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Incidental contact, and loose pucks.

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Can someone outline some tips in predicting who is gonna get the puck when it falls off your stick for no reason when a defensive player dosent poke check, stick lift, or hit you, in other words when the user defensemen does nothing and dont make a play on the puck at all, but still knocks the puck loose.

Too many times does a loose puck just seem like a random toss up, you think you have it only to skate up ice and 2 seconds later, after you've taken yourself completely out of the play, realize you for no logical reason do not have the puck.

Some players instantly get full control of the puck anytime the puck is knocked away from them and its insanely difficult to take the puck, what do they know that I don't. My guys seem to lose the puck even when I'm behind the defenseman from 5 feet away most times. They have absolutely no user skill and make no plays but use the "incidental contact" to their advantage and have seemed to master doing nothing and having the puck just stick to them.

If someone could just outline EXACTLY how standing still works to your advantage and how you retain puck control, even when triple covered, that would be great. I'm open to all exploits and game breaking glitches aswell because that seems like thats how EA has designed this game to be played, they refuse to fix problems, and encourage unsportsmanlike play. So please help me "get better" and outline some of the cheesiest game breaking tricks you know of because they are being used against me every game and I'm frustrated. So of you can't beat em join em

Replies

  • Lol you must be talking about hut champs , because that's all they do , they let the AI do all the work the best way to play defense in this game is to not play defense
  • The AI’s will get every loose puck. Same goes for whichever team has the lowest CR. Also, whoever is in prime position to get the puck is also the one who is not allowed to, no matter what.
  • EA_Aljo
    1921 posts EA Community Manager
    Mc41DMB wrote: »
    The AI’s will get every loose puck. Same goes for whichever team has the lowest CR. Also, whoever is in prime position to get the puck is also the one who is not allowed to, no matter what.

    CR has nothing to do with this. It's about positioning and attributes. The AI players tend to have very good positioning, but their attributes very depending on the player or mode. For example, EASHL players use the base stats for 2 way builds. HUT could be any of the available items though. So, retrieving the puck after incidental contact is based on where the puck is in relation to the stick as well as the attributes of the players within range to pick it up. If you want to raise your chances of picking up the puck, play manual defense and use the available defensive tools. Stick life, poke check and hitting.

    There never was the intent to design the game with glitches. This should be quite obvious. If they were, they wouldn't be a glitch. They'd be a feature. We want the game to play as fair as possible and many issues have been resolved over the years. This is software though. It's also a highly competitive game played online. Almost any game in that environment is going to have people with a win at all costs mentality. We'll never change human nature, but we are always looking to resolve exploits. Unfortunately, resolving exploits is no easy task as it can often lead to making things worse. A solution needs to be found, tested and released. This is a process that can take weeks, months or longer.
  • NHLDev
    1677 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited February 24
    To add to this, the attributes in these cases handle recovery time after puck loss or reaction to a loose puck. So a higher skilled player (attributes such as offensive and defensive awareness) tap into how many frames it takes before a player can start to solve a pickup.

    Pickups themselves will vary in length depending on how far a player has to move their stick so a pickup right in front of your forehand is going to be quicker than a pickup reaching behind you on your backhand side.

    As far as increasing your chances of keeping or gaining the puck back, it is best to look at the game physically and try to keep yourself between the puck and your opponent. Slowing down and being in this position for longer until you get control of the puck will increase your chances of acquiring and then after that, you need to figure out where your stick will be for the moments after pickup relative to your opponents body and stick as trying to drag your stick through their stick or body isn't going to allow you to do that cleanly without having to release the puck and pick it back up again (which again goes through your ability to react physically - quicker to get your stick around stick on stick than stick on body).

    Also keep in mind that when you are controlling the puck, if an opponents stick goes through your body first they aren't able to make future contact with the puck or your stick for x frames after the last contact with your body to simulate needing to get the stick back around in clean air. That is why keeping your body between them and the puck, just like in real life is a good idea. If you have good control over your skater angles/facing and stick position/angles relative to your opponents body and stick positions, you will fair better at this.

    There are times you may want to skate further away after receiving the puck to keep them behind you or stick handle over with your right stick to a more protected space (even if standing still) before deciding where to skate rather than potentially turning back into your opponent and risk losing it. Beyond that, you may want to poke or chop a puck to space if you are in a more vulnerable position or place on the ice to control the puck when out numbered, etc.

    The other thing that players understand is how they will lose the puck to stick on stick or stick on body contact and can manipulate where they will be and where their opponents will be before it occurs, as well as the angle direction and speed of the puck prior to contact as when the stick is 'held up' from stick on stick or stick on body contact, the puck will keep going. This means you can possibly lose it to a more advantageous position and if you understand that ahead of time, it helps you navigate how to get the puck out of tight spaces and pick it up again more cleanly.

    Some of these things are what may feel random and unbalanced until you have that level of control over your opponent.
  • I've noticed in EASHL games that sometimes one team will dominate the loose puck battles. It feels like it's dictated by connection.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    To add to this, the attributes in these cases handle recovery time after puck loss or reaction to a loose puck. So a higher skilled player (attributes such as offensive and defensive awareness) tap into how many frames it takes before a player can start to solve a pickup.

    Pickups themselves will vary in length depending on how far a player has to move their stick so a pickup right in front of your forehand is going to be quicker than a pickup reaching behind you on your backhand side.

    As far as increasing your chances of keeping or gaining the puck back, it is best to look at the game physically and try to keep yourself between the puck and your opponent. Slowing down and being in this position for longer until you get control of the puck will increase your chances of acquiring and then after that, you need to figure out where your stick will be for the moments after pickup relative to your opponents body and stick as trying to drag your stick through their stick or body isn't going to allow you to do that cleanly without having to release the puck and pick it back up again (which again goes through your ability to react physically - quicker to get your stick around stick on stick than stick on body).

    Also keep in mind that when you are controlling the puck, if an opponents stick goes through your body first they aren't able to make future contact with the puck or your stick for x frames after the last contact with your body to simulate needing to get the stick back around in clean air. That is why keeping your body between them and the puck, just like in real life is a good idea. If you have good control over your skater angles/facing and stick position/angles relative to your opponents body and stick positions, you will fair better at this.

    There are times you may want to skate further away after receiving the puck to keep them behind you or stick handle over with your right stick to a more protected space (even if standing still) before deciding where to skate rather than potentially turning back into your opponent and risk losing it. Beyond that, you may want to poke or chop a puck to space if you are in a more vulnerable position or place on the ice to control the puck when out numbered, etc.

    The other thing that players understand is how they will lose the puck to stick on stick or stick on body contact and can manipulate where they will be and where their opponents will be before it occurs, as well as the angle direction and speed of the puck prior to contact as when the stick is 'held up' from stick on stick or stick on body contact, the puck will keep going. This means you can possibly lose it to a more advantageous position and if you understand that ahead of time, it helps you navigate how to get the puck out of tight spaces and pick it up again more cleanly.

    Some of these things are what may feel random and unbalanced until you have that level of control over your opponent.

    i think possibly one of the problems the game has is when a stick comes into contact with a body part, it passes through (almost as if it disappears) instead of being physically "knocked" somewhere.

    in real hockey when a defender attacks a carrier with the body, they will ideally skate through the stick and even more importantly the puck knocking it loose. In EA NHL its as if the stick disappears as it passes through body parts, reappearing and almost instantly picking up the puck which is not disturbed in any fashion. The defender can't pick up this puck because as described his stick is likely in much worse position than the puck carriers. This is why we see so many "balanced/puck handling/pickup" builds that just skate through a crowd cutting/gliding/toe dragging and seemingly retaining the puck the entire time while they drag their stick and through legs and bodies.

    Its also why the absolute best way to defend is if you can hip check into an opponent (which actually ends up spinning you around 180) because you will end up with your stick in best position to steal/pick up loose pucks. which is just absurd. There's probably never been a hip checker in real life that attacked a carrier, spun around to hit someone backwards and almost seamlessly on the fly stole the puck and took off. but that is absolutely the best way to attack a carrier in EA NHL, if you can pull it off, because that is what happens.

    I think what I would like to see is if a stick hits a body part, assume the skater holding that stick has now lost control of that stick for maybe 2 secs? so its not able to do anything puck related for like 2 seconds. this should apply to both sides, offensive and defensive and only apply to body parts. stick checking/lifting should not have this impact. i think that would greatly solve the problem where offensive players are able to just skate through a crowd. but on the flip side I think it would help offensive players that are using their body to protect the puck. defensively today, using DSS, the defense can be really aggressive for these same reasons and sometimes unrealistically just steal pucks. I don't want easy unrealistic trips from using DSS too much, it just shouldn't be 100% effective all the time.

    anyway thats my theory
  • Brogers2487
    62 posts Member
    edited February 24
    NHLDev wrote: »
    To add to this, the attributes in these cases handle recovery time after puck loss or reaction to a loose puck. So a higher skilled player (attributes such as offensive and defensive awareness) tap into how many frames it takes before a player can start to solve a pickup.

    Pickups themselves will vary in length depending on how far a player has to move their stick so a pickup right in front of your forehand is going to be quicker than a pickup reaching behind you on your backhand side.

    As far as increasing your chances of keeping or gaining the puck back, it is best to look at the game physically and try to keep yourself between the puck and your opponent. Slowing down and being in this position for longer until you get control of the puck will increase your chances of acquiring and then after that, you need to figure out where your stick will be for the moments after pickup relative to your opponents body and stick as trying to drag your stick through their stick or body isn't going to allow you to do that cleanly without having to release the puck and pick it back up again (which again goes through your ability to react physically - quicker to get your stick around stick on stick than stick on body).

    Also keep in mind that when you are controlling the puck, if an opponents stick goes through your body first they aren't able to make future contact with the puck or your stick for x frames after the last contact with your body to simulate needing to get the stick back around in clean air. That is why keeping your body between them and the puck, just like in real life is a good idea. If you have good control over your skater angles/facing and stick position/angles relative to your opponents body and stick positions, you will fair better at this.

    There are times you may want to skate further away after receiving the puck to keep them behind you or stick handle over with your right stick to a more protected space (even if standing still) before deciding where to skate rather than potentially turning back into your opponent and risk losing it. Beyond that, you may want to poke or chop a puck to space if you are in a more vulnerable position or place on the ice to control the puck when out numbered, etc.

    The other thing that players understand is how they will lose the puck to stick on stick or stick on body contact and can manipulate where they will be and where their opponents will be before it occurs, as well as the angle direction and speed of the puck prior to contact as when the stick is 'held up' from stick on stick or stick on body contact, the puck will keep going. This means you can possibly lose it to a more advantageous position and if you understand that ahead of time, it helps you navigate how to get the puck out of tight spaces and pick it up again more cleanly.

    Some of these things are what may feel random and unbalanced until you have that level of control over your opponent.

    If this is the case, how does those situations where a player will get sticklifted or poked and they instantly and repetively maintain full control of the puck happen? When i say instantly I litterally mean instantly and you can hear the "click" of several well timed stick checks and incidental contact moments happen but, and I litterally mean, instantly they retain full control of the puck over and over and over again. Why is there no frames before they instantly keep controling the puck happening?
    I've heard things like, if you are deaking (I loosely use the term deaking because gliding not keeping your feet moving holding the puck to one side is suicide in real life yet an overpowered play in this game,) but deaking to the side that the puck falls off your stick from will cause you to instantly retain possession and some players have mastered the exploit of this and even after multiple stick checks can use incidental contact and this instant puck recovery nonsense to almost never lose the puck. I mean with all the risks a stick check carries with it, is it too much to ask to make a successful poke not be able to have the guy instantly recover the puck from it?

    What you said sounds well and good and I do believe this is the intended design, but it does not translate to my experience in this game. I've got pictures and videos, I can post pictures but don't have the full know how to post videos, that show sticks in full control of pucks while the stick is cropping threw body parts, by your explanation there should be X amount of frames where this shouldn't be possible.

    Also does this "simulating getting back into clean air" thing apply to when the stick is threw the boards and in the 3rd row yet somehow the player is not only in full control of the puck but can still cleanly execute spin moves? Hiding the puck along the or sometimes in the boards has been a huge glitch in this game for a long time, board play and a few graphics improvements to keep the puck from warping with the boards has helped some with this but its still a big problem when the skaters hands and stick are, litterally in the 2nd row, yet they still cleanly execute spin moves and can pivot with full control of the puck that sits, not on their stick but along the boards while half their body is in the stands. The boards should not be a safe space for a skater to turn into and use to spin off hits and avoid pokes.
  • NHL 20 in a nutshell

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  • Exactly how this game plays
  • NHLDev
    1677 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited February 25
    i think possibly one of the problems the game has is when a stick comes into contact with a body part, it passes through (almost as if it disappears) instead of being physically "knocked" somewhere.

    in real hockey when a defender attacks a carrier with the body, they will ideally skate through the stick and even more importantly the puck knocking it loose. In EA NHL its as if the stick disappears as it passes through body parts, reappearing and almost instantly picking up the puck which is not disturbed in any fashion. The defender can't pick up this puck because as described his stick is likely in much worse position than the puck carriers. This is why we see so many "balanced/puck handling/pickup" builds that just skate through a crowd cutting/gliding/toe dragging and seemingly retaining the puck the entire time while they drag their stick and through legs and bodies.

    Its also why the absolute best way to defend is if you can hip check into an opponent (which actually ends up spinning you around 180) because you will end up with your stick in best position to steal/pick up loose pucks. which is just absurd. There's probably never been a hip checker in real life that attacked a carrier, spun around to hit someone backwards and almost seamlessly on the fly stole the puck and took off. but that is absolutely the best way to attack a carrier in EA NHL, if you can pull it off, because that is what happens.

    I think what I would like to see is if a stick hits a body part, assume the skater holding that stick has now lost control of that stick for maybe 2 secs? so its not able to do anything puck related for like 2 seconds. this should apply to both sides, offensive and defensive and only apply to body parts. stick checking/lifting should not have this impact. i think that would greatly solve the problem where offensive players are able to just skate through a crowd. but on the flip side I think it would help offensive players that are using their body to protect the puck. defensively today, using DSS, the defense can be really aggressive for these same reasons and sometimes unrealistically just steal pucks. I don't want easy unrealistic trips from using DSS too much, it just shouldn't be 100% effective all the time.

    anyway thats my theory

    We don't simulate the stick in physics as right now it causes more unrealistic behavior than it does realistic ones but we are continuing to look at it and how we could improve something like that.

    We do however have that delay you are talking about to simulate the impact on your stick and recovery time which is longer for stick on body contact than it is for stick on stick but possibly in both cases not as high as you would like it. It also scales based on the attributes of a player.

    This showed up on my timeline today and thought it was relevant. A player like McDavid recovers to this level of disruption faster than the average player due to his skill and ability to read what is going to happen ahead of it happening. In this clip there are a few stick disruptions and even contact with the actual puck on the last one and he is able to finish it seamlessly. So unlike the body where you may have to pull your stick around and are out of commission longer, sticks don't cause as much delay to recover and get back to the puck. And again this varies by player so highly skilled players will see quicker recovering times and if the puck is right near the stick still, some of the pickups are going to be quite seamless and quick compared to if they had to reach further for it.



    In our game, an actual clean pokecheck is going to knock the puck away further but a lot of players tend to get stick on stick when they miss the puck and cause disruption and delay from the puck carrier to get control again but the puck keeps going where it was prior to the stick on stick contact and therefore is free to be picked up by anyone, including the original puck carrier if they are able to (after they recover and depending what the position the puck is in relative to them)

    I posted it before but there are cases in this video that show the differences between stick on stick vs stick on body and stick on puck in terms of how much disruption there is and the impacts on getting the puck back or not.

    Post edited by NHLDev on
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    i think possibly one of the problems the game has is when a stick comes into contact with a body part, it passes through (almost as if it disappears) instead of being physically "knocked" somewhere.

    in real hockey when a defender attacks a carrier with the body, they will ideally skate through the stick and even more importantly the puck knocking it loose. In EA NHL its as if the stick disappears as it passes through body parts, reappearing and almost instantly picking up the puck which is not disturbed in any fashion. The defender can't pick up this puck because as described his stick is likely in much worse position than the puck carriers. This is why we see so many "balanced/puck handling/pickup" builds that just skate through a crowd cutting/gliding/toe dragging and seemingly retaining the puck the entire time while they drag their stick and through legs and bodies.

    Its also why the absolute best way to defend is if you can hip check into an opponent (which actually ends up spinning you around 180) because you will end up with your stick in best position to steal/pick up loose pucks. which is just absurd. There's probably never been a hip checker in real life that attacked a carrier, spun around to hit someone backwards and almost seamlessly on the fly stole the puck and took off. but that is absolutely the best way to attack a carrier in EA NHL, if you can pull it off, because that is what happens.

    I think what I would like to see is if a stick hits a body part, assume the skater holding that stick has now lost control of that stick for maybe 2 secs? so its not able to do anything puck related for like 2 seconds. this should apply to both sides, offensive and defensive and only apply to body parts. stick checking/lifting should not have this impact. i think that would greatly solve the problem where offensive players are able to just skate through a crowd. but on the flip side I think it would help offensive players that are using their body to protect the puck. defensively today, using DSS, the defense can be really aggressive for these same reasons and sometimes unrealistically just steal pucks. I don't want easy unrealistic trips from using DSS too much, it just shouldn't be 100% effective all the time.

    anyway thats my theory

    We do have that delay which is more for stick on body contact than it is for stick on stick but possibly not as high as you would like it. It also scales based on the attributes of a player.

    This showed up on my timeline today and thought it was relevant. A player like McDavid recovers to this level of disruption faster than the average player due to his skill and ability to read what is going to happen ahead of it happening. In this clip there are a few stick disruptions and even contact with the actual puck on the last one and he is able to finish it seamlessly.



    In our game, an actual clean pokecheck is going to knock the puck away further but a lot of players tend to get stick on stick when they miss the puck and cause disruption and delay from the puck carrier to get control again but the puck keeps going where it was prior to the stick on stick contact and therefore is free to be picked up by anyone, including the original puck carrier if they are able to (after their recover and the position the puck is in relative to them)

    And here lies the overall problem in the game. We are 60 games in and you cherry pick 1 play that just happened. Listen to the announcers reaction, they appreciate how rare a play like this is, it only happens a few times a season by very special players. In your game this caliber play happens multiple times on one rush. This is an extreamly rare play that is by far not normal and you model the game after it. It's the same as the incredible back skating, yes it happens but not every single rush, also one timers in general, has a much higher frequency in real life, but still 90% goals is a cross crease pass like in EA. The one handed tuck on breakaways.

    I think my point is clear. You've modeled the game after incredible rare, in this case 1 outta 60 games, moments and made them happen on every single rush. That is not hockey, what mcdavid did is so special it should be considered an outlier and ignored when looking at it from a statistical standpoint and talking about how the game mechanics play
  • NHLDev
    1677 posts EA NHL Developer
    And here lies the overall problem in the game. We are 60 games in and you cherry pick 1 play that just happened. Listen to the announcers reaction, they appreciate how rare a play like this is, it only happens a few times a season by very special players. In your game this caliber play happens multiple times on one rush. This is an extreamly rare play that is by far not normal and you model the game after it. It's the same as the incredible back skating, yes it happens but not every single rush, also one timers in general, has a much higher frequency in real life, but still 90% goals is a cross crease pass like in EA. The one handed tuck on breakaways.

    I think my point is clear. You've modeled the game after incredible rare, in this case 1 outta 60 games, moments and made them happen on every single rush. That is not hockey, what mcdavid did is so special it should be considered an outlier and ignored when looking at it from a statistical standpoint and talking about how the game mechanics play
    Our initial models are trying to simulate what we see in reality and then we tune how forgiving they are or not across the different game styles. Incidental contact is more black and white so across styles it is either on or off but we also have a factor for Traditional and Arcade where the impact has a grace period after puck reception to kick in. For Competitive and Full Sim, it is always on and has full effect -- We make sure that stick on stick and stick on body will cause puck loss, then tune the min times we feel a player can 'recover' and then look at how different angles, player ratings, etc. can add more 'error/delay' to that.

    This particular video I linked was a recap of a few of McDavid's great plays in games after he has come back from injury that showed up in my timeline today. I guess it is possible that the games he came back are always the best cases out of all of the games he played but most people will tell you he does stuff like this on a nightly basis. But that isn't the main point -- I didn't go searching for it, it just showed up on my timeline and I thought I would post it as relevant to what is possible and that stick on stick contact doesn't necessarily mean that a player should be out of commission for 2 seconds, especially as the player is higher skilled.

    I also posted a video showing a player playing our game showing multiple sequences where stick on stick, stick on body and stick on puck produce different results and in many cases success for the defense. In the months, since that video was posted, we have added more delay to the recovery after puck loss as well in our content/tuning updates.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Mc41DMB wrote: »
    The AI’s will get every loose puck. Same goes for whichever team has the lowest CR. Also, whoever is in prime position to get the puck is also the one who is not allowed to, no matter what.

    CR has nothing to do with this. It's about positioning and attributes. The AI players tend to have very good positioning, but their attributes very depending on the player or mode. For example, EASHL players use the base stats for 2 way builds. HUT could be any of the available items though. So, retrieving the puck after incidental contact is based on where the puck is in relation to the stick as well as the attributes of the players within range to pick it up. If you want to raise your chances of picking up the puck, play manual defense and use the available defensive tools. Stick life, poke check and hitting.

    There never was the intent to design the game with glitches. This should be quite obvious. If they were, they wouldn't be a glitch. They'd be a feature. We want the game to play as fair as possible and many issues have been resolved over the years. This is software though. It's also a highly competitive game played online. Almost any game in that environment is going to have people with a win at all costs mentality. We'll never change human nature, but we are always looking to resolve exploits. Unfortunately, resolving exploits is no easy task as it can often lead to making things worse. A solution needs to be found, tested and released. This is a process that can take weeks, months or longer.

    Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in proper position defensively to make a very clean stick lift, a sweeping poke check, or a well-timed hit only for the dude to come away cleanly with the puck while now I’m behind the play. Puck pickups are absolute trash and pure utter chaos when you or your teammates can’t even collect the puck after knocking it loose with a good manual defensive play. How often do skaters that are hit to the ice get back up with the puck on their tape? Too often.
  • I've noticed in EASHL games that sometimes one team will dominate the loose puck battles. It feels like it's dictated by connection.

    It has very little to do with connection.

  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Mc41DMB wrote: »
    The AI’s will get every loose puck. Same goes for whichever team has the lowest CR. Also, whoever is in prime position to get the puck is also the one who is not allowed to, no matter what.

    CR has nothing to do with this. It's about positioning and attributes. The AI players tend to have very good positioning, but their attributes very depending on the player or mode. For example, EASHL players use the base stats for 2 way builds. HUT could be any of the available items though. So, retrieving the puck after incidental contact is based on where the puck is in relation to the stick as well as the attributes of the players within range to pick it up. If you want to raise your chances of picking up the puck, play manual defense and use the available defensive tools. Stick life, poke check and hitting.

    There never was the intent to design the game with glitches. This should be quite obvious. If they were, they wouldn't be a glitch. They'd be a feature. We want the game to play as fair as possible and many issues have been resolved over the years. This is software though. It's also a highly competitive game played online. Almost any game in that environment is going to have people with a win at all costs mentality. We'll never change human nature, but we are always looking to resolve exploits. Unfortunately, resolving exploits is no easy task as it can often lead to making things worse. A solution needs to be found, tested and released. This is a process that can take weeks, months or longer.

    Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in proper position defensively to make a very clean stick lift, a sweeping poke check, or a well-timed hit only for the dude to come away cleanly with the puck while now I’m behind the play. Puck pickups are absolute trash and pure utter chaos when you or your teammates can’t even collect the puck after knocking it loose with a good manual defensive play. How often do skaters that are hit to the ice get back up with the puck on their tape? Too often.

    Perfect points here! Too many times, making a good solid manual defensive play, actually leaves you vulnerable and out of the play because the way incidental contact and loose pucks are dealt with.

    It's not in my nature to suggest AI-assists, but with the cropping issues and sticks moving threw solid objects being left to "trust us its better this way" and goalies passing out 90% of the pucks threw traffic and that AI assist and protective bubble being in the game because "prople just cant resist passing it out" instead of being smart and freezing it, I think an assist should be put in to work around incidental contact with a guy laying on the ice after a hit. The puck should not get tied up with him enough so after being completly upended he gets up and ends up with a breakaway because poor puck mechanics. Just put in something like the simulated frame thing for " getting the stick into clean air" where the victim of a huge hit cant then have incidental contact with the puck and prevent the hitter from grabbing it long enough to get up and still have the puck.
  • But just to wrap up my overall point while i actually have a developers ear, I think this game would play better, and it might not be fully realistic, if when users made plays they actually worked. By that I mean, if there is such a high risk of stick checks, a well timed one should have a very very high percentage of causing a turnover, not just a loose puck, but a turnover almost to the tune of having an assist to help garentee the turnover to make a good user play feel more rewarding. Then leave it up to the offensive attacking player who just lost the puck to make a manual play to get it back. Too many times does it seem like a loose puck is scripted to go back to the attacking team and good defensive plays are left feeling unrewarding and almost a detriment to the team.

    Plays should be more definitive and user skill based than left to attributes and chance. If a player retains the puck skating threw traffic it should be because the user did something to warrent that, not because a chance and attribute rating, moreso in eashl where all players have similar ratings than HUT where there can be large attribute gaps.

    Overall point is, and kinda confirmed by your explanations, is attributes and positioning trump user skill plays. And i think we see that and it translates in game to alot of lazy drifting plays just playing to cause incidental contact to trigger, and hoping your guy comes up with the puck in the battle, no user skill, infact after the 1st incidental contact is triggered its better to just stand still and try to keep triggering it until you come up with the puck.

    I believe this is a terrible system for deciding puck battles, it leaves the users feeling like random luck is controling the game, obviously as you said its more determined by positioning and attributes, but still out of the users immediate control on the play. And even good positioning and stick checks result in kind of toss up plays where users arent even sure who has the puck and end up not picking up pucks the user perceives as what should be an easy puck up, resulting in poor positioning and a very bad feeling of not being in control which makes the gameplay feel fustraiting when your battling game mechanics more than your opponent.

    If it was more predictable who was going to come out with a puck, you can prepare for it better. Like in real life no defender is going to start skating up ice like they have a breakaway just to notice a few seconds later they don't have the puck.l, instantly they would have never even left the scrum until they were in control, but in this game all too often are positioning problems caused because of this game mechanic where users cant tell who has the puck comming out of a battle. Anyone who has played this game has been in the situation where they think they are breaking out only to be in the neutral zone without the puck, that should never happen.
  • Also while i have a developers attention, and yes I know way off topic. In HUT you gotta make looking up prices and comparing players easier. It shouldnt take navigating 6 different menus to see lowest prices on the market when posting auctions while looking at players to buy theres a compair price menu, that should be enabled from every menu especially in then post auctions menu. I really hate having to search an auction to compair prices and navigate litterally 6 different menus to compair prices.
  • Mc41DMB wrote: »
    I've noticed in EASHL games that sometimes one team will dominate the loose puck battles. It feels like it's dictated by connection.

    It has very little to do with connection.

    Connection is the primary source of 90% of this games problems. It has quite a bit more than very little to do with connection.
  • I only play this game offline and since the latest update, I feel like I am playing air hockey or pong. The puck is just bouncing everywhere and no one can hold on to it. The game had it's problems before the latest patch but now I don't know if I even want to try playing anymore.
  • But just to wrap up my overall point while i actually have a developers ear, I think this game would play better, and it might not be fully realistic, if when users made plays they actually worked. By that I mean, if there is such a high risk of stick checks, a well timed one should have a very very high percentage of causing a turnover, not just a loose puck, but a turnover almost to the tune of having an assist to help garentee the turnover to make a good user play feel more rewarding. Then leave it up to the offensive attacking player who just lost the puck to make a manual play to get it back. Too many times does it seem like a loose puck is scripted to go back to the attacking team and good defensive plays are left feeling unrewarding and almost a detriment to the team.

    Plays should be more definitive and user skill based than left to attributes and chance. If a player retains the puck skating threw traffic it should be because the user did something to warrent that, not because a chance and attribute rating, moreso in eashl where all players have similar ratings than HUT where there can be large attribute gaps.

    Overall point is, and kinda confirmed by your explanations, is attributes and positioning trump user skill plays. And i think we see that and it translates in game to alot of lazy drifting plays just playing to cause incidental contact to trigger, and hoping your guy comes up with the puck in the battle, no user skill, infact after the 1st incidental contact is triggered its better to just stand still and try to keep triggering it until you come up with the puck.

    I believe this is a terrible system for deciding puck battles, it leaves the users feeling like random luck is controling the game, obviously as you said its more determined by positioning and attributes, but still out of the users immediate control on the play. And even good positioning and stick checks result in kind of toss up plays where users arent even sure who has the puck and end up not picking up pucks the user perceives as what should be an easy puck up, resulting in poor positioning and a very bad feeling of not being in control which makes the gameplay feel fustraiting when your battling game mechanics more than your opponent.

    If it was more predictable who was going to come out with a puck, you can prepare for it better. Like in real life no defender is going to start skating up ice like they have a breakaway just to notice a few seconds later they don't have the puck.l, instantly they would have never even left the scrum until they were in control, but in this game all too often are positioning problems caused because of this game mechanic where users cant tell who has the puck comming out of a battle. Anyone who has played this game has been in the situation where they think they are breaking out only to be in the neutral zone without the puck, that should never happen.

    1. I can't tell you how many times I did what I was supposed to do (good positioning, not over-committing, no spamming poke) and I get beat because "attributes". Basically, the little dangler was able to do whatever he wanted and I had no way to stop him because his puck control is high. You can't hit him, you can't poke check because of tripping, you can't stick lift and get it back because "attributes", and if the puck does become loose, you have no idea who is going to get it. Defense is definitely not rewarding and clearly the underdog here.
    2. I don't care what anyone says, offense and attacking are favored in this game. It is completely the opposite of how hockey is. To score a goal, to make a great play, you need to BEAT the defense. You don't just make stuff happen because you're good. Sorry. Being good does not mean you are successful on offense the overwhelming majority of the time. This game is geared towards goals because goals sell copies. The community that plays this game is toxic, cheap, and really scummy. At least half of the people who play this game are absolute trash who found ways to be successful doing the opposite of what your Pee-Wee coach taught you. Give me some skates, a stick, and some ice and none of these kids would ever even sniff the net and I am a 35 year old out of shape player who can still compete at a high level defensively. If EA made a game that punished you for being out of position, for making stupid dekes, for blindly running for big hits, for making anti-hockey plays they would sell half of the copies. We have a joke with our EASHL team: If you want to make the right play in this game do the opposite of what you would do in actual hockey. Want to be "good" on defense? Don't play position, stand infront of your net and block everything because the puck falls down to your stick and the puck hits everything without ever deflecting in a negative way. Want to possess the puck? Stand still with it until the opposition comes at you and you can ballerina your way away from them. The best way to play offense is to basically play soccer and just pass on the perimeter standing still. It is the most boring version of hockey I have ever played because you don't have the tools on D to do what needs to be done and you can escape everything on offense if your "attributes" are set correctly.
    3. "Attributes" are overpowered in this game. Look at Madden, Randy Moss and Maholmes would NOT be able to go deep every play and be successful and they are highly rated. In NHL, you can do the same thing ad nauseum in this game and be successful. 1 handed tucks, short side cheese, just nonsense because it is so prevalent. You can have the worst puck hog in the world against you and he will keep possession after you read and applied the book on defensive play because "puck control". I am from Pittsburgh, I watch Crosby every game. That dude fails 75% of the time. Just like every other great player. In NHL, you can be successful 75% of the time doing the same crap if you have the right build. It is so tiresome at this point. The user skill side is only applicable in the sense of "who can exploit the games deficiencies better". Everything else is random, chaotic, and nonsensical. It has become so very frustrating for myself and my 5 teammates in this game. Seriously, it is losing fun fast because of the way the community HAS to play to accommodate the way it is designed currently. This game is not hockey.
    4. The user can do smart things and more and that does not correlate to making good plays.
    5. User intelligence is trumped by attributes.
    6. There are too many automatic things going on that frustrate you because the difficulty you have actually controlling your player. I could write a book on this.

    I can't take it anymore. After being rather supportive and inquisitive about this game the past few months, I have reached a point where I wont even play it online anymore. All my teammates have had enough as well. It has reached a point where 8/10 games you play against a bunch of scumbags who ruin the integrity of hockey because they can be rewarded for playing like toolbags.
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