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NHL 20 Patch Details January 30th


Check out our January 30th patch details here.

This game is SO bad

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GramerProfesur
452 posts Member
edited September 2019
Goalies can’t stop any shot from any angle, defense has no tools to work with whatsoever and get beat on every play, AI still screws you and scores on their own net, puck control is through the roof, one handed tuck works EVERY time, still get stuck in lobbies with people who are dbags and we don’t have a griefing button, etc etc

How are these issues STILL in the game?? Not to mention the same bugs from 19 are here. Can hack someone in threes after the whistle and the faceoff is in the opposite zone, basically just gave yourself a free o-zone faceoff. Then simply win every faceoff with NHL 94 controls! Rinse and repeat

This is an embarrassment of a game. You all should be ashamed, honestly if it wasn’t for offline and how I make my own rosters I’d be done with this crap. It’s ridiculously bad

Replies

  • GramerProfesur
    452 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Yes this pushes me over the edge. HOW IS THIS STILL HAPPENING @NHLDev?

  • WainGretSki
    3496 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    Saddens me to say, there isn't much to argue your post. I just love hockey. It is literally a passion and an incredible sport. This game is nothing more than a perverted representation of the sport. These people whining that they can't be a one man show and dangle everywhere instead of passing like you're supposed to do in this sport, and EA caves in.
    Every.
    Single.
    Time.

    Well, I'm glad to see they tuned the game for the 150 people crying they can't score on almost every shot on net. Good job.
    Post edited by WainGretSki on
  • Agree, I'm going to give it at least 100 games... but so far it just isn't fun. They took away any reason to puck control and set up in the offensive zone. It's just full speed fast break with nothing your defenders can do to stop it. I played a guy in the top 200 and the score ended 13-7. The fact I scored 7 goals on him is the surprising part. It was goal after goal and just simple shots that would be stopped in 18/19. Not sure why they made that change.
  • This is so stupid. Just played 1 game today. 8-7 final. Absolutely no realistic hockey at all. He just picked a fast guy and skated through every poke check, body check, took a shot and scored. Defense is completely useless and goalies are so bad. I have no clue why they changed up what made 19 so great. Might have to go back to 19 if it continues because there is nothing fun about this full speed, no defense, no need to pass the puck hockey. :(
  • I honestly don't even care anymore. I gameshare with a buddy and this year was his year to buy. I've played a few EASHL games, but the same issues keep happening year after year, and even now this crap with the pass interceptions and how they automatically glue to the nearest stick regardless if the player is facing the puck.

    I've always played NHL games, but at this point I find myself quite indifferent to it.
  • When will enough be enough before Devs actually show true innovation? NHL2k10 still to this day has more innovation than EA's poor attempt at NHL 20. They are 10 years apart and yet it shows they do not care as they have no competition. I play offline mode only and the AI on the opposing team along with mechanics and gameplay is worse then online is, not to mention every year it keeps getting worse. I am still waiting for Devs to answer my questions as they always say "give us feedback so we can improve".
  • This is so stupid. Just played 1 game today. 8-7 final. Absolutely no realistic hockey at all. He just picked a fast guy and skated through every poke check, body check, took a shot and scored. Defense is completely useless and goalies are so bad. I have no clue why they changed up what made 19 so great. Might have to go back to 19 if it continues because there is nothing fun about this full speed, no defense, no need to pass the puck hockey. :(

    But according to EA it's in a good place ,ask yourself a good place for whom , what's more sad about 20 it can actually be a very good game if they just had a balance between offense and defense because clearly the offense is way more op this year than in any year I can recall
  • Steven5470
    282 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    This is so stupid. Just played 1 game today. 8-7 final. Absolutely no realistic hockey at all. He just picked a fast guy and skated through every poke check, body check, took a shot and scored. Defense is completely useless and goalies are so bad. I have no clue why they changed up what made 19 so great. Might have to go back to 19 if it continues because there is nothing fun about this full speed, no defense, no need to pass the puck hockey. :(

    But according to EA it's in a good place ,ask yourself a good place for whom , what's more sad about 20 it can actually be a very good game if they just had a balance between offense and defense because clearly the offense is way more op this year than in any year I can recall

    That was a jaw dropper when EA said that. But I guess that's okay per EA, which doesn't say much about the company when a game this bad is "in a good place" by their "standards". But we shouldn't be surprised. EA has been downhill with quality and lack of commitment to sport of hockey for several years now.
  • Meh, what can you do. It's as if EA has been trying to condition us over the years that defense and goaltending is bad and shouldn't be part of the game. Seems this year they dropped the bomb and made it official.

    Funny thing is, when you complain that poke checking is unrealistic, you get explained how to do it, that there are "realistic physics and mechanics" behind it, and essentially, to get good. You complain it's too hard and unrealistic and you get told there's a skill gap and certain players can keep their GAA under 1 per game.

    You explain that playing goalie is hard, clunky and boring, extremely unrewarding, you get told that it should be hard, get good, and well, sometimes you gotta get sniped.

    You complain that defense actually plays the game, that you get bumped off the puck when you refuse to pass it, game gets completely changed and adapted to the people that can't score.

    Somehow, I get it. EA wants a fast paced north-south game. Forwards want to get to the net with the least amount of complications. That is why you never see anyone form EA explaining that setting up goals is a process, requires practice and that you need to fight and find space on the ice. They never say to pass the puck or "git gud" when forwards complain they get knocked off the puck. When they heard dekes were too hard to pull off on old gen, they made it super simple for this gen. They constantly cater to forwards and funny thing is, by doing so, sales are not improving. The game isn't growing.

    That's what they want, fine. Just don't call it NHL hockey and don't expect me to buy it. Maybe call it Deke 'N Shoot Hockey.
  • I couldnt agree with this post more. Poke check penalties need to go, one hand tuck needs to go.
  • Meh, what can you do. It's as if EA has been trying to condition us over the years that defense and goaltending is bad and shouldn't be part of the game. Seems this year they dropped the bomb and made it official.

    Funny thing is, when you complain that poke checking is unrealistic, you get explained how to do it, that there are "realistic physics and mechanics" behind it, and essentially, to get good. You complain it's too hard and unrealistic and you get told there's a skill gap and certain players can keep their GAA under 1 per game.

    You explain that playing goalie is hard, clunky and boring, extremely unrewarding, you get told that it should be hard, get good, and well, sometimes you gotta get sniped.

    You complain that defense actually plays the game, that you get bumped off the puck when you refuse to pass it, game gets completely changed and adapted to the people that can't score.

    Somehow, I get it. EA wants a fast paced north-south game. Forwards want to get to the net with the least amount of complications. That is why you never see anyone form EA explaining that setting up goals is a process, requires practice and that you need to fight and find space on the ice. They never say to pass the puck or "git gud" when forwards complain they get knocked off the puck. When they heard dekes were too hard to pull off on old gen, they made it super simple for this gen. They constantly cater to forwards and funny thing is, by doing so, sales are not improving. The game isn't growing.

    That's what they want, fine. Just don't call it NHL hockey and don't expect me to buy it. Maybe call it Deke 'N Shoot Hockey.

    Maybe just Deke' N Shoot.
  • NHLDev
    1453 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    Meh, what can you do. It's as if EA has been trying to condition us over the years that defense and goaltending is bad and shouldn't be part of the game. Seems this year they dropped the bomb and made it official.

    Funny thing is, when you complain that poke checking is unrealistic, you get explained how to do it, that there are "realistic physics and mechanics" behind it, and essentially, to get good. You complain it's too hard and unrealistic and you get told there's a skill gap and certain players can keep their GAA under 1 per game.

    You explain that playing goalie is hard, clunky and boring, extremely unrewarding, you get told that it should be hard, get good, and well, sometimes you gotta get sniped.

    You complain that defense actually plays the game, that you get bumped off the puck when you refuse to pass it, game gets completely changed and adapted to the people that can't score.

    Somehow, I get it. EA wants a fast paced north-south game. Forwards want to get to the net with the least amount of complications. That is why you never see anyone form EA explaining that setting up goals is a process, requires practice and that you need to fight and find space on the ice. They never say to pass the puck or "git gud" when forwards complain they get knocked off the puck. When they heard dekes were too hard to pull off on old gen, they made it super simple for this gen. They constantly cater to forwards and funny thing is, by doing so, sales are not improving. The game isn't growing.

    That's what they want, fine. Just don't call it NHL hockey and don't expect me to buy it. Maybe call it Deke 'N Shoot Hockey.

    When it comes to direction for the game, I do want to shed the other perspective since you have been in a number of these threads over the years and should know that my perspective is more balanced than what you describe above.

    There are lots of pieces in these below threads where I discuss pieces without bias one way or the other towards offense or defense and am simply looking to make a balanced game. You will see me talk about the skill gap that exists on both sides of the puck telling people how they can improve from both sides. I cover using defensive tools and try to help players improve at using them due to us not wanting to reward bad positioning and timing but also defend how good positioning alone and incidental contact/puck loss is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking, also telling the offense to do a better job of moving the puck and keeping possession.

    You will also see me talk about how we reverted the changes last year where we originally tuned to lower the bumps from behind because even if a bit over the top, we wanted to reward moving the puck and team play as opposed to solo puck carriers. That mindset is the same today and we are still trying to track down why PS4 can feel different at low relative speeds so that if anything it would play like Xbox, not the other way around.

    There are also a lot of discussions you may just not see where I am taking the defensive side of balance when speaking to some competitive 6's players that feel that shot accuracy on builds should be higher or that traits shouldn't take away from shot accuracy and that smaller builds should have more balance.

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/233697/and-just-like-that-the-optimism-faded/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/235507/what-do-devs-consider-skill/p7

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238328/beta-tuner-rollback-update-current-gameplay-feedback-survey/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/237011/an-update-on-gameplay-feedback-action-plan/p18

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/241448/ive-asked-this-before-ea-and-got-no-response-so-trying-again

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238129/gameplay-question-for-nhl-dev/p1


    And if you don't want to dig through right now, a couple quick examples I picked below.

    First one is of a response form me last year when people were complaining about getting bumped off the puck and incidental contact puck loss:

    “In general, players limiting the relative speed and doing a good job protecting the puck still have a lot of success protecting the puck. I would bet it is actually incidental contact causing the puck loss but would need to see the videos to be sure. We did tune limb tensions to what we intended between the beta and final and we also improved consistency of the physics reactions.

    Overall, it is in a fairly good spot but I do know that some players wish they were keeping the puck easier. That said, people complain about puck control when it is too high and when the hitting feels like there are bubbles as well, so having more flush contact where puck control is disrupted but able to be picked up again is often more realistic in some of those lower speed collisions where players are able to use their body. It encourages players to get to more space, move the puck and be more aware of the subtle nature of protecting the puck and/or keeping yourself between the defense and any loose puck that can occur eve if you are going to lose it.”


    Example of how we want to encourage good team based gameplay and passing. That we don’t side with players feeling that they don't have the ability to keep the puck on offense:

    "We have spoken about this before and the consensus from most was that incidental contact was a great thing for the game that players wouldn't want to see taken away. However, this only comes into play when players get in tight to individual players to beat them 1 on 1 with the puck or try to do too much as an individual through a crowd of players. That is where a good team based game and passing come into play. The puck carrier also gets to drive and the defense has to react so if you allow a defender to angle you out and tighten a gap where you lose the puck to incidental contact, you haven't made the right choices. If it is multiple players that are able to close off the puck carrier, then there must be some players open to pass to."
  • Definitely appreciate the feedback @NHLDev but what are your thoughts on the LT abuse that is literally ruining this game?

    And if it was addressed in one of the links you posted I apologize as I did not look through them.
  • OgoTheKeeper
    32 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    To be honest, I can't really speak definitively on the state of game at this point in time because I didn't purchase it. However, my experience in the beta all but guaranteed that I would never buy this game. Tbh, I wouldn't even accept a free copy. The first time I played the beta and heard the commentary, I already knew that there was a near zero chance of me purchasing the game. I mean, who in their right mind thought that those ear grating commentators were acceptable for this game? Since the Jim Clement days, I've always asserted that Gord Miller should have been the next voice for the NHL games. He's measured and his voice lacks any ear grating pitches. Nope then went to the disaster that was Doc "geometrically" Emric smh.

    Honestly, I thought NHL 19 was really stale but my time with NHL 20 left a sour taste in my mouth. Everything about the NHL franchise is stale. From the rendering techniques used to the player models to the animations just feels stale. The control scheme is stale. The modes are stale. Unfortunately, the most offensive thing about the franchise is that it's stale. Competition breeds innovation and the lack of competition has led to regression and lack of innovation in all areas of the game.

    I remember the first time I played an NHL game. It was shortly after I moved to Canada and it was my first introduction to hockey. I believe it was NHL 98 on PC. I was enamored with the sport. NHL 98 wasn't the best game but to a beginner like me it was fun. Sinces then I've watched the series progress and regress and its sad to see. The moment to moment gameplay is completely boring. I never thought I'd see the day where I viewed NHL games to be boring but here we are. This team has been living of the series peak that occurred with NHL 10/11. Since then, it's iterated the fun out of the game. Fun doesn't mean playing 8-7 games or scoring lots of goals. The moment to moment gameplay is what makes things fun. Honestly the game design is so bad. The mode design is so tired. Part of it is due to a lack of competition but, still, it truly is sad. At this point, I feel it would be best to just rebuild everything from scratch. The Littman era brought some great ideas and was great for its time but, it's time to move on.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Meh, what can you do. It's as if EA has been trying to condition us over the years that defense and goaltending is bad and shouldn't be part of the game. Seems this year they dropped the bomb and made it official.

    Funny thing is, when you complain that poke checking is unrealistic, you get explained how to do it, that there are "realistic physics and mechanics" behind it, and essentially, to get good. You complain it's too hard and unrealistic and you get told there's a skill gap and certain players can keep their GAA under 1 per game.

    You explain that playing goalie is hard, clunky and boring, extremely unrewarding, you get told that it should be hard, get good, and well, sometimes you gotta get sniped.

    You complain that defense actually plays the game, that you get bumped off the puck when you refuse to pass it, game gets completely changed and adapted to the people that can't score.

    Somehow, I get it. EA wants a fast paced north-south game. Forwards want to get to the net with the least amount of complications. That is why you never see anyone form EA explaining that setting up goals is a process, requires practice and that you need to fight and find space on the ice. They never say to pass the puck or "git gud" when forwards complain they get knocked off the puck. When they heard dekes were too hard to pull off on old gen, they made it super simple for this gen. They constantly cater to forwards and funny thing is, by doing so, sales are not improving. The game isn't growing.

    That's what they want, fine. Just don't call it NHL hockey and don't expect me to buy it. Maybe call it Deke 'N Shoot Hockey.

    When it comes to direction for the game, I do want to shed the other perspective since you have been in a number of these threads over the years and should know that my perspective is more balanced than what you describe above.

    There are lots of pieces in these below threads where I discuss pieces without bias one way or the other towards offense or defense and am simply looking to make a balanced game. You will see me talk about the skill gap that exists on both sides of the puck telling people how they can improve from both sides. I cover using defensive tools and try to help players improve at using them due to us not wanting to reward bad positioning and timing but also defend how good positioning alone and incidental contact/puck loss is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking, also telling the offense to do a better job of moving the puck and keeping possession.

    You will also see me talk about how we reverted the changes last year where we originally tuned to lower the bumps from behind because even if a bit over the top, we wanted to reward moving the puck and team play as opposed to solo puck carriers. That mindset is the same today and we are still trying to track down why PS4 can feel different at low relative speeds so that if anything it would play like Xbox, not the other way around.

    There are also a lot of discussions you may just not see where I am taking the defensive side of balance when speaking to some competitive 6's players that feel that shot accuracy on builds should be higher or that traits shouldn't take away from shot accuracy and that smaller builds should have more balance.

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/233697/and-just-like-that-the-optimism-faded/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/235507/what-do-devs-consider-skill/p7

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238328/beta-tuner-rollback-update-current-gameplay-feedback-survey/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/237011/an-update-on-gameplay-feedback-action-plan/p18

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/241448/ive-asked-this-before-ea-and-got-no-response-so-trying-again

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238129/gameplay-question-for-nhl-dev/p1


    And if you don't want to dig through right now, a couple quick examples I picked below.

    First one is of a response form me last year when people were complaining about getting bumped off the puck and incidental contact puck loss:

    “In general, players limiting the relative speed and doing a good job protecting the puck still have a lot of success protecting the puck. I would bet it is actually incidental contact causing the puck loss but would need to see the videos to be sure. We did tune limb tensions to what we intended between the beta and final and we also improved consistency of the physics reactions.

    Overall, it is in a fairly good spot but I do know that some players wish they were keeping the puck easier. That said, people complain about puck control when it is too high and when the hitting feels like there are bubbles as well, so having more flush contact where puck control is disrupted but able to be picked up again is often more realistic in some of those lower speed collisions where players are able to use their body. It encourages players to get to more space, move the puck and be more aware of the subtle nature of protecting the puck and/or keeping yourself between the defense and any loose puck that can occur eve if you are going to lose it.”


    Example of how we want to encourage good team based gameplay and passing. That we don’t side with players feeling that they don't have the ability to keep the puck on offense:

    "We have spoken about this before and the consensus from most was that incidental contact was a great thing for the game that players wouldn't want to see taken away. However, this only comes into play when players get in tight to individual players to beat them 1 on 1 with the puck or try to do too much as an individual through a crowd of players. That is where a good team based game and passing come into play. The puck carrier also gets to drive and the defense has to react so if you allow a defender to angle you out and tighten a gap where you lose the puck to incidental contact, you haven't made the right choices. If it is multiple players that are able to close off the puck carrier, then there must be some players open to pass to."

    "Good team based gameplay" doesnt apply to the regular Top 100 hut players who exploit how overpowered puck possession is in this franchise...

    Theres just literally nothing you can do defensively against players that bully you with unrealistic "puck-ragging" tactics.

    They win every faceoff, keep their backs turned and puck handle seemlessly around the outside (stick through the boards) all while your 6' 220 lb defenders that are just flailing their arms around and unable to land a shoulder through an apparent invisible "hit bubble" that magically protects the puck carrier and keeps the puck magnetized to their stick.

    The other day I played a hut champions game with a guy who had over 18:00 minutes time on attack.....I lost 4-3.

    Just give me a game with true puck and player contact physics. Yes I want nudges, bumps , shoves, pokes, lifts and whatever it takes to jar the puck loose from these increasingly toxic , streamer chel bros who literally just skate in circles with the puck for an entire period at a time.

    Its the same garbage year after year.



  • Above1988 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Meh, what can you do. It's as if EA has been trying to condition us over the years that defense and goaltending is bad and shouldn't be part of the game. Seems this year they dropped the bomb and made it official.

    Funny thing is, when you complain that poke checking is unrealistic, you get explained how to do it, that there are "realistic physics and mechanics" behind it, and essentially, to get good. You complain it's too hard and unrealistic and you get told there's a skill gap and certain players can keep their GAA under 1 per game.

    You explain that playing goalie is hard, clunky and boring, extremely unrewarding, you get told that it should be hard, get good, and well, sometimes you gotta get sniped.

    You complain that defense actually plays the game, that you get bumped off the puck when you refuse to pass it, game gets completely changed and adapted to the people that can't score.

    Somehow, I get it. EA wants a fast paced north-south game. Forwards want to get to the net with the least amount of complications. That is why you never see anyone form EA explaining that setting up goals is a process, requires practice and that you need to fight and find space on the ice. They never say to pass the puck or "git gud" when forwards complain they get knocked off the puck. When they heard dekes were too hard to pull off on old gen, they made it super simple for this gen. They constantly cater to forwards and funny thing is, by doing so, sales are not improving. The game isn't growing.

    That's what they want, fine. Just don't call it NHL hockey and don't expect me to buy it. Maybe call it Deke 'N Shoot Hockey.

    When it comes to direction for the game, I do want to shed the other perspective since you have been in a number of these threads over the years and should know that my perspective is more balanced than what you describe above.

    There are lots of pieces in these below threads where I discuss pieces without bias one way or the other towards offense or defense and am simply looking to make a balanced game. You will see me talk about the skill gap that exists on both sides of the puck telling people how they can improve from both sides. I cover using defensive tools and try to help players improve at using them due to us not wanting to reward bad positioning and timing but also defend how good positioning alone and incidental contact/puck loss is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking, also telling the offense to do a better job of moving the puck and keeping possession.

    You will also see me talk about how we reverted the changes last year where we originally tuned to lower the bumps from behind because even if a bit over the top, we wanted to reward moving the puck and team play as opposed to solo puck carriers. That mindset is the same today and we are still trying to track down why PS4 can feel different at low relative speeds so that if anything it would play like Xbox, not the other way around.

    There are also a lot of discussions you may just not see where I am taking the defensive side of balance when speaking to some competitive 6's players that feel that shot accuracy on builds should be higher or that traits shouldn't take away from shot accuracy and that smaller builds should have more balance.

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/233697/and-just-like-that-the-optimism-faded/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/235507/what-do-devs-consider-skill/p7

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238328/beta-tuner-rollback-update-current-gameplay-feedback-survey/p9

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/237011/an-update-on-gameplay-feedback-action-plan/p18

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/241448/ive-asked-this-before-ea-and-got-no-response-so-trying-again

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/238129/gameplay-question-for-nhl-dev/p1


    And if you don't want to dig through right now, a couple quick examples I picked below.

    First one is of a response form me last year when people were complaining about getting bumped off the puck and incidental contact puck loss:

    “In general, players limiting the relative speed and doing a good job protecting the puck still have a lot of success protecting the puck. I would bet it is actually incidental contact causing the puck loss but would need to see the videos to be sure. We did tune limb tensions to what we intended between the beta and final and we also improved consistency of the physics reactions.

    Overall, it is in a fairly good spot but I do know that some players wish they were keeping the puck easier. That said, people complain about puck control when it is too high and when the hitting feels like there are bubbles as well, so having more flush contact where puck control is disrupted but able to be picked up again is often more realistic in some of those lower speed collisions where players are able to use their body. It encourages players to get to more space, move the puck and be more aware of the subtle nature of protecting the puck and/or keeping yourself between the defense and any loose puck that can occur eve if you are going to lose it.”


    Example of how we want to encourage good team based gameplay and passing. That we don’t side with players feeling that they don't have the ability to keep the puck on offense:

    "We have spoken about this before and the consensus from most was that incidental contact was a great thing for the game that players wouldn't want to see taken away. However, this only comes into play when players get in tight to individual players to beat them 1 on 1 with the puck or try to do too much as an individual through a crowd of players. That is where a good team based game and passing come into play. The puck carrier also gets to drive and the defense has to react so if you allow a defender to angle you out and tighten a gap where you lose the puck to incidental contact, you haven't made the right choices. If it is multiple players that are able to close off the puck carrier, then there must be some players open to pass to."

    "Good team based gameplay" doesnt apply to the regular Top 100 hut players who exploit how overpowered puck possession is in this franchise...

    Theres just literally nothing you can do defensively against players that bully you with unrealistic "puck-ragging" tactics.

    They win every faceoff, keep their backs turned and puck handle seemlessly around the outside (stick through the boards) all while your 6' 220 lb defenders that are just flailing their arms around and unable to land a shoulder through an apparent invisible "hit bubble" that magically protects the puck carrier and keeps the puck magnetized to their stick.

    The other day I played a hut champions game with a guy who had over 18:00 minutes time on attack.....I lost 4-3.

    Just give me a game with true puck and player contact physics. Yes I want nudges, bumps , shoves, pokes, lifts and whatever it takes to jar the puck loose from these increasingly toxic , streamer chel bros who literally just skate in circles with the puck for an entire period at a time.

    Its the same garbage year after year.



    Unfortunately thats who ea caters to ,it seems when their unhappy ea moves quickly , but when we do they can careless or my faviorite line from last year after release when they made changes that made the game garbage ,"it created skill gap",and this years is" the consensus says its in a good place"a good place for whom
  • @NHLDev

    I appreciate the time you spend here letting us under the hood or behind the curtain and I believe that you believe in the philosophies that you've listed and you desire balance, but the current state of your current product does not seem to fall in line with those:

    "I cover using defensive tools and try to help players improve at using them due to us not wanting to reward bad positioning and timing but also defend how good positioning alone and incidental contact/puck loss is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking"

    I would agree with NHL 19, however in NHL 20 I take issue with "is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking". In NHL 20 the risk/reward of poke checking just isn't worth it and one could say the same with hitting. Even when used properly, hits hurt the defender more often than help. I would say that positioning and incidental contact are the only viable options on defense this year.

    "also telling the offense to do a better job of moving the puck and keeping possession" and "we wanted to reward moving the puck and team play as opposed to solo puck carriers. That mindset is the same today"

    Is it? I don't think NHL 20 got the memo in this area either. Let's start with moving the puck. Passing speed seems much slower this year as does dumping the puck up the boards. Defenders are able to do no-look 180 degree behind them one handed puck interceptions and catch them clean every time and be off to the races. These changes have strongly discouraged moving the puck and team play.

    now as to "solo puck carriers" being discouraged...
    You increase the effectiveness of LT/L2 abuse, decrease the effectiveness of poke checking, decrease the effectiveness of body checks and increase puck control (or does it just seem like it because of all the listed factors?) All of these changes strongly encourage solo puck handlers.

    You put all these changes together and I don't see how you can come to any conclusion other than this years game rewards selfish puck hogging gameplay instead of teamplay oriented hockey when compared to previous years.
  • NHLDev
    1453 posts EA NHL Developer
    jrago73 wrote: »
    @NHLDev

    I appreciate the time you spend here letting us under the hood or behind the curtain and I believe that you believe in the philosophies that you've listed and you desire balance, but the current state of your current product does not seem to fall in line with those:

    "I cover using defensive tools and try to help players improve at using them due to us not wanting to reward bad positioning and timing but also defend how good positioning alone and incidental contact/puck loss is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking"

    I would agree with NHL 19, however in NHL 20 I take issue with "is just as valid a defensive tool as hitting or pokechecking". In NHL 20 the risk/reward of poke checking just isn't worth it and one could say the same with hitting. Even when used properly, hits hurt the defender more often than help. I would say that positioning and incidental contact are the only viable options on defense this year.

    "also telling the offense to do a better job of moving the puck and keeping possession" and "we wanted to reward moving the puck and team play as opposed to solo puck carriers. That mindset is the same today"

    Is it? I don't think NHL 20 got the memo in this area either. Let's start with moving the puck. Passing speed seems much slower this year as does dumping the puck up the boards. Defenders are able to do no-look 180 degree behind them one handed puck interceptions and catch them clean every time and be off to the races. These changes have strongly discouraged moving the puck and team play.

    now as to "solo puck carriers" being discouraged...
    You increase the effectiveness of LT/L2 abuse, decrease the effectiveness of poke checking, decrease the effectiveness of body checks and increase puck control (or does it just seem like it because of all the listed factors?) All of these changes strongly encourage solo puck handlers.

    You put all these changes together and I don't see how you can come to any conclusion other than this years game rewards selfish puck hogging gameplay instead of teamplay oriented hockey when compared to previous years.
    The main thing I can see as causing these pieces are the improved pickups. It was something that the community was still asking for since anytime a player didn't pickup a puck or missed a puck going by them, they would call out pickups as the issue. However, it is now seen why less coverage in some areas and more reaction delay could actually have been more realistic once players see the other side. Both offense and defense benefit from the new pickup system and now that we have maybe moved passed the meme status of seamless pickups, we can look at some additional tuning around realism within pickups. This may mean that it should take a bit longer to react after stick on stick contact to pick a puck back up or that pucks that pass behind you need to be moving slower or you need much more reaction time to be able to pick them up than you do currently.

    For the pieces you call out specifically, if you are comparing to 19, we didn't make changes to hitting in terms of our thresholds for what constitutes the levels of reactions, etc. but we are still looking into the discrepancy between consoles for low relative speed hits. We did however fix some issues where incidental body on body contact had limb tensions that were too low at times and would move the arm/stick and disrupt puck control in ways that weren't intended (i.e. when a player was just skating behind a player unable to fully catch them) Pokechecking is the same as far as the mechanic goes and if anything, it is more forgiving to penalties because we shrunk the collision volumes down a bit more than they were in 19 so you have to get a bigger piece of the player for it to be a trip. I am not sure what you mean about increasing the effectiveness of pivoting either as the only change that was made there was to remove the ability to accel during parts of the pivot, so it may not have been enough to discourage using it in situations that don't see it in the real world but compared to 19, it is the same or less effective.
  • NHLDev
    1453 posts EA NHL Developer
    Definitely appreciate the feedback @NHLDev but what are your thoughts on the LT abuse that is literally ruining this game?

    And if it was addressed in one of the links you posted I apologize as I did not look through them.

    We made the fix this year to ensure that mid pivot you weren't able to still accelerate. People thought it was allowing players to gain speed last year but it was just that they weren't slowing down as much as you would expect.

    We did add tuners that can impact puck control when trying to pivot at high speeds but noticed in most cases, players aren't necessarily doing the moves out of their highest speeds and have been looking at backskating ability with the puck but it is tough to not impact times when people are using those controls legitimately such as skating along the blueline and pivoting to open up and make a pass cross ice to your other D partner, etc. or receiving a puck facing the pass and then pivoting quickly to start skating up ice with the puck.

    To keep the puck when getting shoved from behind, the relative speed has to be quite slow so a player that pivots to backwards towards you is actually not that hard to shove off the puck but most people aren't hitting in those cases due to the threat of the player pivoting around them so that is why puck control and skating ability with the puck is a consideration. It just has to be done right.
  • No as users our AI defense is absolute garbage however the pc can have players skating behind my player and when I pass in the direction I'm skating they steal it through my player from behind and are instantly skating the opposite direction. I'm at a loss for words as to how bad this game is. I should have known better with it being. A money grubbing EA product. Never NEVER again will I buy any EA product. Give me a refund and take you garbage back.
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