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Ice Tilt/Dynamic difficulty adjustment - Mega thread

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  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Agreed with the above and likewise the AI should play consistently also based on the players you have out.

    In online matchups the player ratings of your AI teammates are totally meaningless and the way they play is just random. If you run out quality players passing lanes should be closed, forecheck should be tight, and opponents tied up by the AI.

    Won’t happen because people would actually have to dump and chase, cycle, and try hard to create scoring chances.....you know ....like real hockey.

    All the top dogs and twitch streamers would lose their minds if they had to actually play real hockey instead of cheesing and glitching their way to 30-0 records each competitive season. EA wouldn’t want to upset the apple cart.....
  • Here’s some easy advice EA to regain some credibility with your sports titles. What the player sees on his screen should mirror what is happening on the controller. This is a good starting point.
  • I've never seen a game with such little skill gap as this version of NHL. Honestly like flipping a coin before the game as to who wins
  • Can somebody from this dev team please explain the sporadic controller input delay? It’s clearly intended to handicap the affected players in-game ability so the sorrier team can hang around.
  • Steven5470 wrote: »
    I would just like to see game play be based off the player ratings, period. No extra boosts, ice tilt, or anything like that. If I have a player with a 95 skating speed, he should skate like a 95 speed. If I have a player with a 75 speed, same thing...skate like a 75.

    The 75 rated should not catch the 95 in a foot race which happens all too frequently in this game. Look at the number of videos posted recently and for last years version.

    Biggest suggestion, remove sliders that affect player ratings. I firmly believe that the sliders can 'wash' out the player ratings and give that 'boost' feeling and take away the player separation. The pass accuracy should be player rating based, not a slider. If I put the pass accuracy slider at 20 and have a player with a 75 pass accuracy....technically, his skill drops because of the slider. Same with shot accuracy.

    If this game was based off player ratings I think you would have a 'truer' SIM style game and better player separation. Back in the day there was a game called Superstar Ice Hockey for the Apple IIGs. The game play was based on player ratings and you felt it when you played the game. That is not the case with this game. I'll play as Gretzky in this game and feel like I'm playing as a 2nd line center.

    EA has lost touch with what a sports SIM should be. Somehow, they got Arcade and SIM blurred and confused.

    Great idea, but sadly alot of players would complain they can't dangle through 46 defenders after being on the ice for 12 minutes to get a clean breakaway that should always be a goal btw. Goalies are never allowed to stop breakaways....

    This has been instilled and embedded in people's minds because of the culture and mindset that EA implemented about 12 years ago. Team sport? Play as a team to win? Move the puck when a defender get near you? What are these shenanigans???
  • Steven5470 wrote: »
    I would just like to see game play be based off the player ratings, period. No extra boosts, ice tilt, or anything like that. If I have a player with a 95 skating speed, he should skate like a 95 speed. If I have a player with a 75 speed, same thing...skate like a 75.

    The 75 rated should not catch the 95 in a foot race which happens all too frequently in this game. Look at the number of videos posted recently and for last years version.

    Biggest suggestion, remove sliders that affect player ratings. I firmly believe that the sliders can 'wash' out the player ratings and give that 'boost' feeling and take away the player separation. The pass accuracy should be player rating based, not a slider. If I put the pass accuracy slider at 20 and have a player with a 75 pass accuracy....technically, his skill drops because of the slider. Same with shot accuracy.

    If this game was based off player ratings I think you would have a 'truer' SIM style game and better player separation. Back in the day there was a game called Superstar Ice Hockey for the Apple IIGs. The game play was based on player ratings and you felt it when you played the game. That is not the case with this game. I'll play as Gretzky in this game and feel like I'm playing as a 2nd line center.

    EA has lost touch with what a sports SIM should be. Somehow, they got Arcade and SIM blurred and confused.

    While I agree with what you're saying in principle, you're losing track of what is important. And I can tell you, it's not the game of hockey, it's not your fun factor, it's not a sim experience or even about who has the best players. It's all about making a game that caters to little Billy so little Billy always feels like he's in the game and just one player away from being competitive. Why is it all about little Billy ? Because little Billy spends tons of money on the game in order to get the higher overall players on his team, because little Billy constantly finds himself in one goal games where he feels like he is truly competitive.

    THAT, is ALL that matters. The irregularities you see during game play are completely irrelevant. A fresh Patrick Kane straight out of the bench going on a breakaway suddenly caught up with by a 64 overall defender ? Check. Why ? Because little Billy needs to feel that he's always in the game so he can shell his (parents) hard earned money to get the better player.

    That is the reason why there is zero skill gap. That is the reason attributes are pretty much meaningless on cards. Because it all gets thrown into the blender when puck drops just so EA can go and get little Billy's money.

    And it's not only in NHL or even only with EA. The practice is spread like a disease in all the card games. The Show used to be the exception but they caved in to the almighty little Billy over there too.

    I've said it before in another post, I'll repeat it again. The RNG during the games is there to stay. The sooner you come to peace with this, the better you'll be (either playing accepting it, or leaving the game altogether). The game is not broken. It is designed that way very much on purpose, and the purpose is to milk as much money from people as possible. Because this is a business, and what matters is the bottom line. Your fun factor does not make the list.

    I don't condone it. But it is what it is and it's not going to change any time soon.
  • Eldur74 wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    I would just like to see game play be based off the player ratings, period. No extra boosts, ice tilt, or anything like that. If I have a player with a 95 skating speed, he should skate like a 95 speed. If I have a player with a 75 speed, same thing...skate like a 75.

    The 75 rated should not catch the 95 in a foot race which happens all too frequently in this game. Look at the number of videos posted recently and for last years version.

    Biggest suggestion, remove sliders that affect player ratings. I firmly believe that the sliders can 'wash' out the player ratings and give that 'boost' feeling and take away the player separation. The pass accuracy should be player rating based, not a slider. If I put the pass accuracy slider at 20 and have a player with a 75 pass accuracy....technically, his skill drops because of the slider. Same with shot accuracy.

    If this game was based off player ratings I think you would have a 'truer' SIM style game and better player separation. Back in the day there was a game called Superstar Ice Hockey for the Apple IIGs. The game play was based on player ratings and you felt it when you played the game. That is not the case with this game. I'll play as Gretzky in this game and feel like I'm playing as a 2nd line center.

    EA has lost touch with what a sports SIM should be. Somehow, they got Arcade and SIM blurred and confused.

    While I agree with what you're saying in principle, you're losing track of what is important. And I can tell you, it's not the game of hockey, it's not your fun factor, it's not a sim experience or even about who has the best players. It's all about making a game that caters to little Billy so little Billy always feels like he's in the game and just one player away from being competitive. Why is it all about little Billy ? Because little Billy spends tons of money on the game in order to get the higher overall players on his team, because little Billy constantly finds himself in one goal games where he feels like he is truly competitive.

    THAT, is ALL that matters. The irregularities you see during game play are completely irrelevant. A fresh Patrick Kane straight out of the bench going on a breakaway suddenly caught up with by a 64 overall defender ? Check. Why ? Because little Billy needs to feel that he's always in the game so he can shell his (parents) hard earned money to get the better player.

    That is the reason why there is zero skill gap. That is the reason attributes are pretty much meaningless on cards. Because it all gets thrown into the blender when puck drops just so EA can go and get little Billy's money.

    And it's not only in NHL or even only with EA. The practice is spread like a disease in all the card games. The Show used to be the exception but they caved in to the almighty little Billy over there too.

    I've said it before in another post, I'll repeat it again. The RNG during the games is there to stay. The sooner you come to peace with this, the better you'll be (either playing accepting it, or leaving the game altogether). The game is not broken. It is designed that way very much on purpose, and the purpose is to milk as much money from people as possible. Because this is a business, and what matters is the bottom line. Your fun factor does not make the list.

    I don't condone it. But it is what it is and it's not going to change any time soon.

    You are probably spot on. Can't get a confirmation on it, but it sure feels that way.
  • You can instantly tell what kind of game you are going to get. At the start you'll either feel like the players are skating or the next game for some reason it will feel like they are skating in quick sand.

    You can also see it off the opening faceoff. If you win it back clean and your center instantly creates separation with speed, it's going to be a good game. If he gets stuck on the opposing center or delays and duuuurrrrrhs then you're fighting the elements.

    Its been like that for as long as I can remember. Like clock work
  • headup81
    101 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Eldur74 wrote: »
    I've said it before in another post, I'll repeat it again. The RNG during the games is there to stay. The sooner you come to peace with this, the better you'll be (either playing accepting it, or leaving the game altogether). The game is not broken. It is designed that way very much on purpose, and the purpose is to milk as much money from people as possible. Because this is a business, and what matters is the bottom line. Your fun factor does not make the list.

    Your post is spot on. I agree that it’s not going anywhere and it’s better to come to peace with it. What I’ve done is stop playing for the most part and most definitely not spending the $2000-$3000 a year that I was spending on the game anymore. I’m fine with that. I miss playing a hockey video game but the reality is other games like Borderlands 3 are light years more enjoyable. Next year will probably the first year I don’t buy the game period as I would get a refund on this years game if I could.
  • Eldur74 wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    I would just like to see game play be based off the player ratings, period. No extra boosts, ice tilt, or anything like that. If I have a player with a 95 skating speed, he should skate like a 95 speed. If I have a player with a 75 speed, same thing...skate like a 75.

    The 75 rated should not catch the 95 in a foot race which happens all too frequently in this game. Look at the number of videos posted recently and for last years version.

    Biggest suggestion, remove sliders that affect player ratings. I firmly believe that the sliders can 'wash' out the player ratings and give that 'boost' feeling and take away the player separation. The pass accuracy should be player rating based, not a slider. If I put the pass accuracy slider at 20 and have a player with a 75 pass accuracy....technically, his skill drops because of the slider. Same with shot accuracy.

    If this game was based off player ratings I think you would have a 'truer' SIM style game and better player separation. Back in the day there was a game called Superstar Ice Hockey for the Apple IIGs. The game play was based on player ratings and you felt it when you played the game. That is not the case with this game. I'll play as Gretzky in this game and feel like I'm playing as a 2nd line center.

    EA has lost touch with what a sports SIM should be. Somehow, they got Arcade and SIM blurred and confused.

    While I agree with what you're saying in principle, you're losing track of what is important. And I can tell you, it's not the game of hockey, it's not your fun factor, it's not a sim experience or even about who has the best players. It's all about making a game that caters to little Billy so little Billy always feels like he's in the game and just one player away from being competitive. Why is it all about little Billy ? Because little Billy spends tons of money on the game in order to get the higher overall players on his team, because little Billy constantly finds himself in one goal games where he feels like he is truly competitive.

    THAT, is ALL that matters. The irregularities you see during game play are completely irrelevant. A fresh Patrick Kane straight out of the bench going on a breakaway suddenly caught up with by a 64 overall defender ? Check. Why ? Because little Billy needs to feel that he's always in the game so he can shell his (parents) hard earned money to get the better player.

    That is the reason why there is zero skill gap. That is the reason attributes are pretty much meaningless on cards. Because it all gets thrown into the blender when puck drops just so EA can go and get little Billy's money.

    And it's not only in NHL or even only with EA. The practice is spread like a disease in all the card games. The Show used to be the exception but they caved in to the almighty little Billy over there too.

    I've said it before in another post, I'll repeat it again. The RNG during the games is there to stay. The sooner you come to peace with this, the better you'll be (either playing accepting it, or leaving the game altogether). The game is not broken. It is designed that way very much on purpose, and the purpose is to milk as much money from people as possible. Because this is a business, and what matters is the bottom line. Your fun factor does not make the list.

    I don't condone it. But it is what it is and it's not going to change any time soon.

    You are probably spot on. Can't get a confirmation on it, but it sure feels that way.

    Yeah, we will never get a confirmation on it from any game developer. That would be a career suicide. Imagine the devs coming in force and saying "Yes, we spent more money this year on researching what would entice little Billy to spend more money with us than we did improving Franchise and Be A Pro combined and then spent 96% of our development time making sure the mechanics were in place in game to support that".
  • The best was when a Madden dev admitted that’s how Madden works a few years ago on their forums and then retracted his post. Wish I took a screen shot. Someone out there must remember this or has proof. Was funny anyway.
  • headup81 wrote: »
    rogers2487 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    The fact that a game developer was here and commented on the issue by denying DDA/Tilt but did not try to collect more information about some eventual bug tells it all i think. He perfectly knows the mechanics behind the issues we are experiencing but act like it´s in our heads.

    They screwed up by denying momentum too. Obviously it’s tied to DDA but they could have lied and said it’s part of recreation of realistic hockey or something but no they chose to lie about one the most in your face aspects of the game. Bad move.

    Why do you think they're lying? There is no evidence whatsoever that it actually exists. If there were factual evidence and they kept saying it's not real, that would be one thing, but you're making an assumption based heavily on confirmation bias and a lack of accountability. I hear people comment frequently in EASHL games when something happens they don't like. They blame the ice tilt when it's so clear to see the series of events that lead up to it or they conveniently blame the game when a goalie makes a great save or their shot misses the net. There is 0 accountability by people that blame DDA/ice tilt. ZERO. The sad thing is, people would get a lot better at this game if they looked at their mistakes and learned from them. Which is what pro players have done and why they consistently are top performers.

    Except that alot of aspects of the game are not user controlled, the user has minimal control over weither a shot hits the net or goes wide, it's just a random occurance and the best a user can do is control the cone and attributes and RNG do the rest. Same with getting possession of a loose puck or intercepting a pass, best we can do is skate over or near a puck and the randomness controls the rest, either you pick the puck up or overstate it, not the users fault if its an overstate, just "the game" screwing you. Same with bobbled passes and deaks, you can press all the right buttons and have perfect timing but if the randomness wants you to lose the puck you will through no fault of your own

    And that randomness is there for that exact reason. To give players an illusion on success. You don’t lose every face off for 2 periods then magically start winning them in the 3rd. Ea makes this type of possible with RNG

    Have to love the fact you do all the right things on a draw, have a hired skilled players and cannot win draws against the computer AI, especially in the offensive zone. The only level playing field is playing against a human controlled player.

    Second to that, has anyone ever won a tie up draw? Its the most common way I find the computer AI beats me at face offs and for years the opposing AI rushes to the loose puck off the draw and I'm lost watching my own players stand and watch, never moving. Best part is since you are still close to the puck, you cannot switch players and once you do, puck is long gone and so is any chance of possession
  • Eldur74 wrote: »
    I've said it before in another post, I'll repeat it again. The RNG during the games is there to stay. The sooner you come to peace with this, the better you'll be (either playing accepting it, or leaving the game altogether). The game is not broken. It is designed that way very much on purpose, and the purpose is to milk as much money from people as possible. Because this is a business, and what matters is the bottom line. Your fun factor does not make the list.

    I don't condone it. But it is what it is and it's not going to change any time soon.

    I think you are 100% right. Seems like there's just too much money to be made, for this to ever change.
    Of course we can stop buying the game and stay away from HUT, but it would take something the size of the Battlefront II fiasco to change anything.
    From what I can see in these forums the sentiment is "I hate the game, but it's the only <Insert Sport> game out there, it is what it is". That's not how you create a player storm :smile:

    The next hope is that the authorities forbid lootboxes (best case), or at least put some regulations on this huge market, that is totally out of control. As of now, that does not seem very likely.

    So we're left with coming here and/or reddit, twitter and such, to voice our opinions. Please keep it up!
  • Done with HUT.

    After taking a couple days off to compose myself and rejoin the game with a clear head, I hopped into SB and used my stacked roster (which is only an 83 now?). Played the 71 overall team and won 8-1 on superstar. Game felt absolutely awful. My guys could shoot and pass but this was Nike sparq parachute skating 2.0.

    Next game playing the 87. What do you know the game plays 100mph. I turned it off.

    Absolutely done with this inconsistent trash mode.
  • EA_Roger
    1483 posts EA Community Manager
    headup81 wrote: »
    The best was when a Madden dev admitted that’s how Madden works a few years ago on their forums and then retracted his post. Wish I took a screen shot. Someone out there must remember this or has proof. Was funny anyway.

    I touched base on this last year with you, this isn't true and if it were I would be aware of it. Not only that there would be proof of it somewhere, you can bet that players would have screenshot that in a heartbeat, it would on Reddit, YouTube & Twitter.
  • The fact that a game developer was here and commented on the issue by denying DDA/Tilt but did not try to collect more information about some eventual bug tells it all i think. He perfectly knows the mechanics behind the issues we are experiencing but act like it´s in our heads.

    Agreed. In the end it doesn't really matter what it's called or is it there deliberately or not. What matters is that currently it is driving us insane and something should be done to it. The need for this kind of mega thread alone is a proof of how widespread the problem is. It's been there for years, but this year it's just incredibly obvious and totally ruining the game. What I'd like to hear from EA is that they hear us, try to address the problem and do something about it. Complete denial is just sad.
  • Z0mbieBabyJesus
    1532 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Done with HUT.

    After taking a couple days off to compose myself and rejoin the game with a clear head, I hopped into SB and used my stacked roster (which is only an 83 now?). Played the 71 overall team and won 8-1 on superstar. Game felt absolutely awful. My guys could shoot and pass but this was Nike sparq parachute skating 2.0.

    Next game playing the 87. What do you know the game plays 100mph. I turned it off.

    Absolutely done with this inconsistent trash mode.

    I'm still playing, but the 70 to 79 rated ai teams are consistently the hardest to beat.

    The worst is when they stack their forwards and defense and toss 2 bronze goalies in. Keeps the ovr low so the already good players play even better than normal. Somehow the bronze goalies are standing on their heads.

    I still win, but I despise playing low ovr teams now. Just frustrating when it's harder simply because of their low ovr.

    I've been using my 89 over team for playing VS 80+ teams, and an 82 ovr for any teams I see under 80. That helps, but it's still harder than it should be.
  • Torspo100 wrote: »
    The fact that a game developer was here and commented on the issue by denying DDA/Tilt but did not try to collect more information about some eventual bug tells it all i think. He perfectly knows the mechanics behind the issues we are experiencing but act like it´s in our heads.

    Agreed. In the end it doesn't really matter what it's called or is it there deliberately or not. What matters is that currently it is driving us insane and something should be done to it. The need for this kind of mega thread alone is a proof of how widespread the problem is. It's been there for years, but this year it's just incredibly obvious and totally ruining the game. What I'd like to hear from EA is that they hear us, try to address the problem and do something about it. Complete denial is just sad.

    Like you said, it doesn't matter what it's called, but something is happening that isn't right. However, the sad part is that through the years, the community has posted video after video of these things happening and it all goes quiet. The amazing rebounds that always go to the AI in front of the net, or the AI being pinned against the backboards but can make an amazing tape to tape fast pass to an open AI player in front of the net, to the AI being checked to the ice but bouncing back up and retaining puck possession.

    Those are just a tad of the things I've seen in videos and experienced. It happens every year and EA remains silent even though the videos are there. That is what I think frustrates everyone the most. Here's the bug/evidence/tilt/momentum or whatever, and it's hushed by EA.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Steven5470 wrote: »

    Like you said, it doesn't matter what it's called, but something is happening that isn't right. However, the sad part is that through the years, the community has posted video after video of these things happening and it all goes quiet. The amazing rebounds that always go to the AI in front of the net, or the AI being pinned against the backboards but can make an amazing tape to tape fast pass to an open AI player in front of the net, to the AI being checked to the ice but bouncing back up and retaining puck possession.

    Those are just a tad of the things I've seen in videos and experienced. It happens every year and EA remains silent even though the videos are there. That is what I think frustrates everyone the most. Here's the bug/evidence/tilt/momentum or whatever, and it's hushed by EA.

    EA doesn't remain silent. They literally tell us ever year it's not real yet people refuse to take accountability for their own play. You should post a video of an entire game and point out where the ice tilt kicks in. Then you'll see how your own actions led up to what you think is the game scripting your win so it keeps you interested in playing.
  • Steven5470
    355 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »

    Like you said, it doesn't matter what it's called, but something is happening that isn't right. However, the sad part is that through the years, the community has posted video after video of these things happening and it all goes quiet. The amazing rebounds that always go to the AI in front of the net, or the AI being pinned against the backboards but can make an amazing tape to tape fast pass to an open AI player in front of the net, to the AI being checked to the ice but bouncing back up and retaining puck possession.

    Those are just a tad of the things I've seen in videos and experienced. It happens every year and EA remains silent even though the videos are there. That is what I think frustrates everyone the most. Here's the bug/evidence/tilt/momentum or whatever, and it's hushed by EA.

    EA doesn't remain silent. They literally tell us ever year it's not real yet people refuse to take accountability for their own play. You should post a video of an entire game and point out where the ice tilt kicks in. Then you'll see how your own actions led up to what you think is the game scripting your win so it keeps you interested in playing.

    You mean the videos that have already been posted by the community year after year with these issues? I don't think my pinning a player against the back boards and him magically making a tape to tape fast pass to the front of the net to his AI teammate is an action I'm creating. Or when you check the AI and they bounce back up to regain possession of the puck. Maybe I created that with my action of checking him??
    Or when a 75 speed AI defender can catch a 85 speed offensive player on a breakaway, who already has a good distance? Look a the videos that have been posted already year after year.

    And I never called it Ice Tilt. I mentioned something is happening that shouldn't be.
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