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  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    The scoreboard is one of the only things I like. Put it to the smallest setting and it's way better than before.
  • Oslik1000
    465 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    The scoreboard is one of the only things I like. Put it to the smallest setting and it's way better than before.

    and that's exactly bingo! you like down and me up. you like cartoonish and I prefer more plain colors. But why is EA dealing with something like that at all to cancel something ??? It would be enough to add one item to the menu with the selection: up / down real presentation / cartoon presentation. thats all. The whole nhl 20 is like that, something was added, something was taken. Why cut something that works makes no sense only if you want to release a new game in a year with everything you take back there with the words "NEW" otherwise it makes no sense and no other game in the world is as variable as the EAnhl series. It's sad but the worst thing is that EA wants it that way. And no one else = players don't want it that way.
    [Socair - edited for clarity]
    Post edited by Socair on
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst

    The scoreboard is one of the only things I like. Put it to the smallest setting and it's way better than before.

    smallest settings?
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

  • just2sweeeeeeet
    120 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    Lol as true a statement as that is I wouldn’t be around these forums if that were the case.
  • smyth9779 wrote: »
    I just wanna know why you guys made a game where the puck sometimes gets intercepted and sometimes doesn’t when there’s a defensive player directly in the passing lane.

    I second that question...because I've said it before. And I'll say it again. Cross crease passes almost always get through to the other side. And almost.always go in of they get through.

    I stand right in the slot with my D-man and he just watches the puck go by 98%of the time. Doesnt matter what kinda team I'm playing.
    I played a team last night with all 86 and 87 players, I couldnt stop him. He ran all over me like i was the lesser team. My team is 95 overall. Nobody under 91. My connection is good, yet I couldnt do ANYTHING ...then I played a team with all 97 to 99 players., evenly played game all the way. Then I played another game with a team in the low to mid 90,s. Won with no problem. ..I dont care what anyone says. The game is rigged.
    The first team I played with 86 and 87 players, his 1st line was on the ice for the first 8 minutes of the period. I kept changing my lines for fresh players and he still skated faster than all my players. Never slowed down at all. 1 of his players played 14 minutes in the 1st period! 14!!!!! RIGGED!!!!!!
  • Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.
  • just2sweeeeeeet
    120 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    For me the only thing that has me playing these new games is online play. I’m not an offline player and graphics do not mean anywhere close to what gameplay means (to me). If any game from NHL 08-12 was back online and had enough players for EASHL, I’d be on that quicker than the AI picks up loose pucks on dump in attempts.
    Post edited by just2sweeeeeeet on
  • Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    For me the only thing that has me playing these new games is online play. I’m not an offline player. If any game from NHL 08-12 was back online and had enough players for EASHL, I’d be on that quicker than the AI picks up loose pucks on dump in attempts.

    For me, the creation suite is too good to go back to old-gen, and I also think RPM skating blows the previous two engines out of the water when it comes to a good balance of realism and responsiveness. The added sliders in the new games also makes the offline more enjoyable imo, but yeah, everyone has their own experience with offline gaming. That’s the fun of it. Just wish my teammate AI knew how to breakout, support the puck, screen the goalie, tag-up, go to wide-open ice on the backdoor, etc and that’d really make my offline experience nothing short of amazing.
  • Sega82mega
    3253 posts Member
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    Isn't just to rip off what they did in that gameplay department and put it in to this? Or is it top secret how other develop games and strictly forbiden to share?

    Or has it to do with how you build up the game from scratch, what works for 2k dosent fit into the system EA program games? Becuse of the technology they use.
  • smyth9779 wrote: »
    smyth9779 wrote: »
    I just wanna know why you guys made a game where the puck sometimes gets intercepted and sometimes doesn’t when there’s a defensive player directly in the passing lane.

    I second that question...because I've said it before. And I'll say it again. Cross crease passes almost always get through to the other side. And almost.always go in of they get through.

    I stand right in the slot with my D-man and he just watches the puck go by 98%of the time. Doesnt matter what kinda team I'm playing.
    I played a team last night with all 86 and 87 players, I couldnt stop him. He ran all over me like i was the lesser team. My team is 95 overall. Nobody under 91. My connection is good, yet I couldnt do ANYTHING ...then I played a team with all 97 to 99 players., evenly played game all the way. Then I played another game with a team in the low to mid 90,s. Won with no problem. ..I dont care what anyone says. The game is rigged.
    The first team I played with 86 and 87 players, his 1st line was on the ice for the first 8 minutes of the period. I kept changing my lines for fresh players and he still skated faster than all my players. Never slowed down at all. 1 of his players played 14 minutes in the 1st period! 14!!!!! RIGGED!!!!!!

    Clearly I was angry because I quoted myself in this post. Hahahahahahaha
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    Isn't just to rip off what they did in that gameplay department and put it in to this? Or is it top secret how other develop games and strictly forbiden to share?

    Or has it to do with how you build up the game from scratch, what works for 2k dosent fit into the system EA program games? Becuse of the technology they use.

    Don’t know enough about game design to answer this question, but I do know this game lacks certain immersive qualities that those games had which are 10 and 16 years old respectively. Not to say this game can’t be immersive, I think I’ve made that clear on these forums enough, but the inconsistency in the immersion seems to be more felt in EA’s offering. I think this is due to how solid their mechanical foundation is. It actually makes their AI blunders stand-out more than they would with a less mechanically-sound game.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    I agree with the first part of this, but not so much with the second part.

    To be sure, when I first played EA's NHL Hockey ('92) I was 20 years old. Hockey before that was mostly relegated to mostly arcadey type games where it looked more like table-top hockey or a more stylized version of PONG than the actual real life sport, like NES Hockey and Blades of Steel. It "looked" somewhat like hockey, but it didn't have that hockey feel of when I would lace up the skates and play for real. They were shallow and very basic. Something you could play for a few hours with buddies, but never really play for the long run.

    NHL Hockey was my first experience with a game that not only looked like hockey, but felt like it. And at the time, I can remember getting excited at the prospect of the game getting better and better as the years went on. But instead of getting better, although the GRAPHICS certainly did, it seemed that the gameplay was pretty much staying were it was. Even back in 91, the name of the game was to find the most exploitable goal and abuse it against the AI. There wasn't really a vs. game mode except a very bare bones two player option, much less ONLINE versus, but even then, the object of the game was to try to get as many money shots as possible against an opponent.

    Fast forward to today, almost 30 years later, it's still the same. That's not because the users failed to adapt or evolve. The game failed to evolve over time, and the users simply followed what the game wanted them to do.
    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    For me, my two games that changed the outlook on what a hockey simulation could be was NHL 2K2 and 2K8. I remember my brother swearing by the NHL 2K series when it first came out on the Saturn, but it wasn't really until it came to the Dreamcast in the form of NHL 2K2 that I really fell in love with the series. I think NHL 2K10 did a lot of things right, but also a lot of (EA) things that were wrong.

    2K8 holds a very special place in my heart because of the STILL phenomenal goaltending engine. I've played it again a few times lately, and yes, even though the AI is obviously just as obtuse as it is in EA's series, the goaltending more than makes up for any lacking and I find myself playing 2-3 games in a row and enjoy the bejeebus out of them. It never feels like the game pulled something out of its rear end to score or win games. I feel like I can trust my Ai teammates and my goalie to help me out. And when I get scored on or lose, it's MY fault.
    Post edited by VeNOM2099 on
  • weezyfeesy
    280 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    I get what you’re saying @VeNOM2099 , I wrote that comment kinda tongue in cheek so I’ll try to elaborate.

    For me the first NHL game I really got into was 06 and I could spend hours and hours just playing dynasty mode. I’ve installed 06 and 07 a couple of times on my PC to try it out and there’s no way I can play that game against the AI. It’s just too repetitive and boring. It’s the same thing with NHL 20’s offline modes. It’s just no longer the experience I’m looking for in a sports game (I get that it still can be for some players though) and I don’t think there’s anything EA can do to make grinding against the AI feel fresh for me again. The experience I’m looking for now is mostly the competitive side.

    The sad part is that EA hasn’t executed either of those sides all that well. EA has been way too slow to jump into the competitive gaming train and the game still feels like it’s built to be played 1 on 1 against the AI. That would be fine if EA would at least make the offline parts of the game fleshed out and worth playing even if I wouldn’t play several full seasons like I used to. At the moment the game has several half baked gamemodes and no clear identity. I think EA really needs to make a decision what they want this game to be going forward. Do they want NHL to be a great multiplayer competitive experience 6v6 and/or 1v1 or do they want it to be a great, classic and immersive offline experience. They clearly don’t have the budget and manpower to do both atm. Even if the next NHL game would have well working and balanced online gameplay, EASHL would magically get back to it’s hayday with matchmaking that actually works and with well populated drop in and club, it still wouldn’t feel fresh but rather that we should’ve had that six years ago.

    I just don’t think the older games were anything super special or amazing but rather just standard well working EA sports games. Then EA really dropped the ball switching to this current consol gen like we all remember and just hasn’t been able to recover from that. I think it’s that simple.

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    Oslik1000 wrote: »
    the worst decision in recent years has been a design change. scoreboard change. change font. the change is so drastic that it will overcome even the obvious effort to satisfy the players and make hockey at least a little better. when I play nhl 20 it is not bad but at the same time I often remember older years who everything was already good in the game and disappeared without explanation. and that's not good. It's the same as rambo 5 .... sly is already an old man and even though he definitely has a top condition, so he mainly lacks the magic of an unexpected experience.

    That’s exactly how I feel about this game. Sega Genesis/Super NES days I couldn’t wait to get my hands on a controller and play. XB360/PS3 my friends and I were so addicted to EASHL that we would play that instead of going out on many weekends.

    Ever since around NHL 13 this game has just been pretty good. And that’s kinda sad really.

    Tbh that just sounds like you’re getting old buddy:D

    There’s no way I can enjoy these games or gaming in general the same way I did as a kid. I’m not even looking for the same things in a game anymore and NHL surely isn’t getting any fresher after 15 years of playing. That’s not necessarily the game’s fault either.

    I agree with the first part of this, but not so much with the second part.

    To be sure, when I first played EA's NHL Hockey ('92) I was 20 years old. Hockey before that was mostly relegated to mostly arcadey type games where it looked more like table-top hockey or a more stylized version of PONG than the actual real life sport, like NES Hockey and Blades of Steel. It "looked" somewhat like hockey, but it didn't have that hockey feel of when I would lace up the skates and play for real. They were shallow and very basic. Something you could play for a few hours with buddies, but never really play for the long run.

    NHL Hockey was my first experience with a game that not only looked like hockey, but felt like it. And at the time, I can remember getting excited at the prospect of the game getting better and better as the years went on. But instead of getting better, although the GRAPHICS certainly did, it seemed that the gameplay was pretty much staying were it was. Even back in 91, the name of the game was to find the most exploitable goal and abuse it against the AI. There wasn't really a vs. game mode except a very bare bones two player option, much less ONLINE versus, but even then, the object of the game was to try to get as many money shots as possible against an opponent.

    Fast forward to today, almost 30 years later, it's still the same. That's not because the users failed to adapt or evolve. The game failed to evolve over time, and the users simply followed what the game wanted them to do.
    There’s two hockey games that have stood the test of time for me. NHL Hitz Pro and NHL 2k10. Diamonds in the rough that really captured hockey if you let them. They show their age in graphics and rosters which is the main reason I’ve stopped playing (and because of EA NHL’s very good creation suite) but what they did in the gameplay department was very good. Still looking for many of things those companies did well to be included in this game today.

    For me, my two games that changed the outlook on what a hockey simulation could be was NHL 2K2 and 2K8. I remember my brother swearing by the NHL 2K series when it first came out on the Saturn, but it wasn't really until it came to the Dreamcast in the form of NHL 2K2 that I really fell in love with the series. I think NHL 2K10 did a lot of things right, but also a lot of (EA) things that were wrong.

    2K8 holds a very special place in my heart because of the STILL phenomenal goaltending engine. I've played it again a few times lately, and yes, even though the AI is obviously just as obtuse as it is in EA's series, the goaltending more than makes up for any lacking and I find myself playing 2-3 games in a row and enjoy the bejeebus out of them. It never feels like the game pulled something out of its rear end to score or win games. I feel like I can trust my Ai teammates and my goalie to help me out. And when I get scored on or lose, it's MY fault.

    2k8 was a close 3rd for sure! For whatever reason, I just never fell in-love with a lot of that game despite the goalies being absolutely incredible to watch. As a goalie, that’s easily the best overall representation of the position any video game has delivered.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    I get what you’re saying @VeNOM2099 , I wrote that comment kinda tongue in cheek so I’ll try to elaborate.

    For me the first NHL game I really got into was 06 and I could spend hours and hours just playing dynasty mode. I’ve installed 06 and 07 a couple of times on my PC to try it out and there’s no way I can play that game against the AI. It’s just too repetitive and boring. It’s the same thing with NHL 20’s offline modes. It’s just no longer the experience I’m looking for in a sports game (I get that it still can be for some players though) and I don’t think there’s anything EA can do to make grinding against the AI feel fresh for me again. The experience I’m looking for now is mostly the competitive side.

    The sad part is that EA hasn’t executed either of those sides all that well. EA has been way too slow to jump into the competitive gaming train and the game still feels like it’s built to be played 1 on 1 against the AI. That would be fine if EA would at least make the offline parts of the game fleshed out and worth playing even if I wouldn’t play several full seasons like I used to. At the moment the game has several half baked gamemodes and no clear identity. I think EA really needs to make a decision what they want this game to be going forward. Do they want NHL to be a great multiplayer competitive experience 6v6 and/or 1v1 or do they want it to be a great, classic and immersive offline experience. They clearly don’t have the budget and manpower to do both atm. Even if the next NHL game would have well working and balanced online gameplay, EASHL would magically get back to it’s hayday with matchmaking that actually works and with well populated drop in and club, it still wouldn’t feel fresh but rather that we should’ve had that six years ago.

    I just don’t think the older games were anything super special or amazing but rather just standard well working EA sports games. Then EA really dropped the ball switching to this current consol gen like we all remember and just hasn’t been able to recover from that. I think it’s that simple.

    The thing is, there are other games, Sports games, that have that immersion that's missing in the NHL series. That's why I play a lot of F1 2019 and NBA 2K20 offline. I'm currently in the middle of my first F1 Career season, and I began my 2nd Season of NBA 2K20. In fact I played all 82 games of my season with the Spurs, plus 15 more games in the playoffs (got eliminated in the Semis). And for the most part, playing against ONE team was nothing like playing against another. Different player skills are really noticeable; playing against the Lakers with Anthony Davis, King James and Rondo is nothing like playing the Golden State Warriors and their duo of Stephen Curry and Draymon Green. Teams have different play styles, different play sets they perform that you have to adjust too each game. Some teams try to keep up a fast tempo, some like to slow it down. Some like to rain down buckets from the perimeter. Others are always trying to penetrate and score from the inside. It's just so much fun and organic and... It's just awesome.

    Even the presentation, which gets old as you get some repetition as the season goes on, it's so good that you can forgive hearing David Aldridge reporting on his "Cousin" Lamarcus Aldridge for the hundred time! The immersion you feel as you play that game is off the charts. Yeah, the online isn't that great... Though I'd say that if you can adjust to it and play mostly certain types of game modes (like The REC in the Neighborhood), it can be pleasant.

    F1 is another type of beast. All the different racetracks with their own unique little quirks and twists that have you trying to send your car flying as fast as possible through their entire length. All the different adjustments you have to make to not only your car, but how you drive that car on the tracks. Sometimes you think that setting your car more conservatively will work on a track, but it doesn't. Sometimes making it too aggressive also fails. So you're forced to find the happy medium on that particular venue to try and shave off in just hundreds of a second to move into a top 10 spot in Qualifying or a Race. Even the AI have different behaviors in different cars. And sometimes they can feel a little OP on some tracks, but it just makes fighting for crucial points in the championship that much more rewarding, even if it's just to get a higher standing with another team whom you might want to jump over to in a following season to get closer to a Driver's Cup. Yet it's not just about WINS. As long as you can do well, even in one of the bottom tier teams, if you drive well enough and invest some r&d into the team's car, with a little luck you might turn a losing team barely scraping finishes let alone points in the standings, to a team in the top 8 contenders by the end of the next season.

    It's just SO exciting!!

    I just wish EA's NHL had even just half of that amount of immersion in their game. Not to have to feel that game 1 feels pretty much the same as game 1000. That as long as you do the same thing over and over to score, you'll do alright. That if you just stay in the middle of your net as a goalie, camping the goal line, with a 6'6" build like everyone else and not moving too much, you can save most shots that come towards you. It's not very good hockey. It's not very good video gaming. And it's not very fun. At all...

    *sigh*
  • weezyfeesy
    280 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »
    I get what you’re saying @VeNOM2099 , I wrote that comment kinda tongue in cheek so I’ll try to elaborate.

    For me the first NHL game I really got into was 06 and I could spend hours and hours just playing dynasty mode. I’ve installed 06 and 07 a couple of times on my PC to try it out and there’s no way I can play that game against the AI. It’s just too repetitive and boring. It’s the same thing with NHL 20’s offline modes. It’s just no longer the experience I’m looking for in a sports game (I get that it still can be for some players though) and I don’t think there’s anything EA can do to make grinding against the AI feel fresh for me again. The experience I’m looking for now is mostly the competitive side.

    The sad part is that EA hasn’t executed either of those sides all that well. EA has been way too slow to jump into the competitive gaming train and the game still feels like it’s built to be played 1 on 1 against the AI. That would be fine if EA would at least make the offline parts of the game fleshed out and worth playing even if I wouldn’t play several full seasons like I used to. At the moment the game has several half baked gamemodes and no clear identity. I think EA really needs to make a decision what they want this game to be going forward. Do they want NHL to be a great multiplayer competitive experience 6v6 and/or 1v1 or do they want it to be a great, classic and immersive offline experience. They clearly don’t have the budget and manpower to do both atm. Even if the next NHL game would have well working and balanced online gameplay, EASHL would magically get back to it’s hayday with matchmaking that actually works and with well populated drop in and club, it still wouldn’t feel fresh but rather that we should’ve had that six years ago.

    I just don’t think the older games were anything super special or amazing but rather just standard well working EA sports games. Then EA really dropped the ball switching to this current consol gen like we all remember and just hasn’t been able to recover from that. I think it’s that simple.

    The thing is, there are other games, Sports games, that have that immersion that's missing in the NHL series. That's why I play a lot of F1 2019 and NBA 2K20 offline. I'm currently in the middle of my first F1 Career season, and I began my 2nd Season of NBA 2K20. In fact I played all 82 games of my season with the Spurs, plus 15 more games in the playoffs (got eliminated in the Semis). And for the most part, playing against ONE team was nothing like playing against another. Different player skills are really noticeable; playing against the Lakers with Anthony Davis, King James and Rondo is nothing like playing the Golden State Warriors and their duo of Stephen Curry and Draymon Green. Teams have different play styles, different play sets they perform that you have to adjust too each game. Some teams try to keep up a fast tempo, some like to slow it down. Some like to rain down buckets from the perimeter. Others are always trying to penetrate and score from the inside. It's just so much fun and organic and... It's just awesome.

    Even the presentation, which gets old as you get some repetition as the season goes on, it's so good that you can forgive hearing David Aldridge reporting on his "Cousin" Lamarcus Aldridge for the hundred time! The immersion you feel as you play that game is off the charts. Yeah, the online isn't that great... Though I'd say that if you can adjust to it and play mostly certain types of game modes (like The REC in the Neighborhood), it can be pleasant.

    F1 is another type of beast. All the different racetracks with their own unique little quirks and twists that have you trying to send your car flying as fast as possible through their entire length. All the different adjustments you have to make to not only your car, but how you drive that car on the tracks. Sometimes you think that setting your car more conservatively will work on a track, but it doesn't. Sometimes making it too aggressive also fails. So you're forced to find the happy medium on that particular venue to try and shave off in just hundreds of a second to move into a top 10 spot in Qualifying or a Race. Even the AI have different behaviors in different cars. And sometimes they can feel a little OP on some tracks, but it just makes fighting for crucial points in the championship that much more rewarding, even if it's just to get a higher standing with another team whom you might want to jump over to in a following season to get closer to a Driver's Cup. Yet it's not just about WINS. As long as you can do well, even in one of the bottom tier teams, if you drive well enough and invest some r&d into the team's car, with a little luck you might turn a losing team barely scraping finishes let alone points in the standings, to a team in the top 8 contenders by the end of the next season.

    It's just SO exciting!!

    I just wish EA's NHL had even just half of that amount of immersion in their game. Not to have to feel that game 1 feels pretty much the same as game 1000. That as long as you do the same thing over and over to score, you'll do alright. That if you just stay in the middle of your net as a goalie, camping the goal line, with a 6'6" build like everyone else and not moving too much, you can save most shots that come towards you. It's not very good hockey. It's not very good video gaming. And it's not very fun. At all...

    *sigh*

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion
    Post edited by weezyfeesy on

  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

  • bryta47
    373 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Juppo1996 wrote: »

    The Codies’ F1 series is actually a really good example. I honestly didn’t even think of it when I was thinking about what other sports games are doing. I remember when the F1 series was in that really familiar limbo a few years ago. The game was too arcady to get the hardcore sim crowd interested, it didn’t have the online aspects to be played competitively and career mode wasn’t fleshed out enough to be engaging for a longer period. Then I picture the codies crew having a super super cereal business meating with suits and ties and all, deciding to put their effort on the career mode and it worked. The F1 series can’t compete in the online field with iRacing, they can’t compete with rFactor 2, AC or Project Cars in the hardcore sim aspects so they worked with what they have, the F1 license.

    I think the NHL series should profile themselves the same way and focus on the things that only they can do. NHL can’t compete with the other major sports titles on presentation or career mode/franchise modes but the thing they have that others don’t is the EASHL format and a weirdly dedicated and patient competitive player base. You can’t really do anything like EASHL with madden, fifa or whatever the baseball game is called and at least my experiences with NBA2K online have been absolutely terrible (that could be an EU servers thing though idk). But even with just comparing basketball vs hockey I think hockey is better suited for a mode like EASHL because of bigger emphasis on teamplay.

    That obviously doesn’t mean that the NHL series shouldn’t work on presentation or offline at all but I really think this series should work on it’s strenghts for now and get those aspect to a level that can stand up to scrutiny.

    That means tuning and balancing the game top level pvp in mind to create a proper learning curve, working out the worst physics and skating exploits, fixing the goalie mechanics and building an in-game competitive ladder/division system for clubs and individual players in drop in. Also an AI that can keep up with top players without painfully obvious cheats would be really neat in my not so humble opinion

    Funny thing is, I was an active member of the Codemaster's F1 Forums back in the day. After the adequate 2010-2012 versions, which were, as you said, a bit arcadey, Codies laid the biggest pile on their fans with F1 2013 and 2014 which were just copy-pastes of 2012 with THINGS OMITTED. Obviously people in the community were mad. It got so bad that mods had to ban a lot of people, many of them very prominent members of the F1 community, because discussions would often degenerate into tirades between the users/customers and the people at Codemasters.

    Then something happened. After they released F1 2015, which was BETTER than its predecessor, but still lacking in features, they put a community manager in charge of collecting people's grievances with the game. She would also schedule meetings with the devs so that they could talk to some of the communities top names (namely the people that went to great lengths to create racing leagues based off their game) and she would post monthly lists of things the devs were working on, either to patch the current game and/or what was coming down the pipeline for the NEXT game.

    That all resulted in the AMAZING game that was F1 2016, which gave way to now 4 years in a row of F1 fans getting what they wanted: a game that is faithful to the sport it represents, no matter what skill level you are or preferences you had between casual (arcade) or hardcore (simulation). Is it a 100% simulation of Formula One driving? No. It can never be that. But does it 100% give you the feeling you're an actual F1 Driver, racing a tub of carbon fiber around track at over 300 Km/h against 19 other F1 Drivers? Absolutely. Even actual F1 Drivers praise the game for it's faithfulness to the sport. When you have someone like Former F1 Champion Kimi Raikkonen say that the game is pretty faithful to what an actual F1 car drives like, even going as far as saying that current car's grip levels is more like playing with the Traction control on medium instead of completely off (like E-sport players prefer)... It just validates what lengths Codemasters went to to take their game and elevate it to its current status.

    I wish we could have something like that for NHL as well.

    For that to happen EA need to stop being so defensive about the game and accept critisism as more than personal attacks on devs.

    Because right now they act very immature and stubborn.

    This should be the mantra written on whiteboards all over their offices for motivation and reality check:

    EA NHL is a convoluted and boring mess - a poor representation of the sport of hockey. We accept this. So, now, how do we fix it?

    The community can help. We are not the enemy.
    Post edited by bryta47 on
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