The dump and chase is not a viable tactic in EASHL.
The best teams in the world don't ever use the dump and chase against other strong teams. Why is that? Simply because it's ineffective. The best way to currently play defense in this game is to stack 5 along the blue and prevent the entry at all costs. What is the best current way to counter that? L2/LT abuse and unrealistic dangling. A well positioned team will scatter all 5 along the line and wait for the opposition to skate into them. Now why do they do this and play such an aggressive style at the line?
Simply because the dump and chase is not viable. In real life it's a great tactic to get in behind the defense if they're stepping up too often, but in this game, acceleration is unrealistically high, thus allowing defenders to pivot and still beat a streaming offense to the puck along the wall.
Here's a clip of 2 of some of the best EASHL teams in the world. Recognize that there isn't a single dump in? There's the odd lateral pass at the line, but mostly entering the zone is done via either a counter attack or some form of backskating with dangling. Notice how few of times that the puck is rung along the end wall. Hardly at all, right?
@20:29, you can actually see a dump in and still they're not to the puck first. Defense can pivot and catch speed unbelievably fast in this game.
The acceleration is simply too fast, which allows teams to get back into a trap too quickly and to also play far too aggressive at the line in comparison the real life. This should be tweaked to optimize balance and encourage teamplay.
Please consider @NHLDev
Thanks!
Simply because the dump and chase is not viable. In real life it's a great tactic to get in behind the defense if they're stepping up too often, but in this game, acceleration is unrealistically high, thus allowing defenders to pivot and still beat a streaming offense to the puck along the wall.
Here's a clip of 2 of some of the best EASHL teams in the world. Recognize that there isn't a single dump in? There's the odd lateral pass at the line, but mostly entering the zone is done via either a counter attack or some form of backskating with dangling. Notice how few of times that the puck is rung along the end wall. Hardly at all, right?
@20:29, you can actually see a dump in and still they're not to the puck first. Defense can pivot and catch speed unbelievably fast in this game.
The acceleration is simply too fast, which allows teams to get back into a trap too quickly and to also play far too aggressive at the line in comparison the real life. This should be tweaked to optimize balance and encourage teamplay.
Please consider @NHLDev
Thanks!
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Problem is, the cpu ALWAYS dumps it when there is no hope in heck their humans can grab the puck. Usually playing against other 2/3 player teams, there is almost always another computer D from their team who already knows when the dump is happen and how fast it's gonna be.
Even if I hustle with my 5'7 169 sniper with the accel boost, the cpu will just do the auto match speed, pick up the puck and either just pass outright or hug the boards and pass out of it.
I've been begging/pleading/demanding a simple "no dump" option for people to use for years now
[Socair - edited swear filter]
I can use it on my own in Online VS by switching players so know that with all humans it is possible, just requires coordination.
It also isn’t about just getting to the puck first. It is also about getting a puck deep and putting pressure on that team deep in their zone and causing them to turn the puck back over or disrupt their ability to get possession clean in the first place.
That said we are looking at acceleration ability to different angles and how turning to accel behind you should take longer than it does to get going, etc.. That would help that further.
Many of those 6s teams will try and keep the puck and lose it multiple times in a row at the blue line though before considering other options so I wouldn’t say they do that because it’s more effective than dump and chase, it’s just how people play. With their skill level, they could have success even under the current tuning with a dump and chase strategy and I have seen it work well for the teams that use it.
Also would it be possible to have the boards create more friction when a player gets tight against it?
As the dev above stated, it is a usable strategy in a competitive 6v6 setting, as long as you don't do it every time down the ice, and it's coordinated with the other guys.
The reason you won't see it very much, is generally when you're playing 6v6 outside of these super competitive tourneys, it's seen as something of a cop out. Also, most of the players don't want to voluntarily give up possession of the puck. For me that's the main reason I don't use it much personally.
That being said, for my team (Entourage) it is a play that we use 2-4 times a games at least and it always works exceptionally well, because we don't try it every time, and it's called out so the wingers know to go chase it down.
Honestly though, in a video game setting, I wouldn't want dump and chase to be the first style/option everyone looks for. It's not the most exciting thing to watch, or play, but it is quite effective with a little bit of coordination
I posted this with the wrong email address, but yeah this was me. I couldn't delete it and re-post it with the right account
- accel is too high, especially pivot speed (it was way better in the beta) hence seperation speed
- Dmen usually get to the puck first on dumps now, but it usually bounces a bit or is hard for them to get clean possession and a guy is right on them when they do
The steps of a dump to beat a trap effectively is
- call out the dump
- time the dump with forechecks crossing blue line
- get the puck in deep
- pressure the puck
- non puck pressure player(s) take away their passing options, forcing an in zone turn over)
Thanks for the insight. As somebody who knows how good of a player you are (and obviously because you're on one of those elite teams), it's great to hear your feedback on the matter. Out of curiosity though why do you think it's seen as something of a cop out?
Thanks for the reply! And I do actually agree with you for the most part. The whole point of the discussion was to really discuss the acceleration gained from movement such as you stated so it's great to hear that you're already on it. Overall in the grand scheme of things I do think it's minor, but it definitely will enhance skill gap and I think in a sense it'll get guys playing the right way if it is tuned down a bit. Changing direction from a 180 degree angle and same with the stop and starts could use a bit of an adjustment in my opinion but I think we share a similar outlook on that.
It just happens to be easier in this game to enter the zone by skating and passing. This year has seen a great increase in "around the horn" icing plays that remove "no-touch icing" from the possibilities due to the iced puck crossing back over the goal line. This is very effective.
Edit: If an iced puck crosses back over the goal line it must be touched by the defensive team to get the icing call. So dump and chase from behind the red line around the horn very effective.
As was said above, dump in is possible but not really in the traditional sense. Like many things in these games, need to find out how to do something similar. And it's only ever effective on a well coordinated team as part of a strategic plan where these "plays" are only done a few times a game.
The opposing wingers pinch in and cut off the boards as a passing option while the centerman covers the center. It does work with a coordinated team. The main point of that tactic is to get defenders "on their heals" and force them to make a reactionary play instead of giving them time to analyze and make the right play without pressure.
However, throw a CPU defender in there and good luck getting the puck from him. So this happens mostly in dropins, but the point is, the CPU's are much too strong in a race for the puck.
A. They don't know how to properly do it.
B. The game mechanics were nerfed to make dumps sail over the glass nearly every time unless you do a specific dump in from a specific spot.
I use dump-n-chase in every game I play. My team also uses it from time to time when we come up against a team that likes to clog their blue line to prevent someone from carrying the puck into their zone. The point of the dump-n-chase is not to keep possession of the puck necessarily, but to prevent the other team from causing a turn-over at their blue line and potentially go the other way with a man advantage.
The other issue why most "top" teams don't use it is because they think in terms of puck possession. They think that in order to "win" they need to keep possession of the puck 100% of the time. Wise Fools! Hockey is about more than keeping possession of the puck. Unfortunately this game is more and more being pushed into this direction. Look at how the puck flows; it always deflects to an open player, never goes to a neutral area. Stick lifts = change of possession. Poke checks and hits = change of possession. Everything is about puck possession in this game.
Just like these "top" teams want... Ugh!
You prevent the other team from getting a takeaway but allow them to try and set up their own plays and recover stamina? That just doesn't sit well with me personally; my team has played some of its best D in years since switching back to Grinder builds but that doesn't mean we enjoy being forced into it.
A dedicated team against other humans allows for dumps to be successful but you'd be hard pressed to see it work when you mainly play against bots; the chase part of dump and chase almost always leaves you at the disadvantage.
The game needs a wider array of strategies to utilize - only then will regular hockey plays begin to make sense.