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Ice Tilt/Dynamic difficulty adjustment - Mega thread

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Mc41DMB
83 posts Member
edited October 2019
Hey EA devs, exactly how much more ice tilt is added to your game on weekends as opposed to weekdays?
Post edited by EA_Roger on

Replies

  • This game is pure garbage
  • Some things you see happening can be attributed to EAs hot garbage servers. More traffic on the weekends. That said I’m still waiting for an explanation as to how a bad connection makes your AI play dumb hockey sometimes and super smart near perfect hockey the next.
  • I cant understand why they think its good thing to put in game. Ice tilt and LT are worst things in this game.
  • EA is getting pretty desperate at this point to gain new customers. Ice tilt is even stronger this year and if you noticed they reduced game speed and increased puck intercepts in order to keep scores closer and keep the weaker player in it.
  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    Hey EA devs, exactly how much more ice tilt is added to your game on weekends as opposed to weekdays?

    This year it's more obvious than ever
  • Oh, so now it's okay to talk about Ice Tilt? Now it's a "thing"?

    I thought EA said it wasn't in the game because in the past if someone mentioned "Ice Tilt" in a thread, a fiery response quickly showed up stating something like "OMG, EA said it's not in the game, SO IT'S NOT IN the GAME, Git good"!
  • Steven5470
    349 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    I'm even noticing it in the Pro-Am feature. I put the difficulty level at semi-pro just so I can have fun with it and let out aggression on this game. Every game I scored about 8+ goals....until I get to the "final" challenges of each round. Then, my AI teammates get plain idiotic, can't shoot, can't pass, and all the shots I made before no longer work. Played a game where all I needed was one goal. I shot, scored, and it was disallowed...in PRO AM!?? For what? Isn't Pro Am basically a NHL Hitz mode? So I could have won, but the CPU decided no. Oh, and the CPU scored after to make the game 4-4...you know, to make the game close.

    If I lose the first game, then select 'retry', my guys are suddenly good again the very next game. It's as if the programming says, "Okay..he lost so lets make his team good again for the next game." It's crazy and extremely evident this year.

    Last year, I blamed it more on the lack of separation with player ratings. I used a re-rated roster, and the game played great. However, this year, it exists. No matter how many videos you show supporting this, they will continue to deny it...again. EA just doesn't care. This game should be fun, not a chore.
    Post edited by Steven5470 on
  • I always thought it was mostly connection quality/difference that made things seem one-sided. Now, if people are still having this problem pop up in offline modes then what's really going on here and why is the topic considered taboo to discuss?? You can call it a hundred things, but ice-tilt or EA cheating are my favorites.

    What bothers me the most is that EA denies anything like that happening in the game, but plenty of players feel otherwise. Then EA turns around and says things like "it's your internet connection," and maybe I believed that for a while, but then why would offline modes show the same inconsistencies as the online modes do?

    What's the conspiracy here?
  • Yes this about fifa but all same things can be said about nhl.

  • TR4N23 wrote: »
    EA is getting pretty desperate at this point to gain new customers. Ice tilt is even stronger this year and if you noticed they reduced game speed and increased puck intercepts in order to keep scores closer and keep the weaker player in it.

    Then why is almost everyone saying game speed is faster than prior years and in fact, alot are saying it's too fast?

    You are the only person here who has stated game speed is actually slower this year...
  • Just my two cents.

    Playing Squab Battles I was steamrolling opponents on Allstar with an 82 overall team running Anders Nilsson. A 77 overall goalie if I'm not mistaken. Game is playing smooth and responsive.

    I dropped 200k I've been saving and grease my team to 87 with 84 Price in net. Son of a gun is letting in the softest trash, gameplay is slow and unresponsive to the point where I need to change my strategies so they actually exert energy, getting caught on breakaways with guys like Marner and McKinnon by silver bums.

    It's probably in my head he said sarcastically.
  • I landed Price in my Starter Pack and he played real well for me until I rolled Roy last weekend.
  • Taste-D-Rainbow
    2502 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    It's hard to put into words but in a nutshell the more I juice my team, the more I have to combat responsiveness. It's as if I deal with latency so I cant get to that spot I wanted to or adjust the player quick enough and a lot of the time it results in goals against.

    Games are versus the CPU so latency shouldn't be an issue but that's the best way I can describe it.

    I dont feel this when I play CHEL where latency should play a much larger factor.
  • All of the things you guys are bringing up is clearly explained by dynamic difficulty adjustment. It's actually built into the game...look it up.

    There's a ton of info about this system with Fifa since so many play that over NHL.
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    All of the things you guys are bringing up is clearly explained by dynamic difficulty adjustment. It's actually built into the game...look it up.

    There's a ton of info about this system with Fifa since so many play that over NHL.

    Well the EA Devs have repeatedly made statements in threads like these that it simply doesn’t exist. They have offered a few explanations as to what could be causing what we see but none of those explanations answer my AI question. Since last year I’ve asked the AI question in detail and that’s when the conversation goes dark. I am mire than willing to believe them that it doesn’t exist just for the love of God answer the AI question......

    Still waiting.....
  • Just my two cents.

    Playing Squab Battles I was steamrolling opponents on Allstar with an 82 overall team running Anders Nilsson. A 77 overall goalie if I'm not mistaken. Game is playing smooth and responsive.

    I dropped 200k I've been saving and grease my team to 87 with 84 Price in net. Son of a gun is letting in the softest trash, gameplay is slow and unresponsive to the point where I need to change my strategies so they actually exert energy, getting caught on breakaways with guys like Marner and McKinnon by silver bums.

    It's probably in my head he said sarcastically.

    I have price and hes just bad. Goalies in general are just bad. They still need an overhaul on goalies, as far as I can see they play almost the same as previous years.

    I personally dont feel that my higher rated team became more sluggish, I notice that I'm punished more for making mistakes especially against the 85+ ai superstar teams.

    I'm still not convince that there is a handicap against higher rated teams.
  • Ampereturn
    69 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    @NHLDev , please turn off Dynamic game balancing.
  • EA_Roger
    1482 posts EA Community Manager
    I'm going to make this conversation the main conversation for DDA/ Ice tilt for NHL 20. Any comments/topics on this will be merged here going forward.

    I'd like to start off by saying that I do not care if you believe in this or not, regardless of which side of the fence you are on be mindful of others and be sure to debate in a constructive manner. If not we will be forced to intervene.

    I doubt we'll see devs drop into these conversations as this is an extremely busy time of the year and this won't be a priority. I did dig up some of our Dev's responses on this subject that you can find here:

    I also loved one of Tyler's (previous CM for NHL) replies on this, he took the time to write this up on reddit at the time. Be warned this is extremely detailed & long.
    Forewarning, this will be the only time I answer this as it’s repetitive and tedious and no matter what gets said, people will just choose to ignore it if it doesn't fit their beliefs.
    Ice tilt doesn’t exist. It might as well be a new term for cognitive biases in games. There are a few reasons why people feel like it "exists":


    Internet Connection (sluggishness/lack of responsiveness)
    As mentioned in here, connection is the only factor that will make the game feel “sluggish”.
    This is something I experience at home myself; when my family is on the internet using even light applications (things like Facebook, streaming music, etc.), my connection isn’t as smooth. It causes that feeling of sluggishness because your ping (response time) is higher which means your inputs are slightly delayed. They sometimes do this in the middle of games which is where it feels sluggish (and oh god when they facetime someone RIP my connection).
    If you’re experience decreases and increases during games, it’s likely just your internet connection fluctuating especially if you are on a wireless connection.
    Potential Solutions:
    • If you’re on wireless connection and can get a hardwired ethernet connection, it should help a lot. It’s made a world of difference for myself.
    • Regularly monitor your internet speeds. Normally I check my internet connection once a week if everything seems fine; if at some point it seems sluggish, I’ll check it to make sure nothing is up there. Some tools for this are Speedtest.net and Testmy.net. If there’s issues with the speed you have compared to what you’re supposed to have, contact your ISP.
    • Make sure your equipment is up running properly and is up to date. Things such as making sure you’re using at least a Cat-5 ethernet cable (Cat-5e and Cat-6 cables are better) and that you’re using up-to-date modems/routers/switches.
    • Finally, if you are limited to wifi, try to be as close to the wireless access point as possible. Speed will drop off over distance/how many walls there are between you and the access point.
    • One not related to internet, but playing on a gaming monitor with 0-1ms response rate will be slightly more responsive than a TV with a higher response rate that do impact your play.

    Cognitive Biases (These things are fascinating)

    The TL;DR here: everyone naturally has biases that can take a lot of work to overcome. I’ll list a few of the main ones here, but man the human brain is interesting. If you’ve got some time to kill, I’ve laid out three of the main ones below.

    Negativity Bias
    Negativity bias extremely common and it is the tendency to be more impacted and affected by negative/bad moments than good ones. This means that you will remember bad things that happen over good ones. Here’s more on [Negativity Bias]( https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200306/our-brains-negative-bias] + Wiki Page.
    This means you’re more likely to remember a bad poke or goal against than one for (this happens to pretty much everyone).

    Recency Effect
    Recency effect is pretty much the fact that you’re more likely to remember something that happened recently as opposed to something that happened earlier. Where this applies in game is if you have a bad goal go in near the end of the game, you’ll remember that moment more than if one went in your favour earlier on in the game.
    This can also get compounded with negativity biases, as you’re more likely to remember and be impacted by a recent negative event than a positive one.

    Confirmation Bias
    Confirmation bias is also something that is very common. Confirmation bias is the tendency to only accept evidence that supports your beliefs while ignoring others that go against it. It’s even evident in this thread. The notion of “no matter what EA tells us, they’re wrong” is a confirmation bias because no matter what anyone says against it, it’s instantly dismissed and rejected even if it doesn’t come from EA.
    An IRL example would be people who believe the Earth is flat but Mars is round, despite numerous pieces and evidence pointing out that the Earth is indeed round. More on Confirmation Bias + Wiki.


    The Mental and Physical Effects of Frustration.
    All the cognitive biases can further add to your frustration when you’re not winning. There is a sensation associated with all of this that’s called Tilt; it’s the mental state where your frustration causes you to adopt a less than optimal strategy.
    When you’re frustrated, you will likely be over-aggressive or make more mistakes than if you were at a calm level. This can cause everything to spiral and can also cause the biases to further compound on each other, essentially spiraling into a never-ending pit of negativity and rarely recognizing the positives.
    As much as being good at a game requires physical skill, coordination, and knowledge, the mental side of keeping calm and your emotions in check is often overlooked as it has a larger impact than what you might think.
    I know I can become frustrated playing any game, and it’s super important to keep my frustrations in check in order to be playing the best I can. The study of sport performance psychology (and gaming too) is just beginning, however generally top athletes and gamers perform their best when calm and not acting out in frustration.
    Here are some things that can help keep your frustrations in check:
    • Having a cold glass of water nearby to drink when frustrated
    • This helps your brain focus on the coldness of the water rather than your frustrations
    • Listening to more calming/chill music
    • This will again help your brain focus on remaining calm. Don’t get me wrong, pump up music is good to get the juices flowing. However, when it’s game time try some more calming music. I’m not saying to go out and play jazz (which is apparently the best), but maybe don’t play Lose Yourself on repeat because it can cause you to lose yourself.
    • Deep Breathing
    • Deep breathing is an incredible tool. If something bad happens (i.e. a goal against, penalty, etc.), take a few seconds to do some deep breaths (about 5-6 seconds in and 5-6 seconds out) and focus on your breathing. Once again, this takes your mind off the frustration.
    • Focus on the next play
    • Leave the last play behind you; it’s done, it’s over with and you can review it after the game. If you keep focusing on it, you won’t be thinking in the now fully which will hinder your performance. Thinking about the now will also focus your brain away from the frustration.

    Wrap Up
    There’s no such thing as ice tilt. Every game you play uses the same difficulty (All-star) and same tuner (Competitive). You can view these tuners in Settings > Gameplay Sliders (make sure you have the Competitive Slider selected).
    In terms of the sport of hockey, it, at its core, is an inherently random sport. It’s why the best teams in the league (Nashville, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh) only have a 60-70% chance to win over the worst teams in the league (Buffalo, Vancouver, Arizona).
    In NHL, you’ll have games where you might get a couple extra bounces and that’s the difference. Also, repetitive behavior will cause your opponent to adjust to how you’re playing which is why opponents can feel stronger as games go along because you haven’t changed your plan and have become predictable.

    Additionally, in hockey and sport in general there is the phenomenon of ‘Score Effects’, where teams with the lead tend to inherently play more defensive to try to shut the game down, which in turn allows the opposition more offensive opportunities which causes the comebacks to happen. This also happens in video games like NHL. This article by someone who is now working in the NHL is a great breakdown of it. If you’re interested in learning more on score effects, Hockey Graphs has many excellent articles on it and hockey analytics in general.

    Where real hockey and video game hockey are different is that in video game hockey, people constantly trying to and are able to successfully generate more high percentage scoring chances in NHL 18 than real life hockey. While there are a couple in game that aren’t realistic (and they’re always being worked on), for the most part cross creases, breakaways with backhand forehand/other moves, shots from the slot, etc. are high percentage scoring chances in real life that people are able to generate more in NHL than real life hockey. It's why some
    Anyways, super long post but it doesn't exist.
  • Tylytys wrote: »
    Yes this about fifa but all same things can be said about nhl.


    https://fifaforums.easports.com/en/discussion/448322/fifa-19-squad-battles-rigged

    I found this after trying to figure out why a 72 ovr hut squad battle team was infinitely harder to play against than an 88 ovr team. Both on all star. If i didn't know it was based on fifa squad battles, I'd swear they were describing the nhl squad battles.
  • Z0mbieBabyJesus
    1119 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Just my two cents.

    Playing Squab Battles I was steamrolling opponents on Allstar with an 82 overall team running Anders Nilsson. A 77 overall goalie if I'm not mistaken. Game is playing smooth and responsive.

    I dropped 200k I've been saving and grease my team to 87 with 84 Price in net. Son of a gun is letting in the softest trash, gameplay is slow and unresponsive to the point where I need to change my strategies so they actually exert energy, getting caught on breakaways with guys like Marner and McKinnon by silver bums.

    It's probably in my head he said sarcastically.

    It's not. Imo, squad battles is that dynamic difficulty thing they patented, brought to fruition. There's zero reason for silver players to out perform mid to high 80s players, regardless of how smart they play.

    This is the first year that it feels like that, to me anyway.

    Also, might be purely anecdotal, but I've noticed a trend, that if the ai is down and needing a goal, the game stops your line changes to ensure you're tired as hell and it becomes an easy goal by the ai who apparently are immune to fatigue. Every time, it happens when I'm up, without fail.

    [Edited for minor swearing]
    Post edited by EA_Roger on
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