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Just not good enough

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rsandersr47
186 posts Member
edited February 2020
I'd like to think I'm a pretty good player. I consistently beat or outplay most humans I come across (I don't play league, I'm sure I may not be real good there) but I will NEVER be as good as the CPU in WoC. I just can't beat them. I may hang the skates up after this game. I'm just not good enough to play that mode and it's the only mode I enjoy. I get to around 1200 CR in threes and 2 guys with 400 and a CPU will beat my friends and I. The CPU will net 4 goals from places that I've never scored all while stopping any cross crease we attempt.

In Eashl we often have a hard time finding club games so 2-4 of us will jump in drop-in. It will start 6v6 if you score first their goalie quits.. now you're at a huge disadvantage as yours is still there.. there are teams now that will allow the other team to score or purposefully score on their own goalie so he quits. If you actually get into a game with 2cpu goalies you still have to hop the other players stay in the game because time and time and time again being up 6-0 with a team of guys around ~800CR is NOT safe when playing 3 CPU skaters no matter how bad the other team is. I hate people who rag the puck, I hate people who hide behind the net, I hate people who kill clock but I'm starting to get it.. this is what we're probably supposed to do. This is the only way I see many people find an advantage when playing these computers. I can't find open lanes to pass or even shoot when they're reading my button presses on the fly. We had 4 goals scored on us within 3 in game minutes the other day and I've not been able to play since, I just shut the game off and completely lost interest. I'm just not good enough to play this mode and I don't know how many people are.

The few people who I know can win vs CPU are raggers and exploiters. I am asking ANYONE to show videos of how they play this game legit and can beat CPU teams. I see people on these forums saying they're not good and you can beat them if you know how they play but I've not figured it out after a few years. I understand they position stupid but apart from that they're so good at everything else it makes the game unplayable for someone who is apparently not good enough. Can you allow us to quit games and not lose cr if we're winning or if they lose so many players, or a team HAS to have at least 4 humans in 6s and 3 in both threes and 3s? If the other team has 2 humans esp. after 1 period I'm gonna lose. There's almost no question about it the only games I EVER lose in threes is vs CPU teams (usually a mascot because their reach is high on top of being so good) I can say the same for any other top players. CPU on bad teams also seem to play FAR better. I'm just so confused as to how to how CPU's with bad positioning and SUPER human abilities is good for the game. It has half of my friends hating the community that rags and the other half suggesting we hide behind the net when they have a bunch of CPU's so we have a chance to win.

Replies

  • Honestly I definitely agree with you. Played a game today and our team was getting wrecked until a couple guys left and then all of a sudden we dominated. They can make some extremely quick plays so if you're aware of this you can do things like cheating the zone and get some great stretch passes. Also I find their shooting accuracy is pretty ridiculous as well. I played with a grinder today and I look as if I have a 70 shot. Looks actually realistic (for accuracy anyways, the shot speed is actually slow), but when goalies reaction saves are pretty hyped up in certain situations then my shot doesn't even look like it's in the same league as the computers.

    They're fantastic in some areas and weak in others. Overall, extremely tough to beat if a team is loaded with them for sure. They make some unbelievable plays sometimes.
  • I'll put it in plain english. CPUs are overall annoying because they have huge programming "gaps" that make them look like useless pylons at times. But you know who is worse than a CPU? 90% of drop in players.

    So yes, often when decent players are on bad teams (if playing solo thats again probably 90% of the time).
    and they are lucky enough to have those really bad players start dropping and get replaced by CPU, the team gets better. You may even start winning because the other team stays and is full of what? oh yeah bad drop in players. They may have been better than your team mates that dropped but they are likely still not that great.

    The CPU players can, in certain moments, do amazing things. but overall they are weak compared to a human player that knows what they are doing. And the more of them you have the better they will play.

    If bad players want to learn how to play better, just play a drop in game with all CPUs on your side besides yourself and concentrate only on moving without the puck, getting open to create outlets for the CPU or being in the right spot to pick up a turnover here or there or rebound. basically play unselfishly. watch the way the ice opens up as you dominate the puck. Left and right wide open passing lanes and scoring chances will appear. I've had so many games where everyone blamed the goalie, everyone else drops after giving up 4-5 goals. But i see its just bad offense leading to turnovers and bad defense leading to easy goals. i decide to stay with just the goalie, maybe one other player or so. come back to win easily.

    CPU does well in certain situations. Terrible on the rush, decent once you get the puck in the zone and set up a cycle. On defense they are terrible against the rush but decent at zone defense. So control the puck, dont force things move the puck, move without the puck, create space and wait for things to open up. To rush things and do what you can to prevent easy rushes against you and CPU is ok. Of course humans could do this but better ... but most drop in players are just lost.

    contrary to popular opinions here this game does NOT reward selfish play as much as some would have you believe. teams that work well together as a team absolutely dominate those that don't. it may not always look like typical hockey "unselfish" play but its definitely geared towards playing as a team.
  • Story of my life. 95% of my losses are against a team of AI after we go up 2-4 goals and they all quit. It is super frustrating. Some nights it is literally every single game you find yourself against a team of AI due to early quitters and insane AI replacements. It really does become a defensive hold the lead battle for like 2 periods. If you have a stubborn human G that sucks and refuses to quit as well, a definite loss is coming your way.
  • And then of course you lose 24 CR to a team of AI in a game that you should have won. Then you need a 15-20 game win streak just to get that CR back.

    CR needs to be removed or overhauled.
  • And then of course you lose 24 CR to a team of AI in a game that you should have won. Then you need a 15-20 game win streak just to get that CR back.

    CR needs to be removed or overhauled.

    i agree it needs to be overhauled/fixed.

    but can't get rid of it. only possible way to rank players and they need to start utilizing those rankings properly.

    quite a few ways i would fix CR system. don't want to derail this post though ... some frown upon that.
  • I'd tell the OP to just spend some time playing offline against the AI on all-star or superstar. You'll get a feel for what they are capable of, which isn't anything special. The best tool the AI has going for it is that on the harder difficulty levels their reaction times are insanely fast. Much faster than a human's. But their decision making is somewhere between a one celled amebae and manhole cover... And that's where you beat them.

    As for the CR issue, it should be dolled out based on your play, not win/loss ratio. Or at least very little should be based on whether you win or lose, and the bigger percentage of your CR should be based on how you play.

    Back to the AI though, I feel like most times teams get bopped by the AI is because they let themselves get mentally beaten. They go: "Oh no! Now we're playing against the op AI!!!" and then they crumble. Nevermind that 2 minutes ago they were playing HUT and they destroyed a team composed mainly of AI on All-Star difficulty 10-1.

    The AI aren't all that difficult in this game. They can be annoying, that I agree.
  • The way CR functions is fine for vs and HUT, and to an extent, club games. It simply does not work for dropins and it should remain where it is when you dropin. Doesn't go up, doesn't go down. Too many clowns, scrubs and trolls for it to work properly in dropins.
  • The way CR functions is fine for vs and HUT, and to an extent, club games. It simply does not work for dropins and it should remain where it is when you dropin. Doesn't go up, doesn't go down. Too many clowns, scrubs and trolls for it to work properly in dropins.

    I currently have a sub 500 Cr because I play solo drop ins lol. When I play with friends and in previous years it's always been over 800 and that's not even with guys I consistently play with. Drop ins is just a mess solo lol
  • The way CR functions is fine for vs and HUT, and to an extent, club games. It simply does not work for dropins and it should remain where it is when you dropin. Doesn't go up, doesn't go down. Too many clowns, scrubs and trolls for it to work properly in dropins.

    I currently have a sub 500 Cr because I play solo drop ins lol. When I play with friends and in previous years it's always been over 800 and that's not even with guys I consistently play with. Drop ins is just a mess solo lol

    Because of dropins my CR hovers around 540ish. When I am lucky I can get it back up to 650ish, but it drops incredibly fast. I have seen "teams" in dropins where almost the whole team is around 900CR but they have one player around 450CR. Lose to that team and your CR takes a decent hit.
  • Ampereturn
    96 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    As I said many times, AI forwards are OP in Drop-In game. Today 5 games in a row and AI forward scored game winning goal. It is very very frustrating.
    @NHLDev , @EA_Aljo , we need help and easy fix for Drop-In game:
    -25 CR for quitting
    At least 3 players on each side (not 2) to play 6v6. It will help to eliminate AI players in the game.
  • Ampereturn wrote: »
    As I said many times, AI forwards are OP in Drop-In game. Today 5 games in a row and AI forward scored game winning goal. It is very very frustrating.
    @NHLDev , @EA_Aljo , we need help and easy fix for Drop-In game:
    -25 CR for quitting
    At least 3 players on each side (not 2) to play 6v6. It will help to eliminate AI players in the game.

    I would argue, just in case for clarity's sake, that it has to have 3 skaters and not just 3 players for 6v6 unless playing club. Playing 2v2 is still a horrendously bad experience but 3v3 is somewhat okay and definitely not bad with a manual goalie.
  • Want to have more interactions online without people quitting early in games and before the game even starts? Get rid of the ability to see CR and levels. You don't have to cut it out completely, but people rely so heavily on it. Especially when recruiting. The Xbox EASHL Club is literally this:

    * 1000 CR D looking for club 3's
    * Need C for 6's 800 CR or higher
    * 900 LG Goalie for drop 3's
    * 1200 CR team LF Goalie for teams
  • I'd like to think I'm a pretty good player. I consistently beat or outplay most humans I come across (I don't play league, I'm sure I may not be real good there) but I will NEVER be as good as the CPU in WoC. I just can't beat them. I may hang the skates up after this game. I'm just not good enough to play that mode and it's the only mode I enjoy. I get to around 1200 CR in threes and 2 guys with 400 and a CPU will beat my friends and I. The CPU will net 4 goals from places that I've never scored all while stopping any cross crease we attempt.

    In Eashl we often have a hard time finding club games so 2-4 of us will jump in drop-in. It will start 6v6 if you score first their goalie quits.. now you're at a huge disadvantage as yours is still there.. there are teams now that will allow the other team to score or purposefully score on their own goalie so he quits. If you actually get into a game with 2cpu goalies you still have to hop the other players stay in the game because time and time and time again being up 6-0 with a team of guys around ~800CR is NOT safe when playing 3 CPU skaters no matter how bad the other team is. I hate people who rag the puck, I hate people who hide behind the net, I hate people who kill clock but I'm starting to get it.. this is what we're probably supposed to do. This is the only way I see many people find an advantage when playing these computers. I can't find open lanes to pass or even shoot when they're reading my button presses on the fly. We had 4 goals scored on us within 3 in game minutes the other day and I've not been able to play since, I just shut the game off and completely lost interest. I'm just not good enough to play this mode and I don't know how many people are.

    The few people who I know can win vs CPU are raggers and exploiters. I am asking ANYONE to show videos of how they play this game legit and can beat CPU teams. I see people on these forums saying they're not good and you can beat them if you know how they play but I've not figured it out after a few years. I understand they position stupid but apart from that they're so good at everything else it makes the game unplayable for someone who is apparently not good enough. Can you allow us to quit games and not lose cr if we're winning or if they lose so many players, or a team HAS to have at least 4 humans in 6s and 3 in both threes and 3s? If the other team has 2 humans esp. after 1 period I'm gonna lose. There's almost no question about it the only games I EVER lose in threes is vs CPU teams (usually a mascot because their reach is high on top of being so good) I can say the same for any other top players. CPU on bad teams also seem to play FAR better. I'm just so confused as to how to how CPU's with bad positioning and SUPER human abilities is good for the game. It has half of my friends hating the community that rags and the other half suggesting we hide behind the net when they have a bunch of CPU's so we have a chance to win.

    The biggest issue is toxic, garbage players are rewarded in this game. When people like you or I play we think "What is the smartest hockey play". When the majority of "good players" play they think "How can I manipulate the game to score a toe-drag goal".

    This is a big issue and it won't get fixed. Our community of gamers is one of the cheapest, scummiest, and immature people in the video gaming community.
  • Treatmentworke66
    977 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    Here's an idea gives us back the ability to block these Mary's like we were once able to ,I can careless if no one wants to play against them ,last night I played one if these glitch wrappers that all he wanted to do was glitch wrap so for the whole first period it was me just standing on both sides of my net till I just finally quit
  • I see a lot of people saying how easy the CPU is to play against but I've played with several players with 1k+ cr and I have 1200 in threes. A cpu is better than me and better than them. They may play dumb but their abilities make them so much better than any one player. I get passing the puck around but their window for picking off passes is far bigger than a human. When CPU players take over the ice there is not much room to cycle like there is vs human. Can ANYONE who says CPU are easy to predict and beat show video of them playing and effectively beating a cpu team? They're easy on a rush? If you can get the puck up the ice without them taking it.. their defenseman are every bit as good as forwards except on a 2v1 1t set up when they move out of position (but people are asking for that to be fixed) that's the ONLY advantage we have found. Many humans will just cherry pick because they know their CPU will handle defense and can pass perfect off the boards to them. I have not seen anyone beat the CPU in this game. I feel I'm a pretty good player, I have played offline but hate facing the CPU. I would suggest have a disconnect % next to people's names in the drop-in lobby if NOTHING else. Then I can decide if I even want to play against a team. In threes I feel they should only have humans. A cpu on the small an ice surface is insane. We beat two teams with 3 guys having 1000-1200 cr and then lose to a team with 2 400's and a CPU.. CPU made 3 goals from center ice. I quit playing this game since this post but tried again tonight and quit after 2 losses to CPU teams. It's just unplayable.. my friends won't play or buy the games anymore. It really sucks that I just can't enjoy a hockey game
  • I see a lot of people saying how easy the CPU is to play against but I've played with several players with 1k+ cr and I have 1200 in threes. A cpu is better than me and better than them. They may play dumb but their abilities make them so much better than any one player. I get passing the puck around but their window for picking off passes is far bigger than a human. When CPU players take over the ice there is not much room to cycle like there is vs human. Can ANYONE who says CPU are easy to predict and beat show video of them playing and effectively beating a cpu team? They're easy on a rush? If you can get the puck up the ice without them taking it.. their defenseman are every bit as good as forwards except on a 2v1 1t set up when they move out of position (but people are asking for that to be fixed) that's the ONLY advantage we have found. Many humans will just cherry pick because they know their CPU will handle defense and can pass perfect off the boards to them. I have not seen anyone beat the CPU in this game. I feel I'm a pretty good player, I have played offline but hate facing the CPU. I would suggest have a disconnect % next to people's names in the drop-in lobby if NOTHING else. Then I can decide if I even want to play against a team. In threes I feel they should only have humans. A cpu on the small an ice surface is insane. We beat two teams with 3 guys having 1000-1200 cr and then lose to a team with 2 400's and a CPU.. CPU made 3 goals from center ice. I quit playing this game since this post but tried again tonight and quit after 2 losses to CPU teams. It's just unplayable.. my friends won't play or buy the games anymore. It really sucks that I just can't enjoy a hockey game

    Actually....i tear the cpu up on superstar settings, and do it all without exploits. I still get beat of course, but ive learned how to beat them. Hut and offline are WAY different than the ai you get in club or dropins though.
  • rsandersr47
    186 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    I see a lot of people saying how easy the CPU is to play against but I've played with several players with 1k+ cr and I have 1200 in threes. A cpu is better than me and better than them. They may play dumb but their abilities make them so much better than any one player. I get passing the puck around but their window for picking off passes is far bigger than a human. When CPU players take over the ice there is not much room to cycle like there is vs human. Can ANYONE who says CPU are easy to predict and beat show video of them playing and effectively beating a cpu team? They're easy on a rush? If you can get the puck up the ice without them taking it.. their defenseman are every bit as good as forwards except on a 2v1 1t set up when they move out of position (but people are asking for that to be fixed) that's the ONLY advantage we have found. Many humans will just cherry pick because they know their CPU will handle defense and can pass perfect off the boards to them. I have not seen anyone beat the CPU in this game. I feel I'm a pretty good player, I have played offline but hate facing the CPU. I would suggest have a disconnect % next to people's names in the drop-in lobby if NOTHING else. Then I can decide if I even want to play against a team. In threes I feel they should only have humans. A cpu on the small an ice surface is insane. We beat two teams with 3 guys having 1000-1200 cr and then lose to a team with 2 400's and a CPU.. CPU made 3 goals from center ice. I quit playing this game since this post but tried again tonight and quit after 2 losses to CPU teams. It's just unplayable.. my friends won't play or buy the games anymore. It really sucks that I just can't enjoy a hockey game

    Actually....i tear the cpu up on superstar settings, and do it all without exploits. I still get beat of course, but ive learned how to beat them. Hut and offline are WAY different than the ai you get in club or dropins though.

    That's what I think. I've played the hardest difficulties in BAP and didn't use glitch tactics and produced well. In WoC I just am not good enough. They're faster than me, can easily take the puck from me even by poking behind me, they can lay me out without any momentum, they pick passes and EVEN slap shots and immediately accelerate down the ice in the other direction at full speed, they collect/ reshoot any rebound even if you do get in better position. I just can't beat them. Even if I do somehow out produce the AI vs me I have to hope my teammates can all do the same. I don't know if this game just tries to cater to bad players? Maybe the CPU does need to be better in HUT IDK I hear that mode is more cancerous than WoC so I don't dare open myself up to that nightmare..

    I hate basketball and most of my friends do too.. we routinely put in at least $100 a piece for 2k every year. There may be some crap in the game but I'm not constantly pissed about CPU players destroying me or being far better than humans. I know 2k has more money to work with but it wasn't always like that. They just did the best with what they had. NHL could be more popular and the real sport could grow if they just took more time with the game and put more thought behind decisions. A cpu player has no business being better than someone who has played this game religiously for a few years. If I didn't like hockey there is no way I would ever play this game again after 1-2 losses to CPU teams.

    [Socair - edited swear filter]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • DetroitPride2114
    233 posts Member
    edited February 2020
    I see a lot of people saying how easy the CPU is to play against but I've played with several players with 1k+ cr and I have 1200 in threes. A cpu is better than me and better than them. They may play dumb but their abilities make them so much better than any one player. I get passing the puck around but their window for picking off passes is far bigger than a human. When CPU players take over the ice there is not much room to cycle like there is vs human. Can ANYONE who says CPU are easy to predict and beat show video of them playing and effectively beating a cpu team? They're easy on a rush? If you can get the puck up the ice without them taking it.. their defenseman are every bit as good as forwards except on a 2v1 1t set up when they move out of position (but people are asking for that to be fixed) that's the ONLY advantage we have found. Many humans will just cherry pick because they know their CPU will handle defense and can pass perfect off the boards to them. I have not seen anyone beat the CPU in this game. I feel I'm a pretty good player, I have played offline but hate facing the CPU. I would suggest have a disconnect % next to people's names in the drop-in lobby if NOTHING else. Then I can decide if I even want to play against a team. In threes I feel they should only have humans. A cpu on the small an ice surface is insane. We beat two teams with 3 guys having 1000-1200 cr and then lose to a team with 2 400's and a CPU.. CPU made 3 goals from center ice. I quit playing this game since this post but tried again tonight and quit after 2 losses to CPU teams. It's just unplayable.. my friends won't play or buy the games anymore. It really sucks that I just can't enjoy a hockey game

    Actually....i tear the cpu up on superstar settings, and do it all without exploits. I still get beat of course, but ive learned how to beat them. Hut and offline are WAY different than the ai you get in club or dropins though.

    That's what I think. I've played the hardest difficulties in BAP and didn't use glitch tactics and produced well. In WoC I just am not good enough. They're faster than me, can easily take the puck from me even by poking behind me, they can lay me out without any momentum, they pick passes and EVEN slap shots and immediately accelerate down the ice in the other direction at full speed, they collect/ reshoot any rebound even if you do get in better position. I just can't beat them. Even if I do somehow out produce the AI vs me I have to hope my teammates can all do the same. I don't know if this game just tries to cater to bad players? Maybe the CPU does need to be better in HUT IDK I hear that mode is more cancerous than WoC so I don't dare open myself up to that nightmare..

    I hate basketball and most of my friends do too.. we routinely put in at least $100 a piece for 2k every year. There may be some crap in the game but I'm not constantly pissed about CPU players destroying me or being far better than humans. I know 2k has more money to work with but it wasn't always like that. They just did the best with what they had. NHL could be more popular and the real sport could grow if they just took more time with the game and put more thought behind decisions. A cpu player has no business being better than someone who has played this game religiously for a few years. If I didn't like hockey there is no way I would ever play this game again after 1-2 losses to CPU teams.
    [Socair - edited quote]
    The only thoughts they seem to think hard about are ones that will bring more revenue. This is not the dev teams fault. Someone in another thread said the sky is the limit for this game. I agree, except....you can see the sky but EA put a dome over the dev team like in under the dome. They can look to the sky all they want but until EA takes that dome away, theyre stuck using whatever EA gives them to play with inside this dome.

    Thats the REAL problem IMO.
    Post edited by Socair on
  • 3s is not real hockey. if you play a lot of 3s against garbage players (most of 3s) you will easily rack up 1000+ cr and have no idea how to play against good players when you see them. Maybe CPU fits that category.

    AI is both good and bad. if you know how to exploit them they are easy, period. not up for debate. if you play against them the same exact way as normal players (who are more than likely not good) you may have struggles.
  • What I love most that the @NHLDev team has done is.... drumroll please....
    After manhandling your opponent in every which way imaginable, one of them rage quits, right? No sweat, it’s a 4 goal game, easy W, right? Not if the AI has anything to do bout it! Which he does.

    You’ll see the AI sub in & play at an unworldly level which the usual AI in most instances does not. The stock AI skates aimlessly and plays cluelessly, skates full speed on a straight line directly into the goalie, tripping himself into the boards while never attempting the shot. The sub AI skates with some of the quirkiest, most seizure-like quick movements while pulling off all kinds of dekes or shots you’ll never see an AI do otherwise. He will do his damndest to win the game for his team that was at one point hopeless.


    You’d think the team with a quitter would be the one who is punished for it but instead they are rewarded while the better team is the one now having to answer.





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