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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Defense getting shredded

Replies

  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    It seems like running forwards at defensemen is the better option again.

    Also this.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/lT4Bj0BEDEq3N0jX8D

    Should have lost the puck or blew an edge or something.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    It seems like running forwards at defensemen is the better option again.

    Also this.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/lT4Bj0BEDEq3N0jX8D

    Should have lost the puck or blew an edge or something.

    These are the kind of plays that will be featured in POTM on twitter.. book it
  • VeNOM2099
    2610 posts Member
    edited September 17
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I definitely wouldn't suggest turning your back to the offense as others have suggested and would fully suggest being goal side, backskating with a good gap, angling players to the boards and towards their backhand when possible.

    And yet that is how everyone is playing defense when playing this game. At least if you want to, y'know... Win. You are better off matching speed and hope for incidental contact to strip the puck than using traditional defense. For one thing the DSS is still not where it should be to make people want to use it versus attempting to poke at the puck.

    Keeping the gap while backskating is a nearly impossible feat thanks to the increase in skating speed and agility forwards get with the puck. It CAN be done, yes. But the conditions to succeed at it are so high, you need almost perfect spacing to do it. Certainly you can't do it with a defensive build like DD or Enforcer.

    In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone play defense pick anything else than PMD or TWD. Heck I've seen more GND defensemen this year than TWD... People are picking forward builds now. Because in order to keep up, it's more important to keep skating than to be positional and smart.

    At least it is when playing other humans. I've traditionally picked DD every year I've played this game and done pretty well. But this year, if I had to play, I'd have to go TWD. That's my take on it.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I definitely wouldn't suggest turning your back to the offense as others have suggested and would fully suggest being goal side, backskating with a good gap, angling players to the boards and towards their backhand when possible.

    And yet that is how everyone is playing defense when playing this game. You are better off matching speed and hope for incidental contact to strip the puck than using traditional defense. For one thing the DSS is still not where it should be to make people want to use it versus attempting to poke at the puck.

    Keeping the gap while backskating is a nearly impossible feat thanks to the increase in skating speed and agility forwards get with the puck. It CAN be done, yes. But the conditions to succeed at it are so high, you need almost perfect spacing to do it. Certainly you can't do it with a defensive build like DD or Enforcer.

    In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone play defense pick anything else than PMD or TWD. Heck I've seen more GND defensemen this year than TWD... People are picking forward builds now. Because in order to keep up, it's more important to keep skating than to be positional and smart.

    At least it is when playing other humans. I've traditionally picked DD every year I've played this game and done pretty well. But this year, if I had to play, I'd have to go TWD. That's my take on it.

    DSS hasn't been a viable option almost ever. I think the 1st year it came out it worked decent but this was before tripfest 19 where players would skate into the stick and fall over. You're absolutely right about the builds not matching the forward agility and speed much less actually being proficient at using the stick to make plays like you know, real hockey.
  • VeNOM2099
    2610 posts Member
    edited September 17
    phil7488 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I definitely wouldn't suggest turning your back to the offense as others have suggested and would fully suggest being goal side, backskating with a good gap, angling players to the boards and towards their backhand when possible.

    And yet that is how everyone is playing defense when playing this game. You are better off matching speed and hope for incidental contact to strip the puck than using traditional defense. For one thing the DSS is still not where it should be to make people want to use it versus attempting to poke at the puck.

    Keeping the gap while backskating is a nearly impossible feat thanks to the increase in skating speed and agility forwards get with the puck. It CAN be done, yes. But the conditions to succeed at it are so high, you need almost perfect spacing to do it. Certainly you can't do it with a defensive build like DD or Enforcer.

    In fact, I don't think I've seen anyone play defense pick anything else than PMD or TWD. Heck I've seen more GND defensemen this year than TWD... People are picking forward builds now. Because in order to keep up, it's more important to keep skating than to be positional and smart.

    At least it is when playing other humans. I've traditionally picked DD every year I've played this game and done pretty well. But this year, if I had to play, I'd have to go TWD. That's my take on it.

    DSS hasn't been a viable option almost ever. I think the 1st year it came out it worked decent but this was before tripfest 19 where players would skate into the stick and fall over. You're absolutely right about the builds not matching the forward agility and speed much less actually being proficient at using the stick to make plays like you know, real hockey.

    It was actually in a good spot at first last year. Then a few tweaks were made which seemed to nerf DSS by causing more tripping penalties if the player holding the puck's limbs happened to cross the stick you were holding out. I eventually adjusted to it and did fine. In a game where there's no feedback when you hold a solid object (hockey stick) against another solid object (player's legs), it can be pretty jarring when you try to make a good defensive move only to get punished because the other player crossed some invisible threshold you can't really account for.


    But my main gripe was that 1) contact with the puck wasn't as forceful as I (and many other d-men) would've wished and 2) the hitbox was a bit too small when trying to use it as a way to disrupt passing lanes.

    These two aspects haven't really changed in NHL 20.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • Follisimo
    747 posts Member
    edited September 17
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    First off this is impossible.. cannot make a larger PMD or a smaller TWD

    Secondly it is way too often that sticks to through pucks and other sticks only for the puck to be not knocked loose or knocked loose and then simultaneously regained. I use a PMD with 90 DA, 95 OA, and 89 puck control and can’t pick up anything. Stick checking attribute should reflect mainly the success of stick lift, as well as penalties caused by stick infractions. It should NOT reflect the success of a physical object moving through another physical object. If I make stick on puck contact with 55 stick checking compared to 99, it should be the same power and effectiveness of knocking the puck loose. Right now there is no window where the offensive player has to wait to regain the puck (even a second), based off their attributes, and anything the dev team says otherwise is a blatant lie. Period. There is no reason why an enforcer should get the puck back immediately when my attributes double his and my player is in a better position body and stick/hand wise to pick up the puck

    Oops 6'2'' anyways here is what I use. I've never believed in the awareness stat even back in the 360 days felt like it was overrated. Imo Puck Control is more about not losing it than picking it up as it's in the offensive category. Also the minute people lose the puck they instantly stick lift anyways to get it right back and then usually pull back so you are more likely to take a penalty or miss. Like for me literally when someone gets close I'm ready to hit that stick lift to get it right back.
    r5bp274d4vcg.jpg
  • Additionally the speed of the game right now is wayyy too fast. Change it to broadcast and you’ll see how this game doesn’t reflect NHL speed. NHL 19 was probably 2-3x faster than NHL hockey. NHL 20 is like 4-5x faster, it’s crazy

    Speed doesn’t always equal fun. It’s nauseating playing any position other than forward. Even with perfect connection its extremely difficult to have a human response time that fast to make the smart play, add to the fact that the controller is often unresponsive due to slight button delay and you get a recipe for disaster. It’s broke...

    Get better you are just slow on your response and that is your fault for not adapting. Go look at Rocket League and see what timing at truly a fast pace is all about. If they can do it then so can you with this game.
  • VeNOM2099
    2610 posts Member
    edited September 17
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Additionally the speed of the game right now is wayyy too fast. Change it to broadcast and you’ll see how this game doesn’t reflect NHL speed. NHL 19 was probably 2-3x faster than NHL hockey. NHL 20 is like 4-5x faster, it’s crazy

    Speed doesn’t always equal fun. It’s nauseating playing any position other than forward. Even with perfect connection its extremely difficult to have a human response time that fast to make the smart play, add to the fact that the controller is often unresponsive due to slight button delay and you get a recipe for disaster. It’s broke...

    Get better you are just slow on your response and that is your fault for not adapting. Go look at Rocket League and see what timing at truly a fast pace is all about. If they can do it then so can you with this game.

    If people can react fast enough to play pinball, then you should be able to adjust and play hockey?... I'm not sure I can agree with that argument in this case.

    Certainly if we were playing Dance Dance Revolution, I would agree 100%.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    First off this is impossible.. cannot make a larger PMD or a smaller TWD

    Secondly it is way too often that sticks to through pucks and other sticks only for the puck to be not knocked loose or knocked loose and then simultaneously regained. I use a PMD with 90 DA, 95 OA, and 89 puck control and can’t pick up anything. Stick checking attribute should reflect mainly the success of stick lift, as well as penalties caused by stick infractions. It should NOT reflect the success of a physical object moving through another physical object. If I make stick on puck contact with 55 stick checking compared to 99, it should be the same power and effectiveness of knocking the puck loose. Right now there is no window where the offensive player has to wait to regain the puck (even a second), based off their attributes, and anything the dev team says otherwise is a blatant lie. Period. There is no reason why an enforcer should get the puck back immediately when my attributes double his and my player is in a better position body and stick/hand wise to pick up the puck

    Oops 6'2'' anyways here is what I use. I've never believed in the awareness **** even back in the 360 days felt like it was overrated. Imo Puck Control is more about not losing it than picking it up as it's in the offensive category. Also the minute people lose the puck they instantly stick lift anyways to get it right back and then usually pull back so you are more likely to take a penalty or miss. Like for me literally when someone gets close I'm ready to hit that stick lift to get it right back.
    r5bp274d4vcg.jpg

    I am assuming you picked these traits because you haven't unlocked all of them just yet. Or maybe this is your final build. Anyhow, not a bad build considering how I play D. I practice containment and force carriers where I want them to go (try to at least as sometimes it just plain fails) and just wait until hopefully they either take a garbage shot, or hand it over with a bad pass while using good positioning.

    I really do not put much emphasis or effort into body checks unless I just want to horse around specifically in a dropin game and then maybe rock an Enforcer for giggles. The point is, there isn't much value into putting a build more tailored for physical play. It just isn't worth it. Good forwards know how to lower their speed and turn away from you to negate physical play. This game suffers incredibly at low speeds. Furthermore, physical builds take away from agility which is light years more important than being big and heavy.

    For these reasons I will use a puckmover on D for club games most of the time, or I will mix it up and use a Sniper on D but mostly in dropins. I get the speed and agility to keep up with pinchers and I get an extremely decent one-timer from the point. Snipers are just as good at containment than any other build and I don't use physical contact all that much other than incidental contact.

    Forwards are still the better bet as D classes again this year. Such a shame that a forward build is more viable in a defense-comes-first position.....
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    It seems like running forwards at defensemen is the better option again.

    Also this.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/lT4Bj0BEDEq3N0jX8D

    Should have lost the puck or blew an edge or something.

    Oh trust me I would gladly accept taking that backsating out of the game. Never been a fan of it, but if they leave it as is then people will continue to use it. That is what people do in gaming. If it works then you use it til it doesn't when it changes then they change and find something new.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    It seems like running forwards at defensemen is the better option again.

    Also this.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/lT4Bj0BEDEq3N0jX8D

    Should have lost the puck or blew an edge or something.

    Oh trust me I would gladly accept taking that backsating out of the game. Never been a fan of it, but if they leave it as is then people will continue to use it. That is what people do in gaming. If it works then you use it til it doesn't when it changes then they change and find something new.

    Yup. By far the dumbest and most infuriating aspect of this game this year. Completely unrealistic on so many levels.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Additionally the speed of the game right now is wayyy too fast. Change it to broadcast and you’ll see how this game doesn’t reflect NHL speed. NHL 19 was probably 2-3x faster than NHL hockey. NHL 20 is like 4-5x faster, it’s crazy

    Speed doesn’t always equal fun. It’s nauseating playing any position other than forward. Even with perfect connection its extremely difficult to have a human response time that fast to make the smart play, add to the fact that the controller is often unresponsive due to slight button delay and you get a recipe for disaster. It’s broke...

    Get better you are just slow on your response and that is your fault for not adapting. Go look at Rocket League and see what timing at truly a fast pace is all about. If they can do it then so can you with this game.

    If people can react fast enough to play pinball, then you should be able to adjust and play hockey?... I'm not sure I can agree with that argument in this case.

    Certainly if we were playing Dance Dance Revolution, I would agree 100%.

    DDR is nothing like that because it's a rhythm game where you master songs. Playing something like Rocket League or any other game that has other human variables is so much more different. You know what community I support and you see the complaints they have. I'd take the majority over the minority when it comes to making a game.
  • PMD + Beast Mode o:)
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    It seems like running forwards at defensemen is the better option again.

    Also this.

    https://giphy.com/gifs/lT4Bj0BEDEq3N0jX8D

    Should have lost the puck or blew an edge or something.

    Oh trust me I would gladly accept taking that backsating out of the game. Never been a fan of it, but if they leave it as is then people will continue to use it. That is what people do in gaming. If it works then you use it til it doesn't when it changes then they change and find something new.

    I’d think everybody wants it removed and it’s still here. I honestly want a well, thought out explanation as to why that is still the prominent thing to do in the game without much consequences.
  • TWF is the best defensive build in 20.
  • I need to see footage of how you guys are using your dss.

    I see comments where people say you need to learn when to use it, but it’s hockey, you should always be using it. You should be manually trying to bat the puck or using it to sweep an area of the ice that you don’t want your opponents or the puck do go. You should be skating with your check and using it to mirror the blade on their stick. You should be trying to bat passes or shots with it.

    You can do a lot of the stuff that a hockey player can do with it in real life, but you need the skill to use both sticks fluidly at all times while being able to track the puck and your mark.
  • I play defense at a high level and the only issues I have are with the spinners and backwards skating exploiters. Puck control is not op imo. If they nerf puck control, all the defenders will complain that forechecking forwards are stripping the puck too easily. Its really all about how you make your builds suitable for your playstyle and understanding the builds limitations.

    If you have proper gap control and get into having the mentality that you are to stop scoring chances and not be the 4th forward, you should do fine.

    Breakouts don't always have to be stretch passes and don't try making passes just to get assists.

    Body checking is fine and you miss hits because of user error. I've stated before that since the hitting locks onto the puck and if you engage too soon and the puck carrier moves the stick, you slip by and hence the bubble you encounter.

    If your gap control is elite, the opposing player will simply skate into and lose the puck and if the puck carrier is hustling down the boards, you can throw a hip check or a timed pass block on one knee to disrupt his momentum.

    If you play overly aggressive, smashing the hustle button and skating top speed you are in less control of your player. When hustling without the puck, notice your stick is not touching the ice and therefore you can not pick up loose pucks effectively.

    Defensive builds are more about having agility and a great first pass. You only need to rely on speed if you can't maintain proper positioning and know when to retreat from the oppositions offensive zone. You also need to learn when and where on the ice to be aggressive and when not to be.

    Puck chopping is your friend. Learn how to use it. Learn how to take a player out of the play and how to box out players once the offense sets up in your zone. The more options you take away as a team the higher chances you will force the puck carrier into making a mistake and forcing a turnover.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    First off this is impossible.. cannot make a larger PMD or a smaller TWD

    Secondly it is way too often that sticks to through pucks and other sticks only for the puck to be not knocked loose or knocked loose and then simultaneously regained. I use a PMD with 90 DA, 95 OA, and 89 puck control and can’t pick up anything. Stick checking attribute should reflect mainly the success of stick lift, as well as penalties caused by stick infractions. It should NOT reflect the success of a physical object moving through another physical object. If I make stick on puck contact with 55 stick checking compared to 99, it should be the same power and effectiveness of knocking the puck loose. Right now there is no window where the offensive player has to wait to regain the puck (even a second), based off their attributes, and anything the dev team says otherwise is a blatant lie. Period. There is no reason why an enforcer should get the puck back immediately when my attributes double his and my player is in a better position body and stick/hand wise to pick up the puck

    Oops 6'2'' anyways here is what I use. I've never believed in the awareness stat even back in the 360 days felt like it was overrated. Imo Puck Control is more about not losing it than picking it up as it's in the offensive category. Also the minute people lose the puck they instantly stick lift anyways to get it right back and then usually pull back so you are more likely to take a penalty or miss. Like for me literally when someone gets close I'm ready to hit that stick lift to get it right back.
    r5bp274d4vcg.jpg

    I see where you made a couple mistakes. Your 1st trait slot should be the stick checking 2 instead of strength. Unless you are going for hits all game and getting a ton of 1xers all game, there's no need to waste a slot on strength. Plus, the PMD handeye is 79 and that helps picking up loose picks so try the deflection master red trait instead of marathon man. You dont need marathon man on defense. That tells me you are all over the place and relying on that to help get back into position.

    Give it a shot, hope it helps.
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    Follisimo wrote: »
    Defense isn't that hard when it comes to playing 6s. It does require the team to play better defense all around. I'm using a 6'3'' 190 lbs Puckmoving. I literally have no problem staying with and staying in front of the speedsters. Hitting requires better timing this year instead of just holding up and the game locking in for you. Poke checks work fine also. Passing in general is slow in 6s and requires your team to shrink their breakout giving you more options.

    If you are complaining about defense in 1s or drop-ins then it's not really even close to the same as AI can only do so much and drop-in isn't exactly organized.

    Go watch the best teams play and you will see.
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/481539611?filter=archives&sort=time

    First off this is impossible.. cannot make a larger PMD or a smaller TWD

    Secondly it is way too often that sticks to through pucks and other sticks only for the puck to be not knocked loose or knocked loose and then simultaneously regained. I use a PMD with 90 DA, 95 OA, and 89 puck control and can’t pick up anything. Stick checking attribute should reflect mainly the success of stick lift, as well as penalties caused by stick infractions. It should NOT reflect the success of a physical object moving through another physical object. If I make stick on puck contact with 55 stick checking compared to 99, it should be the same power and effectiveness of knocking the puck loose. Right now there is no window where the offensive player has to wait to regain the puck (even a second), based off their attributes, and anything the dev team says otherwise is a blatant lie. Period. There is no reason why an enforcer should get the puck back immediately when my attributes double his and my player is in a better position body and stick/hand wise to pick up the puck

    Oops 6'2'' anyways here is what I use. I've never believed in the awareness stat even back in the 360 days felt like it was overrated. Imo Puck Control is more about not losing it than picking it up as it's in the offensive category. Also the minute people lose the puck they instantly stick lift anyways to get it right back and then usually pull back so you are more likely to take a penalty or miss. Like for me literally when someone gets close I'm ready to hit that stick lift to get it right back.
    r5bp274d4vcg.jpg

    I see where you made a couple mistakes. Your 1st trait slot should be the stick checking 2 instead of strength. Unless you are going for hits all game and getting a ton of 1xers all game, there's no need to waste a slot on strength. Plus, the PMD handeye is 79 and that helps picking up loose picks so try the deflection master red trait instead of marathon man. You dont need marathon man on defense. That tells me you are all over the place and relying on that to help get back into position.

    Give it a shot, hope it helps.

    Why would you use “deflection master” trait on a D man!? That trait is for standing in front of the net...trying to redirect shots.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1121 posts Member
    edited September 18
    What does a dman need deflection master for? Dmen don't need the lungs that's true, instead I always take the red backskating thingy. I don't waste slot on stick-checking because - well either you do it right or you don't do it at all - besides if you get a laggy game, you can forget about poking in general.
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