Skating Speed EASHL + Player Builds
I'm just curious to get others feedback on a couple of issues I have with EASHL.
The different player builds seems to be unbalanced and make the game unfair.
I often play as a Dangler with speed settings of 90 speed, 93 acceleration, and 87 agility.
I often end up being the slowest player on the ice and have no ability to knock Grinders/Power Forwards etc off the puck. Yet these other classes can skate and deke like a dangler at times in addition to being able to deliver crushing hits. It becomes almost invincible.
When you get caught in one of these games it becomes unplayable because you literally can do nothing to play defense. The second you use the poke check button its a penalty shot and even if the poke is successful, as a Dangler the poke check is not effective enough to steal the puck 90% of the time.
What is the point of having attributes if they are not consistent? Every build should have basic minimum ability. Every class should be able to play physical against any other class to some extent. Otherwise a dangler up against a grinder cannot play defense against them and that makes no sense. Any player regardless of type should be able to make a defensive play and be successful if they are in good position. That is how real hockey works regardless of a players tendencies. Some hit more, some use their stick more but everyone can defend everyone.
The advantage for speed is minimal if there is any advantage for speed at all. I have no additional breakaway speed versus any class yet my speed, acceleration and agility are significantly higher. The game favors back checking in the first place and especially for AI to cover for any mistakes.
Contrast to the advantage of body checking, stick check, and balance which is significantly increased and noticeable between builds. Puck control seems to do nothing compared to balance.
What is the point of having attributes if only certain ones actually impact the player type significantly. Others are just kind of there but you are left at a significant disadvantage.
Can they not streamline the attributes? Maybe the game is trying to do way more than it needs to in terms of player ability with the attribute system. Do you need a puck control attribute and a balance attribute or are they close enough that they could be one?
The different player builds seems to be unbalanced and make the game unfair.
I often play as a Dangler with speed settings of 90 speed, 93 acceleration, and 87 agility.
I often end up being the slowest player on the ice and have no ability to knock Grinders/Power Forwards etc off the puck. Yet these other classes can skate and deke like a dangler at times in addition to being able to deliver crushing hits. It becomes almost invincible.
When you get caught in one of these games it becomes unplayable because you literally can do nothing to play defense. The second you use the poke check button its a penalty shot and even if the poke is successful, as a Dangler the poke check is not effective enough to steal the puck 90% of the time.
What is the point of having attributes if they are not consistent? Every build should have basic minimum ability. Every class should be able to play physical against any other class to some extent. Otherwise a dangler up against a grinder cannot play defense against them and that makes no sense. Any player regardless of type should be able to make a defensive play and be successful if they are in good position. That is how real hockey works regardless of a players tendencies. Some hit more, some use their stick more but everyone can defend everyone.
The advantage for speed is minimal if there is any advantage for speed at all. I have no additional breakaway speed versus any class yet my speed, acceleration and agility are significantly higher. The game favors back checking in the first place and especially for AI to cover for any mistakes.
Contrast to the advantage of body checking, stick check, and balance which is significantly increased and noticeable between builds. Puck control seems to do nothing compared to balance.
What is the point of having attributes if only certain ones actually impact the player type significantly. Others are just kind of there but you are left at a significant disadvantage.
Can they not streamline the attributes? Maybe the game is trying to do way more than it needs to in terms of player ability with the attribute system. Do you need a puck control attribute and a balance attribute or are they close enough that they could be one?
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Hunters in Smite cant play tanky without being almost useless offensively. Guardians can’t play super damage-based without really sacrificing their protections/health. Solos can play offensively, but again lose defensive protections/health. Mages again can build tanky, but their damage output is severely reduced. This game, despite it’s own character balance issues, actually makes users pick and choose a role and they have to build the role appropriately to be the most effective. This is because attributes/stats matter in this game. If there was an “AE” slider in smite, league of legends, dota2 it’d be 10/10, not 5/10.
I think the best move going forward is to simply scrap attributes in EASHL as the game changers clearly will never push for more risk/reward because these players want to do it all. Drop the charade and just make every even 90’s across the board. Not what I would do if I had any say, but seeing as this generation hasn’t promised us true class separation as advertised, I think it’s safe to say the experiment was a failure, move on to the next idea.
I’ve never seen anything close to this by the way and I use every build from dangler to enforcer. The difference in speed, agility, shooting ability, hitting, etc. is easily recognizable and those players that you’re seeing dangle “better with grinders” might be better at dangling. I really don’t get why the skill of the user doesn’t seem to have any bearing here for you.
Not only that but I can knock a big guy off the puck with a 5’7 168 dangler at the right speed and angle. Now if you think you should be able to knock a 6’4 215 pound PWF off the puck at slow speeds then we definitely will not see eye to eye on this issue. But as far as speeds go, it’s not remotely close and if a grinder is catching you maybe you aren’t using the hustle button. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. 5’7 160 pound danglers and snipers are almost all you see in EASHL 3s for a reason.
> If this was actually true, why not just use the “OP builds” instead of complaining? I mean if a dangler is useless, why are you using it!?!
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> I’ve never seen anything close to this by the way and I use every build from dangler to enforcer. The difference in speed, agility, shooting ability, hitting, etc. is easily recognizable and those players that you’re seeing dangle “better with grinders” might be better at dangling. I really don’t get why the skill of the user doesn’t seem to have any bearing here for you.
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> Not only that but I can knock a big guy off the puck with a 5’7 168 dangler at the right speed and angle. Now if you think you should be able to knock a 6’4 215 pound PWF off the puck at slow speeds then we definitely will not see eye to eye on this issue. But as far as speeds go, it’s not remotely close and if a grinder is catching you maybe you aren’t using the hustle button. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. 5’7 160 pound danglers and snipers are almost all you see in EASHL 3s for a reason.
I've stopped using it because of this problem.
The skill of the user is my problem. I don't need to start a debate or defend my ability to play the game or my knowledge of hockey. I have a ton of high level experience in hockey as a player and coach and I've bene playing the game for 20 years. Dangling and puck control is my best asset.
When I say I play against other player builds who can dangle better than a dangler I'm not talking about the user I'm literally talking about the build. I have a 93 deking rating and my player consistently cannot complete a deke and loses the puck on his own then I see a grinder click the same set of buttons and have no issues with it at all.
I also use the hustle button like clock work. It still doesn't stop other players that pull away from me consistently.
My experience I simply bounce off certain builds, grinder and power forward specifically. I'm in position with momentum and still nothing.
I do have an issue with saying you should not be able hit a bigger class at slow speeds. If an offensive player regardless of the build slows to snails space and is literally tight turning left in right in front of you and I perform 5-6 body checks and they have literally no effect, there is no point in even playing.
I play a more conservative style of Defense because of my lack of physicality in my build. I focus on angles and keeping players to the outside.
It's not hockey when it just becomes about "conforming" to the OP biases in the builds.
There are already enough "gimme" goals to defend, we have to be able to at least play the game and control those changes. This definitely inhibits that.
You and me have wildly different definitions of “easily recognizable” because there’s just no way anything is that easy to recognize on a default tuner set that has attribute effects at 5/10. That fact alone prevents anything too noticeable from happening.
I’m not saying there isn’t a difference, but I’ll never agree that this game is like a MOBA when it comes to classes really mattering and having to play to your class to be successful.
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> You and me have wildly different definitions of “easily recognizable” because there’s just no way anything is that easy to recognize on a default tuner set that has attribute effects at 5/10. That fact alone prevents anything too noticeable from happening.
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> I’m not saying there isn’t a difference, but I’ll never agree that this game is like a MOBA when it comes to classes really mattering and having to play to your class to be successful.
I think the easiest thing to recognize from a class stand point is the vulnerability to be successfully hit + lose the puck and the ability to successfully complete a hit is incredibly different between classes. Meanwhile the other attributes are barely noticeable whatsoever or at best vary in effectiveness from game to game.
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> I think the easiest thing to recognize from a class stand point is the vulnerability to be successfully hit + lose the puck and the ability to successfully complete a hit is incredibly different between classes. Meanwhile the other attributes are barely noticeable whatsoever or at best vary in effectiveness from game to game.
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Also just to add that classes with high hitting and slower skating should have no impact in 3 on 3 hockey. The game is too slow to generate proper spacing like in actual hockey. You cannot risk hits in 3 on 3 hockey game, 3 on 3 EASHL is still somehow a crowded game play style with a ton of hitting.
However the random puck loss that they put in around NHL 15 on basic toe drags - even when they are simply performed in open ice - is frustrating beyond belief, so I’m with you here if that’s what you’re referring to.
> I’ve used every build and there’s no way in heck even a 6’0 200 pound build (the smallest possible grinder build) is catching a 5’7 160 pound anything. The speed difference isn’t close.
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> However the random puck loss that they put in around NHL 15 on basic toe drags - even when they are simply performed in open ice - is frustrating beyond belief, so I’m with you here if that’s what you’re referring to.
I'm gonna have to take video of the speed issues I'm having in the game because I'm seeing it all the time on a game to game basis.
I mean, I’d agree with him when he says that player separation doesn’t matter enough. If it did, we’d see more players playing to their class and we’d see more time and space for some players and we’d see tighter gaps in others. We’d see defensemen who are reluctant to rush the puck to to abilities rather than stick skills, we’d see other defenseman carry the puck more due to their class. We’d see some forwards look for easier plays, or pass first, or shoot first a lot of the time.
I just don’t find the deeper meta/strategy to exist within this game. That’s why it bores me online. What teams really do anything different than another when you get to the ESHL level? I’d say playstyles are basically universal and the difference comes down to execution/chemistry more than teams legitimately doing different things and pushing the envelope.
Maybe I don’t 100% agree with everything he says, but the high-level point of this post I’d agree with. Not enough granular player separation that really forces you to play to your class to be successful.
Bingo.... Connection can make a world of difference. It's also the reason I feel most complain about tilt. Sadly ISP routing is what controls that aspect.
This. 100% this.
It doesn’t matter. I remember playing games with dudes from Sweden and still not having as much random puck loss as I experience in current gen NHLs. That’s no excuse. It’s the way they game is designed.
And I should mention it isn’t just on toe drags. It happens playing on 20 ms ping and it happens to the best of them. I have so many videos of doing the simple “LB” deke and the puck gets left behind and the commentator says something like “that puck had an anchor” or some ish like that. I’ve seen it happen to 1200 CR players. Nearly all of the loose puck dekes are coin flips as to whether they’ll work or leave you in an embarrassing situation.
This is just Ea's scapegoat answer for crappy gameplay mechanics...gotta love when that puck has forward momentum and the goalie barely gets a piece and it sticks to the goal line like it stuck to velcro. Or love the fact that your team seems to get all of the bounces when playing against a group of players with a higher credit rating...whilst just the opposite happens when you play squads with a lower rating, and you cant seem to get a bounce to save your life...
LB quick dekes need to be so much better, especially if acceleration is going to be jacked up, because it’s really the only way to beat competent players 1v1. No reason a simple deke like that can’t have near 100% success rate if not bumped/intercepted by a defenseman. These are dekes that average HS players around my area can do flawlessly.