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NHL 20 Content Update December 5th

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  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    .
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    After a few games last night to test out the new update, I'm sad to say that it still feels largely the same. People are still abusing the LT (as predicted) as the nerf didn't go far enough.

    I really don't mind if people use it to create a little space, but when they're back skating with the puck from their zone to our zone, there's not much you can do to them without causing a penalty or putting yourself out of position as they retain way too much agility and puck control. For myself, I try to keep my body aligned with theirs so that they can't have a free line to the net. But many other people aren't as patient and just want to get at the puck by any means possible, as quickly as possible so they try to ram into them or poke them to dislodge the puck, so they end up either getting coned as they miss the hit or they get penalty after penalty for trying to poke the puck away from the opponent who has their back turned to them.

    The issue with the goalies hugging the post and shooting out of a canon when they release it is fixed, but they still give up too many goals to poor decision making on what saves to make. And I'm not just talking about ME allowing goals, but other human opponents and even the AI goalies are just letting in too many questionable goals because of bad save animations.

    Bad in the sense that, for example, a goalie will go into a compact "blocking" butterlfy save, then he has the entire glove side open and should favour a more limb based type save. Even if he doesn't stop the puck, it would like a million times better for the goalie to stretch out his arms and/or legs to attempt a save than to slide with his limbs tucked into his body and allow the puck to easily go in the net.

    If they can fix the goalies, then this game will be on the right track. Not yet "great", but better.

    PS;

    Oh, BTW... EA? The "Snoop dance" celly? It's actually called "Drop it like it's hot"... If you're gonna go to the trouble of putting something licensed into the game (I'm sure you had to pay Snoop to include it), maybe get the name right, eh? ;)

    The save issue is something we have talked about. It is a fine line. It is the difference of a few frames if it looks correct or not.

    As you said, in some of the cases, even if late, it would look better if the goalie moved their glove/blocker to where the puck passed them to show awareness. In both cases, the goalie is just late though and would miss from a tuning/reaction time perspective. When they are sliding over blocking, x frames later, the shoulder they shrug would have been in line with the shot. We see this on bang-bang one timers in the NHL as well but the difference of a frame or a certain distance and it looks a bit more out of place.

    This isn't the best example but was the first one I found:


    We do have it on our list to look at how the goalie reacts to a last ditch effort to get a limb up reacting to a puck that is right on them/passing them though as it improves the overall feel if we get that nuance correct.

    For the pivoting ability and puck control, we are learning based on what we see at all levels of play in multiple players hands. The whole point of posting the videos was to show what the new code and tuning has the potential to do, it doesn't mean we are done looking at it or even adding more code to compliment it. We also have code/tuning around balance of the player when pivoting/backskating with the puck that would help in cases where body contact is being used on defense.
  • Joeforton wrote: »
    Maybe we should think about WHY people feel they are forced to LT all the time. I am only talking about 6s, no computers in my examples.

    # 1
    players in this game keep their elbows glued to their hip when stick handling, this is UNREALISTIC considering players in real life learn to extend the elbow away from the hip for greater forehand and back hand extension and even more depth in the curl and drag.

    #2 When the other team is trapping and you beat them with a nice pass to your teammate for a breakaway the defensive team still catches up to you. This is unrealistic for two reasons, #1 defenders speed up too fast from standing still at their blue line. #2 forward player receiving the breakaway has to hold off left stick and glide WAY longer then is required in real life to receive a pass. Lt is being used in this situation every time because using real life hockey iq and finding a pass to beat the trap does NOT work like in real life against a decent trapping team.

    #3 Players passes are far too weak and the puck doesn't slide fast enough, I watch 12 year olds saucer the puck up the ice faster ,further and more accurately on a OUTDOOR rink in Calgary half covered in snow then guys like Joe Thornton can in this game. Reward us for passing to a open lane and players will pass! as it stands now passes are so slow and players have to glide so long to receive a pass that everyone catches up to them, even the guy who passed it can catch up.

    #4 The realistic dekes in this game are hilariously bad. for example when you start a toe drag in real life it only takes a couple inches to stop the forward movement of the puck, yet when you do a toe drag in nhl 20 your guy will move for three FEET before any forward movement is stopped. After you compensate for the online ping you have to toe drag about 5 feet before you actually want it to happen and that's completely unrealistic.



    #5 Dekes in this game lock you into the full animation and are always the same. This allows defenders to know exactly where and when you will be when the deke ends. This is unrealistic considering in real life players can adjust and even stop moves half way through as they read and react on the ice.


    Basically all of the realistic ways to play hockey in this game are unrealistically nerfed.

    Underated post. I especially love the elbows glued to the hips comment. Players like Elias Pettersson is always extending the puck away from his body past defenders and then bringing his elbows back in after he has the space, one of the reasons why he's so elite with his hands. I think we're still a far cry away from that, as a physics system where players battle for the puck needs to be in place still but it's a great idea regardless.
  • I can't comment too much because I have yet to play it, but if it looks like the video I'm glad they're doing something at least to combat against it. I really hope they didn't "under-do" it to the point of where it's still abuseable. Like Wain said, we should decrease the player's ability to take a hit in this animation.

    With that said though, if they're actively working on these things that we're asking for, I'm not too sure why everybody is slagging them for doing what we want. We should encourage this behaviour, not deter it in the future. I was the one who made the comment about losing the puck at high speed pivots, and based on the video somebody actually listened to my advice of adjust the puck control sliders to do this. This is good.

    But again, haven't played. Haven't seen a stream of it online in actual play so take my comment with a grain of salt. It looks slow in the videos, so hopefully it emulated the videos.

    It's not enough. The nerf to LT just slightly made it slower to make half turns, but the underlying problem, that it's being abused as a risk free way to get around the defense is still there. Players still retain a ridiculous amount of puck control while doing it and they still get a boost to agility WHILE holding the puck in that position. Poking them results in a penalty (as it should), you can't stick lift them because the puck is on the other side of their body. And you can't hit them because all they need to do is slightly rotate to deflect hits.

    All you can do is what the "top" elite players are complaining about: you just stand there and let them run into you to remove the puck via incidental contact. That, according to them, makes the Defense OP and it's their excuse for why they NEED to have LT abuse to "create offense".
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »

    This isn't the best example but was the first one I found:

    That's a great example actually. But that's not really what I was talking about. In that clip, Holtby covers the entire gap pretty quickly so that he's already at the other post just as Crosby is shooting it. So in that case a blocking save was the correct thing to do (if you're a Blocking Butterfly style goalie). While someone like Jonathan Quick might have just gone into a split save. I wish this game had save animation differentiation between styles... *sigh*

    Also, I think Holtby was anticipating that the pass was going to go to the slot, to Guentzel and he didn't see Crosby because he was in his blind zone. So when he saw the pass, he went into a blocking save thinking the shot was going to come from the slot and not the side like it did. Just goes to show what happens when you try to anticipate something instead of reacting. Still that was very poor reflexes on his part. :p

    In any case, what I'm talking about is when a goalie has a wider gap to reach the post, he still goes into a blocking save animation. Not all the time, but fairly often, which makes it all the more infuriating when you've made a couple of good saves that way, and then the next shot, your goalie refuses to stick out his limb again, even though it's the same situation as just happened 3-4 times before.

    Again, not looking for a bailout from the game stopping all the pucks. Looking at CONSISTENCY which is the mark of a good goalie. If I can be consistent, I can keep getting better. If things are left up to chance...
    NHLDev wrote: »
    For the pivoting ability and puck control, we are learning based on what we see at all levels of play in multiple players hands. The whole point of posting the videos was to show what the new code and tuning has the potential to do, it doesn't mean we are done looking at it or even adding more code to compliment it. We also have code/tuning around balance of the player when pivoting/backskating with the puck that would help in cases where body contact is being used on defense.

    The issue here, is that as d-men we have no tools to contain a skater with our body. DSS helps in some cases, but the fact that it can cause a tripping infraction if the puck holder happens to skate his geo through our outheld stick makes it more complicated to use correctly than a user holding LT to hold on to the puck. Trying to hit them to disrupt their possession is also risky because the agility they retain while skating backwards with the puck makes it so that they can simply rotate slightly and shrug off the hit because of the 'realistic' physics engine...

    To me it's more about people having to work for their success rather than just take the easy route and abuse the mechanics because "it's what works". If the LT wasn't a viable tool to abuse the skating and puck control mechanics, I think a lot of people would be OK with it. You want to skate like a ballerina at the Ice Capades and lose the puck all the time or get plastered because you slowed down to a crawl doing it, go ahead.

    But as it is right now, it's still very much abusable. And after an initial rush of fear from the people who would abuse it and thought it was the end of their "careers", most people have adjusted and continue to abuse it in game.

    So nothing's changed.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I can't comment too much because I have yet to play it, but if it looks like the video I'm glad they're doing something at least to combat against it. I really hope they didn't "under-do" it to the point of where it's still abuseable. Like Wain said, we should decrease the player's ability to take a hit in this animation.

    With that said though, if they're actively working on these things that we're asking for, I'm not too sure why everybody is slagging them for doing what we want. We should encourage this behaviour, not deter it in the future. I was the one who made the comment about losing the puck at high speed pivots, and based on the video somebody actually listened to my advice of adjust the puck control sliders to do this. This is good.

    But again, haven't played. Haven't seen a stream of it online in actual play so take my comment with a grain of salt. It looks slow in the videos, so hopefully it emulated the videos.

    It's not enough. The nerf to LT just slightly made it slower to make half turns, but the underlying problem, that it's being abused as a risk free way to get around the defense is still there. Players still retain a ridiculous amount of puck control while doing it and they still get a boost to agility WHILE holding the puck in that position. Poking them results in a penalty (as it should), you can't stick lift them because the puck is on the other side of their body. And you can't hit them because all they need to do is slightly rotate to deflect hits.

    All you can do is what the "top" elite players are complaining about: you just stand there and let them run into you to remove the puck via incidental contact. That, according to them, makes the Defense OP and it's their excuse for why they NEED to have LT abuse to "create offense".

    I'd definitely take your word over most peoples'. If that's the case then absolutely it needs to be nerfed further. I like the common idea between Wain and myself, mine being that you lose the puck at high speeds for pivot (like going 65% and above of max speed will cause puck loss) and his being that going into that animation severely limits your player balance and are more susceptible to being hit off of the puck.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I can't comment too much because I have yet to play it, but if it looks like the video I'm glad they're doing something at least to combat against it. I really hope they didn't "under-do" it to the point of where it's still abuseable. Like Wain said, we should decrease the player's ability to take a hit in this animation.

    With that said though, if they're actively working on these things that we're asking for, I'm not too sure why everybody is slagging them for doing what we want. We should encourage this behaviour, not deter it in the future. I was the one who made the comment about losing the puck at high speed pivots, and based on the video somebody actually listened to my advice of adjust the puck control sliders to do this. This is good.

    But again, haven't played. Haven't seen a stream of it online in actual play so take my comment with a grain of salt. It looks slow in the videos, so hopefully it emulated the videos.

    It's not enough. The nerf to LT just slightly made it slower to make half turns, but the underlying problem, that it's being abused as a risk free way to get around the defense is still there. Players still retain a ridiculous amount of puck control while doing it and they still get a boost to agility WHILE holding the puck in that position. Poking them results in a penalty (as it should), you can't stick lift them because the puck is on the other side of their body. And you can't hit them because all they need to do is slightly rotate to deflect hits.

    All you can do is what the "top" elite players are complaining about: you just stand there and let them run into you to remove the puck via incidental contact. That, according to them, makes the Defense OP and it's their excuse for why they NEED to have LT abuse to "create offense".

    I'd definitely take your word over most peoples'. If that's the case then absolutely it needs to be nerfed further. I like the common idea between Wain and myself, mine being that you lose the puck at high speeds for pivot (like going 65% and above of max speed will cause puck loss) and his being that going into that animation severely limits your player balance and are more susceptible to being hit off of the puck.

    There are other available options, like giving d-men the ability to tie-up players more easily so that players skating backwards can't have a free run in your zone. We already have tie-up functions but they only work on players that are standing still. There's also the option of severely limiting a player's rotation/agility with the puck if they skate backwards with it. That way they wouldn't be able to just wiggle left/right and shrug off direct hits (or even glancing ones) anymore which would disrupt their forward progress.

    I mean, that's just my view on it. I do play as a fairly competent d-man when I'm not playing goalie and when I do I'm not the type to just skate around chasing the puck, going for the big hit or mashing poke check to try to get the puck back. I'll stay in position, try to force attackers to the boards and let them come to me. I try to play without the puck EVEN better than I do with the puck, essentially. Which is a very difficult skill to cultivate. I sometimes go entire games without even sniffing the puck, because I'm more concentrated on being in position than having the puck. I couldn't care less about my points or the stats at the end of the game. I just want to play the best I can and help my team. At the end of the game, if we win because I didn't let my opponent get a clear chance on our end, I'm happy.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    josepm777 wrote: »
    I agree 100%, some players seem like they are just LTing for the sake of it and going north to south, but if you have ever seen E-Sports 6s or top Hut/Versus players go head to head, there is no room on the ice. LTing in these types of games is used most effectively used to go east to west and hit dmen streaking, using the defense is essential to breaking a 5-0 trap especially in 6s and LT is an extremely useful tool to draw in a player then pass.

    There is no space on the ice because these so called "top players" refuse to cycle the puck properly. If they come up against a trapping team holding their blue line, they REFUSE to dump-n-chase to force the D to break their line. Rather than set up in the zone for possession, they try to look for a way to hold on the puck as long as possible looking to set up the easy cheese goal.

    There is even LESS space on the ice in a real hockey game, yet players of all levels, from amateur to pro, can cycle the puck and create space. The issue here is that the game, in its current state, allows for the easy way out by letting users abuse the mechanics.

    I'm glad something seems to be finally happening to tone down the ridiculous LT'ing. If it were up to me I would've nerfed it into the ground 2.5 years ago, but hey... better something late than nothing ever.

    That said I'm extremely disappointed there are no changes to the goalie engine (again). Then again, how am I even surprised at this point?

    Yea seems patience is the last thing players have while in this game. Every rush has to be to the net as fast as possible and just have to score right now.

    Agreed, in real life free ice and space is very hard to find. But by cycling the puck around properly, you get players moving and the more they move, the better chance they have of getting out of position and start to scramble. Scrambling causes mistakes which lead to scoring chances.

    But no, this would require at least 30 seconds to set up and that is much much too long in this game..... sigh.

    Why do you think dropins is such a mess? Simply because most people go chasing around everywhere and that leads to tons of open ice and scoring chances.

    Also, most forwards always revert to the same tactics and then complain D is OP..... How about realizing you're not that good of a forward if you are that predictable and defense has your number??

    Scoring off the rush is fun, but when you cant the enjoyment of the game should also entail you to wear down your opponent in their zone and scoring. This is where things like endurance, strength, aggressiveness, and poise should play a roll in player attributes. It would also make line changes more meaningful taking advantage of a tired line, or for rush chances, a tired D.

    Some basic form of realism
  • Have you fixed so the quebec alumni teams fans dont wear Colorado jerseys?
  • @NHLDev What about the issues with goalie in this game? The goalie teleporting off the post into the slot for one ..
  • What is this I hear about Snoop Dogg?? Lmao
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners
  • Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Dekes in hockey are, for the most part, used in 1 v 1 or when you're alone against the goalie, not to get around 5 players on the ice. LT is being used as a way to negate the defense by removing the effectiveness of their tools, like the poke, stick lift and hitting so that you can just hog the puck and penetrate the zone, or keep the puck in the corner waiting for the AI d-man to leave his post.

    If you're complaint is that by nerfing the LT you will no longer have any tools on offense, then perhaps the ones with "less skill" aren't those that are wanting it to get nerfed... The amount of tools the offense has to create offense is at least double what the defense has to negate it. This series has ALWAYS been about offense, offense, offense. The last thing this game needs is a way for the offense to be even MORE invulnerable.

    It's not even like you need it in this game anyways; goalies are SO BAD, you can just throw the puck on net and it goes in. Even on Superstar, the goalies are abysmally bad. You don't even need to get around the defense, just throw it on net and you'll score. No LT needed...
  • [quote="VeNOM2099;c-2105224"][quote="travishughes71;c-2105127"]Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners[/quote]

    Dekes in hockey are, for the most part, used in 1 v 1 or when you're alone against the goalie, not to get around 5 players on the ice. LT is being used as a way to negate the defense by removing the effectiveness of their tools, like the poke, stick lift and hitting so that you can just hog the puck and penetrate the zone, or keep the puck in the corner waiting for the AI d-man to leave his post.

    If you're complaint is that by nerfing the LT you will no longer have any tools on offense, then perhaps the ones with "less skill" aren't those that are wanting it to get nerfed... The amount of tools the offense has to create offense is at least double what the defense has to negate it. This series has ALWAYS been about offense, offense, offense. The last thing this game needs is a way for the offense to be even MORE invulnerable.

    It's not even like you need it in this game anyways; goalies are SO BAD, you can just throw the puck on net and it goes in. Even on Superstar, the goalies are abysmally bad. You don't even need to get around the defense, just throw it on net and you'll score. No LT needed... [/quote]
    Ok so when dekes effectively don’t work in 1v1 situations cause the deke system is effectively broken what then? You can’t put skate dmen that are way bigger then you pinching and bad positioning are rewarded now if you go back to my post I said you either make smaller builds faster you decrease the bumps or you change the deke system back those are non requirements of l2 but for your stand point you think it should be dump bump trap repeat yeaaa that makes for a really fun game doesn’t it? If someone running a chara like build is keeping up with someone who has a Tyler Johnson like Build obviously people need people feel the need to abuse l2 as far as goalies go yes they are noticeably worse then last year which is something I strongly disagree with I would rather be able to feel like I can beat people and have a tendy make a good save then have a dmen blow a coverage but yet still catch my smaller build I’m speaking of world of chel specifically if you know how hockey works you would see how broken this game is plus cr glitching is still in the game? Should prolly take care of that
  • johnny2fingaz
    322 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    josepm777 wrote: »
    I agree 100%, some players seem like they are just LTing for the sake of it and going north to south, but if you have ever seen E-Sports 6s or top Hut/Versus players go head to head, there is no room on the ice. LTing in these types of games is used most effectively used to go east to west and hit dmen streaking, using the defense is essential to breaking a 5-0 trap especially in 6s and LT is an extremely useful tool to draw in a player then pass.

    There is no space on the ice because these so called "top players" refuse to cycle the puck properly. If they come up against a trapping team holding their blue line, they REFUSE to dump-n-chase to force the D to break their line. Rather than set up in the zone for possession, they try to look for a way to hold on the puck as long as possible looking to set up the easy cheese goal.

    There is even LESS space on the ice in a real hockey game, yet players of all levels, from amateur to pro, can cycle the puck and create space. The issue here is that the game, in its current state, allows for the easy way out by letting users abuse the mechanics.

    I'm glad something seems to be finally happening to tone down the ridiculous LT'ing. If it were up to me I would've nerfed it into the ground 2.5 years ago, but hey... better something late than nothing ever.

    That said I'm extremely disappointed there are no changes to the goalie engine (again). Then again, how am I even surprised at this point?

    Yea seems patience is the last thing players have while in this game. Every rush has to be to the net as fast as possible and just have to score right now.

    Agreed, in real life free ice and space is very hard to find. But by cycling the puck around properly, you get players moving and the more they move, the better chance they have of getting out of position and start to scramble. Scrambling causes mistakes which lead to scoring chances.

    But no, this would require at least 30 seconds to set up and that is much much too long in this game..... sigh.

    Why do you think dropins is such a mess? Simply because most people go chasing around everywhere and that leads to tons of open ice and scoring chances.

    Also, most forwards always revert to the same tactics and then complain D is OP..... How about realizing you're not that good of a forward if you are that predictable and defense has your number??

    Scoring off the rush is fun, but when you cant the enjoyment of the game should also entail you to wear down your opponent in their zone and scoring. This is where things like endurance, strength, aggressiveness, and poise should play a roll in player attributes. It would also make line changes more meaningful taking advantage of a tired line, or for rush chances, a tired D.

    Some basic form of realism

    I totally agree and for once I feel like I can accomplish this. I can dump and grind , read plays, pick off pucks, defend against people who cycle behind the net, I've slowly been crawling the ranks in versus. At one point, before I understood how great incidental contact works to slow down and disrupt plays was, I got down to something like 480CR. Then I understood how great DSS is and started to climb. I'm currently st 749CR and climbing. Once you learn to see open ice, learn when to pass, even when to dump (changing lines is essential!) the game starts to feel like hockey. I win very tight games usually. I play high pressure defensive attack. And it really hampers the abilities of those players that like to take their sweet time in the Ozone. I put my player in a good spot and they turn around to my computer being right behind him! Very few of my opponents seem to adapt their styles. I played against an L2er a couple days ago. To seem them try to pull off those moves while I just post my player and my AI pressure him to move the puck while my opponent's brain breaks was a thing of beauty. And also a HUGE thanks to helping the AI cover the weak side. That was another source of greasy "auto goals." I remember previous years in this game and players could just walk in and shoot and score , as a defender you get useless. Now just by getting up there , and keeping good position you can keep those goals from happening. If they ever go in it feels flukey, just like real life. It's hockey: no night is perfect. Weird bounces happen. I just play my grinding defense first attitude. Focus on taking way my opponents path to the net while keeping his passing options to the outside. I use all three different line strategies (crash, overload and behind) depending on my opponent. I'm never predictable and I find that's when I do my best. When I slow down and skate to open ice before I pass. I keep most of my guys on their strong side. 95% of the time when I lose, I feel it's cuz 1) my team just couldn't buy a goal or 2) I made a dumb error on defence. The last time I felt cheesed was against a high 800+ guy abusing L2. It made his movement too unpredictable and unrealistic. Those days seem to be behind me. I hope!!
  • [quote="HoodHoppers;c-2105221"][quote="travishughes71;c-2105127"]Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners[/quote]

    Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you. [/quote]
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Here’s the issue when the dekes are effectively broken and don’t work with this games trash animations l2 or LT was an effective way to break dmen with the recent bump increase it was and the speed burst taken away as well as spamming it, it was pretty much effectively nerfed now with this you can hardly even use it which wouldn’t be an issue if we went back to the old deke system from nhl 17 or we increased speed on smaller builds there literally wouldn’t be a need for l2 now everyone is forced to play dump and bump offense and if the other team is remotely competent dump and bump won’t work either this game when it first game out was probably the best nhl sense 14 but the people who get dominated get there way nerf tendys to bad kids can score more nerf speed cause bad kids can’t play good D nerf l2 cause again bad kids can’t stop it when all you have to do is play the body on it and not be a cone congratulations EA you’ve made yet another good game awful with your tuners

    Dekes in hockey are, for the most part, used in 1 v 1 or when you're alone against the goalie, not to get around 5 players on the ice. LT is being used as a way to negate the defense by removing the effectiveness of their tools, like the poke, stick lift and hitting so that you can just hog the puck and penetrate the zone, or keep the puck in the corner waiting for the AI d-man to leave his post.

    If you're complaint is that by nerfing the LT you will no longer have any tools on offense, then perhaps the ones with "less skill" aren't those that are wanting it to get nerfed... The amount of tools the offense has to create offense is at least double what the defense has to negate it. This series has ALWAYS been about offense, offense, offense. The last thing this game needs is a way for the offense to be even MORE invulnerable.

    It's not even like you need it in this game anyways; goalies are SO BAD, you can just throw the puck on net and it goes in. Even on Superstar, the goalies are abysmally bad. You don't even need to get around the defense, just throw it on net and you'll score. No LT needed...
    Ok so when dekes effectively don’t work in 1v1 situations cause the deke system is effectively broken what then? You can’t put skate dmen that are way bigger then you pinching and bad positioning are rewarded now if you go back to my post I said you either make smaller builds faster you decrease the bumps or you change the deke system back those are non requirements of l2 but for your stand point you think it should be dump bump trap repeat yeaaa that makes for a really fun game doesn’t it? If someone running a chara like build is keeping up with someone who has a Tyler Johnson like Build obviously people need people feel the need to abuse l2 as far as goalies go yes they are noticeably worse then last year which is something I strongly disagree with I would rather be able to feel like I can beat people and have a tendy make a good save then have a dmen blow a coverage but yet still catch my smaller build I’m speaking of world of chel specifically if you know how hockey works you would see how broken this game is plus cr glitching is still in the game? Should prolly take care of that

    Dekes do work. Again, you have to do them when it's proper to do them. Not EVERY carry. Here;



    That's a clip the developer showed me higher up. Do you see any dekes? Any backskating with the puck? Crosby scores because his teammate saw he was open and passed to him. You can do the same in this game.

    "But If I pass, the defense intercepts it".

    See where I said "Pass to the OPEN man"? Just pass to the open man. Lanes are clogged? Look for another open man and cycle. Not EVERY pass has to be a forced through pass for a one timer attempt. Keep cycling and wait for your opportunities. That's how hockey is supposed to be played. This is not NBA basketball where it's constant up and down rush scoring. Be patient. There's three 20 minute periods to play. Shots on net don't always equal scoring chances. Scoring chances don't always result in shots on net.
    Did I say I couldn’t get around people? You are misunderstanding what I’m saying and I can tell most of you guys don’t know how LG works sense it’s a trap heavy league now being pass heavy would be more viable if the pass system actually worked properly but when people facing the complete opposite way and snag a puck from someone who is potentially about to score you can see where the issue is no?

    I've played in LG. And teams that complain about the trap are usually in the bottom of the rankings. The other ones manage to do just fine. There are ways to defeat the trap. If your teammates are lazy and just wanna skate through everybody with the puck? That's on them.

    I've played with teams that both complained about it and that found ways around it.

    But if you use LG to gauge your "skill levels", then your logic is flawed. Very few people in LG actually have what you can call "skill". Even fewer have an type of hockey sense at all. Like in every other aspect of this game, the top players there have always been those that could abuse the system to their advantage. Now that LT is semi-nerfed, let's see how "skilled" they are... Maybe you'll see other players take the top spots now, players that can actually play the game properly.
  • Kidnoff
    6 posts Member
    edited December 2019
    The stats of the goalie at the start of the game are completly bugged since the other patch (not this one, but the one before). And this patch don't fix it at all.

    And I didn't know Snoop Dogg came in the game. And honestly I would never buy this game if I knew hes coming. What the hell hes doing here in my favorite console game? I know hes close to EA, but for god sake! It's not one time, He is there during my game like one game on 3, it's just aweful. It was good to see him playing Battlefield for the release of the game and I don't care about seeing him play NHL for release and marketing stuff, but IN the game?

    I play NHL since NHL 97, and I have a console mainly for NHL and I swear to god I stop buying NHL and probably console if this guy stay in NHL games.

    Create a option to disable the purple thing with hes face on it during game and I can deal with the commentary (by turning off the sound).

    Oh my God, the resolution of the game is off since the release, we have no option for the scoreboard, a tons of bugs and IA problem like their damn pass in the back (even during a breakaway) and you just add a rapper in the game..... :|

    [Socair - edited for profanity]
    Post edited by Socair on


  • Really? Because they nerfed l2 you can't get around guys who go to hit you? Use that r1 and right stick. Keep your head up. If you needed l2, hockey ain't the sport for you. [/quote]
    Here is the truth!

    Saddest thing is we shouldt even be having this conversion. LT was broken mechanic and because ea refused to fix it all "skill" players just kept abusing it.
    Now after couple of years we are actually talking about if hockey is team sport with passing needed or solo ice dance.

  • In 2 years all my friends have stopped playing this game. This "hockey" we all Love as game and sport. This just aint it. We have played since - 97 and now im only one left Who byus game and gives it chance.
    Its just so god damn sad.
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