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Transitional skating is broken for NHL 21

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TheMajjam
794 posts Member
edited September 3
I thought it was just me getting burned, but many are speaking out about this. Found this post on reddit about it.

https://old.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/ildvxa/ea_have_kind_of_backed_themselves_into_a_corner/

[Right now, if you're facing fast forwards as a defender in the technical test, it is pretty much impossible to play tight gap control. They just accelerate right past you (or even through you) unless you time your poke/lift/shove perfectly. This is because the back skating and/or pivoting speed as a defender is slow as molasses right now.

Why is this the case?

Because they had to nerf the back skating speed so that using L2/LT in the offensive/neutral zone wasn't overpowered anymore. The problem is that the animation/coding for back skating/pivoting appears to be shared all over the ice, so now if you're playing defense you're basically screwed on any 3-on-2 rush if the forwards are fast and capable. They can accelerate right past you and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Not even talking about just the puck carrier either, the other forwards can zoom past you to the net, and unlike the puck carrier there's literally nothing you can do.

Not sure what the best compromise is, but the way it's setup right now is a recipe for disaster. It's also why the CPU defenders are getting burned so badly in the test right now.]

He is absolutely right. Even if I try to be in position, I'm still getting burned in a way I'm not getting in NHL 20. Not only that, but congratulations on feeding the SNP and DNG classes, because in 3's, that's ALL I see. Even for D-men. So it seems we're back to everyone choosing speed builds, and even my PMD can't keep up.

Replies

  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    I thought it was just me getting burned, but many are speaking out about this. Found this post on reddit about it.

    https://old.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/ildvxa/ea_have_kind_of_backed_themselves_into_a_corner/

    [Right now, if you're facing fast forwards as a defender in the technical test, it is pretty much impossible to play tight gap control. They just accelerate right past you (or even through you) unless you time your poke/lift/shove perfectly. This is because the back skating and/or pivoting speed as a defender is slow as molasses right now.

    Why is this the case?

    Because they had to nerf the back skating speed so that using L2/LT in the offensive/neutral zone wasn't overpowered anymore. The problem is that the animation/coding for back skating/pivoting appears to be shared all over the ice, so now if you're playing defense you're basically screwed on any 3-on-2 rush if the forwards are fast and capable. They can accelerate right past you and there's nothing you can do to stop it. Not even talking about just the puck carrier either, the other forwards can zoom past you to the net, and unlike the puck carrier there's literally nothing you can do.

    Not sure what the best compromise is, but the way it's setup right now is a recipe for disaster. It's also why the CPU defenders are getting burned so badly in the test right now.]

    He is absolutely right. Even if I try to be in position, I'm still getting burned in a way I'm not getting in NHL 20. Not only that, but congratulations on feeding the SNP and DNG classes, because in 3's, that's ALL I see. Even for D-men. So it seems we're back to everyone choosing speed builds, and even my PMD can't keep up.

    Yeah early feelings are that basically this is same game with a few tweaks that actually make the game worse for defense. Which overall makes the experience worse. One of those things is the wonky skating issues you are talking about.

    Yep the 1000 things that have been complained about ( some for multiple years) none where addressed.
  • I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    Well, I think this is still a legit complaint because EA failed to program the *AI D* to compensate for this change in the game. The AI D is *constantly* giving up odd man rushes. This never happened before.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    *commences to banging my head on a desk*
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.
    No slight on you, but do you play defense? I think you need to live this to understand how bad it is rn. I am playing to compensate but if you are bringing a DD into the mix, maintaining any type of reasonable gap control is VERY difficult. It's not something that should be this hard for people who are aware of it and are used to doing it.


    Again, even the AI D are getting burned so that should tell you something.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    *commences to banging my head on a desk*

    basically. This guy's blind positivity is starting to become grating...
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • The other thing is that all the changes in the beta are cumulative on demoralizing defensemen.

    e.g. Another HUGE issue right now is the cross crease. Even covering the back door using a guy with high defensive awareness, these are currently nearly unstoppable.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    *commences to banging my head on a desk*

    basically. This guy's blind positivity is starting to become grating...

    I'm trying to be composed here because I feel Sega isn't being malicious for the sake of being malicious, but if you read the OP (or the reddit thread) and then start commenting on being flat-footed, you're not understanding the issue or even the game of hockey.

    Also, YES. Cross crease is insane. It's easy to pull off in 20, but in this one it takes no efforts. As D-men we have to LT all the time in our own zone to face the puck, and doing this is making my player feel like he's in sludge and can't move while the forward snipers are zipping by me at warp speed.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I think this has more something to do with flat-footed players, in previous games it has been way more up-down-up-down hockey were there wasen't really any question about gaps between players, they all more or less followed that pattern, and it almost become a feeling that the players was stuck on a wire between each other.

    Now it's more importen then ever to follow the right angles, match the speed from which direction it comes, or else you get overrun.

    Might take a while before everyone get use to it but I really like this side of the game. Brings a bigger deep to the game.

    *commences to banging my head on a desk*

    basically. This guy's blind positivity is starting to become grating...

    Whats even more sad is that I have to excuse myself for being positive about something I like.

    I might have misunderstood the whole question, but nothing with the skating is broken for me, but if it feels like that for other people, okey, fine, maybe it is broken.

    They told us about the change in this year game, by taking advantage of flat-footed players, and if you rush up and down in a more or less straight line and your up against a player that move around left and right, up and down, the one player that only play up and down going to end up flat-footed.

    People asked for a change, this one is a huge gamechanger, all im looking for in my play right now is to find a moment to take advantage of this new feature. And I love when I do, but sometime I end up on the wrong side to.

    L2 is going to be even more importen in 21,but this time in a much better way.

    But again, sorry if I misread the question, you might talk about something else then I do.
  • I've basically played defense exclusively in EASHL for the past 3 years and I agree with Majjam. I'll be tracking the puck carrier and see my opportunity to make a defensive play and the poke misses, the stick lift misses and now he has inside position on me and I can't catch up. Hitting got more difficult in 20 and in 21 it feels like if the guy isn't asleep at the wheel you're going to miss. What else am I supposed to do if stick checking, stick lift and hitting don't work? Should I just be a moving screen? I want to be optimistic and say that I'm probably just lagging and the beta servers suck. But only time will tell. This isn't the first time I've complained about the lack of tools that defense has in this game.
  • IceLion68
    827 posts Member
    edited September 3
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    I'm trying to be composed here because I feel Sega isn't being malicious for the sake of being malicious, but if you read the OP (or the reddit thread) and then start commenting on being flat-footed, you're not understanding the issue or even the game of hockey..
    Agreed on both counts. He is talking like gap control isnt a thing in NHL20?!
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    827 posts Member
    edited September 3
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Whats even more sad is that I have to excuse myself for being positive about something I like.

    You can like something - no issue there. But you are attempting to explain away something that is a real problem in the game by simply saying (if I may paraphrase) "flat footed Dmen are now getting burned - as it should be if they don't maintain proper gap control". If that was the case I would agree with you. But that is not what - or at least that is not ALL that - is going on here.

    No one thinks you're a bad guy or anything. I actually like your optimism and positivity - it's desperately needed here sometimes. But I think sometimes it prevents you from differentiating between the whining (that does indeed go on here) and legitimate complaints.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    827 posts Member
    edited September 3
    I've basically played defense exclusively in EASHL for the past 3 years and I agree with Majjam. I'll be tracking the puck carrier and see my opportunity to make a defensive play and the poke misses, the stick lift misses and now he has inside position on me and I can't catch up. Hitting got more difficult in 20 and in 21 it feels like if the guy isn't asleep at the wheel you're going to miss. What else am I supposed to do if stick checking, stick lift and hitting don't work? Should I just be a moving screen? I want to be optimistic and say that I'm probably just lagging and the beta servers suck. But only time will tell. This isn't the first time I've complained about the lack of tools that defense has in this game.
    Yup. Full time DMan since NHL14 here.

    There was one year - NHL18 I think - where the D got some love with DSS and improved vision control IIRC. But other than that, every year it seems that we get "new creative ways to score", which have to be countered with the same old, mostly broken tools that defensemen have.

    The overall increase in the speed of the gameplay (I'm not imagining this am I?) PLUS what I perceive to be a larger speed differential between forwards and Dmen right now in the beta is proving VERY challenging.

    I am trying to adjust but the AI D is getting burned constantly so even when I get this right, it's still an odd man rush... oh and as an added bonus... I *love* that when this results in a goal, I get a "missed assignment" feedback as "punishment" for being the only defender back. Shame on me for not covering ALL the attackers by myself I guess...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Whats even more sad is that I have to excuse myself for being positive about something I like.

    You can like something - no issue there. But you are attempting to explain away something that is a real problem in the game by simply saying (if I may paraphrase) "flat footed Dmen are now getting burned - as it should be if they don't maintain proper gap control". If that was the case I would agree with you. But that is not what - or at least that is not ALL that - is going on here.

    No one thinks you're a bad guy or anything. I actually like your optimism and positivity - it's desperately needed here sometimes. But I think sometimes it prevents you from differentiating between the whining (that does indeed go on here) and legitimate complaints.

    Fair point. 👍
  • IceLion68
    827 posts Member
    edited September 3
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    Also, YES. Cross crease is insane. It's easy to pull off in 20, but in this one it takes no efforts. As D-men we have to LT all the time in our own zone to face the puck, and doing this is making my player feel like he's in sludge and can't move while the forward snipers are zipping by me at warp speed.

    It's a combination of things.
    1) The AI D seems incredibly bad at covering the back door
    2) The passes seem to squeak through in the tiniest sliver of a passing lane right onto guys tape past the far post and they are able to bury it at even very sharpest of angles.
    3) Despite these razor thin passing lanes, no amount of positioning seems to put me IN that passing lane to stop it.
    4) If I *do* stop it, I still have to contend with the inevitable dreadfulness of either the goalie (annoying) or the opponent (horrible) auto-stealing the puck right off my stick blade.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • GramerProfesur
    538 posts Member
    edited September 3
    100% dealing with the same issues.. back skating is so so slow. Always good at gap control and being in position but even at 5’9 170 PMD with back skating speciality I’m getting burned badly. It’s game breaking at this point
  • RSall14
    579 posts Member
    edited September 3
    Easy no buy this year unless they have tuning or fixes in a "beta".
    Post edited by RSall14 on
  • RSall14 wrote: »
    Locking us in as soon as the pass comes our way is a garbage change

    It's been like this for years
  • RSall14 wrote: »
    Locking us in as soon as the pass comes our way is a garbage change

    It's been like this for years

    Agreed. When I am playing d this is easily the "feature" that most often makes me use words that would give Socair a heart attack here. I *hate* when I'm holding LT and backing up and the game decides I wanted to step forward for a pass or loose puck that I knew was a lost cause.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    I've basically played defense exclusively in EASHL for the past 3 years and I agree with Majjam. I'll be tracking the puck carrier and see my opportunity to make a defensive play and the poke misses, the stick lift misses and now he has inside position on me and I can't catch up. Hitting got more difficult in 20 and in 21 it feels like if the guy isn't asleep at the wheel you're going to miss. What else am I supposed to do if stick checking, stick lift and hitting don't work? Should I just be a moving screen? I want to be optimistic and say that I'm probably just lagging and the beta servers suck. But only time will tell. This isn't the first time I've complained about the lack of tools that defense has in this game.
    Yup. Full time DMan since NHL14 here.

    There was one year - NHL18 I think - where the D got some love with DSS and improved vision control IIRC. But other than that, every year it seems that we get "new creative ways to score", which have to be countered with the same old, mostly broken tools that defensemen have.

    The overall increase in the speed of the gameplay (I'm not imagining this am I?) PLUS what I perceive to be a larger speed differential between forwards and Dmen right now in the beta is proving VERY challenging.

    I am trying to adjust but the AI D is getting burned constantly so even when I get this right, it's still an odd man rush... oh and as an added bonus... I *love* that when this results in a goal, I get a "missed assignment" feedback as "punishment" for being the only defender back. Shame on me for not covering ALL the attackers by myself I guess...¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    You sir have come to the right person to talk about the speed of the defensive builds.
    My first post ever was about how the defensive builds in EASHL are not representative of the current NHL. The 2 defensive first builds are DD and TWD. TWD is limited to 6' 200lbs which is like 84spd and 84acc. DD are limited to 6'2" 210lbs which I think maxes out at 82 for both. The meta from what I've seen is small and fast. The defense needs to control gaps without being able to keep up with the forwards. I could go on and on forever about this, but the EA team needs to shift the defensive heights and weights to more accurately portray the currently league.
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