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NHL 20 Patch Details April 3rd

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NHL 20 Gameplay Discussion

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  • What about a progression system? Like the one you have in BAP? also the stick flex, curve of the blade, as well at skate blade size, like you had back in 14? Personally I'd like to see those come back, it gives me reason to try to improve and play better, whereas these preset built classes get boring imo.

    For eashl or drop ins**
  • jrago73
    463 posts Member
    edited January 22
    What about a progression system? Like the one you have in BAP? also the stick flex, curve of the blade, as well at skate blade size, like you had back in 14? Personally I'd like to see those come back, it gives me reason to try to improve and play better, whereas these preset built classes get boring imo.

    For eashl or drop ins**

    Won't happen. People were mad thinking their builds were the reason they weren't any good. Once tomorrow hits you'll see a lot of people opposing this. I'm for it though, I'd take it over donut jerseys any day.
    [Socair - edited swear filter]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • FloundinatorQQ
    79 posts Member
    edited January 22
    jrago73 wrote: »
    What about a progression system? Like the one you have in BAP? also the stick flex, curve of the blade, as well at skate blade size, like you had back in 14? Personally I'd like to see those come back, it gives me reason to try to improve and play better, whereas these preset built classes get boring imo.

    For eashl or drop ins**

    Won't happen. People were mad thinking their builds were the reason they weren't any good. Once tomorrow hits you'll see a lot of people opposing this. I'm for it though, I'd take it over donut jerseys any day.
    [Socair - edited quote]

    Definitely takes the drive and want to actually improve imo, keep prebuilt classes in an unranked lobby, bring back ranked lobbies with a progression system, let the scrubs play in the unranked lobbies.. Lol
    Post edited by Socair on
  • This game over the last years has been absolutely trash. Im so over this being the only NHL game on the market. EA gas no idea how hockey is played. I would love them to bring in a few pro players and show them a sim game and theyll easily point out dozens of issues with the AI alone. Thats not including menu lag, glitches that have been in game for years, servers being hot trash etc. EA should be ashamed of the product they put out every year. You literally just change the year and the athlete on the cover and call it a day. Start listening to the people who play the game instead of just guessing and adding stupid game modes no one wants or asked for. Fix the core issues. Quite being a greedy money hungry corporation and start fixing things and you may be surprised how many more people would buy the game.
  • EA_Aljo
    1468 posts EA Community Manager
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »

    In the first video, it looks like your player turns and the stick makes incidental contact with their skates which knocks the puck loose and is able to be picked up easily.

    Oh yeah, the CPU player is already gone skates and all, and his stick is nowhere nearby, yet the puck just magically is pushed to him? At that point I only tried to move to the opposite direction, making nothing with my right stick, and still my stick is just pushed by some invisible force towards the CPU player. Or more like the puck is moved there, and my stick just follows it, until the puck is out of my reach. That is some messed up stuff, man.
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    In the second video there's incidental contact that dislodges the puck and enables him to pick it up easy.

    Incidental or not, notice how the CPU player just picks up the puck from me with ONE hand, and then proceeds to move the stick with the puck through my legs without any problems... nice?
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I understand the incidental contact can be frustrating, but we also want the puck clipping through objects to happen as infrequently as possible. It wouldn't be good to have the puck ignoring contact and remaining with the carrier as if they never touched it.

    Yet in the second video you have no problem with the stick going though my player's legs and staying glued to the CPU player's stick? What?

    How can you even try to defend this?

    When his stick passes through the legs, he's not possessing the puck. He makes contact with the puck and pushes it to a position it can be picked up. We've said many times it is intended that the stick passes through bodies, but it won't affect the puck when doing so. He makes contact before the stick passes through the body and keeps moving in the direction it was headed. Had this been real hockey, the player would have moved their stick out of the way to avoid the player, but that's not really possible in this game currently as you don't have the same fidelity when using a game controller. The puck wasn't glued to his stick. If he had possession, you'd see the indicator above his head active.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1262 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Here's another example, how sticks and puck going through sticks and legs completely ruin the gameplay:



    I mean, this situation would have ended in the first poke since Jagr wouldn't have been able to continue, as his stick is on the other side from my player's body. But at least the puck hits my skate, and doesn't go through it... then in the next moment, I poke the puck away again, and this time CPU jagr just snatches it behind him and brings it through my other player's legs. I know Jagr has magical hands, but come on.

    This kind of thing should simply not happen. Especially as sticks going through bodies seem completely unpredictable, does it happen with the puck, without it, or just all the time when the 'drama' requires it?

    I know one dev rep discussed this thing last year, I seem to recall him saying something like they decided to give up fully physical sticks since it 'wasn't fun'... or something to that effect. You call this fun?

    I says it ruins this game. Well, this along with some other things. In any other game this would be called a bug, and it would be fixed. But in NHL it seems to be a feature more than anything?
  • EA_Aljo
    1468 posts EA Community Manager
    This game over the last years has been absolutely trash. Im so over this being the only NHL game on the market. EA gas no idea how hockey is played. I would love them to bring in a few pro players and show them a sim game and theyll easily point out dozens of issues with the AI alone. Thats not including menu lag, glitches that have been in game for years, servers being hot trash etc. EA should be ashamed of the product they put out every year. You literally just change the year and the athlete on the cover and call it a day. Start listening to the people who play the game instead of just guessing and adding stupid game modes no one wants or asked for. Fix the core issues. Quite being a greedy money hungry corporation and start fixing things and you may be surprised how many more people would buy the game.

    Those modes you feel nobody wants have been very popular.

    As far as servers go, there are many variables involved. If you're very frequently facing lag or disconnects, contact our support so they can help with troubleshooting. The majority of people are playing without lag so we need to go through individual troubleshooting to find out what's going on.

    I don't see how you can say all we do is change the cover. Every year there are changes based on community feedback. There are new modes and/or updates to existing modes. In the last couple of years, gameplay has changed significantly. There have been more changes to modes outside of HUT than with HUT itself. Those are also modes with no way to spend anything extra.

    What would you change exactly? We always appreciate feedback, but you really didn't provide anything that's of any use. If you feel you're not being heard, give us some details. There's been some excellent feedback in this thread that is seen by the people that make the game. You can make your voice count when you provide constructive feedback instead of blanket statements and ranting.
  • PlayoffError
    251 posts Member
    edited January 22
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    When his stick passes through the legs, he's not possessing the puck. He makes contact with the puck and pushes it to a position it can be picked up. We've said many times it is intended that the stick passes through bodies, but it won't affect the puck when doing so. He makes contact before the stick passes through the body and keeps moving in the direction it was headed. Had this been real hockey, the player would have moved their stick out of the way to avoid the player, but that's not really possible in this game currently as you don't have the same fidelity when using a game controller. The puck wasn't glued to his stick. If he had possession, you'd see the indicator above his head active.

    This is where you're losing a lot of people. When the offensive player can drag their stick through their opponent, keeping it within a couple of inches of the puck the whole time and then immediately gain full possession at the other end, for all intents and purposes they've maintained possession for the entire action. You're correct that they technically lost possession for a split second, but arguing that point given the full effect of the action makes you guys look pedantic or oblivious ( which I don't think is the case ). Basically you're giving the impression that being technically correct ( the best kind of correct ) is more important than the play as a whole.

    In the clip in question and other similar plays you're right that in real life the offensive player would attempt to move their stick around the defender to regain the puck. The problem with that argument is that in real life the attempt to move the stick around the defender would be much more difficult given that the defender would be able to use their body and stick to block the movement. Also the puck wouldn't immediately be back on the offensive player's stick, they'd have to "find" it again which would take time as well. Essentially they're getting all the benefits of a deke without the risk of losing the puck which just looks wrong to a lot of people playing the game.

    One potential fix ( that admittedly may be harder than it sounds ) would be to vastly increase the time it takes for a player to gain possession of a puck after clipping their stick though an opponent.


  • EA_Aljo
    1468 posts EA Community Manager
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Here's another example, how sticks and puck going through sticks and legs completely ruin the gameplay:



    I mean, this situation would have ended in the first poke since Jagr wouldn't have been able to continue, as his stick is on the other side from my player's body. But at least the puck hits my skate, and doesn't go through it... then in the next moment, I poke the puck away again, and this time CPU jagr just snatches it behind him and brings it through my other player's legs. I know Jagr has magical hands, but come on.

    This kind of thing should simply not happen. Especially as sticks going through bodies seem completely unpredictable, does it happen with the puck, without it, or just all the time when the 'drama' requires it?

    I know one dev rep discussed this thing last year, I seem to recall him saying something like they decided to give up fully physical sticks since it 'wasn't fun'... or something to that effect. You call this fun?

    I says it ruins this game. Well, this along with some other things. In any other game this would be called a bug, and it would be fixed. But in NHL it seems to be a feature more than anything?

    Sticks don't pass through bodies when drama requires it.

    I definitely understand the frustration with sticks passing through bodies. If they didn't, sticks would be getting dropped or tangled up on equipment/players and would make for a pretty annoying experience. In this video, the initial poke from Subban knocks the puck loose. He then skates through the stick and hits the puck with his skate. If Jagr's stick reacted to Subban skating into it, chances are still good the same result would have happened with him kicking the puck. In the next play, Jagr picks up the puck and moves it around the defender. His stick passes through Kane's legs, but makes contact with the puck first. Had Kane's legs pushed Jagr's stick back, he probably would have still recovered enough to pick up the puck. That or he would have dropped his stick or had it tangled up in the legs of the defenders.

    If this were more of a sim, you'd see the flow of the game interrupted while players were untangling themselves and picking up dropped sticks. Is that preferable to not being able to play the puck while your stick passes through a player? Consider just how much that happens in a game. Would you rather have more realism with less control of the puck preferred to sticks passing through players and only affecting the puck when it's clear of limbs/objects?
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1262 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Yes, 'flow of the game' - that's precisely why this game fails so bad. You force certain things to happen for dramatic effect, hence Jagr must be able to waltz through sticks and legs. That's why rebounds almost always go to the opponent instead of the boards, and so on. The flow of the game.

    Why should the game flow in this situation since I had effectively corralled the CPU player towards the boards, and then effectively poked the puck, not once but twice? He really didn't have anywhere to go?

    This is one of the many things that make this game unsatisfactory, and you feel cheated when you see stuff like this. You do all the right things, and you're still shafted, because 'da flow'. Maybe you should stop worrying about the flow, and just make a better game. Let us worry about the flow, ok?

    "Why you heff to be mad, it's only a game", right?

  • Hitting/forchecking needs to be looked at again.. Why is it when we go to forechecking, it almost impossible to bump someone off the puck, no matter how much you Harass them when the have the puck, yet when you just get incidentally ran into, you lose the puck 9 times out of 10...quite baffling to me..
    Also hitting needs to not be so nerfed, hitting in 14 was good, imo, yes granted you had 95% of the community saying hitting was op, and then they were getting laid out. So you decided to Nerf the crap out of hitting, making it almost impossible to lay on a decent hit to change momentum in a game. Well the 95% of the people getting laid out, were skating in a straight line and deserved to get laid out.
    Forechecking and trying to knock people off the puck used to be my game styles, until it became nearly impossible to do that anymore. Now there has been a bubble around every player, when you go in for what should be a decent hit, it's like putting 2 like sides of a magnet together and you just go around them.... Why? Please stop changing the game for players that don't understand it and only know a N to S style game. Not everyone is supposed to be evenly matched, if they were you wouldn't have bad hockey teams in real life... Bring back a competitive side of eashl and drop ins.as of now I don't feel like there is much if it..
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Here's another example, how sticks and puck going through sticks and legs completely ruin the gameplay:



    I mean, this situation would have ended in the first poke since Jagr wouldn't have been able to continue, as his stick is on the other side from my player's body. But at least the puck hits my skate, and doesn't go through it... then in the next moment, I poke the puck away again, and this time CPU jagr just snatches it behind him and brings it through my other player's legs. I know Jagr has magical hands, but come on.

    This kind of thing should simply not happen. Especially as sticks going through bodies seem completely unpredictable, does it happen with the puck, without it, or just all the time when the 'drama' requires it?

    I know one dev rep discussed this thing last year, I seem to recall him saying something like they decided to give up fully physical sticks since it 'wasn't fun'... or something to that effect. You call this fun?

    I says it ruins this game. Well, this along with some other things. In any other game this would be called a bug, and it would be fixed. But in NHL it seems to be a feature more than anything?

    Sticks don't pass through bodies when drama requires it.

    I definitely understand the frustration with sticks passing through bodies. If they didn't, sticks would be getting dropped or tangled up on equipment/players and would make for a pretty annoying experience. In this video, the initial poke from Subban knocks the puck loose. He then skates through the stick and hits the puck with his skate. If Jagr's stick reacted to Subban skating into it, chances are still good the same result would have happened with him kicking the puck. In the next play, Jagr picks up the puck and moves it around the defender. His stick passes through Kane's legs, but makes contact with the puck first. Had Kane's legs pushed Jagr's stick back, he probably would have still recovered enough to pick up the puck. That or he would have dropped his stick or had it tangled up in the legs of the defenders.

    If this were more of a sim, you'd see the flow of the game interrupted while players were untangling themselves and picking up dropped sticks. Is that preferable to not being able to play the puck while your stick passes through a player? Consider just how much that happens in a game. Would you rather have more realism with less control of the puck preferred to sticks passing through players and only affecting the puck when it's clear of limbs/objects?

    YES I WOULD!!!

    Also it be nice to be able to get pucks off of guys when you're behind them and they have their back to you at slow speeds around the boards. I'd love it if it were easier to get tangled up
  • B2BRYAN
    1 posts New member
    Help out us Defensive Defenseman with a bit better offensive abilities as they are really bad. Also tone down the charging calls. Its tough to track down a 5 foot 7 dangler boosting down the wing and you have to anticipate where hes going and get a head start on him and its very frusttating to get the hit and the charging call. Big hits are fun and there are no CTE in video games so let us big dogs eat who play a stay at home D role.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Here's another example, how sticks and puck going through sticks and legs completely ruin the gameplay:



    I mean, this situation would have ended in the first poke since Jagr wouldn't have been able to continue, as his stick is on the other side from my player's body. But at least the puck hits my skate, and doesn't go through it... then in the next moment, I poke the puck away again, and this time CPU jagr just snatches it behind him and brings it through my other player's legs. I know Jagr has magical hands, but come on.

    This kind of thing should simply not happen. Especially as sticks going through bodies seem completely unpredictable, does it happen with the puck, without it, or just all the time when the 'drama' requires it?

    I know one dev rep discussed this thing last year, I seem to recall him saying something like they decided to give up fully physical sticks since it 'wasn't fun'... or something to that effect. You call this fun?

    I says it ruins this game. Well, this along with some other things. In any other game this would be called a bug, and it would be fixed. But in NHL it seems to be a feature more than anything?

    Sticks don't pass through bodies when drama requires it.

    I definitely understand the frustration with sticks passing through bodies. If they didn't, sticks would be getting dropped or tangled up on equipment/players and would make for a pretty annoying experience. In this video, the initial poke from Subban knocks the puck loose. He then skates through the stick and hits the puck with his skate. If Jagr's stick reacted to Subban skating into it, chances are still good the same result would have happened with him kicking the puck. In the next play, Jagr picks up the puck and moves it around the defender. His stick passes through Kane's legs, but makes contact with the puck first. Had Kane's legs pushed Jagr's stick back, he probably would have still recovered enough to pick up the puck. That or he would have dropped his stick or had it tangled up in the legs of the defenders.

    If this were more of a sim, you'd see the flow of the game interrupted while players were untangling themselves and picking up dropped sticks. Is that preferable to not being able to play the puck while your stick passes through a player? Consider just how much that happens in a game. Would you rather have more realism with less control of the puck preferred to sticks passing through players and only affecting the puck when it's clear of limbs/objects?

    While technically, you are correct. If you analyze everything frame by frame, yea, there's definitely a way to explain it to give it some sense. However, plays like that are what cheapens the experience and makes players fee like the game is biased. Why didn't the defender kick the puck to his stick in that scenario? Seems like there was time for that animation before a 2nd poke check was requested. What decides who regains possession? Seems to me like the defender kicking it to himself is easier to pull off than Jagr having to do 3 tiny magic tricks with his stick... Yet, it is the attacker that regains possession.

    Being technically correct is one thing. But how it affects the overall experience or perception is entirely a different thing. Too many things feel forced or cheapened for the sake of "flow". And that is what I think the majority of the people that complain are complaining about. They, and myself, don't like the general feel of the game. Why body checks seem harder to pull off than necessary because either there's a player bubble, or he is in an animation with another player, or simply curls his stick behind his back to negate physical play. Puck intercepts are an entirely new beast and that should have been corrected over a month ago. As a defender, I hate it beyond reason and yet it helps me do my job. Imagine that, it makes my job easier and yet, I hate it. I will not accept "help" or be rewarded by something that has no business in the game.
  • EA_Aljo
    1468 posts EA Community Manager

    While technically, you are correct. If you analyze everything frame by frame, yea, there's definitely a way to explain it to give it some sense. However, plays like that are what cheapens the experience and makes players fee like the game is biased. Why didn't the defender kick the puck to his stick in that scenario? Seems like there was time for that animation before a 2nd poke check was requested. What decides who regains possession? Seems to me like the defender kicking it to himself is easier to pull off than Jagr having to do 3 tiny magic tricks with his stick... Yet, it is the attacker that regains possession.

    Being technically correct is one thing. But how it affects the overall experience or perception is entirely a different thing. Too many things feel forced or cheapened for the sake of "flow". And that is what I think the majority of the people that complain are complaining about. They, and myself, don't like the general feel of the game. Why body checks seem harder to pull off than necessary because either there's a player bubble, or he is in an animation with another player, or simply curls his stick behind his back to negate physical play. Puck intercepts are an entirely new beast and that should have been corrected over a month ago. As a defender, I hate it beyond reason and yet it helps me do my job. Imagine that, it makes my job easier and yet, I hate it. I will not accept "help" or be rewarded by something that has no business in the game.

    It's also very easy to feel like there's more time than there is when replays are in slow motion. It's quite possible he wouldn't have been able to react in time to kick the puck to his stick. Also, it looks like he still has DSS engaged. As far as who regains possession goes, player ratings and positioning are a part of that. NHLDev could give better details on that.

    You can still hit players pulling their stick back to protect the puck. You need to hit them at a better angle. They aren't immune because they pull their stick back, but it can help put them in a better position to not take the full force of the hit. There is no bubble around them.

    I know intercepts are something the dev team is aware of. It's possible we'll see adjustments there.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited January 23
    EA_Aljo wrote: »

    While technically, you are correct. If you analyze everything frame by frame, yea, there's definitely a way to explain it to give it some sense. However, plays like that are what cheapens the experience and makes players fee like the game is biased. Why didn't the defender kick the puck to his stick in that scenario? Seems like there was time for that animation before a 2nd poke check was requested. What decides who regains possession? Seems to me like the defender kicking it to himself is easier to pull off than Jagr having to do 3 tiny magic tricks with his stick... Yet, it is the attacker that regains possession.

    Being technically correct is one thing. But how it affects the overall experience or perception is entirely a different thing. Too many things feel forced or cheapened for the sake of "flow". And that is what I think the majority of the people that complain are complaining about. They, and myself, don't like the general feel of the game. Why body checks seem harder to pull off than necessary because either there's a player bubble, or he is in an animation with another player, or simply curls his stick behind his back to negate physical play. Puck intercepts are an entirely new beast and that should have been corrected over a month ago. As a defender, I hate it beyond reason and yet it helps me do my job. Imagine that, it makes my job easier and yet, I hate it. I will not accept "help" or be rewarded by something that has no business in the game.

    It's also very easy to feel like there's more time than there is when replays are in slow motion. It's quite possible he wouldn't have been able to react in time to kick the puck to his stick. Also, it looks like he still has DSS engaged. As far as who regains possession goes, player ratings and positioning are a part of that. NHLDev could give better details on that.

    You can still hit players pulling their stick back to protect the puck. You need to hit them at a better angle. They aren't immune because they pull their stick back, but it can help put them in a better position to not take the full force of the hit. There is no bubble around them.

    I know intercepts are something the dev team is aware of. It's possible we'll see adjustments there.

    Um, go to your local rink, stand straight with both your skates facing forward. Now pull your stick as far back behind you as you can while only rotating your upper body. Stick is behind you, and your 2 skates are still facing forward.

    Now ask someone there to give you a gentle but firm check from your front, and let me know how fast you fall down.

    Now, in this game, you not only don't fall down, you actually retain complete control of a puck that seems magnetized to the stick.

    Yea, sure it is possible to plow a player curling his stick, but that's the problem. You actually have to plow him as if you're on 'roid rage. If that player is down low and skating slowly and you are not in a position to come in with half decent momentum, your hit will be negated. Pure and simple.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »

    While technically, you are correct. If you analyze everything frame by frame, yea, there's definitely a way to explain it to give it some sense. However, plays like that are what cheapens the experience and makes players fee like the game is biased. Why didn't the defender kick the puck to his stick in that scenario? Seems like there was time for that animation before a 2nd poke check was requested. What decides who regains possession? Seems to me like the defender kicking it to himself is easier to pull off than Jagr having to do 3 tiny magic tricks with his stick... Yet, it is the attacker that regains possession.

    Being technically correct is one thing. But how it affects the overall experience or perception is entirely a different thing. Too many things feel forced or cheapened for the sake of "flow". And that is what I think the majority of the people that complain are complaining about. They, and myself, don't like the general feel of the game. Why body checks seem harder to pull off than necessary because either there's a player bubble, or he is in an animation with another player, or simply curls his stick behind his back to negate physical play. Puck intercepts are an entirely new beast and that should have been corrected over a month ago. As a defender, I hate it beyond reason and yet it helps me do my job. Imagine that, it makes my job easier and yet, I hate it. I will not accept "help" or be rewarded by something that has no business in the game.

    It's also very easy to feel like there's more time than there is when replays are in slow motion. It's quite possible he wouldn't have been able to react in time to kick the puck to his stick. Also, it looks like he still has DSS engaged. As far as who regains possession goes, player ratings and positioning are a part of that. NHLDev could give better details on that.

    You can still hit players pulling their stick back to protect the puck. You need to hit them at a better angle. They aren't immune because they pull their stick back, but it can help put them in a better position to not take the full force of the hit. There is no bubble around them.

    I know intercepts are something the dev team is aware of. It's possible we'll see adjustments there.

    Um, go to your local rink, stand straight with both your skates facing forward. Now pull your stick as far back behind you as you can while only rotating your upper body. Stick is behind you, and your 2 skates are still facing forward.

    Now ask someone there to give you a gentle but firm check from your front, and let me know how fast you fall down.

    Now, in this game, you not only fall don't down, you actually retain complete control of a puck that seems magnetized to the stick.

    Yea, sure it is possible to plow a player curling his stick, but that's the problem. You actually have to plow him as if you're on 'roid rage. If that player is down low and skating slowly and you are not in a position to come in with half decent momentum, your hit will be negated. Pure and simple.

    Exactly. It'd be nice at the. Try least players getting tangled up

  • ....Being technically correct is one thing. But how it affects the overall experience or perception is entirely a different thing. Too many things feel forced or cheapened for the sake of "flow". And that is what I think the majority of the people that complain are complaining about. They, and myself, don't like the general feel of the game. Why body checks seem harder to pull off than necessary because either there's a player bubble, or he is in an animation with another player, or simply curls his stick behind his back to negate physical play. Puck intercepts are an entirely new beast and that should have been corrected over a month ago. As a defender, I hate it beyond reason and yet it helps me do my job. Imagine that, it makes my job easier and yet, I hate it. I will not accept "help" or be rewarded by something that has no business in the game.

    This has been my biggest pet peeve with the game. Too many things feel "forced" instead of letting things happen organically. It feels as though they are trying to recreate the exciting feel of one hockey game in every single game.

    AI scores in last few minutes of a game? Check.
    Made a bad pass that leads to a goal? Check.
    Winning by a few goals, but the opposing AI suddenly comes back to make it close? Check.
    Winning by a few goals and your players start to skate in mud? Check.
    Bad pass leads to a comeback goal? Check.
    AI has a breakaway and can't be stopped? Check.
    AI has amazing and extremely fast passing and puck movement? Check.

    I can pretty much expect to experience these things in every single game I play. Can I provide video? Sure can. Will I? What's the point? The community has and continues to provide video evidence throughout the years and even now. It's a constant rinse and repeat with EA.

    I've had to take a break from this game because I just couldn't take the fact when playing position lock over 4 straight games, the CPU had a total 20+ power plays to my 5. Penalty issue? Yup. Reported this year and previous years. Fixed? Nope.


  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Here's another example, how sticks and puck going through sticks and legs completely ruin the gameplay:



    I mean, this situation would have ended in the first poke since Jagr wouldn't have been able to continue, as his stick is on the other side from my player's body. But at least the puck hits my skate, and doesn't go through it... then in the next moment, I poke the puck away again, and this time CPU jagr just snatches it behind him and brings it through my other player's legs. I know Jagr has magical hands, but come on.

    This kind of thing should simply not happen. Especially as sticks going through bodies seem completely unpredictable, does it happen with the puck, without it, or just all the time when the 'drama' requires it?

    I know one dev rep discussed this thing last year, I seem to recall him saying something like they decided to give up fully physical sticks since it 'wasn't fun'... or something to that effect. You call this fun?

    I says it ruins this game. Well, this along with some other things. In any other game this would be called a bug, and it would be fixed. But in NHL it seems to be a feature more than anything?

    The only thing that doesn't happen in this clip is the stick being stopped by the physical objects it collides with. When you are saying that Jagr couldn't have got to the puck again, you are not considering that they could have manipulated their arms/wrists and stick to move it after contact to get by.

    Stick on stick has a lower recovery time than stick on body for this reason as on average, it would take more to pull your stick around a body than to avoid a stick that itself would also have more give if reacting in physics. From a pure videogame balance standpoint it makes sense as well. Colliding with a body is a bigger mistake than an outstretched stick so regardless of what we are doing to replicate the impacts of the puck having to come loose and what a player would have to do to recover and regain control, it makes sense from a videogame balance perspective as well; especially when you consider those recovery times are also factored by a players attributes for player differentiation.

    In the first incidental stick on stick contact, the puck is free as it simulates Jagr's stick being disrupted by the poke that collides with it. If his stick was moved out towards the boards, he would then have his stick blade closer to the boards and would then be able to slide his stick behind or up and over Subban to avoid his body in his recover to get back to the puck. In this case, even with that, he was still unable to pick the puck back up and the puck just incidentally collides with the stick.

    He gets the loose puck back and Subban makes another good clean poke. Jagr's ability to respond after puck loss will be quicker as a skilled player so some would be slower to even attempt picking up that puck behind them. The stick on stick contact of the players negates both of them from being able to pickup cleanly and the puck stays loose. Jagr then has to wait to 'recover again from the stick on stick/body contact before they can pickup again. In a real world scenario, they would have had to relax their arm and pull their stick through. Even though we don't see this physically happen, it isn't out of the question that they could have slid their stick past the opponent to get back into a position to pickup that puck.

    We have talked about stick on stick or stick on body actually slowing a player down a bit as well but it is arguable that with unique limb control a player could keep moving and relax their arms and stick to bring it around/through without it slowing their overall progress too much. They do obviously need to lose the puck and let go of it though when their stick would have to move away from the stick or body to avoid or react to that contact though.

    We always want to improve things like this but we need to ensure that going after more realism doesn't actually make things less realistic as well and the complexity of handling the stick in physics and the avoidance needed to not stifle things worse than what is actually realistic is what holds us back. It isn't about worrying that it won't be fun. It is about ensuring that the end result still simulates what would happen, thus the explanation above around what we are trying to do with the current tech available. I do believe without the stick in physics we can still have the result of who has control of the puck and the reaction time and recovery time pieces, it can still simulate that decently (there is subjectivity on if our delays and recoveries are too quick and we always look at results and tuning around those pieces) and if in future we can have the visuals and how the bodies and sticks react catch up to that, we will certainly look to do it.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1262 posts Member
    edited January 24
    Eh if I understand that complex explanation correctly, what you're saying is that since you can't simulate 'unique limb control', you will allow something IMPOSSIBLE to happen as compensation? Because it would have ended with the same result anyways?

    What about the 'unique limb control' of my defender Subban? He's got none, I expect? Because you always look things from the point of the offence, how things should 'flow' towards one side scoring - hey it's the purpose of the game right, to score and chel? Goalies and d-men are just pylons for the real heroes.

    What a load of cobblers, in real life Subban would just prevented Jagr from moving after the puck, with HIS limb control or just with his body, I don't care how Jagr could turns his stick or wrists. He was separated from the puck, period. Anything Jagr could do with his stick, Subban could counter. Except in this game.

    This all happened so quick, that with my slow reactions I didn't actually tie Jagr against the board. But I expect if I had, then it would have been a penalty, since at that point he wouldn't have got the puck?

    Twist any way you like, I think I should have been rewarded in that situation, I used one of the limited tools I have for defence TWICE, and arguably Jagr did nothing except automatically slip his stick TWICE through my legs? This just shouldn't happen, and it's NOT because your game can't simulate stick control properly. Whatever happens, IMPOSSIBLE things should not take place. Because this takes away credibility of the game.

    Granted, we're still talking about CPU player behaviour, and as we know they almost always do things perfectly, and retain puck even in situations where dont actually do nothing.

    I don't think a human player would have fared as well, but then again he MIGHT have. Because these things just happen, right? How many times have we seen a player just walz through three players, their sticks and legs like it was nothing. They dont' deke, or eve wriggle, they just push through and have success. And then you go WHAT THE....! and throw your pad against the wall hard. Been there, although my controllers are all intact.
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