Remove the one hand tuck from this game and bring back poke check
14 posts Member
October 14, 2019 9:34PM edited October 2019
This game has become a joke. Backward skating snipers and one hand tucks dominate every game. The defense is powerless to stop them when in reality you should just be able to knock the puck off their stick. Poke checking is basically irrelevant other than for drawing penalties. The one hand tuck is the most overused glitch shot in the history of this game. Defense and passing should win games not exploiting broken physics to draw penalties and using button combos to score. Fix this garbage.
[Socair - edited title to lowercase]
[Socair - edited title to lowercase]
Post edited by Socair on
If I was a dev, I would legitimately be ashamed of this game.
Since it existed since october, does this mean EA didn't do anything about this glitch lol??
If he's scoring this many times against you, that means you're letting him get close enough to pull it off. You need to defend better so you're not putting them in such a prime scoring position.
I get how successful this play is, but you can very significantly cut down their chances at using it by not letting them walk in to the slot and score the one hand tuck.
Last gen had better player movement and dexterity for controlling the puck. But poke checking was better and caused less penalties so it balanced out.
You could also do the one hand tuck but you had to do it manually, which made it harder and more satisfying when you pulled it off.
The bumper car hockey we have now with nerfed hitting, poke check penalties, stiff player movement with the puck & reduced dexterity, reduced puck control from insignificant bumps and skating over stick.. makes for a painful, less fun Hockey game.
I know I need to defend better. As stated in my reply, I didn't know it existed this kind of goal. But in my defense, he wasn't in front of the goalie, he was at the short side of my goalie with my defender in between. It was my fault for missing the check on his forward, but I can't expect him to easily scored a goal one hand tuck short side.
On the following video, at 1:42, he did exactly this deke goal. I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure goalie in real life can stop a puck slowly sliding to his far side while being on the short side all along.
In real life, the player would need to be at middle of the goalie or cross crease to pull it off. It may enter on some rare occasion, but it shouldn't be 100% or near it. And if there is a defender in between, it should be even harder to pull it off because it would have the probability of goalie picking it up or defender picking it up. For a slow sliding puck to go in the net, it would need the goalie to overcommit a slide to a side and with that momentum, the goalie cannot come back.
In my case, the goalie is already guarding the short side and is not affected by any movement momentum. So it should be easy to track the one hand tuck and slide to protect the hole.
This is another op move that needs to be nerfed ...y you ask ... well just like that bh fh bh move this move can be pulled off at angles that the goalie should never be fooled on ..so much for the new goalie threat analysis ..
You see these same goals in real hockey. I don't see why certain moves, that are used in the real world, should be removed because you give up breakaways. You always have the option to play manual goalie in those situations.
Yes but the same move NEVER beats a goalie over and over in real life. Those goalies learn. Yes you can manually control goalie...at a disadvantage. Goalie controls are slow, and clunky at best. The skater can move twice as fast as the goalie so neither are really an appropriate option.
Again I feel like you're missing the point. You can't pull it off and be successful over and over again in real life. I don't think the move needs to be removed but the tuck and/or goalie need to be adjusted so it goes some degree less than 100% of the time.
Also again, this game has online modes in which you are locked on a skater and you do not have the option to play manual goalie. Undoubtedly your response will be to bring a goalie and to that I respond you don't always have one and if it's a drop in then the goalie you had quit in the 1st period anyway because this franchise refuses to even attempt a solution for quitters.
You guys seem to fail to notice that the original post was from October. The game has been patched since and back skating ballerinas are absolutely not as successful since the latest patch. It is so much easier to knock them off the puck the last few weeks.
If an opponent is scoring 5 one handed tucks in a single game, then when do you start to ask where is the defense?? Why are people fixated on only the goalie at this point? Defense should be doing its job much better.
I get it is annoying how easy it is to beat the goalie, but it seems just as easy to pierce his defense to be able to do it five times in a single game.
Anyways, given the date of the original post, it is barely relevant today.
Oh you do but not over and over again from IMPOSSIBLE ANGLES ...that's my point the goalies need to be better and no I don't give up a lot of Breakaway's again the goalie gives up these cheesey goals from angles he shouldn't be leaving his post
Of course, we're always looking to improve goalies, but the point remains, you're giving up scoring chances from high percentage areas. Whether or not they use the one hand tuck or forehand-backhand, that doesn't excuse that your defense isn't playing better. Goals get scored in the real world from angles that seem impossible.
I think we pretty much know that defense needs to be improve or defense needs to defend against odd looking impossible angle that goes in 100% of the time. But the point is more like if the dev team is currently look into it or at least take notice of it. It's great that EA community manager is answering our post saying that there is always a need to improve goalies and saying to us that we need to defend better against weird goal that physically goalie shouldve stopped but could not. But it's more important for the user that the dev team is addressing the problem and not ignore it.
Your assuming again , playing good defense doesn't mean like in this game spamming your poke check or spamming your stick lift being in good position and cutting off angles and letting your Goalie read off of your position is also playing good defense so again he shouldn't have to bounce off the post and give up goals from impossible angles
Ya but it's also literally impossible for sticks and stuff to phase through defenders and for goalies of that calibre to not learn from their mistakes in the real world.
The fact you can easily pull off tucks against people who aren't defender builds, even if they are in the right position for incidental pickups, is a tad concerning as well, wouldn't you say?
Hmmm. By this logic any and all moves pulled on the breakaway should result in a goal every time. AI goalies should never stop a breakaway shot ... because hey, you gave up a breakaway. Too bad so sad, puck automatically goes in the net.
I guess I can’t be surprised this is where EA still is on the realism spectrum. How many real NHL games have you seen a breakaway one-handed tuck pulled off successfully, let alone repeatedly in one game? You know how much different absurd stuff can happen in a given NHL game, but is seldomly repeated successfully? A LOT. But, purposefully or otherwise, EA has a knack for taking that super rare stuff and making it a gimme in their game, and has done this historically. There has been a different version of it every year. And every year we ask why they program the goalies to be incapable of defending a certain, not particularly difficult and super-rarely successful-in-real-life move over and over again. I have to assume the response is they don’t know how to not leave a gap or a glitch somewhere in the programming. It just seems that the technology in this age is there and it should be feasible to have learning goalies who are not fooled in the same ways over and over like they are the guy from Momento with no short term memory. It kinda kills creativity and diversity in this game and helps make it stale (rinse/repeat) pretty quickly, not to mention increases the silly factor. And this one has been a thing since LAST year. The reason it hasn’t been fixed just can’t be that the Devs think it’s a realistic way a huge percentage of goals are scored in the NHL ... At least I hope not.
For some simulation fans, they may not mind randomness because they just want to be playing along as the game simulates what they see on tv or at the real world arena almost regardless of what they do on the controller. They want to see the exact amount of one hand tucks they see in a season and they want to see Ovechkin bury wheel house one timers at the rate he does in real life.
Some competitive players want to know that their success and failure comes down to their personal ability on the sticks to the point that they don’t even want attributes or the players they are attempting the moves with to have any impact at all and see randomness and variance due to those types of things as killing competitive balance.
If someone gives up a breakaway, it isn’t great in a competitive game if out of randomness a goalie bails their team out despite a perfectly pulled off move by the opposition. And in saying that, nothing is scripted to ensure it works one way or the other— all of the models are uniquely tuned and we just try to ensure that players do have control and that there are players out there demonstrating mastery in mechanics on both sides of the puck and that those things create tight games when evenly matched up.
There are plenty of people out there that can’t pull off a one hand deke or score on a breakaway in the game at all and there are also very clutch players that if given room, expect to score. And on the flip side, there are teams that give up 5 breakaways a game while others don’t give one up over the course of 10 games.
On PS4 right now in the top 100 leaderboards, breakaway percentages range from as low as 3.5 percent up to 43.9 percent with 60-70 percent of the players on the list falling in the 20-30 percent success range.
So when people have issues with parts of the game, we listen to the feedback but we also weigh it back against how others are fairing with the controls/tools and balance of the game as well. And that is where we talk about skill gaps and a players ability to get better with a mechanic (ie trip people much less but still be a shutdown defender using your stick a lot as one of your prime tools) or play better positionally and in recovery (ie not give up breakaways or chances for players to pull off moves in and around the net)
So all that said, yes, we continue to look at the one hand tuck due to the perception around it but before that move was a main callout, people still had issues with base backhand to forehand dekes as well so it isn’t just the move necessarily. For the tuck, I would like to see it most successful when it is done very smooth when you get the goalie going one way and put it back against their momentum before they can recover. I don’t prefer the ones that just get extra leverage but looks like the goalie was balanced enough they may have been able to push over and get the puck — but again some players aren’t giving these up much at all due to the way they play defense and the room they give their opponents.
We were talking about some of this sort of thing before in the link below. We are always watching these things closely. Some of the extra comments and things said in this previous thread may have more info that is relevant but at a high level it’s the same theory/philosophy of design.