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NHL 20 Patch Details April 3rd

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Check out our April 3rd patch details here.

Another (very brief) poke check thread.

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There were approx 195 poke checks in the first period of the Leafs/Wild game tonight. I counted. No tripping penalties.

It's a part of the game. Just saying.

I guess R1 does nothing now.

Replies

  • Lol I broke the R1 trying to poke the puck off a players stick because this year the offense retention is way op
  • You mean the joke check button? It's called the joke check because pay attention if you touch it a few times, you can actually see your opponent rolling around on the ice in laughter.
  • That's EA for you. Rather than fix the rampart poke checking in 18 by balancing poke trips, misses, and successes, they "fixed" it by ramping up the penalties so much you're now forced with making a poke at the most opportune time. Thing is, that opportune time can still lead to a penalty. There's just no...balance.
  • You assume that EA watches actual NHL hockey lol.
  • This is absolute the NUMBER ONE REASON why I DON’T OWN NHL 20 after buying it every year since 1993. Played the 20 beta and nothing has changed from 19. TripFest the entire game, on both sides. I’m still in disbelief that this was the solution to poke spamming. EA pissed me off bad enough with 19 that I’m skipping Madden too for the first time in many years. I love hockey watch it as much as I can And I see hundreds of poke checks in the game and very little tripping penalties, as least stick on skate trips. The poke is a penalty button. Best defense is to just get into someone’s way and make incidental contact.
    This game has so many flaws that haven’t been fixed in years, shows EA doesn’t care at all.
  • My problem right now is that everyone uses LT.. makes poke checking useless. Seems like many people are just saying screw it and if you can’t beat them join them. Those who don’t spam I ’s not difficult to make connect with a poke check, but 50% of the time they get it back right away when I know for a fact my awareness and hand eye is higher
  • xBr_ssM_gnetx
    32 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    It's almost equivalent to... no-touch football? Maybe not the greatest analogy. But it doesn't feel like a real hockey game when there are zero poke checks in a period because we're so afraid to press the button.

    For all the condensed labour that goes into producing this thing... it just feels lazy/cheap to continuously put out a product that feels incomplete or full of bugs that have existed for literally half a decade.

    The push-back of "not enough labour/coders" doesn't hold up. Especially when you're forced to watch a scene of a helicopter on a glacier on repeat. You had time for that but many of the basic rules of the sport are dysfunctional and have been for years? Did they put a helicopter in there to just tick people off? I digress. I'll try again in '22. Over it.

    [Socair - edited swear filter]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • Online, this game is a complete mess, a joke and an insult. I truly despise it and I guess I am done buying it. As long as this is considered "hockey" by this studio, I will consider it a no-buy.
  • de4c0n_fr05t
    436 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    The poke check changed in NHL18, as a part of their Defensive Stick System.

    2 major things, where the poke aims, and the control.

    Control: You can now press and hold the poke button and your stick will stay in the poke position, and you can control your stick. This addition is not the problem, I don't mind this even though I don't utilize it much.

    The problem is where the poke AIMS. In earlier games, NHL17 and prior, your poke check was aimed where your player was facing.. I.E. where your left stick was pointing. This worked fine, everyone was used to it and poke check penalties weren't a problem.

    NOW the poke check aims for the puck everytime by default, and if the puck is moving the stick will follow. This is why there's so many penalties in my opinion. Yes you can control it with your right stick, but it's not easy especially when you want to do a quick poke.

    This needs to change back. Keep the control aspect, but set the default poke aim back to left stick.

    Edit to get @NHLDev to weigh in.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    The poke check changed in NHL18, as a part of their Defensive Stick System.

    2 major things, where the poke aims, and the control.

    Control: You can now press and hold the poke button and your stick will stay in the poke position, and you can control your stick. This addition is not the problem, I don't mind this even though I don't utilize it much.

    The problem is where the poke AIMS. In earlier games, NHL17 and prior, your poke check was aimed where your player was facing.. I.E. where your left stick was pointing. This worked fine, everyone was used to it and poke check penalties weren't a problem.

    NOW the poke check aims for the puck everytime by default, and if the puck is moving the stick will follow. This is why there's so many penalties in my opinion. Yes you can control it with your right stick, but it's not easy especially when you want to do a quick poke.

    This needs to change back. Keep the control aspect, but set the default poke aim back to left stick.

    Edit to get @NHLDev to weigh in.

    The pokecheck always aimed at the puck. It actually did more of what you are saying it does now before (pre DSS days). It would follow the pucks change in movement even after you initiated a poke. This would help players with bad timing and would hurt players with good timing.

    For example, in the past if a player had the puck out exposed and you poked and in that time, the puck carrier pulled the puck over to the other side, the poke would try and 'help' and follow the puck but in turn may have gone through the puck carriers legs rather than just poking out into the open space missing where the puck 'was'.

    We made the change now to poke to where the puck will be in the future based on what we know only at the time the defensive player presses poke. So if it is sitting here and you press poke and in that time, it moves, you will just poke to the open space it once vacated.

    So you are rewarded now for knowing what the puck is currently doing and poking at the right time much more than in the past.

    There is more attribute impact though for player variation on error on the poke based on relative angle to your player (front being best and behind being worst) and relative speed of the puck (the lower the relative speed, the easier it is to hit)
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    The poke check changed in NHL18, as a part of their Defensive Stick System.

    2 major things, where the poke aims, and the control.

    Control: You can now press and hold the poke button and your stick will stay in the poke position, and you can control your stick. This addition is not the problem, I don't mind this even though I don't utilize it much.

    The problem is where the poke AIMS. In earlier games, NHL17 and prior, your poke check was aimed where your player was facing.. I.E. where your left stick was pointing. This worked fine, everyone was used to it and poke check penalties weren't a problem.

    NOW the poke check aims for the puck everytime by default, and if the puck is moving the stick will follow. This is why there's so many penalties in my opinion. Yes you can control it with your right stick, but it's not easy especially when you want to do a quick poke.

    This needs to change back. Keep the control aspect, but set the default poke aim back to left stick.

    Edit to get @NHLDev to weigh in.

    The pokecheck always aimed at the puck. It actually did more of what you are saying it does now before (pre DSS days). It would follow the pucks change in movement even after you initiated a poke. This would help players with bad timing and would hurt players with good timing.

    For example, in the past if a player had the puck out exposed and you poked and in that time, the puck carrier pulled the puck over to the other side, the poke would try and 'help' and follow the puck but in turn may have gone through the puck carriers legs rather than just poking out into the open space missing where the puck 'was'.

    We made the change now to poke to where the puck will be in the future based on what we know only at the time the defensive player presses poke. So if it is sitting here and you press poke and in that time, it moves, you will just poke to the open space it once vacated.

    So you are rewarded now for knowing what the puck is currently doing and poking at the right time much more than in the past.

    There is more attribute impact though for player variation on error on the poke based on relative angle to your player (front being best and behind being worst) and relative speed of the puck (the lower the relative speed, the easier it is to hit)

    Interesting.

    It surely doesn't seem like it. I still play NHL15 on PS3 OTP and poke checks poke EXACTLY where i'm facing. In 19/20 I can face away from the puck and the stick will be like a magnet to the puck.

    Whatever change was made from 17 to 18 it needs to be reversed or revisited, because the current formula isn't good.

    Thanks for weighing in as always :)
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    Interesting.

    It surely doesn't seem like it. I still play NHL15 on PS3 OTP and poke checks poke EXACTLY where i'm facing. In 19/20 I can face away from the puck and the stick will be like a magnet to the puck.

    Whatever change was made from 17 to 18 it needs to be reversed or revisited, because the current formula isn't good.

    Thanks for weighing in as always :)

    That is a unique scenario to be facing away from the puck and wanting to poke but not at the puck. It is possible that in that year and prior, we had less overage to poke behind you.

    We have had tuning where once you are a certain distance from the puck we just poke out in front rather than towards the puck. It is possible that was tuned different then.

    I was referring to situations when the puck is in your front pie and what the logic is for aiming the pokecheck towards the puck.

    Do you have a context for when you want to be facing away from the puck and poking in front of yourself? I can maybe better understand the scenario if you have a hockey context for it.

    Also, we did make the change in the early patch last year to make sure if you press your right stick first before pressing poke, that it will poke directly to that direction. So if you do have a time you want to poke somewhere other than towards the puck, you can use the RS to pick that angle.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Interesting.

    It surely doesn't seem like it. I still play NHL15 on PS3 OTP and poke checks poke EXACTLY where i'm facing. In 19/20 I can face away from the puck and the stick will be like a magnet to the puck.

    Whatever change was made from 17 to 18 it needs to be reversed or revisited, because the current formula isn't good.

    Thanks for weighing in as always :)

    That is a unique scenario to be facing away from the puck and wanting to poke but not at the puck. It is possible that in that year and prior, we had less overage to poke behind you.

    We have had tuning where once you are a certain distance from the puck we just poke out in front rather than towards the puck. It is possible that was tuned different then.

    I was referring to situations when the puck is in your front pie and what the logic is for aiming the pokecheck towards the puck.

    Do you have a context for when you want to be facing away from the puck and poking in front of yourself? I can maybe better understand the scenario if you have a hockey context for it.

    Also, we did make the change in the early patch last year to make sure if you press your right stick first before pressing poke, that it will poke directly to that direction. So if you do have a time you want to poke somewhere other than towards the puck, you can use the RS to pick that angle.

    That's a good change, but will take a lot of getting used to, much like the new controller layout. Would there be a way to let us use the old control layout? (2017) I miss having hip check R3, and chop R1/RB + Right Stick flick. And the goalie controls were changed for no good reason from what I can see, their old controller layout was better.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    That's a good change, but will take a lot of getting used to, much like the new controller layout. Would there be a way to let us use the old control layout? (2017) I miss having hip check R3, and chop R1/RB + Right Stick flick. And the goalie controls were changed for no good reason from what I can see, their old controller layout was better.

    There is always a lot of thought that goes into our controller changes and there is always a strong reason for needing to do it.

    For the goalies, we offer the original controls by setting it to alternate. We have groups of goalies on both sides using default or alternate as their controls.

    Adding defensive skill stick was the main reason we moved chop. Also, having chop on R1 in the past meant that pokes were delayed to action on the release of the button (waiting to see if you were going to release or continue to hold and flick the RS for a chop) and with the change we made when adding DSS, it could go back to being on the press, making it more responsive again and as such a base tool, this was a big win.

    We then obviously had to find a home for chops and decided to move hipcheck as we found chop was used more often and needed to be more accessible. It was also better in the long run to unify the controls so that if we wanted to make further advancements with the DSS to include different pokes and chops from extended positions, it could be the same on both loose and possessed pucks.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    The poke check changed in NHL18, as a part of their Defensive Stick System.

    2 major things, where the poke aims, and the control.

    Control: You can now press and hold the poke button and your stick will stay in the poke position, and you can control your stick. This addition is not the problem, I don't mind this even though I don't utilize it much.

    The problem is where the poke AIMS. In earlier games, NHL17 and prior, your poke check was aimed where your player was facing.. I.E. where your left stick was pointing. This worked fine, everyone was used to it and poke check penalties weren't a problem.

    NOW the poke check aims for the puck everytime by default, and if the puck is moving the stick will follow. This is why there's so many penalties in my opinion. Yes you can control it with your right stick, but it's not easy especially when you want to do a quick poke.

    This needs to change back. Keep the control aspect, but set the default poke aim back to left stick.

    Edit to get @NHLDev to weigh in.

    The pokecheck always aimed at the puck. It actually did more of what you are saying it does now before (pre DSS days). It would follow the pucks change in movement even after you initiated a poke. This would help players with bad timing and would hurt players with good timing.

    For example, in the past if a player had the puck out exposed and you poked and in that time, the puck carrier pulled the puck over to the other side, the poke would try and 'help' and follow the puck but in turn may have gone through the puck carriers legs rather than just poking out into the open space missing where the puck 'was'.

    We made the change now to poke to where the puck will be in the future based on what we know only at the time the defensive player presses poke. So if it is sitting here and you press poke and in that time, it moves, you will just poke to the open space it once vacated.

    So you are rewarded now for knowing what the puck is currently doing and poking at the right time much more than in the past.

    There is more attribute impact though for player variation on error on the poke based on relative angle to your player (front being best and behind being worst) and relative speed of the puck (the lower the relative speed, the easier it is to hit)

    Is this any different if you do an R3 pokecheck from DSS vs the straight up R1 poke? I would think from R3 there is no assistance and the poke goes purely to where you were aiming with no assistance.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    That's a good change, but will take a lot of getting used to, much like the new controller layout. Would there be a way to let us use the old control layout? (2017) I miss having hip check R3, and chop R1/RB + Right Stick flick. And the goalie controls were changed for no good reason from what I can see, their old controller layout was better.

    There is always a lot of thought that goes into our controller changes and there is always a strong reason for needing to do it.

    For the goalies, we offer the original controls by setting it to alternate. We have groups of goalies on both sides using default or alternate as their controls.

    Adding defensive skill stick was the main reason we moved chop. Also, having chop on R1 in the past meant that pokes were delayed to action on the release of the button (waiting to see if you were going to release or continue to hold and flick the RS for a chop) and with the change we made when adding DSS, it could go back to being on the press, making it more responsive again and as such a base tool, this was a big win.

    We then obviously had to find a home for chops and decided to move hipcheck as we found chop was used more often and needed to be more accessible. It was also better in the long run to unify the controls so that if we wanted to make further advancements with the DSS to include different pokes and chops from extended positions, it could be the same on both loose and possessed pucks.

    Alternate is not FULL original goalie controls.. some are (LT/L2 butterfly) but some are not (RB/R1 + RS down is not the spread V save anymore). The new layout is not better (I used to exclusively play goalie last gen, I can't stand it anymore), and since the goalies are not affected by the DSS it would be cool to have the option to use the full old controls.

    I understand why you moved chop and hip check, I just wish I could have an option to go back and use the old controls. I only need the basics, I don't need 6 different ways to chop or poke check. I mean you still have 94 controls as an option! That should mean you COULD bring back 17 controls as an option, right? :)

    Speaking of 94, having the original 94 game as like a side game playable online would be super cool! (yes, I'm old) lol
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    Alternate is not FULL original goalie controls.. some are (LT/L2 butterfly) but some are not (RB/R1 + RS down is not the spread V save anymore). The new layout is not better (I used to exclusively play goalie last gen, I can't stand it anymore), and since the goalies are not affected by the DSS it would be cool to have the option to use the full old controls.

    I understand why you moved chop and hip check, I just wish I could have an option to go back and use the old controls. I only need the basics, I don't need 6 different ways to chop or poke check. I mean you still have 94 controls as an option! That should mean you COULD bring back 17 controls as an option, right? :)

    Speaking of 94, having the original 94 game as like a side game playable online would be super cool! (yes, I'm old) lol
    Do you have other examples or is it just spread v?

    We have had other thoughts/plans to unify the right stick to be able to blend more seamlessly with the butterfly slides with full analog control where spread v would be in the bottom of the right stick and would then be how much you extend to your side vs back towards posts and ability to blend from one to the other (as you roll or change your RS angle) as a shooter dekes back against your momentum, with different abilities depending on how soon you respond. That is why we haven't moved it back to a different modifier but I understand until you get a change like that, it doesn't help you. I just hadn't heard from anyone else that pressing X was an issue in the current scheme, even from original goalies using those controls.
  • de4c0n_fr05t
    436 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Alternate is not FULL original goalie controls.. some are (LT/L2 butterfly) but some are not (RB/R1 + RS down is not the spread V save anymore). The new layout is not better (I used to exclusively play goalie last gen, I can't stand it anymore), and since the goalies are not affected by the DSS it would be cool to have the option to use the full old controls.

    I understand why you moved chop and hip check, I just wish I could have an option to go back and use the old controls. I only need the basics, I don't need 6 different ways to chop or poke check. I mean you still have 94 controls as an option! That should mean you COULD bring back 17 controls as an option, right? :)

    Speaking of 94, having the original 94 game as like a side game playable online would be super cool! (yes, I'm old) lol
    Do you have other examples or is it just spread v?

    We have had other thoughts/plans to unify the right stick to be able to blend more seamlessly with the butterfly slides with full analog control where spread v would be in the bottom of the right stick and would then be how much you extend to your side vs back towards posts and ability to blend from one to the other (as you roll or change your RS angle) as a shooter dekes back against your momentum, with different abilities depending on how soon you respond. That is why we haven't moved it back to a different modifier but I understand until you get a change like that, it doesn't help you. I just hadn't heard from anyone else that pressing X was an issue in the current scheme, even from original goalies using those controls.

    Spread V is the main one I used that was different. The current control for the Spread V makes you unable to use it while moving side to side, the goalie will just do the desperation save instead. There are a few more save controls that are different, when I get home tonight I'll jump on the old game and list them for you.

    Unifying the Right Stick to blend into butterfly sides/spread V would be amazing, yes definitely explore that.

    The other major difference for goalies (and I think we've discussed this before) is hugging the post. Previously, to hug and release from the post was as simple as pressing and releasing the button. Now you must press the button a second time to release from the post. This makes the goalie slower when there's a pass out front or a scramble. I don't really remember your reason for changing it, something to do with how your goalie comes off the post? The speed and fluidity of just pressing and releasing for post hugging feels way better and is much quicker IMO.
  • Watch this:

    It was a game changer. Especially the real life advice from the hockey player. Positioning your man then putting then dss where you want it to be. Helped me lots on defence. Changing my CR to 491 to now a modest 579
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    Spread V is the main one I used that was different. The current control for the Spread V makes you unable to use it while moving side to side, the goalie will just do the desperation save instead. There are a few more save controls that are different, when I get home tonight I'll jump on the old game and list them for you.

    Unifying the Right Stick to blend into butterfly sides/spread V would be amazing, yes definitely explore that.

    The other major difference for goalies (and I think we've discussed this before) is hugging the post. Previously, to hug and release from the post was as simple as pressing and releasing the button. Now you must press the button a second time to release from the post. This makes the goalie slower when there's a pass out front or a scramble. I don't really remember your reason for changing it, something to do with how your goalie comes off the post? The speed and fluidity of just pressing and releasing for post hugging feels way better and is much quicker IMO.

    When it was like that, the goalie would always come off the post to the same position and then you would have to move to where you wanted. So now, you come off the post with whatever direction or move you want.

    For example, if a puck carrier is skating out from below the goal line and circling around out around the near side faceoff dot becoming more of a threat to score, you may want to come off the post to go out and further challenge out short side. In the past, you would come off the post towards the middle when you let go of hug post and they could possibly shoot it short side before you could take the step out to challenge.
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