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Save this series and bring back attributes!

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  • This game was HUGE 10 years ago! Cardboard cutout players and HUT have destroyed EASHL. Bring them back!


    attributes is like #26 on the list of things that ruined this game.

  • Scenario: You get the game at release, your friend gets it at xmas. You're maxed out, and your friend drags down your team, and generally has a less enjoyable experience.

    Thats pretty crap isnt it?

    source: see NBA 2k.

    This is why I have no problem picking up NHL three-four months down the line. My guy will be on par with every day one hardcore player. Sucks for him that he will only have more cosmetics than me but props to the level playing field.

    Why would it or should it "suck for him" though? Thats what I dont get....99.99999% of games are this way. You can play 1000000 hours of counter strike, if I join tomorrow, I have access to the same things as you....BUT your experience in game and practice should hopefully give you the edge...if not, you might just be a terrible player which is also perfectly fine....not everyone is meant to be top 100 in the world.
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    This game was HUGE 10 years ago! Cardboard cutout players and HUT have destroyed EASHL. Bring them back!


    attributes is like #26 on the list of things that ruined this game.

    Completely agree. Attributes are very far down the contribution list of what this game what it currently is. Bringing back attributes will not change the mentality or how the game is played. Will not change the Disney on Ice skating.
  • This game was HUGE 10 years ago! Cardboard cutout players and HUT have destroyed EASHL. Bring them back!

    That was a long time ago, players have moved on, EA needs to lure new players in with something exciting and realistic, NHL 19 and 20 are not it, like I said before this franchise is done, it will never recover and especially not return to the glory days.
  • rogers2487 wrote: »
    Catering to casual players is always a sign a game is failing. How are you going to maintain a loyal player base when you treat someone who has never played before the same, or in nhls case better, than someone who plays thousands of games a season. I'm not saying we should play against eachother, that is the point of divisions, but it definately devalues the game for people who put in the time and effort when someone can buy the game months down the road and jump right in, furthermore with ice tilt, momentum and in game handicap effects stronger than ever, an amature can, most of the time beat, hardcore players by getting the craziest bounces and weak goals.

    And i think the results speak for themselves, look at other EA games madden and fifa, or other competitive games like fortnite CoD, overwatch, or league. They have a huge presence in the ESport market. They also dont handicap the game and keep casuals on the level playing with competitors. The point is NHL is bulit for fair weather fans who generally move on after a month of playing which is why the game is obsolete by thanksgiving.

    It wasn't about catering to casuals. They wanted the classes to actual mimic what they should be doing but sadly that didn't get the results. That way it promoted team play more than 1 man shows.

    They could easily bring back the attribute system and just give everyone a Leg 3 worth of points to work with, but chances are people would cry because they liked the no life and advantages they held over others for a couple of months. ( i would cheese Leg 3 in 2 weeks)

    When we could great our own players they felt like they had higher stats where as the created players we have no don't seem to be more than 3rd to barely 2nd line plugs.

  • TITAN_NHL wrote: »
    rogers2487 wrote: »
    Catering to casual players is always a sign a game is failing. How are you going to maintain a loyal player base when you treat someone who has never played before the same, or in nhls case better, than someone who plays thousands of games a season. I'm not saying we should play against eachother, that is the point of divisions, but it definately devalues the game for people who put in the time and effort when someone can buy the game months down the road and jump right in, furthermore with ice tilt, momentum and in game handicap effects stronger than ever, an amature can, most of the time beat, hardcore players by getting the craziest bounces and weak goals.

    And i think the results speak for themselves, look at other EA games madden and fifa, or other competitive games like fortnite CoD, overwatch, or league. They have a huge presence in the ESport market. They also dont handicap the game and keep casuals on the level playing with competitors. The point is NHL is bulit for fair weather fans who generally move on after a month of playing which is why the game is obsolete by thanksgiving.

    Yep the game is catered to the casuals who will only play a month or 2 but it doesnt matter how long people play to EA, they just want the sale in the first place. While the rest of us have to get stuck with the crap for the next 10 months after the casuals leave.

    Esports with NHL will absolutely never reach the point that games like league, overwatch, fortnite etc. Not until EA can make a balanced game and have actual consistency in gameplay mechanics. There is way too much RNG, connection issues, and handicapping to ever make this game more than something you just screw around on when you get an urge to play hockey with some buddies, and cant be taken seriously competitive

    If this game is catering to casuals, why do I see the same people play it year-round? You say you keep playing after the casuals leave. If that were true, you, being a hardcore player, wouldn't keep playing, right? NHL doesn't cater to casuals any more now than it did previously. There's still plenty to grind for.

    This game is quite balanced. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the truly skilled players are going to beat a casual player almost every time. There is no handicapping, but of course, RNG plays a role. It does in most every game. It's a necessity. NHL is not so RNG based that skill doesn't matter. If you think it is, you're probably not as skilled as you think. Connection issues are most likely on your end. Especially since the change to dedicated servers. You see way fewer complaints now.

    There's a severe lack of accountability with people these days. I play with random people frequently and am always surprised if someone takes the blame. In almost every instance they blame the game when clearly it was their fault. Take a penalty, never their fault for poking from behind. Miss a wide open net... the game forced them to miss. Failed on a hit... blame the bubble when they were going too slow to really make an impact. You can't improve if you think you're too good for it and you just push the blame on to something else.
  • @MooseHunter10 - Id like to hear more about what makes Overwatch a successful Esport.

    In what way? It used to be a very successful Esport that provided it's pro-team with good minimum salaries, $50,000, benefits, etc. However, it is dying down, but such is the nature of gaming, as it's an aging game with Overwatch 2 being teased.

    Does that make sense?

    The bottom line is, EA doesn't want to make a successful hockey game, they want to make a profitable game. Which is understandable. However, the way I see it, they sacrificing long term, growing success for short term profit.

    Success isn't only determined by profit. It's quite apparent EA wants to make a good game. Otherwise, everything would be monetized. There's one way to spend extra money in NHL. One. Way. There's been a huge focus on gameplay the last couple of years. This isn't a sign that they are only going for profit. In the end, the game needs to make money. There's nothing wrong with profit. It's how you get there that's the issue and I think NHL does a good job of not being greedy when they could be.
  • What makes anything a successful Esport is its spectator entertainment value. Overwatch is great to watch because its almost constant action and strategic planning and cooperation to be successful.

    Nhl can never be that with each player set having minimal variance and 0 individuality. Also no one wants to watch an endless string of double backs and curls and goofy looking nuetral zone back skating just to set up glitch shots. The action in nhl gets very dull very fast because people are just driving for one money goal that will beat the goalie on 8 out of 10 shots.
  • This game was HUGE 10 years ago! Cardboard cutout players and HUT have destroyed EASHL. Bring them back!

    The reason the guys I played with 10 years ago are now casual and not hardcore has nothing to do with changes to the game. They like that you don't have to grind out 350 games now. You know why? Because they're 10 years older. They have families and careers now. They can't play as much as they used to. EASHL wasn't destroyed by HUT or not having attributes. EASHL is still alive, but I think today's NHL takes more skill than it did 10 years ago. Not everyone chooses to adapt.
  • In what way? It used to be a very successful Esport that provided it's pro-team with good minimum salaries, $50,000, benefits, etc. However, it is dying down, but such is the nature of gaming, as it's an aging game with Overwatch 2 being teased.

    Does that make sense?

    I didnt mean which metric was used to define success, I mean what inside the game worked well.
    In Overwatch, are all playable characters available your first day of owning the game? Do they level up? Can you edit a player type to expand their strengths/weaknesses? Are veteran's with 1000 CR willing to play with their real life friends that have 400 CR?


    In EASHL, the difference between a pre-orderer and a Xmas-noobs is the experience they have personally gained. There are some unlocks, but its less of leveling up as it is gaining increased amount of stat-specialization (can add +1/-1 card today, change it to a +3/-3 card in a week). Does Overwatch have anything like this?

    In EASHL, people who care about their CR generally wont play Drop-Ins. Overwatch, do competitive players refuse to play randoms? Refuse to play with their real-life friends that aren't as good as them?

    In NBA 2k, only very few people max their character out per year, and their Xmas noobs are a huge disadvantage, so much so that it becomes hard for them to get games, because no one wants to be on a team with low rated players. They do have a successful Esport league, which boggles my mind.

    EASHL player
  • The reason the guys I played with 10 years ago are now casual and not hardcore has nothing to do with changes to the game. They like that you don't have to grind out 350 games now. You know why? Because they're 10 years older. They have families and careers now. They can't play as much as they used to. EASHL wasn't destroyed by HUT or not having attributes. EASHL is still alive, but I think today's NHL takes more skill than it did 10 years ago. Not everyone chooses to adapt.[/quote]

    No way, in 09-13 eashl was relivant and competitive well threw april, now it's a ghost town after thanksgiving. Yea the older players cant play as much anymore and thats cool, but that dont mean the series dies with them, the game is failing to grow and attract new players long term. If what your saying is true there should be a fresh new crop of 20 something's populating and playing, but there's not because the series has gone stale and had little to no innovation in 10 years. In 2010 the skill stick was still a relatively new feature, and there has been nothing in the way of development for eashl leagues or competitions in well over 5 years, just cookie cutter basic player sets in a stripped down divisional play format that went stale in 2016. The entire game mode inspires 0 creativity or individualism, atleast when there were custom attributes players were unique and you got excited to play and thrive as your custom skater, now it's just preset 1-5.

    Once you hit division one in the 1st few weeks, it has a gross feeling of what is even left to play for and games get less and less exciting. There's no hope for tournaments or a competitive environment and by the 10th division 1 title it seems like a pointless chore to even play the game anymore.
  • rogers2487 wrote: »
    The reason the guys I played with 10 years ago are now casual and not hardcore has nothing to do with changes to the game. They like that you don't have to grind out 350 games now. You know why? Because they're 10 years older. They have families and careers now. They can't play as much as they used to. EASHL wasn't destroyed by HUT or not having attributes. EASHL is still alive, but I think today's NHL takes more skill than it did 10 years ago. Not everyone chooses to adapt.

    No way, in 09-13 eashl was relivant and competitive well threw april, now it's a ghost town after thanksgiving. Yea the older players cant play as much anymore and thats cool, but that dont mean the series dies with them, the game is failing to grow and attract new players long term. If what your saying is true there should be a fresh new crop of 20 something's populating and playing, but there's not because the series has gone stale and had little to no innovation in 10 years. In 2010 the skill stick was still a relatively new feature, and there has been nothing in the way of development for eashl leagues or competitions in well over 5 years, just cookie cutter basic player sets in a stripped down divisional play format that went stale in 2016. The entire game mode inspires 0 creativity or individualism, atleast when there were custom attributes players were unique and you got excited to play and thrive as your custom skater, now it's just preset 1-5.

    Once you hit division one in the 1st few weeks, it has a gross feeling of what is even left to play for and games get less and less exciting. There's no hope for tournaments or a competitive environment and by the 10th division 1 title it seems like a pointless chore to even play the game anymore.[/quote]

    Fresh, new players won't find the series stale because they haven't been playing forever. It's fresh and new. EASHL is far from a ghost town after Thanksgiving. I easily found 6s to play all year. I don't see how a lack of attributes has anything to do with it. Most hardcore players maxed their attributes within several weeks. Why did they keep playing? Because they were constantly adjusting their attributes? If so, I wouldn't call those hardcore players because it seems more like someone casual would be annoyed with that enough to quit playing. The hardcore audience is playing because they love the sport and the competition it brings. I realize this is subjective, but the gameplay is way more realistic than it was for 09 - 13. Not everyone adapts though and they still want the more arcade days of back then.

    To each their own, but not everyone plays EASHL to get to D 1 and quit because there's nothing left to play for. Many of us just love to play with friends or even strangers because it's hockey. It's competitive and fun. There's really nothing like getting your best buds on and playing this game with them. Regardless of the division or not being able to customize your attributes.
  • Sneakler
    43 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Scenario: You get the game at release, your friend gets it at xmas. You're maxed out, and your friend drags down your team, and generally has a less enjoyable experience.

    Thats pretty crap isnt it?

    source: see NBA 2k.

    The funny thing about your argument is that you are asking a developer to design their progression mechanics around NON-day one players at the cost of limiting your day one players to strictly cosmetic progression other then the traits in game that you unlock.

    The original claim for changing actual progression was eliminating the catch-up mechanic issue along with crying about "SUPER BUILDS" even though we all constantly rebuilt our characters, argued about which stats and setups were best and enjoyed doing so. The truth is there were no "SUPER BUILDS" in the game and the facts of the matter are...you could get to Superstar III after playing 50-70 games and you were LEGEND I at around 75-115, LEGEND II at 150ish and obviously LEGEND III was tough for a casual player to reach at 300 games although the reward for getting there was 2 or 3 clicks into an attribute at best.

    The thing is, the amount of extra points that separated a SUPERSTAR III and a LEGEND III were a couple extra points into shot accuracy or puck control and the games whether you would like to believe it or not were decided by on-ice play. If you think you were losing because a super build or because a few attributes you are very misguided about what separates the good from the bad in this game.

    My source for this is myself and any other person who has been part of an experienced group of players for 10 years now. I could be a SUPERSTAR III along with my teammates and destroy a group of average/above avereage/top-tier players that are LEGEND III. When this change was made I made a statement that after the attributes were removed pllayers and teams that were bad will still be bad and good players will still be good players. Nobody went from losing games like it's their job to magically stomping people when the format was changed. Not a thing. Keep in mind that with every click into a specific point category it started to cost you more per click so as you earned more points to put in they did less for you...I believe people refer to this as diminishing returns. If you earned 400 points going from LEGEND I to LEGEND II bumping your speed up to 91 or 92 from it being at 90 could literally cost you all 400 of those points.

    The year this change was implemented was the first year of gamechangers which included a fair amount of LG HOCKEY players and I have always believed they encouraged EA to make this change so people who they recruited to join their leagues after the game launched could join them and be caught up which I understand, I did ask gamechangers about this and they had went on the record saying this was a change EA had planned to make before they gave their input. Your guess is as good as mine who is telling the truth or not but EA did walk away from income by removing the boost slots that were able to be purchased when this change was made.

    Edit: I am aware that height/weight adjustments allow for some customization outside of the traits but the games only actual progression from playing games arrives in the form of unlocking traits for your player which is fairly minimal as far as creating build paraody.
    Post edited by Sneakler on
  • Sneakler wrote: »
    The thing is, the amount of extra points that separated a SUPERSTAR III and a LEGEND III were a couple extra points into shot accuracy or puck control and the games whether you would like to believe it or not were decided by on-ice play. If you think you were losing because a super build or because a few attributes you are very misguided about what separates the good from the bad in this game.

    My source for this is myself and any other person who has been part of an experienced group of players for 10 years now. I could be a SUPERSTAR III along with my teammates and destroy a group of average/above avereage/top-tier players that are LEGEND III.

    Makes little difference, but you insist in its importance to the game.
    My definition of esport is that you have 2 equals playing each other, and the better human at the controller wins. I've been trying to ask here what other esports are like, and can't get a straight answer. Its a huge industry now, there has to be something those other games are doing right.

    Cosmetic progression could be real. Unlock a new beard length every Div1 playoff you win, etc. Reach Legend3 status to remove your helmet. I think its a shame that LG is even needed. That sort of ladder/rankings should be built into the game. Its so rare for top teams to face each other just through the built in matchmaking.
    EASHL player
  • Sneakler
    43 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Sneakler wrote: »
    The thing is, the amount of extra points that separated a SUPERSTAR III and a LEGEND III were a couple extra points into shot accuracy or puck control and the games whether you would like to believe it or not were decided by on-ice play. If you think you were losing because a super build or because a few attributes you are very misguided about what separates the good from the bad in this game.

    My source for this is myself and any other person who has been part of an experienced group of players for 10 years now. I could be a SUPERSTAR III along with my teammates and destroy a group of average/above avereage/top-tier players that are LEGEND III.

    Makes little difference, but you insist in its importance to the game.
    My definition of esport is that you have 2 equals playing each other, and the better human at the controller wins. I've been trying to ask here what other esports are like, and can't get a straight answer. Its a huge industry now, there has to be something those other games are doing right.

    Cosmetic progression could be real. Unlock a new beard length every Div1 playoff you win, etc. Reach Legend3 status to remove your helmet. I think its a shame that LG is even needed. That sort of ladder/rankings should be built into the game. Its so rare for top teams to face each other just through the built in matchmaking.

    I wasn't part of your eSports discussion. I was addressing progression vs zero/limited progression.


    But if you want a straight answer here you go:

    http://www.vgchartz.com/game/222234/nhl-19/sales


    We can start there. What does a huge industry have to do with THIS SERIES!? This game doesn't get a slice of the pie...many games do not. There are games like Destiny that sell 10-50 times as many copies as this game and do not have an eSports scene. You need population, interest, money/sponsors, personalities.

    This game has none of those things.

    You think it is a shame the LG is needed lol...needed is an interesting word. LG is a joke. I would argue LG adds to the fact that this game will never become an eSport. A bunch of noobs creating a role-playing league who think they are some sort of top-tier players. LG/EHL/BUMHL/etc has about 15-30 good players and 300 noobs. I am not trying to be offensive but sadly it's just true. I not only play regularly with a player who is part of these circles and I have watched these people play it's actually pathetic. There is a player who was idolized in LG that we literally booted off our team for being terrible.

    Top teams do face each other in this games matchmaking just depends what lineups you like to play with.

    For years now there are 5-10 teams in each of the following that are very skilled.

    5's NON G

    6's G

    3's G

    3's NON G

    All of these modes have different metas and are played very differently and play to different skillsets.

    One last reason and this will be controversial but here we go:

    If EASHL were ever to become an eSport it would be 3's. 5's/6's just isn't exciting. If you are an experienced player at this game then you will know what I am getting at with this next statement.

    Two evenly matched great teams playing 5 v 5 or 6 v 6 do not generate very much opportunities because defense in this game is fairly simple when you understand what other teams are trying to do. If you turn around and tell me that elite teams have 7-6 games I am just going to tell you that they are both are bad and that the HUMAN G position is a complete disaster so spare me that one.

    Bottom line, 3's is more exciting and would be more entertaining and easier to cover and more entertaining to watch. No different then Rocket League. Wide open gameplay on the ice would be the only way anything EASHL ever becomes eSport relevant outside of VERSUS which is lame as well.

    Would be nice if this game has crossplay for PS4/XBOX though I will say that would be a starting point.


  • Guys, there is a reason so many games have some type of mechanic where your character grows as you level up and gets better. It's satisfying to our primitive brains. It's rewarding. It's fun.

    You were a rookie for like 10 games. After that passes you're on your way. By the time you were a veteran, around 100 games, you were only 3-5 attribute points total away from legend levels. The total overall rating would maybe go up by 2 points between the two.

    But it was still fun to level up your guy, and just as much fun to customize the attributes. The system we have now is a decent balance, but it really has lost its draw compared to the early days.
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