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The travesty of sticks going through bodies

Obviously the nature of being a gimped D-man (more and more each year), has been talked about thoroughly, although I think it keeps falling on deaf ears. EA wants to make this a scoring game while taking out most of the power to defend from the defense and giving the worst control imaginable to human goalies. Honestly the last line of defense for us D-men is being in good position. Especially when wingers are streaking, but even good position is exploited by forwards.

Poke check can pick up a penalty. DSS can pick up a penalty. Stick lift can pick up a penalty. Block shot can pick up a penalty. Desperation dive can pick up a penalty. Checking other than head on hits, or by using the slowest, biggest class, is non-existent. You can't skate at speed when holding the DSS out. Lag puts you about a half-second disadvantage, so you have to constantly try to keep up with the play. I can go on, but really, all that's left is positioning now. This year, with the puck magnet, I am running more and more into these infuriating results. Even if I'm in great position with a terrible forward who skates right into me, the puck is retained even if it looks to go through my body. I mean, at this point, I guess the last thing we can use is bad language to play defense.

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Replies

  • So what did you want to happen here? You went thru his stick, didnt go for puck and basically went for a hit and missed. When did you the quick 180 you could of dds and the puck would of went to the corner. (Cant tell if you tried that)

    He loses the puck for a moment and gets it back because he was in position to do so. How long should he lose possession if you only take out his stick?

    Maybe staying between him and the net would of had better results. Do you have a longer clip?
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    So what did you want to happen here? You went thru his stick, didnt go for puck and basically went for a hit and missed. When did you the quick 180 you could of dds and the puck would of went to the corner. (Cant tell if you tried that)

    He loses the puck for a moment and gets it back because he was in position to do so. How long should he lose possession if you only take out his stick?

    Maybe staying between him and the net would of had better results. Do you have a longer clip?

    You're not really addressing OP's point here.



    I'm teal.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited October 2019
    flyextacy wrote: »
    So what did you want to happen here? You went thru his stick, didnt go for puck and basically went for a hit and missed. When did you the quick 180 you could of dds and the puck would of went to the corner. (Cant tell if you tried that)

    He loses the puck for a moment and gets it back because he was in position to do so. How long should he lose possession if you only take out his stick?

    Maybe staying between him and the net would of had better results. Do you have a longer clip?

    Sorry, but wrong.

    First of all, the carrier cuts to his right directly towards TEAL, has nowhere to go from there, so his stick goes through the defender, game somehow makes TEAL miss that body check, and is rewarded with puck possession. The forward did absolutely nothing special there, no display of skill or any dekes, actually allowed himself to get boxed in between the boards and defender and got rewarded for basically a terrible play in any hockey league that would have resulted in a turnover.

    2nd time he simply shrugs off TEAL with the oh so famous, insanely over used and ridiculous tactic: curling your stick away. This game constantly rewards garbage forwards, so can you image any half decent or top forward.

    I see stuff like this an absurd amount of times, and this is every single time I play.

    Oh well, been putting off Red Dead 2 for awhile. Time I dive into it and actually get my $60 worth out of every single minute I play it. I'll actually walk away feeling like I played and had fun instead of feeling like I did my job and walk away frustrated like this game does to me.
  • So what should of happened in his clip?

    Yours is better because its showing him fire a full shot thru your player which we can agree shouldn't happen. My question is, if he shooting, before the stick hits teal, would he have scored anyway with the momentum of the puck going toward goal.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    So what should of happened in his clip?

    Yours is better because its showing him fire a full shot thru your player which we can agree shouldn't happen. My question is, if he shooting, before the stick hits teal, would he have scored anyway with the momentum of the puck going toward goal.

    I screwed up the replay...from the other side it should have hit my right leg. Maybe it still goes in, but from what I saw it should have hit side of net.
  • I agree that looks pretty dumb lol. But im guessing Ea does that so that the puck isnt just constantly hitting sticks and feet and sometimes the animation isnt pretty. If they changed it nobody would ever be able to grab a puck in front of the net. It wouldnt be an issue if you could have just poked the guy trying to dangle right in front of you without your stick instantly smashing into his feet for a tripping penalty. Bring back the poke check and 90% of this issue goes away
  • I can't speak for the OP, but in the current system I'd like to see more of a punishment for players trying to carry the puck through defending players. Either the puck should be much looser during contact like this or the offensive player should have a much harder time regaining possession.

    Pie-in-the-sky, some future release wishing? I'd like to see sticks react to bodies and the boards like they were actual solid objects. The play in the OP would end up a lot different if the puck carriers stick couldn't maintain it's position like that. I think a lot of the problems with the game right now could be solved by moving away from the pretty convoluted set of rules it's using right now to account for the fact that stick don't really interact with anything.
  • Truth is, I see sticks through people almost daily. It's a serious game play affecting issue, and needs to be acknowledged and addressed by EA. Unfortunately, they obviously don't care enough to communicate with us.
  • Moxrox84 wrote: »
    Truth is, I see sticks through people almost daily. It's a serious game play affecting issue, and needs to be acknowledged and addressed by EA. Unfortunately, they obviously don't care enough to communicate with us.

    Well that's not true, they have spoke in detail on this for multiple years. I'm paraphrasing but they are trying to find the right blend of control because a player in rl can move their stick in ways you cant program in a game. They have done opposite extremes in testing and found it sticks cant go thru anything it will negatively affect the overall game play. I'm all for trying to get more realistic but I dont want the game to be broken either.
  • flyextacy wrote: »
    Moxrox84 wrote: »
    Truth is, I see sticks through people almost daily. It's a serious game play affecting issue, and needs to be acknowledged and addressed by EA. Unfortunately, they obviously don't care enough to communicate with us.

    Well that's not true, they have spoke in detail on this for multiple years. I'm paraphrasing but they are trying to find the right blend of control because a player in rl can move their stick in ways you cant program in a game. They have done opposite extremes in testing and found it sticks cant go thru anything it will negatively affect the overall game play. I'm all for trying to get more realistic but I dont want the game to be broken either.

    I remember that conversation, but you are not totally accurate.

    If a defender is skating near his net and his stick clips through the post to pick up the puck, it is tolerable and ok. If your stick clips a bit through the boards to pick up a puck, it is tolerable as well. Your own AI cuts in front of you and your stick clips through while retaining the puck is also tolerable and ok.

    But to say that a defender can literally pass right through a carrier's stick and carrier still retains the puck? That is not tolerable. Sorry, but that's what dekes and passes are for. Either deke around a defender, or get rid of the puck.

    When the goalie is in butterfly and the puck is behind him, yet forwards can poke through the goalie and tap it in? Not tolerable, not ok. There isn't a single player in real life that is good enough with his stick to physically poke through someone.

    And the problem is, sometimes the game recognizes contact and will dislodge the puck, and for whatever reasons, sometimes it doesn't. And that is a major problem. This series has always suffered from inconsistencies for as far back as I can remember.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Moxrox84 wrote: »
    You're not really addressing OP's point here.



    I'm teal.
    If the stick hit your leg before it released the puck, the puck would just come loose with the momentum it currently had and not had the power of the shot. Once released, the follow through of a shot has no impact on the puck but before, it certainly does.

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited October 2019
    flyextacy wrote: »
    Moxrox84 wrote: »
    Truth is, I see sticks through people almost daily. It's a serious game play affecting issue, and needs to be acknowledged and addressed by EA. Unfortunately, they obviously don't care enough to communicate with us.

    Well that's not true, they have spoke in detail on this for multiple years. I'm paraphrasing but they are trying to find the right blend of control because a player in rl can move their stick in ways you cant program in a game. They have done opposite extremes in testing and found it sticks cant go thru anything it will negatively affect the overall game play. I'm all for trying to get more realistic but I dont want the game to be broken either.

    This is the reality of it. Until we can have players gracefully avoid their sticks getting caught on things, the solution we have is better for overall gameplay.

    Tuning is always subjective. So it is possible that the delay a player should have after stick on stick or stick on body contact should be longer. Right now their is a base physical time and the time can be longer based on player ratings being lower. Stick on stick contact time is shorter than stick on body right now as well. It simulates the time it would take to have the stick move around the obstruction and get back to the puck.
  • Similar example to @Moxrox84 but the player's stick is inside the defenseman's leg when it makes contact.

  • Similar example to @Moxrox84 but the player's stick is inside the defenseman's leg when it makes contact.


    Yeah would definitely not want to see him make contact on that one.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Similar example to @Moxrox84 but the player's stick is inside the defenseman's leg when it makes contact.


    Good clip. It looks in this case like it may actually have just released the puck at the velocity it had prior to the contact (due to the weak arc it gets) but the puck already had more velocity before the leg contact was realized by the game. This can be improved but if not done right, you also get phantom collisions and the issues we saw in the past where the puck stops dead before we even see contact happen. It is all timing of where collisions occur in the frame and what is calculated first and when.

    We used to have two frames of contact on these types of shovels and it slowed them down and made the contact feel sticky. If we had the two frames, the puck wouldn't have been launched on the first frame of contact and may have come off even weaker in this case.

    Again, appreciate the video to see what you are seeing with the current tuning/mechanics.
  • Thread blew up. I'll have to read responses and Dev responses when I get home
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Similar example to @Moxrox84 but the player's stick is inside the defenseman's leg when it makes contact.


    Good clip. It looks in this case like it may actually have just released the puck at the velocity it had prior to the contact (due to the weak arc it gets) but the puck already had more velocity before the leg contact was realized by the game. This can be improved but if not done right, you also get phantom collisions and the issues we saw in the past where the puck stops dead before we even see contact happen. It is all timing of where collisions occur in the frame and what is calculated first and when.

    We used to have two frames of contact on these types of shovels and it slowed them down and made the contact feel sticky. If we had the two frames, the puck wouldn't have been launched on the first frame of contact and may have come off even weaker in this case.

    Again, appreciate the video to see what you are seeing with the current tuning/mechanics.

    Why does the offensive player even make contact with the puck here? Puck should've slid through to the corner imo.
    EASHL player
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