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    The class speed and agility are bad.

    Not if it's utilized properly.

    In order to maximize speed and agility for any build, you need to be aware of how your player moves around the ice.

    For example;

    Say you are an Offensive Defenceman. What kind of 'routes' are you skating? Are you properly anticipating the path of the play/puck and maneuvering your player in a way that minimizes any animations that are attempting to shift your entire body weight? ie: stopping and/or changing direction on a dime?

    I see TONS of players who give ZERO thought to how they move their player around the ice. They take a direct line to the puck/puck carrier every time. Different builds will have different direct-line speed but those speeds are affected by the path you're taking.

    If you are going direct-line to a puck carrier but you just pulled a maneuver that involved a complete redirection of your player's body momentum; the speed in which you get there will not be as fast as a player who properly anticipated the play and took a route that involved as little shifts in momentum as possible.

    There are a lot of times I will see my own teammates or players in drop-ins continuously stopping on a dime, redirecting their entire body weight in the opposite direction because they have a 'staight line' approach to playing the game and they will let out a big SIGH in the micrphone, followed by 'this game sucks' followed by 'my player is SO SLOW'.

    No thought given to the route. No thought given to momentum and minimal fidelity on LS - just 100% go go go all the time.

    There's a lot of people playing like that and then turning around complaining about speed and agility.

    While this isn't bad advice by any means, it isn't remotely my problem. DD is too clunky for when you need to react quickly, or re position quickly to a developing play. I feel like an interactive pylon while I see Danglers and Snipers whizzing by. They start and stop very quickly and can break free from a covered position to open ice making it hard for a DD to keep up with him and shadow him.
  • DD is too clunky for when you need to react quickly, or re position quickly to a developing play.

    Which is why you need to radically change how you use a DD so that instead of reacting, you're anticipating and adjusting.
    I feel like an interactive pylon while I see Danglers and Snipers whizzing by. They start and stop very quickly and can break free from a covered position to open ice making it hard for a DD to keep up with him and shadow him.

    "Shadowing" a player should only involve being in between him and the net - not chasing him around and reacting to every twitch movement he does.
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