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Clearly scripted gameplay

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  • No, just no. That's kinda the point of this entire post, you can only control 1/6 players on your team at a time, that means at any given moment there is 5/6 players ready to follow a script and be glitched and there is nothing you can do about it.

    Vs top players if you manually counter 1 way they have 3 more that is impossible to counter because of this. You can only cover 1 thing at a time while the other 5 players are doing dumb illogical unreasonable AI stuff
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.

    It is irrelevant what I can force my opponent to do. What is relevant is almost all opponents go for the same plays all the time. Yes there are a few that change it up and try other things while others just rinse and repeat all game long. What is relevant is that this makes for a repetitive game regardless of the tactics you want to use.

    That is the point of the post. There are consistently 2-3 ways to score, yet again, you are placing it upon my shoulders to "change it". Again, it is irrelevant. EA's tuning and what is rewarded that is relevant.

    I am sorry, but all I see is yet again a dismissive response to defend with points that don't seem to fit very well in response to what I said. Just cherry picked portions, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    I don't think there's much we can do to stop people from going for the same plays. Nothing beyond adding some form of ice tilt that forces their shots to have less accuracy when they shoot from the same spots. Sure, goalies could pick up on someone doing the same thing repeatedly, but what happens when people figure out after X amount of shots, the goalie cheats to cover it and leaves the other side of the night wide open? People are going to be people. They're always going to look for a shortcut. Whether it's real hockey or virtual. They will look for the easiest ways to score.

    I'm not trying to be dismissive. I get the sentiment. I play 50+ games a week. Yes, it's repetitive, but I also love the competition. I love trying to improve my play and learn from the guys I lose to. I don't know how much more realistic I'd like this game to be. I wouldn't want it to be so difficult that it's more frustrating than fun. I would like to see people play a game that is more like real hockey. The higher up in divisions I get, the more I see that. I tend to play pretty aggressively and that sometimes leads to careless penalties and odd man rushes. I need to keep reminding myself to play more conservatively and be careful with the pokes. I'm not blaming the game for my own faults or even accusing it of forcing the other guy to win because I was on a good win streak. It's up to me to change things up and make it not so repetitive. It's also about adjusting to different levels of play because the competition is way different in D3+ than lower.

    There are more than 2 or 3 ways to score. If people are choosing to only score through those methods, that's up to them. Goal scoring is way more varied in EASHL than HUT. I see the most creative and realistic goals there. When you get 6 guys together with really good chemistry, amazing things happen. The more AI players you have, the more repetition you'll see as people will try to take advantage of them.

    Apologies if you thought I was being dismissive. That wasn't the intent. I imagine my posts are dismissed frequently purely because I work for EA and people don't want to believe us. I can understand how it feels to be dismissed for sure. Sorry for giving that impression.

    Shot accuracy is a little too high as it is. It is not normal that a player just wiggles to the high circles and gets rewarded with a wrister from 50 feet out. As long as it is rewarded as it is, it won't change. And yea yea I know it can be defended and it isn't even remotely the point, so please don't go there. The point is what is rewarded and how little effort or teamwork is required. An unscreened and settled goalie should hardly ever be giving up goals that are 50+ feet out. Should be a 99% failure rate as that is pretty much a terrible shot by hockey standards on a regular basis. Maybe the game should incorporate some sort of dynamic attributes along the lines of the closer you are to the net, the higher your shot accuracy goes or something like that. I am sure there is something along those lines already, but it needs to be more apparent. I have seen Playmakers and Two-Way forwards sniping top shelf off the post from over 50 feet out.... Those class of players should just be happy to hit the net. Snipers worst case scenario should force the goalie to make a half decent save in those situations. But to be scoring off the posts with that kind of regularity? Yea, that shouldn't happen.
    Also, screened shots are not realistic in the least. When a goalie is screened, he will generally drop into a blocking butterfly and hope the puck hits him. He won't react to the shot if he can't see it. But in the game, I have seen some really great screened shots only to see the goalie make an incredible limb save while completely opening up his body and basically exposing all 7 holes..... How is that logical? Even tipped shots the goalies generally exaggerated reflexes on a good portion of those shots. Most times shots are hard enough to get on net from the point because there is always a mass of players near the slot that block the shot.

    To be honest with you, I don't know how much more realistic I want this game to be either. But one thing I know, I would like to see teamwork matter more than currently. It is a team sport and all 5 players on the ice should matter more than a single puck carrier. I want AI players and AI goalies to have more situational awareness. At times it seems as though they don't even know where they are. They can skate right in front of you and slow you down. If they are down low in their zone, there are times that they still try to skate through your own goalie to cross over to the other side.

    But, maybe you have a point about weaknesses. Whatever is changed, players will adapt and find those 2-3 ways to score. But it's not really the scoring that bothers me. Rather, it's the build up, or the play that leads to the goal. Yea I know it's up to me to defend, or dictate as best as I can what options are available when I'm on defense. But despite that, most opponents go for the same plays all the time. Some try it right off the bat and are smart because once they realize you caught on to them, they change tactics. But once they catch on to your change, they go right back to the cheese plays. I am not saying it's a lose-lose scenario, but it's pretty damn close and more importantly, it's repetitive. The reason it's repetitive is because of the plays that the tuning rewards.

    As for the dismissive stuff..

    Look, I get it. You love the game. You take it for what it is now, and not for what it could be one day, or not for what it isn't. I get that, and you are totally entitled to think that way. I can generally enjoy the game as well on most occasions. There is a complete spectrum of player's opinion that go from the best game of all time, all the way to worst game of all time. Everyone is allowed to feel whatever it is they feel and obviously we all have different expectations and point of views. But with that being said, I can't help but feel you are being dismissive when I tell you the AI steps up near his crease to give an easy one-timer, your first and automatic reflex is to say it's on me to stop it. You seem to take for granted that I can't defend it, or that absolutely every single time the best play is to switch to that defender. Also implies I never have trouble switching to that desired D man every single time. And what about this happening in EASHL? The AI does it there too. I play to actually prevent that situation from happening, but it obviously happens at times and every now and then. Also, the main point of that is that you can see it happening as well in a cpu vs cpu game. You never even touched upon any of that but right away jumped on the "it's up to you to defend" train. That's where it feels dismissive and defending with cherry-picked portions. So I will say that if I feel you are being dismissive or anything, it has nothing to do with who you work for. I base only on the replies a person decides to type, regardless of who he works for.

    I also never blame the game for a loss, but to be honest, many many times I hear on the mic "we got EA'd" on a goal against. I have also seen way too many times a goal for us and I say to myself "Wow, that was a garbage goal". All that to say I am fair in my judgment. I am logical in my reasoning. I hate when the game seemingly gives a goal to my opponent, but I am equally annoyed, if not more, when I feel our team gets an "undeserved" or garbage goal.

    Anyways, before adding and retuning and revolutionizing anything, the programming needs to be cleaned and tightened up. Once everything absolutely works as intended, then it would be a much clearer decision on what needs to be changed, removed, or added down the road.
  • EA_Aljo
    953 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I don't agree.

    Yes, it's AI so it is inevitable they will have predictable patterns. But, that is also to your advantage as you can predict most times what they will do. For example, when I see an AI trying to carry the puck across my blue line, I line him up and lace into him knowing full well he will dump the puck just before I nail him. Every single time. If I don't nail him, then he will carry it into my zone and set up a passing play which is harder to contain.

    Predictability works both ways my friend.

    That is my point, 100% of the time, non user controled players, react the same 100% of the time no matter what. Factor that with the fact the user has very limited control of the game, as i said before only 10-20% that leaves very little non scripted play.

    If the game was 100% scripted, it would be exactly the same every time. And, as I've said before, you could put your controller down and let the game play out on its own if that were the case.

    AI players are responding to the strategies you set, the position of the players on the ice, the overalls they have and, most importantly, inputs from the human holding the controller. Also, as Wain mentioned, you'd be able to predict every movement they make and use that to your advantage.

    What trouble are you having exactly? Are you losing often and are thinking the computer has it out for you so they force you to lose?

    He isn't really saying it is scripted. If you read between the lines, it is more in line with the game being predictable and in single player modes, the AI tends to follow very familiar patterns, as if they are reading a script, if that makes sense.

    That makes sense, but a script is a static list of rules. AI players are reacting dynamically.

    But how dynamic can you argue it to be when it is incredibly predictable? How dynamic is it that on every rush near your goalie, your AI D man will hit the brakes and skate a step forward clearly giving a free pass to the slot? How many top shelf snipes happen from the face off circles? How many bh, fh, bh breakaways are a goal?

    Sorry to say, the AI is nowhere near as dynamic as you try to claim it to be. When was the last time the AI did a play and you said to yourself "wow, that's new".....

    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up. If you don't give up a breakaway, you avoid the bh fh bh. If you pressure the carrier or get in the way of the shot, you'll have a much better chance at stopping those snipes.

    Isn't one of the big arguments here about the lack of consistency? Now people are complaining it's too consistent? It's quite often we get conflicting feedback from you guys.

    We wouldn't want a game that played out exactly the same every time. While I agree people tend to use the same behaviors, that's not required. After all these years, veteran players have gotten used to what works for them. They also adapt as the game changes each year. Some things that worked before, don't now. There's a new meta every year and that's because people find what works best. Not because the game is following a script that no matter what you do, doesn't change.

    Never mind what humans are doing. When there is a logical problem in the AI's programming, then it is a problem regardless of what humans do or don't do. Sure you can skate around the problem (see what I did there) but it doesn't mean the problem can go away. It needs to be fixed. Just start the game and put AI vs AI and you will see the same issues, so what do you propose to fix that? Where is the human input to fix it as you suggest??

    You're also twisting things around about your "consistency" argument. You know very well this has absolutely nothing to do with the consistency complaints. There is a huge difference between predictable programming errors and poke checks that register sometimes, and for some reason, don't register at other times. Or when a player takes a big body check, yet it doesn't register at times and even having the head dev come here and say that hit should have registered, period. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or confusing here other than you are seemingly grasping at straws to make a point. Just because the AI is moving around on the ice is by no means an automatic definition of "dynamic AI". Same applies when you come here and tell us "It happens in real hockey, so it's logical here" and then the next day come here and say "It isn't a pure sim of the real sport. It is a video game". It's one or the other.

    Yea sure if I control my AI D then I prevent them from stepping up. Sure if I block every shot my goalie will have a good game. Yea sure if I never make a pass then my AI won't cough up the puck. Yea sure if my AI is always taking forever to send me the puck, then I won't have to call for it, but just before he passes I call for it therefore making a one-timer pass straight up the ice for a noob icing call. Yea sure if I never poke, I'll never get tripping calls.... Just because there is always some lame excuse to make up for shortcomings, does not mean it is fine nor should you imply it's upon us to always mitigate the game's shortcomings. Shortcomings need to be addressed, plain and simple and hopefully, in a timely manner.

    You say we wouldn't want to always play out the same way, yet, I am always defending the same 2-3 scoring attempts and meta plays....


    How about if I never play the game, then all its issues magically go away?

    If someone is going to rely on the same 2 or 3 ways to score, isn't it on you defend them and hopefully force them to look at other options?

    When you talk about consistency in that manner, I can see where I was wrong. Apologies for that. Bugs and glitches will always happen. Of course, it's on us to get those resolved.

    AI playing AI is a lot different than humans playing humans. They move the puck. They look for open lanes. They don't just force cross-crease passes and go for the short side. It's a lot more like real hockey than most people play. They are conscious of the traffic in front of the net so they can take advantage of screens and tips. People find what works and tend to stick to it. The AI plays according to what they're opponent is doing. I too see humans try the same things over and over again. They're more predictable than AI players. It's on me to shut them down. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. That's part of the skill in this game.

    Many of the things people complain about also happen in real hockey. That's correct. That said, yes, it's a video game so bugs and glitches are going to happen. It's also a more forgiving game than real hockey. It could be made to be more difficult. That's been done in the past and wasn't super well received. Maybe we need to lower shot accuracy so it's harder to score. That's not going to stop people from finding good ways to score though. We'll probably then get more complaints about cross-crease one timers being overpowered. My point is, now matter how easy/difficult the game is, we'll never make everyone happy. The dev team continues to listen and act on feedback from the community. However, when there are things that are completely false like assumptions of scripting, all we can do is give you the truth that it doesn't exist.

    It is irrelevant what I can force my opponent to do. What is relevant is almost all opponents go for the same plays all the time. Yes there are a few that change it up and try other things while others just rinse and repeat all game long. What is relevant is that this makes for a repetitive game regardless of the tactics you want to use.

    That is the point of the post. There are consistently 2-3 ways to score, yet again, you are placing it upon my shoulders to "change it". Again, it is irrelevant. EA's tuning and what is rewarded that is relevant.

    I am sorry, but all I see is yet again a dismissive response to defend with points that don't seem to fit very well in response to what I said. Just cherry picked portions, but you are entitled to your opinion.

    I don't think there's much we can do to stop people from going for the same plays. Nothing beyond adding some form of ice tilt that forces their shots to have less accuracy when they shoot from the same spots. Sure, goalies could pick up on someone doing the same thing repeatedly, but what happens when people figure out after X amount of shots, the goalie cheats to cover it and leaves the other side of the night wide open? People are going to be people. They're always going to look for a shortcut. Whether it's real hockey or virtual. They will look for the easiest ways to score.

    I'm not trying to be dismissive. I get the sentiment. I play 50+ games a week. Yes, it's repetitive, but I also love the competition. I love trying to improve my play and learn from the guys I lose to. I don't know how much more realistic I'd like this game to be. I wouldn't want it to be so difficult that it's more frustrating than fun. I would like to see people play a game that is more like real hockey. The higher up in divisions I get, the more I see that. I tend to play pretty aggressively and that sometimes leads to careless penalties and odd man rushes. I need to keep reminding myself to play more conservatively and be careful with the pokes. I'm not blaming the game for my own faults or even accusing it of forcing the other guy to win because I was on a good win streak. It's up to me to change things up and make it not so repetitive. It's also about adjusting to different levels of play because the competition is way different in D3+ than lower.

    There are more than 2 or 3 ways to score. If people are choosing to only score through those methods, that's up to them. Goal scoring is way more varied in EASHL than HUT. I see the most creative and realistic goals there. When you get 6 guys together with really good chemistry, amazing things happen. The more AI players you have, the more repetition you'll see as people will try to take advantage of them.

    Apologies if you thought I was being dismissive. That wasn't the intent. I imagine my posts are dismissed frequently purely because I work for EA and people don't want to believe us. I can understand how it feels to be dismissed for sure. Sorry for giving that impression.

    Shot accuracy is a little too high as it is. It is not normal that a player just wiggles to the high circles and gets rewarded with a wrister from 50 feet out. As long as it is rewarded as it is, it won't change. And yea yea I know it can be defended and it isn't even remotely the point, so please don't go there. The point is what is rewarded and how little effort or teamwork is required. An unscreened and settled goalie should hardly ever be giving up goals that are 50+ feet out. Should be a 99% failure rate as that is pretty much a terrible shot by hockey standards on a regular basis. Maybe the game should incorporate some sort of dynamic attributes along the lines of the closer you are to the net, the higher your shot accuracy goes or something like that. I am sure there is something along those lines already, but it needs to be more apparent. I have seen Playmakers and Two-Way forwards sniping top shelf off the post from over 50 feet out.... Those class of players should just be happy to hit the net. Snipers worst case scenario should force the goalie to make a half decent save in those situations. But to be scoring off the posts with that kind of regularity? Yea, that shouldn't happen.
    Also, screened shots are not realistic in the least. When a goalie is screened, he will generally drop into a blocking butterfly and hope the puck hits him. He won't react to the shot if he can't see it. But in the game, I have seen some really great screened shots only to see the goalie make an incredible limb save while completely opening up his body and basically exposing all 7 holes..... How is that logical? Even tipped shots the goalies generally exaggerated reflexes on a good portion of those shots. Most times shots are hard enough to get on net from the point because there is always a mass of players near the slot that block the shot.

    To be honest with you, I don't know how much more realistic I want this game to be either. But one thing I know, I would like to see teamwork matter more than currently. It is a team sport and all 5 players on the ice should matter more than a single puck carrier. I want AI players and AI goalies to have more situational awareness. At times it seems as though they don't even know where they are. They can skate right in front of you and slow you down. If they are down low in their zone, there are times that they still try to skate through your own goalie to cross over to the other side.

    But, maybe you have a point about weaknesses. Whatever is changed, players will adapt and find those 2-3 ways to score. But it's not really the scoring that bothers me. Rather, it's the build up, or the play that leads to the goal. Yea I know it's up to me to defend, or dictate as best as I can what options are available when I'm on defense. But despite that, most opponents go for the same plays all the time. Some try it right off the bat and are smart because once they realize you caught on to them, they change tactics. But once they catch on to your change, they go right back to the cheese plays. I am not saying it's a lose-lose scenario, but it's pretty damn close and more importantly, it's repetitive. The reason it's repetitive is because of the plays that the tuning rewards.

    As for the dismissive stuff..

    Look, I get it. You love the game. You take it for what it is now, and not for what it could be one day, or not for what it isn't. I get that, and you are totally entitled to think that way. I can generally enjoy the game as well on most occasions. There is a complete spectrum of player's opinion that go from the best game of all time, all the way to worst game of all time. Everyone is allowed to feel whatever it is they feel and obviously we all have different expectations and point of views. But with that being said, I can't help but feel you are being dismissive when I tell you the AI steps up near his crease to give an easy one-timer, your first and automatic reflex is to say it's on me to stop it. You seem to take for granted that I can't defend it, or that absolutely every single time the best play is to switch to that defender. Also implies I never have trouble switching to that desired D man every single time. And what about this happening in EASHL? The AI does it there too. I play to actually prevent that situation from happening, but it obviously happens at times and every now and then. Also, the main point of that is that you can see it happening as well in a cpu vs cpu game. You never even touched upon any of that but right away jumped on the "it's up to you to defend" train. That's where it feels dismissive and defending with cherry-picked portions. So I will say that if I feel you are being dismissive or anything, it has nothing to do with who you work for. I base only on the replies a person decides to type, regardless of who he works for.

    I also never blame the game for a loss, but to be honest, many many times I hear on the mic "we got EA'd" on a goal against. I have also seen way too many times a goal for us and I say to myself "Wow, that was a garbage goal". All that to say I am fair in my judgment. I am logical in my reasoning. I hate when the game seemingly gives a goal to my opponent, but I am equally annoyed, if not more, when I feel our team gets an "undeserved" or garbage goal.

    Anyways, before adding and retuning and revolutionizing anything, the programming needs to be cleaned and tightened up. Once everything absolutely works as intended, then it would be a much clearer decision on what needs to be changed, removed, or added down the road.

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    I think about the future of this game also, but I talk about what you can do now as opposed to what might be possible down the road. I'm trying to help people understand how the game works today so they can hopefully play better. We definitely want to hear thoughts on what you want to see improve, but that doesn't change anything today. So, if I'm sounding dismissive, it's not that I don't want the same changes you do, but I know they aren't happening today so I focus on what can be done now to hopefully give you a better experience. So, when I say something can be defended, I'm talking about how you can handle that in today's game because the reality is, if we see changes to the AI, that most likely won't be happening until a future game. That doesn't mean I'm saying it's perfect now and doesn't need to be changed.

    I get the undeserved goals. I too have heard many times about getting EA'd. Most of the time I can see why it happened though. So, while they say EA'd because a puck trickles in, I can see there was a defensive breakdown that caused it to happen. Unfortunate goals aren't fun. You want them all to look like legit hockey goals. However, so many goals in real games aren't highlight-reel worthy. They're greasy or muffins or go off a defender. These things happen. In our game though, it turns into blaming the game for it happening. I understand you aren't, but many do. Not just with goals, but bad passes, penalties, etc. There's little accountability for a person's own play and the game is an easy scapegoat for that.

    I do love this game. You're right about that, but that doesn't mean I think it's perfect. It's my love of this game for the last 20+ years drove me to work here. I have very similar issues to the rest of the community, but I'm also realistic with my expectations due to my experience working here. I also don't have the bias (not that you do) that nobody here cares about hockey or what the community says. Those couldn't be further from the truth
  • Steven5470
    328 posts Member
    edited March 22
    Late to the conver, but I do feel a lot of the game is scripted. Entirely? No. But a lot is to create that "just like real hockey" feel. Several times you go to lay a check on someone and magically miss, only to have a sudden 2 v 1 breakout, which leads to the CPU scoring. This happens quite frequently and seems to be the same type of thing. AI is against the wall, you go to check, you magically miss him even though you are lined up, he gets the puck, passes...2v1 and now a goal for the AI.

    When there is under a minute to play, a team will score in 95% of the games.

    Started a game as Wash. I was position locked (which I don't think is correctly working). I played against NJ who has a goalie OVR rating of 77 and offense of like a 85. Game starts and BAM! Felt like I was playing an All Star team. NJ with low ratings, but passing like superstars and scoring like crazy....but pass accuracy at 5??

    Annoyed with the fact I felt like I was playing the CPU and no NJ, I clicked quit and did rematch.

    Night and day. Now my team is up 3-0 end of the first...playing like they should. It felt more natural and not scripted. NJ was playing to their ratings now. Now, a LONG time ago, there was an EA PC NHL game where the outcome was pretty much decided at drop of the puck. If you went to menu and clicked restart, the exact same things would happen in game. You had to quit to the main menu, then restart, to get a different outcome.

    That is what this game feels like sometimes and what others have mentioned. Soon as you start the game, you almost know what is going to happen or who will win. Numerous times playing this game I could yell out what would happen next and be correct. Miss a check and 2v1 breakaway? Goal. Last minute of play if you're up by one? CPU will most likely score. You're up by a goal? You'll get a penalty which will then allow the CPU to score. Didi I mention the CPU and CPU Teammates penalty slider is at 30 each but my team gets all the penalties even though I'm on position lock???

    All I want is this game to play to the player ratings and not some underlying script or "let's make the game even". The "even playing field" option exists in Madden 20 and Fifa 20 . Heck, someone found an *.ini file in a FIFA PC game and saw code basically saying to slow your team down if you're winning! Who's to say we won't see an option to enable / disable this next year.
  • NHLDev
    1652 posts EA NHL Developer
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Late to the conver, but I do feel a lot of the game is scripted. Entirely? No. But a lot is to create that "just like real hockey" feel. Several times you go to lay a check on someone and magically miss, only to have a sudden 2 v 1 breakout, which leads to the CPU scoring. This happens quite frequently and seems to be the same type of thing. AI is against the wall, you go to check, you magically miss him even though you are lined up, he gets the puck, passes...2v1 and now a goal for the AI.

    When there is under a minute to play, a team will score in 95% of the games.

    Started a game as Wash. I was position locked (which I don't think is correctly working). I played against NJ who has a goalie OVR rating of 77 and offense of like a 85. Game starts and BAM! Felt like I was playing an All Star team. NJ with low ratings, but passing like superstars and scoring like crazy....but pass accuracy at 5??

    Annoyed with the fact I felt like I was playing the CPU and no NJ, I clicked quit and did rematch.

    Night and day. Now my team is up 3-0 end of the first...playing like they should. It felt more natural and not scripted. NJ was playing to their ratings now. Now, a LONG time ago, there was an EA PC NHL game where the outcome was pretty much decided at drop of the puck. If you went to menu and clicked restart, the exact same things would happen in game. You had to quit to the main menu, then restart, to get a different outcome.

    That is what this game feels like sometimes and what others have mentioned. Soon as you start the game, you almost know what is going to happen or who will win. Numerous times playing this game I could yell out what would happen next and be correct. Miss a check and 2v1 breakaway? Goal. Last minute of play if you're up by one? CPU will most likely score. You're up by a goal? You'll get a penalty which will then allow the CPU to score. Didi I mention the CPU and CPU Teammates penalty slider is at 30 each but my team gets all the penalties even though I'm on position lock???

    All I want is this game to play to the player ratings and not some underlying script or "let's make the game even". The "even playing field" option exists in Madden 20 and Fifa 20 . Heck, someone found an *.ini file in a FIFA PC game and saw code basically saying to slow your team down if you're winning! Who's to say we won't see an option to enable / disable this next year.

    I know I won't convince you of all your theories but one thing to remember is that the last minute is real time so when someone says that they see a lot of goals in the last minute, that is similar to saying there are lot of goals scored between the 12th and 17th minute of the period. And that is without even considering the urgency that increases to score and the chances they will take with higher pressure when down one late in a game.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Late to the conver, but I do feel a lot of the game is scripted. Entirely? No. But a lot is to create that "just like real hockey" feel. Several times you go to lay a check on someone and magically miss, only to have a sudden 2 v 1 breakout, which leads to the CPU scoring. This happens quite frequently and seems to be the same type of thing. AI is against the wall, you go to check, you magically miss him even though you are lined up, he gets the puck, passes...2v1 and now a goal for the AI.

    When there is under a minute to play, a team will score in 95% of the games.

    Started a game as Wash. I was position locked (which I don't think is correctly working). I played against NJ who has a goalie OVR rating of 77 and offense of like a 85. Game starts and BAM! Felt like I was playing an All Star team. NJ with low ratings, but passing like superstars and scoring like crazy....but pass accuracy at 5??

    Annoyed with the fact I felt like I was playing the CPU and no NJ, I clicked quit and did rematch.

    Night and day. Now my team is up 3-0 end of the first...playing like they should. It felt more natural and not scripted. NJ was playing to their ratings now. Now, a LONG time ago, there was an EA PC NHL game where the outcome was pretty much decided at drop of the puck. If you went to menu and clicked restart, the exact same things would happen in game. You had to quit to the main menu, then restart, to get a different outcome.

    That is what this game feels like sometimes and what others have mentioned. Soon as you start the game, you almost know what is going to happen or who will win. Numerous times playing this game I could yell out what would happen next and be correct. Miss a check and 2v1 breakaway? Goal. Last minute of play if you're up by one? CPU will most likely score. You're up by a goal? You'll get a penalty which will then allow the CPU to score. Didi I mention the CPU and CPU Teammates penalty slider is at 30 each but my team gets all the penalties even though I'm on position lock???

    All I want is this game to play to the player ratings and not some underlying script or "let's make the game even". The "even playing field" option exists in Madden 20 and Fifa 20 . Heck, someone found an *.ini file in a FIFA PC game and saw code basically saying to slow your team down if you're winning! Who's to say we won't see an option to enable / disable this next year.

    I know I won't convince you of all your theories but one thing to remember is that the last minute is real time so when someone says that they see a lot of goals in the last minute, that is similar to saying there are lot of goals scored between the 12th and 17th minute of the period. And that is without even considering the urgency that increases to score and the chances they will take with higher pressure when down one late in a game.

    Heres the thing though....if i can predict nearly every time when the a.i. is going to score, something isnt right. No matter how good of d you play, they WILL score. I had agame last night..up by 1 , 40 sec to go....1 of their wingers enters the zone by himself with 3 of my skaters back. All 3 swarmed him while he went straight down the middle, poking, bumping, and stick lifting....he bounced around like a pinball between us and u kept hearing "tick" of stick on stick contact....but somehow this guy gets a shot off with 3 guys pestering him.....slowest shot ever...ON THE ICE RIGHT AT THE GOALIE....whats the goalie do? Stay in butterfly til just before the puck hits him then OPENS THE 5 HOLE and follows the puck with his head as he watches it slowly trickle in instead of gloving it or closing 5 hole. These things happen way too often and make the game feel cheap lije it cheated you. Thats why people still believe in tilt.....because the ai is so bad we have a hard time believing they're actually programmed so terribly, that they blame other things...

    Either way, its a huge problem and has been for years now. Just my two cents.

  • Heres the thing though....if i can predict nearly every time when the a.i. is going to score, something isnt right. No matter how good of d you play, they WILL score. I had agame last night..up by 1 , 40 sec to go....1 of their wingers enters the zone by himself with 3 of my skaters back. All 3 swarmed him while he went straight down the middle, poking, bumping, and stick lifting....he bounced around like a pinball between us and u kept hearing "tick" of stick on stick contact....but somehow this guy gets a shot off with 3 guys pestering him.....slowest shot ever...ON THE ICE RIGHT AT THE GOALIE....whats the goalie do? Stay in butterfly til just before the puck hits him then OPENS THE 5 HOLE and follows the puck with his head as he watches it slowly trickle in instead of gloving it or closing 5 hole. These things happen way too often and make the game feel cheap lije it cheated you. Thats why people still believe in tilt.....because the ai is so bad we have a hard time believing they're actually programmed so terribly, that they blame other things...

    Either way, its a huge problem and has been for years now. Just my two cents.

    This. 100%. As I mentioned, you can pretty much figure out when the CPU will score. And the last minute of play being more than a minute, IMO, was a terrible decision to make it play full time. It completely takes away the sim aspect. You're playing a great game, holding them off, thinking only 30s left...and they score because there is really about 5m left. It's unrealistic and ruins a lot of what the user accomplished in the game.

    The entire game needs a redo. Last night, I even put the CPU penalties at 100 and CPU teammate penalties at 0. Guess what happened? They got a Power Play! How many did I get? None. Zilch. Probably worst AI I've seen in this series in years.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Steven5470 wrote: »
    Late to the conver, but I do feel a lot of the game is scripted. Entirely? No. But a lot is to create that "just like real hockey" feel. Several times you go to lay a check on someone and magically miss, only to have a sudden 2 v 1 breakout, which leads to the CPU scoring. This happens quite frequently and seems to be the same type of thing. AI is against the wall, you go to check, you magically miss him even though you are lined up, he gets the puck, passes...2v1 and now a goal for the AI.

    When there is under a minute to play, a team will score in 95% of the games.

    Started a game as Wash. I was position locked (which I don't think is correctly working). I played against NJ who has a goalie OVR rating of 77 and offense of like a 85. Game starts and BAM! Felt like I was playing an All Star team. NJ with low ratings, but passing like superstars and scoring like crazy....but pass accuracy at 5??

    Annoyed with the fact I felt like I was playing the CPU and no NJ, I clicked quit and did rematch.

    Night and day. Now my team is up 3-0 end of the first...playing like they should. It felt more natural and not scripted. NJ was playing to their ratings now. Now, a LONG time ago, there was an EA PC NHL game where the outcome was pretty much decided at drop of the puck. If you went to menu and clicked restart, the exact same things would happen in game. You had to quit to the main menu, then restart, to get a different outcome.

    That is what this game feels like sometimes and what others have mentioned. Soon as you start the game, you almost know what is going to happen or who will win. Numerous times playing this game I could yell out what would happen next and be correct. Miss a check and 2v1 breakaway? Goal. Last minute of play if you're up by one? CPU will most likely score. You're up by a goal? You'll get a penalty which will then allow the CPU to score. Didi I mention the CPU and CPU Teammates penalty slider is at 30 each but my team gets all the penalties even though I'm on position lock???

    All I want is this game to play to the player ratings and not some underlying script or "let's make the game even". The "even playing field" option exists in Madden 20 and Fifa 20 . Heck, someone found an *.ini file in a FIFA PC game and saw code basically saying to slow your team down if you're winning! Who's to say we won't see an option to enable / disable this next year.

    I know I won't convince you of all your theories but one thing to remember is that the last minute is real time so when someone says that they see a lot of goals in the last minute, that is similar to saying there are lot of goals scored between the 12th and 17th minute of the period. And that is without even considering the urgency that increases to score and the chances they will take with higher pressure when down one late in a game.

    @NHLDev (correct me if I’m wrong) do players and goalies still have a poise attribute? Or is it called clutch? I know it was in older versions.

  • @NHLDev (correct me if I’m wrong) do players and goalies still have a poise attribute? Or is it called clutch? I know it was in older versions.

    It's a 'poise' attribute but is only used in simulating, not actual game play.
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    edited March 25
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sure, goalies could pick up on someone doing the same thing repeatedly, but what happens when people figure out after X amount of shots, the goalie cheats to cover it and leaves the other side of the night wide open?

    The most obvious change you could make in goalie programming - something that people have been asking for for many years on here - is to allow the goalies to learn. If a player consistently shoots short-side high wristers - as just about everybody in HUT does - it makes no sense for the goalie to continue to drop down and leave that high shot open. I know that's to cover the 5-hole, but given that no one ever shoots 5-hole, it's pointless. But the devs have kept this in the game all along, presumably because it makes it easier to score.

    If goalies actually paid attention to and learned from shooters' tendencies, the game would become much more of a chess match, just like real life: should I go 5-hole this time? Instead, it's just rinse-and-repeat: come down, try to get to the high slot, fire wrister high stick or high glove.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    Wow I still can't believe they're still blaming the player for this ...let's take this from the top once again , when you switch to the D man he still has to complete the action of going forward before you can take full control of him ,like I've been saying all along this and the goalies not covering the puck has been done intentionally ,hey gotta be able to use those new stupid celebrations
  • EA_Aljo
    953 posts EA Community Manager
    edited March 25
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    Unfortunately your suggestion doesn’t help fully CPU-controlled teams who constantly fall into this trap or rush 3 at the puck carrier on the PK which also exposes the slot.

    They’ve been able to be manipulated on center drives into the zone on rushes for years. Not NHL 20 exclusive, so it’d be nice to see the CPU at least get beat by speed or passing in these scenarios rather than by just stopping still.

    A few times a game I have to just not make a backdoor pass because it’s too easy and I know what happened to lead to my teammate getting that wide-open. It’s really disappointing.
  • bryta47
    278 posts Member
    Yeah, this is a game breaking problem offline against the CPU.
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    I still don't know what you mean by "controlling the defense" - are you talking about controlling the off-the-puck defenseman? Because yes, that does keep the off-the-puck defenseman from stepping up, but it also means that you can't control the defenseman who's on the puck carrier. Which honestly feels so weak.
  • EA_Aljo
    953 posts EA Community Manager
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    I still don't know what you mean by "controlling the defense" - are you talking about controlling the off-the-puck defenseman? Because yes, that does keep the off-the-puck defenseman from stepping up, but it also means that you can't control the defenseman who's on the puck carrier. Which honestly feels so weak.

    I'm talking about taking control early enough so you can pressure the carrier and force them to look at other options than crossing or just causing a turnover in general. It depends on the situation. I've been burned by the D stepping up and it's frustrating for sure, but it's not happening in every game for me, but that's also probably due to taking away that option.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    I still don't know what you mean by "controlling the defense" - are you talking about controlling the off-the-puck defenseman? Because yes, that does keep the off-the-puck defenseman from stepping up, but it also means that you can't control the defenseman who's on the puck carrier. Which honestly feels so weak.

    The only way to prevent this which is so stupid ,is take the off the puck d man bring him quickly to the front of the net then switch back the the other d man to pressure the puck carrier ,but if you get a guy that knows what he's doing with that stupid self sauce pass that yet has been addressed he'll probably go right by you so again fix this because it's not the players fault that the game is broken
  • NHLDev
    1652 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited March 26
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    I still don't know what you mean by "controlling the defense" - are you talking about controlling the off-the-puck defenseman? Because yes, that does keep the off-the-puck defenseman from stepping up, but it also means that you can't control the defenseman who's on the puck carrier. Which honestly feels so weak.

    The only way to prevent this which is so stupid ,is take the off the puck d man bring him quickly to the front of the net then switch back the the other d man to pressure the puck carrier ,but if you get a guy that knows what he's doing with that stupid self sauce pass that yet has been addressed he'll probably go right by you so again fix this because it's not the players fault that the game is broken

    We have been working on improvements for both of these things. Self sauce, just so everyone is aware doesn't give your player a speed boost or anything -- if anything it can slow you down depending on the pickup you get after releasing it or could cause a turnover if you aren't delicate enough with it. So from a speed perspective you are better just to hustle. It does however cause some issues with loose puck ai so can cause the most issues for ai players so that is why we are looking at that and our assessment of 'guarding pass lanes'. Our players are too aggressive in trying to cut off the early one timer pass that they can give up a later tap in one timer behind them depending on how things play out. We fixed a few issues around it in our last update and a few more rare issues than that still exist.

    The ai defense is more likely to do that when the strong side defender gets burned as they are then considering the puck carrier and the pass lane and are more urgent in their decision making as the puck carrier is no longer contained properly. This is why some believe they can control it more or see it less than others because they may play better on puck defense and when the puck carrier becomes less of a threat (ie drives wide or goes below the goal line) they may switch to guard the pass or drop off their close gap with the puck carrier and take the pass lane that way as well.

    Either way, we are looking at it and it won't change until if and when an update goes live so in the meantime you can accept others advice on best current tactics (and there are tons of players shutting players out still) and also know we have heard the pieces that you all want us to improve.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Those actions are based on what the humans are doing. If you control your defense, you avoid them stepping up.

    What are you talking about? Are you actually saying if you play on-the-puck defense it's your fault that your off-the-puck defenseman is going to idiotically step up and let the backside winger in for an easy tap-in? That's just an indefensible argument to make.

    Why are you defending this clear example of scripted idiocy by the AI? And why in God's name have the developers not fixed it, more than six months after the game was released?

    That's not what I'm saying. I've seen what you're talking about occur and I agree it's frustrating. It's just not one that is very common with me. What I'm saying is that you have a better chance of defending that play by controlling the defense. I'm agreeing with you, but I'm suggesting how you can help avoid that play from happening with the current version of the game because we don't have any information on if/when this will be addressed.

    I still don't know what you mean by "controlling the defense" - are you talking about controlling the off-the-puck defenseman? Because yes, that does keep the off-the-puck defenseman from stepping up, but it also means that you can't control the defenseman who's on the puck carrier. Which honestly feels so weak.

    The only way to prevent this which is so stupid ,is take the off the puck d man bring him quickly to the front of the net then switch back the the other d man to pressure the puck carrier ,but if you get a guy that knows what he's doing with that stupid self sauce pass that yet has been addressed he'll probably go right by you so again fix this because it's not the players fault that the game is broken

    We have been working on improvements for both of these things. Self sauce, just so everyone is aware doesn't give your player a speed boost or anything -- if anything it can slow you down depending on the pickup you get after releasing it or could cause a turnover if you aren't delicate enough with it. So from a speed perspective you are better just to hustle. It does however cause some issues with loose puck ai so can cause the most issues for ai players so that is why we are looking at that and our assessment of 'guarding pass lanes'. Our players are too aggressive in trying to cut off the early one timer pass that they can give up a later tap in one timer behind them depending on how things play out. We fixed a few issues around it in our last update and a few more rare issues than that still exist.

    The ai defense is more likely to do that when the strong side defender gets burned as they are then considering the puck carrier and the pass lane and are more urgent in their decision making as the puck carrier is no longer contained properly. This is why some believe they can control it more or see it less than others because they may play better on puck defense and when the puck carrier becomes less of a threat (ie drives wide or goes below the goal line) they may switch to guard the pass or drop off their close gap with the puck carrier and take the pass lane that way as well.

    Either way, we are looking at it and it won't change until if and when an update goes live so in the meantime you can accept others advice on best current tactics (and there are tons of players shutting players out still) and also know we have heard the pieces that you all want us to improve.

    I’d be interested to see how the AI define “getting burned” and “no longer containing him properly” as I’ve been saying for years that the AI have a much more strict interpretation of positioning than a real user would which leads to them over-committing and quick to leave their assignments. Just watching how they react, the scenarios when it happens, and the angles they take, I’m 100% convinced it’s more to due with their interpretations of positing than their actual ability to position themselves properly if that makes sense.

    There’s a reason why AI EASHL D partners are insufferable to play with. As soon as you let a guy go wide on you, knowing that even if he’s a half a step ahead of you on the outside you still can beat him back to the post, the AI sprints (at a horrible angle) towards the puck carrier which exposes the “cross-crease” pass everyone likes to complain about.

    I’m sure there’s other factors you’re trying to address, but it seems like their “reading” or “understanding” of actual position is flawed. When the AI strong-side dman is “burned” the weak-side AI defensemen also doesn’t help by taking a direct angle at the carrier rather than an angle at the far post or somewhere that leads the carrier to create the illusion of anticipation.

    If I were a competitive 1v1 player, I’d rather my weakside D stay on his course in the middle and let me at least decide fro myself what to do. Seems somewhat static but it’d mitigate these issues and would create that always talked about “skill gap” by making players read and adapt to situations quickly.

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