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Hitting and LT fixed!

You know what they’ve always said about NHL hockey ... contact is highly ineffective and discouraged, and maintaining puck possession is a cinch! Speaking both historically and of the modern sport, professional hockey is of course akin to Disney on Ice. Finally we’re seeing more recognition of these fundamental precepts. So refreshing.

Thanks, guys. Nailed it!

Replies

  • Sass level: 100
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • It's funny, but having played a few games, it looks like there WAS something done to LT but it was a very timid tweak.

    Like If you try it with a lower rated player, like 80 ovr and under, you'll see they will lose the puck if you try to suddenly back skate. But higher rated players still keep a hold of the puck like it's glued to their sticks no matter how much you spam/twitch LT skate.

    Looks like it needs a little more forceful push by the devs, because this LT insanity will kill the game in short time... Again.
  • You need to be able to push them over when they're spinning
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    All EA needs to do is reduce puck control, balance, and hit resistance down to 1% anytime a skater initiates LT, this way its a huge risk for puck carrier to LT too much. Simple, as soon as LT is pressed while in possession of the puck all of those attributes should go to 1% until LT is released then attributes go back up to normal.

    EA already has this to some degree, just performing a single press LT to perform a spin o rama results in loss of puck control as the skater loses the puck quite often while spinning, it makes more sense to punish LT spammers than a single spin o rama, so if you can punish a spin o rama you might as well punish LT spammers.
  • 5 days in and developers haven't even engaged, I'd be willing to bet they won't fix it.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    zingaa1 wrote: »
    5 days in and developers haven't even engaged, I'd be willing to bet they won't fix it.

    Last year, the community had issues with tuning too early to feedback without letting the game settle and allowing players to adapt.

    So there are two pieces there -- I don't think there is anything we have missed when it comes to community feedback over the last 5 days and it has only been 5 days.

    For LT, the changes we made this year that were in before the Beta went live were to:
    - Not allow players to accel mid pivot.
    - Have player ability/attributes determine their ability to keep the puck when pivoting at higher speeds similar to what we do with spins and dekes. This is tuned in subtle to start as players also don't like RNG and we know there are legit times to pivot as well.

    What we expected to see are less players spamming it this year because there is a huge disadvantage to lose speed by staying in a mid pivot state as opposed to last year where they could still continue to make progress up ice due to not losing the ability to accelerate in that mid pivot state.

    We added the condition for puck loss during pivots at speed but it isn't too extreme right now as we wanted to see how the other changes impacted things first as we also increased ability to keep the puck during simpler dekes and feel that should be seen as more advantageous than turning your back and basically killing speed and progress on the rush.

    The changes we made to hitting (and pieces tied to hitting from behind) were to look at cases where incidental contact was moving a limb and thus moving the stick beyond the point where incidental stick to puck distance was large enough to dislodge the puck. The puck carriers top hand was too weak in some of these cases and it was leading to incorrect puck loss. We also looked at the impact that incidental stick contact had on players from behind when it was just a single hand on the stick extended while a defender was rushing back. That single hand on a raised stick will not cause puck loss like stick on stick will when you get a stronger positioned stick in place making contact with the puck carriers stick. These changes promote better angles, higher relative speeds and being goal side to have more success on defense. Players can still shove players off the puck from behind when they can actually shove them with strength or get that higher relative speed but you won't see the easier puck loss off of incidental contact just because it moved a limb. The balance of players stumbling and getting shoved off the puck all has to do with angles, players abilities/attributes and size, relative speed. You can be a bigger player or have higher relative speed and have success pushing a player off the puck but it will always be better to be in a situation where you are pushing the player away from the puck.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    zingaa1 wrote: »
    5 days in and developers haven't even engaged, I'd be willing to bet they won't fix it.

    Last year, the community had issues with tuning too early to feedback without letting the game settle and allowing players to adapt.

    So there are two pieces there -- I don't think there is anything we have missed when it comes to community feedback over the last 5 days and it has only been 5 days.

    For LT, the changes we made this year that were in before the Beta went live were to:
    - Not allow players to accel mid pivot.
    - Have player ability/attributes determine their ability to keep the puck when pivoting at higher speeds similar to what we do with spins and dekes. This is tuned in subtle to start as players also don't like RNG and we know there are legit times to pivot as well.

    What we expected to see are less players spamming it this year because there is a huge disadvantage to lose speed by staying in a mid pivot state as opposed to last year where they could still continue to make progress up ice due to not losing the ability to accelerate in that mid pivot state.

    We added the condition for puck loss during pivots at speed but it isn't too extreme right now as we wanted to see how the other changes impacted things first as we also increased ability to keep the puck during simpler dekes and feel that should be seen as more advantageous than turning your back and basically killing speed and progress on the rush.

    The changes we made to hitting (and pieces tied to hitting from behind) were to look at cases where incidental contact was moving a limb and thus moving the stick beyond the point where incidental stick to puck distance was large enough to dislodge the puck. The puck carriers top hand was too weak in some of these cases and it was leading to incorrect puck loss. We also looked at the impact that incidental stick contact had on players from behind when it was just a single hand on the stick extended while a defender was rushing back. That single hand on a raised stick will not cause puck loss like stick on stick will when you get a stronger positioned stick in place making contact with the puck carriers stick. These changes promote better angles, higher relative speeds and being goal side to have more success on defense. Players can still shove players off the puck from behind when they can actually shove them with strength or get that higher relative speed but you won't see the easier puck loss off of incidental contact just because it moved a limb. The balance of players stumbling and getting shoved off the puck all has to do with angles, players abilities/attributes and size, relative speed. You can be a bigger player or have higher relative speed and have success pushing a player off the puck but it will always be better to be in a situation where you are pushing the player away from the puck.

    The problem is that the feedback from last years beta was overwhelmingly positive, and this year (including launch) has been overwhelmingly negative... so I don’t think this is an honest response whatsoever
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    zingaa1 wrote: »
    5 days in and developers haven't even engaged, I'd be willing to bet they won't fix it.

    Last year, the community had issues with tuning too early to feedback without letting the game settle and allowing players to adapt.

    So there are two pieces there -- I don't think there is anything we have missed when it comes to community feedback over the last 5 days and it has only been 5 days.

    For LT, the changes we made this year that were in before the Beta went live were to:
    - Not allow players to accel mid pivot.
    - Have player ability/attributes determine their ability to keep the puck when pivoting at higher speeds similar to what we do with spins and dekes. This is tuned in subtle to start as players also don't like RNG and we know there are legit times to pivot as well.

    What we expected to see are less players spamming it this year because there is a huge disadvantage to lose speed by staying in a mid pivot state as opposed to last year where they could still continue to make progress up ice due to not losing the ability to accelerate in that mid pivot state.

    We added the condition for puck loss during pivots at speed but it isn't too extreme right now as we wanted to see how the other changes impacted things first as we also increased ability to keep the puck during simpler dekes and feel that should be seen as more advantageous than turning your back and basically killing speed and progress on the rush.

    The changes we made to hitting (and pieces tied to hitting from behind) were to look at cases where incidental contact was moving a limb and thus moving the stick beyond the point where incidental stick to puck distance was large enough to dislodge the puck. The puck carriers top hand was too weak in some of these cases and it was leading to incorrect puck loss. We also looked at the impact that incidental stick contact had on players from behind when it was just a single hand on the stick extended while a defender was rushing back. That single hand on a raised stick will not cause puck loss like stick on stick will when you get a stronger positioned stick in place making contact with the puck carriers stick. These changes promote better angles, higher relative speeds and being goal side to have more success on defense. Players can still shove players off the puck from behind when they can actually shove them with strength or get that higher relative speed but you won't see the easier puck loss off of incidental contact just because it moved a limb. The balance of players stumbling and getting shoved off the puck all has to do with angles, players abilities/attributes and size, relative speed. You can be a bigger player or have higher relative speed and have success pushing a player off the puck but it will always be better to be in a situation where you are pushing the player away from the puck.

    Hey Ben!

    My honest opinion? At first, the feedback from the NHL 19 BETA and then the launch of the game was mostly positive. People enjoyed the heightened challenge and skill + knowledge were rewarded. However the main negative was that because scoring was lower, a sizeable chunk of the player base felt like their twitch skills weren't being rewarded enough. This quickly changed the further along the game was tweaked until LT spamming ruled the virtual ice.

    This year seems a complete reversal. More speed. More agility. Even if the LT was slightly nerfed, it is still abusable thanks to being able to quickly adjust your angle and glance off hits that should, at the very least, cause a stumble if not an outright loss of possession. Many believe this is the complete opposite of what this game needs to be even though, obviously, many are very happy at how the game currently stands.

    The little I've played of the game so far, I feel like there haven't been too many advances (compared to last year), while at the same time a lot remains unfixed as of yet. Maybe that's because this is the end of this game's lifecycle on the current generation of hardware, and if so, that's quite understandable.

    Hopefully you and your team get a good sampling and can effect some much needed tweaks to the game to tone down some of the more ridiculous aspects that are still lingering from years past. I would very much like to give this game a shot sometime down the future. Maybe when it comes out in the Vault as it will give you guys enough time to tinker with it and (hopefully) find firm ground where the game can further evolve into more than what it is right now.
    Post edited by VeNOM2099 on
  • This a joke right last year the beta was great ,the game upon release was great ,a lot of us here loved it the goalies were good no cheesey goals but then came the complaining from the elite cheesers and you changed the whole game around ,and instead of tell them to adapt it was us being told to adapt, adapt to the same crap that year after year bad been in the game and still is in the game today ,then we heard this joke that all of these changes that were made created a skill gap .This year's game you can still LT and since the hitting has been nerfed it's even worse , goalies are horrible, spamming the stick lift is op one of the game changers mentioned it in his stream,and the almighty turn your back protect the puck bubble is King once again and it seems this year the AI is on speed .This game could be great if you can make some minor tweaks here and there
  • Just played a game in which everyone on their team was spamming LT. Make it so that the SLIGHTEST bump will force you to lose the puck. If you don't see the contact coming, no way you would be able to control the puck in actual hockey. Any contact, including your own teammates
  • Oboeee wrote: »
    Just played a game in which everyone on their team was spamming LT. Make it so that the SLIGHTEST bump will force you to lose the puck. If you don't see the contact coming, no way you would be able to control the puck in actual hockey. Any contact, including your own teammates

    Yup...it’s clown town hockey.
    I’d be embarrassed if I was a proud developer
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    zingaa1 wrote: »
    5 days in and developers haven't even engaged, I'd be willing to bet they won't fix it.

    Last year, the community had issues with tuning too early to feedback without letting the game settle and allowing players to adapt.

    So there are two pieces there -- I don't think there is anything we have missed when it comes to community feedback over the last 5 days and it has only been 5 days.

    For LT, the changes we made this year that were in before the Beta went live were to:
    - Not allow players to accel mid pivot.
    - Have player ability/attributes determine their ability to keep the puck when pivoting at higher speeds similar to what we do with spins and dekes. This is tuned in subtle to start as players also don't like RNG and we know there are legit times to pivot as well.

    What we expected to see are less players spamming it this year because there is a huge disadvantage to lose speed by staying in a mid pivot state as opposed to last year where they could still continue to make progress up ice due to not losing the ability to accelerate in that mid pivot state.

    We added the condition for puck loss during pivots at speed but it isn't too extreme right now as we wanted to see how the other changes impacted things first as we also increased ability to keep the puck during simpler dekes and feel that should be seen as more advantageous than turning your back and basically killing speed and progress on the rush.

    The changes we made to hitting (and pieces tied to hitting from behind) were to look at cases where incidental contact was moving a limb and thus moving the stick beyond the point where incidental stick to puck distance was large enough to dislodge the puck. The puck carriers top hand was too weak in some of these cases and it was leading to incorrect puck loss. We also looked at the impact that incidental stick contact had on players from behind when it was just a single hand on the stick extended while a defender was rushing back. That single hand on a raised stick will not cause puck loss like stick on stick will when you get a stronger positioned stick in place making contact with the puck carriers stick. These changes promote better angles, higher relative speeds and being goal side to have more success on defense. Players can still shove players off the puck from behind when they can actually shove them with strength or get that higher relative speed but you won't see the easier puck loss off of incidental contact just because it moved a limb. The balance of players stumbling and getting shoved off the puck all has to do with angles, players abilities/attributes and size, relative speed. You can be a bigger player or have higher relative speed and have success pushing a player off the puck but it will always be better to be in a situation where you are pushing the player away from the puck.

    Just address the spinning and backwards skating with the puck. Everything else needs an adjustment period, like you mentioned on the users end. Please dont tune because people aren't acclimated to the learning curve. The tuners last year ruined the game and it was dead by Christmas. Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't need the grease.
  • GrundleDemon333
    107 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Oboeee wrote: »
    Just played a game in which everyone on their team was spamming LT. Make it so that the SLIGHTEST bump will force you to lose the puck. If you don't see the contact coming, no way you would be able to control the puck in actual hockey. Any contact, including your own teammates

    Yup...it’s clown town hockey.

    Yeah. I appreciate that the devs have to deal with instances of contact on the micro level, but let’s not overcomplicate it. Simply rotating the body away slightly, especially while suddenly twirling and compromising balance, should not render one a certified pinball and negate the effect of contact. They made this change to nerf hitting/contact, while making only an acceleration-based change to LT. The overall result is to only make the problem worse. At a minimum, it continues to encourage those that make a mockery of their game.

    And are we now really re-hashing the hitting/contact tuning debacle of last year (which was ultimately resolved correctly after months of debate and surveys, etc.)? It seems that we are. So if we must, yes, its again just plain silly to see the puck carrier bouncing off multiple defenders (often while he pulls his stick through players’ bodies) only to maintain possession and skate to the net. I have no doubt the streamers again wanted their dangling protection bubble increased, but we all objectively know that aint NHL hockey. And it aint fun. I thought even the devs agreed it was a mistake when they listened to them last year and changed their game in this direction. Well, it should be no surprise that it still is.



  • Ugh...yes...the bouncing off of players and maintaining possession is such an annoyance this year. That and hitting an opposing player to the ice, but he miraculously can jump back up and regain possession of the puck.
  • Oboeee wrote: »
    Just played a game in which everyone on their team was spamming LT. Make it so that the SLIGHTEST bump will force you to lose the puck. If you don't see the contact coming, no way you would be able to control the puck in actual hockey. Any contact, including your own teammates

    Yup...it’s clown town hockey.

    Yeah. I appreciate that the devs have to deal with instances of contact on the micro level, but let’s not overcomplicate it. Simply rotating the body away slightly, especially while suddenly twirling and compromising balance, should not render one a certified pinball and negate the effect of contact. They made this change to nerf hitting/contact, while making only an acceleration-based change to LT. The overall result is to only make the problem worse. At a minimum, it continues to encourage those that make a mockery of their game.

    And are we now really re-hashing the hitting/contact tuning debacle of last year (which was ultimately resolved correctly after months of debate and surveys, etc.)? It seems that we are. So if we must, yes, its again just plain silly to see the puck carrier bouncing off multiple defenders (often while he pulls his stick through players’ bodies) only to maintain possession and skate to the net. I have no doubt the streamers again wanted their dangling protection bubble increased, but we all objectively know that aint NHL hockey. And it aint fun. I thought even the devs agreed it was a mistake when they listened to them last year and changed their game in this direction. Well, it should be no surprise that it still is.

    When they took it back to the beta build after the whole debate, I was happy again. Puck loss was "slightly" extreme, but I would rather have THAT, which basically forced actual hockey plays. Passing to the open man. Cycling. Dump and chase. Deking at the correct time. Paying the price for solo heroics when faced with multiple defenders in good position. Skating directly into someone with a game that ignores stick to body geometry, while still being able to maintain the puck has made this game a running, annual joke to hockey enthusiasts.
  • GrundleDemon333
    107 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Just imagine what this game could be if the gameplay devs didn’t spend every iteration and tuner creatively finding new ways to nerf the physics in favor of the offense/puck carrier. We might actually have a game of hockey! Man that would be cool. Oh well. And wow, how did they manage to make goalies worse at the same time this year? Lol.

    Welp, I’m done with magnet stick human pinball for a while. Send in the clowns ... Dangle, snipe, celly brahs!
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