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Defense getting shredded

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  • VeNOM2099
    2527 posts Member
    edited September 19
    As you say, the more successful you play, the more boring it is, because in the end, all the boring stuff on D is what works. I see a player twirling in the corner, I leave him there until he is done and wants to play hockey. When I do this, they just twirl around wondering why I am not chasing them. I prevent easy entry to the high slot while being in a position to cut off the path to behind the net. Cat and Mouse. I sit, I wait, I react. I let the forward commit or cough it up. Worse case scenario, my winger comes in and smashes him as the carrier is caught between my winger and myself. Not exciting for me as a D man, but it works. Fine by me as the team comes first for me.

    Pretty much. It's just basic defense. Dance around in the corner all you want but you're not getting this open slot! I'm not into chasing the puck either.

    But it becomes more complicated when your defensive partner isn't in sync with you. I liked the TWD build in the lone game I played as defense. Kept the offense down to a minimum. I got a bump off the puck with a nicely timed shove in front of the net. I disrupted plenty of passes and cross crease one timer attempts. Used the DSS to stand people at the blue line trying to dangle in and strip the puck off them. The only issue I had was with passing which was a bit off for me. Last year I could usually hit my forwards with the DD build. Now passes either whiff entirely or they angle to the wrong player. I tried one sauce pass, it didn't even lift off the ice. LOL!

    I didn't get any points at all, but I was content to hold the fort down and allow my team to win. One goal was my fault as I didn't get into position quickly enough. The other I felt I was there, but the forward still got the shot off through my stick/legs. Oh well...
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • langowski39
    66 posts Member
    edited September 19
    Having played Defense only since 10. I can say I have actually enjoyed playing defense in 20 and 19. I am beinging to think people are just stuck in their ways. Defense is all about disrupting the play then it is trying to gain possession. Which quite frankly it should be. I have had a lot of success using the DDS to sweep at the puck and knock it loose for one of my back checking forwards to attempt to recover the puck. I almost never use the actual poke check anymore. And even when I do I use it in combo with the DDS. I have also been using the DDS to position my stick in between myself and the passing lane. If you watch alot if in-zone defense in the NHL you will see alot of times players will keep their stick out in a passing lane or close to it as a passive check while maintaining position. I am of the thought that people need to adapt instead of being EA to fix what really isn't broken. Since the dawn of the EASHL I have felt that defending the 2 on 1 cross crease was pick your poison on who you chose to defend because you had to; this year I don't. I have pick off my fair share of passes in the slot which is one of the reason I find myself asking am I playing the same game as everyone else. Goaltending is indeed improved. One thing I have noticed is that a goalie when screened won't automatically drop himself into the butterfly and will try to anticipate where the shot is at-least coming from. As for a D-man defending a forward on the rush: you never much can use the DDS to break up the play before he breaks your cushion but again timing and patience is required something this community is clearly lacking. The metas changed. The tools are there. Now its just down to the community to adapt and quit whining because they have to adapt.
    If you see Grammar or Spelling errors. I am starting to experience the long term effects of ten plus concussions.
  • Telling people to adapt to broken mechanics is like telling people to drive without a steering wheel. Can you do it? Probably. Should you? Not really. There are a plethora of things wrong with the defensive tools that make it more harder for me to poke check a puck without getting a penalty than it is for a forward to scream down the ice, link four dekes together, LT dance around the circle, and then put in short side wrister from so deep near the boards, you wonder why the goalie didn't just hug the post. Just because you can play D (and given my record, I certainly can), doesn't mean that there should be no advocating for change. This is why nothing gets changed.
  • Yep. I play as a DDman and I have never felt so useless. My poke check is non existent, my break out passes miss 9/10 times.

    I love when I have the guy lined up for a head on collision a long the boards and he just bounces off me, never losing the puck and now its a race back and wondering if its worth it to try and poke check him and risk taking the tripping call.

    RPM baby
  • Yep. I play as a DDman and I have never felt so useless. My poke check is non existent, my break out passes miss 9/10 times.

    DDman?? Holy crap. I haven't seen anyone play this build in a LONG time.
  • Additionally the speed of the game right now is wayyy too fast. Change it to broadcast and you’ll see how this game doesn’t reflect NHL speed. NHL 19 was probably 2-3x faster than NHL hockey. NHL 20 is like 4-5x faster, it’s crazy

    Speed doesn’t always equal fun. It’s nauseating playing any position other than forward. Even with perfect connection its extremely difficult to have a human response time that fast to make the smart play, add to the fact that the controller is often unresponsive due to slight button delay and you get a recipe for disaster. It’s broke...

    So true, you have to decide to make a pass before deciding to make a pass. The input delay is where I typically get burned.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Yep. I play as a DDman and I have never felt so useless. My poke check is non existent, my break out passes miss 9/10 times.

    DDman?? Holy crap. I haven't seen anyone play this build in a LONG time.

    I played DD up until last year. This year I tried DD during the BETA and it took me about 2-3 games to adjust, but even then it was brutal how badly I would get burned by the overly speedy/agile forwards.

    I switched up to TWD in the few games I've tried in the trial and succeeded so far. So unless they change anything from now until the time the game comes out in the Vault, i'm gonna stick with TWD.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Yep. I play as a DDman and I have never felt so useless. My poke check is non existent, my break out passes miss 9/10 times.

    DDman?? Holy crap. I haven't seen anyone play this build in a LONG time.

    I played DD up until last year. This year I tried DD during the BETA and it took me about 2-3 games to adjust, but even then it was brutal how badly I would get burned by the overly speedy/agile forwards.

    I switched up to TWD in the few games I've tried in the trial and succeeded so far. So unless they change anything from now until the time the game comes out in the Vault, i'm gonna stick with TWD.

    I roll TWD in 6v6 and PMD in 3v3. Feel like the passing is good enough with TWD so you’re not completely useless on breakouts and in o-zone, but TWD feels more like DFD and TWD feels more like PMD this year. All three classes need to be increased to keep up with the shifty forwards and now a new shooting system where you can literally score from anywhere
  • Seriously guys, try SNP or DNG for your D-men. I was going to say to also roll with D perks on them, but I switched to Passing 2 with Quick Step 2, as well as Iron Lungs (Can't remember the name). I can barely hit unless I have speed, but if I can angle to the boards while forwards are streaking in, I've got some play. Hasn't failed me yet, but I'm waiting for the inevitable string of not being able to do anything on D, no matter what I do.
  • VeNOM2099
    2527 posts Member
    edited September 21
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Yep. I play as a DDman and I have never felt so useless. My poke check is non existent, my break out passes miss 9/10 times.

    DDman?? Holy crap. I haven't seen anyone play this build in a LONG time.

    I played DD up until last year. This year I tried DD during the BETA and it took me about 2-3 games to adjust, but even then it was brutal how badly I would get burned by the overly speedy/agile forwards.

    I switched up to TWD in the few games I've tried in the trial and succeeded so far. So unless they change anything from now until the time the game comes out in the Vault, i'm gonna stick with TWD.

    I roll TWD in 6v6 and PMD in 3v3. Feel like the passing is good enough with TWD so you’re not completely useless on breakouts and in o-zone, but TWD feels more like DFD and TWD feels more like PMD this year. All three classes need to be increased to keep up with the shifty forwards and now a new shooting system where you can literally score from anywhere

    If only there was a way to actually use your body to contain the player like in real hockey. Not this broken tie-up system where you and your opponent need to be standing still to engage. Or the stick mechanics that need to be used in very specific contexts to work without a penalty.

    @TheMajjam

    As for using a forward build on a defenseman, it's not a terrible idea. But I'm not trying to be helpfull on offense, I want to be more helpful on defense and NONE of the current builds, either foward or defense give me what I want. Also, I feel like I would just become another one of the "chel bruhs" looking to find a loop-hole in the game to help me get ahead, rather than use my own skill and knowledge to make something work that should work as intended.

    Call me old fashioned (and hard headed) that way! ;)
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Seriously guys, try SNP or DNG for your D-men. I was going to say to also roll with D perks on them, but I switched to Passing 2 with Quick Step 2, as well as Iron Lungs (Can't remember the name). I can barely hit unless I have speed, but if I can angle to the boards while forwards are streaking in, I've got some play. Hasn't failed me yet, but I'm waiting for the inevitable string of not being able to do anything on D, no matter what I do.

    No offense but I’m assuming you play drop in only? A good forward should be able to navigate around that fairly easily. If your defensive awareness isn’t high enough you’re going to get run over by the better players no matter how good you are. I wouldn’t any forward as a dman unless it’s playmaker (if you don’t care about backchecking) or two way forward. Sniper is a hard no for me
  • Lol, I dont' play sniper even when I am the offence... that guy has only speed and shot going for him, not my style really.

    One has to wonder how people play defence, if that's the best build for it in their mind? I would think you'd have to completely forget about physical side like showing people from front of the goal or hitting them in general. What you most definitely don't need is iron lungs, as a dman I am never out of stamina. Quite the contrary, I always have full green bar.

    Maybe I play too conservatively like a DFD really (only use PMD) , but I think that's the only way to be good dman in this game. I do go on the offense occasinally but I pick my moments, and have a winger fill in when I do. I just don't get in situations where I have to chase anyone, if I can help it. I stay between the puck and our goal, and let the opponent come to me. If they don't, I am good with that because it means they can shoot from the outside only. Those SHOULD be easy saves.
  • normanethan
    23 posts Member
    edited September 21
    What are you guys talking about, D is easy now. Balance sucks and it's way to easy to intercept and knock people off the puck. This game is a dumpster fire. The tuner feels like the one in 19 after the first update too me. This game gets to be less fun every year, frustration isn't fun.

    [Socair - edited for profanity]
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Seriously guys, try SNP or DNG for your D-men. I was going to say to also roll with D perks on them, but I switched to Passing 2 with Quick Step 2, as well as Iron Lungs (Can't remember the name). I can barely hit unless I have speed, but if I can angle to the boards while forwards are streaking in, I've got some play. Hasn't failed me yet, but I'm waiting for the inevitable string of not being able to do anything on D, no matter what I do.

    No offense but I’m assuming you play drop in only? A good forward should be able to navigate around that fairly easily. If your defensive awareness isn’t high enough you’re going to get run over by the better players no matter how good you are. I wouldn’t any forward as a dman unless it’s playmaker (if you don’t care about backchecking) or two way forward. Sniper is a hard no for me

    None taken. 25-5-1 for 3's drops, 16-3-1 for club. I'm usually the sole D guy unless we have all 5 of us guys playing, which is very rare for us. Defending in 6's club is insanely easier than defending in 3's. Puck control and stick work is good enough for D with SNP. I honestly can't go back to using anything slower at all.
  • I play D and it feels like the only reliable thing I can do is intercept a cross-crease pass.
    Poke check - Trips 90% of the time, even when executed well.
    Stick lift - Good luck. You either lift a guy running side by side or your hacking 6 feet high and stop skating.
    Hitting - I play as an OD, so hitting isn't a part of my game.
  • On the flip side, try a TWD in a forward position.
  • JubeiDOK wrote: »
    On the flip side, try a TWD in a forward position.

    I've seen quite a few of these. Seems like people like the build there.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    There are a few things you may be seeing with incidental stick on stick contact.

    We fixed a few issues where the puck would stop and not continue it's current momentum and we also improved pickups as well as allowed pickups to occur while skating. This has made incidental puck loss from stick on stick less of a jarring experience as players can lose the puck and pick it up again in stride without as much delay. We may want to look at tuning for reaction time to reacquire a puck but it works equally for all skaters. It can actually help defenders and players in their own zone to have responsive pickups as well.

    If you make contact with the actual puck, it works the same as last year.

    We also improved the consistency of pokecheck speeds so that none of them fell below the speed of the best ones when poking to the front. This was mostly felt last year on loose pucks but it would have impacted all pokes depending on the relative angle to the puck.

    I definitely wouldn't suggest turning your back to the offense as others have suggested and would fully suggest being goal side, backskating with a good gap, angling players to the boards and towards their backhand when possible.

    Good Day,
    Love the game. Question; I play offline. Can you tell me what the “computer difficulty” slider actually does?

    Cheers

  • With D Tools being limited to passive play, there is no attribute group I want more for my Dman than Skating. This limits me to Sniper/Dangler when playing D if the opponent has any tiny dancers. If the opponent has bigger forwards, I use a bigger class.

    Still waiting for player class tuning (the easiest tuning EA could do, and didnt do once last year). Tiny players shouldn't be the best at all three of Speed / Accel / Agility. The fastest player in the NHL is 6'1". Tiny players should have the best quickness (Accel + Agility) but its so ridiculous to also give them the best top speed.

    Where's the Defensive Minded + Skating class? Any player that can skate well has to be offensive minded?
    EASHL player

  • Where's the Defensive Minded + Skating class? Any player that can skate well has to be offensive minded?

    The closest you can get to this right now is a grinder, with defensive traits. It's the closest to a decent skating DD that you can get.
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