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"Just the same" guys?

Replies

  • Sega82mega
    1532 posts Member
    edited September 4
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Same responses from everyone as usual as per every year since god knows when.


    And as I say to everyone every year, if you dont like it go back and play 19, or 18 or 17 etc etc but no one does. Your expectations are through the roof every year.


    Gameplay is smoother, passing requires even more skill with your player more realistically having to pass the puck with more accuracy.

    Passing requires you to be facing or have very high probability for passes to more accurate. In the real nhl passing isnt very high and in this game it can get crazy.

    Everyone comes here to complain. Its better all ready then 20, I loved 20. Best game to date and Im sure 21 will continue the trend.

    Everyone forgets your also part of the top 15 active NHL users, take it down a few points and stop being so karenish.

    Excuse me for sayin, but damn thats fresh to read. Same way everyone is getting tired of my positive attitude im getting tired of this never ending hate on the game that dosent do what everyone like it to do.

    Mather a fact im still learning this beta, every game I find something new to explore.

    What I find out so far, L2 is now a great weapon to find space to take advantage of players that just is puck focus and go for big hit all game long, and the other way when you play defense, dont put hard pressure on puck carrier, charge speed and try to cover up he's next pass.

    Its so much more 'mind' in this game then just to go nuts and try to score 100 goals in 3 periods.

    *And best one yet, its still just a Technical beta.
  • It's really hard to say anything positive about the game right now, because we can't get full 5v5 or 6v6 games with the test. It's all 3v3 and mostly drop ins. You can't get a picture of the full hockey experience as it is, because 3v3 is so skewed.

    About passing, if anything it seems better/easier than in NHL20, where passes where oddly slow. At least this seems better in the test for me.

    You fanboys would look a bit more classy if you desisted from personal remarks about the 'complainers'. The complaints won't disappear because most of them are legitimate. With you guys, EA would get no honest criticism, because everything would be always best ever.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    It's really hard to say anything positive about the game right now, because we can't get full 5v5 or 6v6 games with the test. It's all 3v3 and mostly drop ins. You can't get a picture of the full hockey experience as it is, because 3v3 is so skewed.

    About passing, if anything it seems better/easier than in NHL20, where passes where oddly slow. At least this seems better in the test for me.

    You fanboys would look a bit more classy if you desisted from personal remarks about the 'complainers'. The complaints won't disappear because most of them are legitimate. With you guys, EA would get no honest criticism, because everything would be always best ever.

    Just beacuse something is best ever dosent mean it can have flaws. I try to separate user-error vs game errors, I find us both guilty.

    Im not afraid to give criticism, but its importen how it's delivered. BF1 is one of my favorite out here, he can really delivere criticism in a good way if he's in the right mood.
  • TheMajjam
    722 posts Member
    edited September 4
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    It's really hard to say anything positive about the game right now, because we can't get full 5v5 or 6v6 games with the test. It's all 3v3 and mostly drop ins. You can't get a picture of the full hockey experience as it is, because 3v3 is so skewed.

    About passing, if anything it seems better/easier than in NHL20, where passes where oddly slow. At least this seems better in the test for me.

    You fanboys would look a bit more classy if you desisted from personal remarks about the 'complainers'. The complaints won't disappear because most of them are legitimate. With you guys, EA would get no honest criticism, because everything would be always best ever.

    NHL 21 complaints on the EA forum.
    NHL 21 complaints on Reddit.
    NHL 21 complaints on Gaming Era.
    NHL 21 complaints on Facebook.
    NHL 21 complaints on HF Boards.
    NHL 21 complaints on Twitter.
    Let's not forget that Madden 21 is at DefCon 1 right now with its fans.

    All this complaining about phantom issues are just in our head. We have a perfect game here. Even better, the passing system is amazing, amirite?

    On a serious note. I'll never stop complaining until EA gives us a game deserving of what they're asking their fans to pay for. I'll never stop complaining until their poor annual development cycle yields something more than glorified DLC of yesteryear features. I'll never stop complaining until they bring back hockey instead of Fortnite on ice. I'll never stop complaining until it feels like this game doesn't revolve around HUT. I'll never stop complaining until EA stops catering to gamechangers and listen to the vocal majority. I'll never stop complaining until this game truly becomes a hockey sim again, the same in which EA has obviously forgotten its roots.

    If you think this game is the greatest hockey game you've played, then I'm happy for you!! I truly applaud the dozens of you that have found your end all, be all hockey game.

    dozens_of_us_arrested_development.gif
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    Same responses from everyone as usual as per every year since god knows when.


    And as I say to everyone every year, if you dont like it go back and play 19, or 18 or 17 etc etc but no one does. Your expectations are through the roof every year.


    Gameplay is smoother, passing requires even more skill with your player more realistically having to pass the puck with more accuracy.

    Passing requires you to be facing or have very high probability for passes to more accurate. In the real nhl passing isnt very high and in this game it can get crazy.

    Everyone comes here to complain. Its better all ready then 20, I loved 20. Best game to date and Im sure 21 will continue the trend.

    Everyone forgets your also part of the top 15 active NHL users, take it down a few points and stop being so karenish.

    same complaints because they never get addressed.

    gameplay is not smoother. some things seem better some worse.

    passing seems NO different to me.

    not sure if you understand the word karenish but that doesn't apply here.


    again game isn't terrible but its terrible that online gamers are forced to dish out full price every year to keep playing the same game with a minor patch. anyone NOT recognizing that is just ignorant to the facts or supporting EA regardless.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    It's really hard to say anything positive about the game right now, because we can't get full 5v5 or 6v6 games with the test. It's all 3v3 and mostly drop ins. You can't get a picture of the full hockey experience as it is, because 3v3 is so skewed.

    About passing, if anything it seems better/easier than in NHL20, where passes where oddly slow. At least this seems better in the test for me.

    You fanboys would look a bit more classy if you desisted from personal remarks about the 'complainers'. The complaints won't disappear because most of them are legitimate. With you guys, EA would get no honest criticism, because everything would be always best ever.

    aint this the truth. i can say without a doubt that the drop in experience in nhl 21 test so far is the worst I've EVER had.

    every game is full of terrible players and trolls. seriously the tech test is full of trolls. if that isn't a sign of the state of this game I don't know what is.

    And there's so few players even in this test i don't even see the point of it. i've known 100s of EASHL players over the years most of whom have played 10s of 1000s of games of EASHL. How many are in this test? zero. not one that I can see. They just dont care. They know what they are going to get and its not exciting and whats the point, no one at EA ever listens anyway. They will buy the game to club with friends and just deal with the situation.

    most feel the same way. we have paid roughly $400 over 6 years to basically play the same game where the actual gameplay mechanics is slightly better than it was on PS3 but everything else about the game is worse.

  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 4
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Same responses from everyone as usual as per every year since god knows when.

    And as I say to everyone every year, if you dont like it go back and play 19, or 18 or 17 etc etc but no one does. Your expectations are through the roof every year.

    Gameplay is smoother, passing requires even more skill with your player more realistically having to pass the puck with more accuracy.

    Passing requires you to be facing or have very high probability for passes to more accurate. In the real nhl passing isnt very high and in this game it can get crazy.

    Everyone comes here to complain. Its better all ready then 20, I loved 20. Best game to date and Im sure 21 will continue the trend.

    Everyone forgets your also part of the top 15 active NHL users, take it down a few points and stop being so karenish.

    I am not saying there aren't things I like, or that the game is terrible. I am having a difficult time adjusting but I do like the somewhat faster gameplay and there is some neat board play that I don't think I have seen before, hitting seems better, etc. And I will give all the cool new things their due...

    ...but ...

    ...before I can do any of that: This game needs to address a serious game-breaking imbalance.

    Last night I shut off my xbox out of sheer frustration in *mid game*. After quitting the game before in sheer frustration. And I am the guy who can often be found being the last guy left on one side when my team is down 4 goals and the rest of my team quit, so that's pretty bad.

    In short: Defending in this game right now is woefully bad. Pretty much unplayable for me, and that's saying a lot.

    Forget about the dekes and even the currently OP cross crease for a second:

    Between the increase in overall game speed, and the change in skating - someone noted that there might be a longer delay than previously when reversing direction or "taking off" - both human and AI players are getting burned on transitions and the resulting odd man rushes at an *unprecedented* rate.

    And look, I am not some ignorant troll : I am willing to concede that some of this will be on us, as defenders, to adjust to if there have been changes (tho is it too much to ask for this stuff to be communicated in some kind of change log?). BUT I don't think this is entirely the "flat footed defensemen" argument others have proposed.

    Why?

    Because even the *AI defenders* are getting beat CONSISTENTLY; even worse than human DMen . This is not something that should really be happening with the regularity it does. If the game has changed and we need to make some adjustments, great. I can live with that. But the AI D should already have been changed to have this new awareness. The AI D seem to lack any IQ whatsoever when it comes to recognizing situations that could result in a turnover high in the offensive zone. One unfortunate side effect of this is that if I want to do anything to contribute offensively at all, I pretty much have to second guess myself - even trying to keep the puck in the zone... because I know the AI D cannot be relied upon to cover for me... they are playing aggressive in the O zone all the time.

    I do think perhaps some speed adjustments for puck carriers vs defensemen may be needed and could alleviate this somewhat. Someone also suggested that the Dmen speed probably could be updated to be a bit more reflective.

    Dear EA Devs: If I am doing this wrong - and I am willing to entertain there are some things I should stop doing that previously worked, and things I should now be doing to adjust to the new changes - Please clue me in. I don't want to hate playing D in this game.

    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Just beacuse something is best ever dosent mean it can have flaws. I try to separate user-error vs game errors, I find us both guilty.

    And I think it's important to acknowledge when its the game vs it's us...

    This hits upon a key issue I think.

    If we are lucky... those of us who frequent this forum *might* pick up some tidbit from EA staff on how a particular tool/action/move was done wrongly by a user: user posts a video complaining about something being broken, EA staff explains why what they did didn't work and what they might do to be more successful. That's great, but at that point it 's basically arcane knowledge. How many non-forum people do you suppose know all the mechanics of the poke check or stick lift, which situations cause it to be unsuccessful or worse, incur a penalty (beyond the should-be-obvious "dont poke check from behind"), to know how and when they should be doing them to be successful. This knowledge is far from common, even to people on here.

    I am great with being told I am not doing something correctly or not adjusting to changes made... but would it kill EA to explain this stuff better, and communicate it more effectively/widely? At the very least what changes have been made, if not "what to do now".

    The in game training module is helpful but it will only get you so far. Maybe a "Pro series" on YouTube explaining different things like they have explained here: how and when to do poke checks - when they work and when they don't, with clear video examples and explanations. Stick lifts, dekes, hitting, saucer passes, clearing the puck, whatever
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Just beacuse something is best ever dosent mean it can have flaws. I try to separate user-error vs game errors, I find us both guilty.

    And I think it's important to acknowledge when its the game vs it's us...

    This hits upon a key issue I think.

    If we are lucky... those of us who frequent this forum *might* pick up some tidbit from EA staff on how a particular tool/action/move was done wrongly by a user: user posts a video complaining about something being broken, EA staff explains why what they did didn't work and what they might do to be more successful. That's great, but at that point it 's basically arcane knowledge. How many non-forum people do you suppose know all the mechanics of the poke check or stick lift, which situations cause it to be unsuccessful or worse, incur a penalty (beyond the should-be-obvious "dont poke check from behind"), to know how and when they should be doing them to be successful. This knowledge is far from common, even to people on here.

    I am great with being told I am not doing something correctly or not adjusting to changes made... but would it kill EA to explain this stuff better, and communicate it more effectively/widely? At the very least what changes have been made, if not "what to do now".

    The in game training module is helpful but it will only get you so far. Maybe a "Pro series" on YouTube explaining different things like they have explained here: how and when to do poke checks - when they work and when they don't, with clear video examples and explanations. Stick lifts, dekes, hitting, saucer passes, clearing the puck, whatever

    For it to be right, the best way to win must be if you are using the tools we got to play, (skating, checking, DSS, poke, dekes) in the purpose the developers want us to use it. Cause if there's any shortcuts to winning games, people dont see enough good reasons to play "how you suppose to do". For example, if you can win games just by pushing left D-pad forward and learn some successful dekes that gets the job done, then it's good enough, why try to learn to do everything correctly, in the sentence by handle the controller right, and try to play real hockey and win if you can play 50% hockey and win much more.
  • B_Bunny wrote: »
    They want a revolutionary addition every year. The analogs moving your hockey stick. EASHL. HUT. To be fair, it's been a while since something brand new really stuck and wow'd everyone.

    If they're going to charge $60 every year, then why not provide something worth that full AAA price every year? That's one of the biggest gripes, forcing us to pay full price for what is clearly not an AAA level game every single year. They're missing so much of the bigger picture and it's so frustrating.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »

    For it to be right, the best way to win must be if you are using the tools we got to play, (skating, checking, DSS, poke, dekes) in the purpose the developers want us to use it. Cause if there's any shortcuts to winning games, people dont see enough good reasons to play "how you suppose to do". For example, if you can win games just by pushing left D-pad forward and learn some successful dekes that gets the job done, then it's good enough, why try to learn to do everything correctly, in the sentence by handle the controller right, and try to play real hockey and win if you can play 50% hockey and win much more.

    Sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here in relation to what you quoted me on? :(

    I am talking defense primarily here as that's what I play. Defensive strategy and tactics involves things like:
    • Taking away time and space
    • Maintaining proper gap control
    • Separating the player from the puck
    • Forcing puck carriers/shooters to the perimeter
    • Breaking up passing plays
    • Preventing shots form getting to the net
    • Clearing the front of the net to prevent tips
    • Allowing goalie a clean line of sight to the shooter
    No doubt others - I have already spent too long on this post LOL

    To execute on these things, here are the tools EA has given us:
    • back skate
    • poke check
    • stick lift
    • body checking
    • hip check
    • net battles
    • shot blocking

    I can wish for new tools, or for the defensive tools we have been given to behave differently, or to be more effective when I try to use them the way I *think* they should be used.

    But at the end of the day, I will settle for using them as intended/designed...

    HOWEVER

    In cases where it's not obvious what the correct usage is, EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    I think this is especially true of things like the very nuanced poke check, or net battles - which, based on controls, is at least slightly more complex than is explained in the training video:

    bghyhu2wzh6a.jpeg
    kho8oj3f3m79.jpeg

    It's great we can come on here and have EA look at a video and go "Oh that didn't work because..." but wouldn't it be better if they communicated the effective use of a tool well enough and broadly enough that people could understand how to use it?

    Whether people are playing "real hockey" against me, or using glitches/exploits, is irrelevant to me, in this context at least. Obviously I would prefer exploits be removed and people played "real hockey".

    But again, at the end of the day, I can't control any of that - nor the tools EA gives us to defend against them. All I am asking for is to know how to use the defensive tools *I* have been given effectively. And for the most part that info is far from common knowledge. And until it is, we are stuck with players on one hand saying"this is broken" and EA on the other saying" oh no no you are doing it wrong". Conversations which as well know, go round here endlessly.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »

    For it to be right, the best way to win must be if you are using the tools we got to play, (skating, checking, DSS, poke, dekes) in the purpose the developers want us to use it. Cause if there's any shortcuts to winning games, people dont see enough good reasons to play "how you suppose to do". For example, if you can win games just by pushing left D-pad forward and learn some successful dekes that gets the job done, then it's good enough, why try to learn to do everything correctly, in the sentence by handle the controller right, and try to play real hockey and win if you can play 50% hockey and win much more.

    Sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here in relation to what you quoted me on? :(

    I am talking defense primarily here as that's what I play. Defensive strategy and tactics involves things like:
    • Taking away time and space
    • Maintaining proper gap control
    • Separating the player from the puck
    • Forcing puck carriers/shooters to the perimeter
    • Breaking up passing plays
    • Preventing shots form getting to the net
    • Clearing the front of the net to prevent tips
    • Allowing goalie a clean line of sight to the shooter
    No doubt others - I have already spent too long on this post LOL

    To execute on these things, here are the tools EA has given us:
    • back skate
    • poke check
    • stick lift
    • body checking
    • hip check
    • net battles
    • shot blocking

    I can wish for new tools, or for the defensive tools we have been given to behave differently, or to be more effective when I try to use them the way I *think* they should be used.

    But at the end of the day, I will settle for using them as intended/designed...

    HOWEVER

    In cases where it's not obvious what the correct usage is, EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    I think this is especially true of things like the very nuanced poke check, or net battles - which, based on controls, is at least slightly more complex than is explained in the training video:

    bghyhu2wzh6a.jpeg
    kho8oj3f3m79.jpeg

    It's great we can come on here and have EA look at a video and go "Oh that didn't work because..." but wouldn't it be better if they communicated the effective use of a tool well enough and broadly enough that people could understand how to use it?

    Whether people are playing "real hockey" against me, or using glitches/exploits, is irrelevant to me, in this context at least. Obviously I would prefer exploits be removed and people played "real hockey".

    But again, at the end of the day, I can't control any of that - nor the tools EA gives us to defend against them. All I am asking for is to know how to use the defensive tools *I* have been given effectively. And for the most part that info is far from common knowledge. And until it is, we are stuck with players on one hand saying"this is broken" and EA on the other saying" oh no no you are doing it wrong". Conversations which as well know, go round here endlessly.

    No it was my fault, I wasen't clear enough. I was more into how we use game mechanics as easy as it gets. We tend to not care to much of learning to do it the right way, we rather do it the best way. How you score most easy, thats all we need to know, then try to repeat that over and over again. Then when a new game comes out, and you do it all over again, you blame the game for being the same...

    But sorry for quoted you.. It wasen't really that related to what you said, more than I got into how to use the controller the 'right' way.

    And you are right about that EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    Cause I do think this game is so much more then just to skate up and down and do a 1timer.
  • Stovetop9620
    385 posts Member
    edited September 4
    @Sega82mega

    I can answer this by you answering a few questions.

    1. Can you do an "instinctive" give and go with your AI teammates?
    2. Can you do an "instinctive" offensive zone overlap?
    3. On a 3 on 1 does 1 forward "instinctively" drive the net while the other trails?
    4. Can you run a smooth cycle down low?
    5. Can you run a triangle+2 on defense?
    6. How about a box+1?
    7. Can you run a left wing lock on the forecheck?

    You see how this is going, right?

    Imagine playing football without a playbook...thats what this game is. Or baseball without pitch types. Or basketball without the pick and roll. Hockey isn't played aimlessly moving around. It's a smart man's game. Before I get attacked for being too real and honest ill say this...this game would be MORE successful if there was a chess-like approach to playing it. Monotony would die. Cheese would suffer.

    This game will never change. I accept it. Just give me create a play back, EA. I'll program hockey into it myself.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »

    For it to be right, the best way to win must be if you are using the tools we got to play, (skating, checking, DSS, poke, dekes) in the purpose the developers want us to use it. Cause if there's any shortcuts to winning games, people dont see enough good reasons to play "how you suppose to do". For example, if you can win games just by pushing left D-pad forward and learn some successful dekes that gets the job done, then it's good enough, why try to learn to do everything correctly, in the sentence by handle the controller right, and try to play real hockey and win if you can play 50% hockey and win much more.

    Sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here in relation to what you quoted me on? :(

    I am talking defense primarily here as that's what I play. Defensive strategy and tactics involves things like:
    • Taking away time and space
    • Maintaining proper gap control
    • Separating the player from the puck
    • Forcing puck carriers/shooters to the perimeter
    • Breaking up passing plays
    • Preventing shots form getting to the net
    • Clearing the front of the net to prevent tips
    • Allowing goalie a clean line of sight to the shooter
    No doubt others - I have already spent too long on this post LOL

    To execute on these things, here are the tools EA has given us:
    • back skate
    • poke check
    • stick lift
    • body checking
    • hip check
    • net battles
    • shot blocking

    I can wish for new tools, or for the defensive tools we have been given to behave differently, or to be more effective when I try to use them the way I *think* they should be used.

    But at the end of the day, I will settle for using them as intended/designed...

    HOWEVER

    In cases where it's not obvious what the correct usage is, EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    I think this is especially true of things like the very nuanced poke check, or net battles - which, based on controls, is at least slightly more complex than is explained in the training video:

    bghyhu2wzh6a.jpeg
    kho8oj3f3m79.jpeg

    It's great we can come on here and have EA look at a video and go "Oh that didn't work because..." but wouldn't it be better if they communicated the effective use of a tool well enough and broadly enough that people could understand how to use it?

    Whether people are playing "real hockey" against me, or using glitches/exploits, is irrelevant to me, in this context at least. Obviously I would prefer exploits be removed and people played "real hockey".

    But again, at the end of the day, I can't control any of that - nor the tools EA gives us to defend against them. All I am asking for is to know how to use the defensive tools *I* have been given effectively. And for the most part that info is far from common knowledge. And until it is, we are stuck with players on one hand saying"this is broken" and EA on the other saying" oh no no you are doing it wrong". Conversations which as well know, go round here endlessly.

    No it was my fault, I wasen't clear enough. I was more into how we use game mechanics as easy as it gets. We tend to not care to much of learning to do it the right way, we rather do it the best way. How you score most easy, thats all we need to know, then try to repeat that over and over again. Then when a new game comes out, and you do it all over again, you blame the game for being the same...

    But sorry for quoted you.. It wasen't really that related to what you said, more than I got into how to use the controller the 'right' way.

    And you are right about that EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    Cause I do think this game is so much more then just to skate up and down and do a 1timer.

    This is the disconnect. Those of us who are complaining are doing so because the correct way and the efficient way should be the same. To win in NHL21 you should be doing the same things that your favorite NHL franchise does to win. Not only is that not the case, but the overly efficient "wrong" or "easy" ways are not even corrected years later. This is why you see frustrations boiling over for people who have played for many years.
  • @Sega82mega

    I can answer this by you answering a few questions.

    1. Can you do an "instinctive" give and go with your AI teammates?
    2. Can you do an "instinctive" offensive zone overlap?
    3. On a 3 on 1 does 1 forward "instinctively" drive the net while the other trails?
    4. Can you run a smooth cycle down low?
    5. Can you run a triangle+2 on defense?
    6. How about a box+1?
    7. Can you run a left wing lock on the forecheck?

    You see how this is going, right?

    Imagine playing football without a playbook...thats what this game is. Or baseball without pitch types. Or basketball without the pick and roll. Hockey isn't played aimlessly moving around. It's a smart man's game. Before I get attacked for being too real and honest ill say this...this game would be MORE successful if there was a chess-like approach to playing it. Monotony would die. Cheese would suffer.

    This game will never change. I accept it. Just give me create a play back, EA. I'll program hockey into it myself.

    I dont disagree to what you sayin, I would love if everyone played the exact way that you describes. But I wouldn’t say it's a clever move to go full power offense(like many "chess players do") and forget everything what defense is?
    A car can go forwards and backwards, a player in this game can only go forward, 50% of the game is missing beacuse we dont care to learn us to play both ways. But if im going to be abit critical about EA, then I say its there fault no one really care to play defense, cause all you need is a good offens. It's very importen defense starts to be a key to winning games, it always starts with a good defense, look at canucks.
  • jrago73 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »

    For it to be right, the best way to win must be if you are using the tools we got to play, (skating, checking, DSS, poke, dekes) in the purpose the developers want us to use it. Cause if there's any shortcuts to winning games, people dont see enough good reasons to play "how you suppose to do". For example, if you can win games just by pushing left D-pad forward and learn some successful dekes that gets the job done, then it's good enough, why try to learn to do everything correctly, in the sentence by handle the controller right, and try to play real hockey and win if you can play 50% hockey and win much more.

    Sorry, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here in relation to what you quoted me on? :(

    I am talking defense primarily here as that's what I play. Defensive strategy and tactics involves things like:
    • Taking away time and space
    • Maintaining proper gap control
    • Separating the player from the puck
    • Forcing puck carriers/shooters to the perimeter
    • Breaking up passing plays
    • Preventing shots form getting to the net
    • Clearing the front of the net to prevent tips
    • Allowing goalie a clean line of sight to the shooter
    No doubt others - I have already spent too long on this post LOL

    To execute on these things, here are the tools EA has given us:
    • back skate
    • poke check
    • stick lift
    • body checking
    • hip check
    • net battles
    • shot blocking

    I can wish for new tools, or for the defensive tools we have been given to behave differently, or to be more effective when I try to use them the way I *think* they should be used.

    But at the end of the day, I will settle for using them as intended/designed...

    HOWEVER

    In cases where it's not obvious what the correct usage is, EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    I think this is especially true of things like the very nuanced poke check, or net battles - which, based on controls, is at least slightly more complex than is explained in the training video:

    bghyhu2wzh6a.jpeg
    kho8oj3f3m79.jpeg

    It's great we can come on here and have EA look at a video and go "Oh that didn't work because..." but wouldn't it be better if they communicated the effective use of a tool well enough and broadly enough that people could understand how to use it?

    Whether people are playing "real hockey" against me, or using glitches/exploits, is irrelevant to me, in this context at least. Obviously I would prefer exploits be removed and people played "real hockey".

    But again, at the end of the day, I can't control any of that - nor the tools EA gives us to defend against them. All I am asking for is to know how to use the defensive tools *I* have been given effectively. And for the most part that info is far from common knowledge. And until it is, we are stuck with players on one hand saying"this is broken" and EA on the other saying" oh no no you are doing it wrong". Conversations which as well know, go round here endlessly.

    No it was my fault, I wasen't clear enough. I was more into how we use game mechanics as easy as it gets. We tend to not care to much of learning to do it the right way, we rather do it the best way. How you score most easy, thats all we need to know, then try to repeat that over and over again. Then when a new game comes out, and you do it all over again, you blame the game for being the same...

    But sorry for quoted you.. It wasen't really that related to what you said, more than I got into how to use the controller the 'right' way.

    And you are right about that EA could be doing a better job of broadly educating players on how the tools should be used, for best effectiveness. In detail if required.

    Cause I do think this game is so much more then just to skate up and down and do a 1timer.

    This is the disconnect. Those of us who are complaining are doing so because the correct way and the efficient way should be the same. To win in NHL21 you should be doing the same things that your favorite NHL franchise does to win. Not only is that not the case, but the overly efficient "wrong" or "easy" ways are not even corrected years later. This is why you see frustrations boiling over for people who have played for many years.

    100 agree but in this beta I have played pretty fun games, if both users is there by same reasons, this 21 can really work, but it takes two, to dance(online vs) , and if the other player like to fool around, then its pretty hard to stop the game from being jack....
  • Sega82mega wrote: »

    100 agree but in this beta I have played pretty fun games, if both users is there by same reasons, this 21 can really work, but it takes two, to dance(online vs) , and if the other player like to fool around, then its pretty hard to stop the game from being jack....
    Maybe this is part of the disconnect. I think most of us are talking about EASHL and you are talking about Online vs.

    Play defense for a few games in EASHL and come back to me and tell me how much fun you had.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68
    810 posts Member
    edited September 4
    I just played a 3v3 drop in game.

    Score: 9-2

    I had one of our 2 goals as a DMan. Notwithstanding most forwards do not know how to play D in 3v3, as soon as there is a discrepancy in offensive skill between the two teams, its a dumpster fire from front to back.

    Not only is playing defense currently not fun or rewarding, I can't even be effective any more. It's unplayable 9/10 games.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • I managed top play one game as a C on Wednesday, the only game of Drop-ins I found all day. I played a mix of offense and defense with my Grinder build no traits, no specialties. We ended up winning 8-3, I had 2 goals and 4 assists. My teammate was kind of a puck hog at first, but half way through the match, when he saw I was trying to find him and pass the puck, he started reciprocating. But by that time he already had 4 goals and the AI had one. I helped the AI get its second goal at the end too.

    You'd think I'd be happy to have won a game, but I was mostly sad because I searched almost the entire day and found NO ONE playing EASHL. I found a couple of matches in ONES. I found that 3s game when I went skater. I found absolutely none when I wanted to play Goalie. The only 6s experience I got was on the 1st day and that was a mixed bag as well.

    This game is just not fun. It's not fun to play it, because not only do you have to contend with other people's perception of how they want to play this game, which often clashes with others. But you also have to FIGHT against the game itself too often as well. It's not fun to search for hours just to find a game, only to finally find one and then half the players leave after 2 minutes. It's not fun to play a position and not be able to do what you're supposed to do, unless you play as a forward (as I experienced above).

    I'd love nothing more than to praise EA's NHL videogame. Hockey is my favorite sport. I loved playing it as a kid, I loved watching on TV. But this game doesn't bring any of that joy. It just brings anguish and misery for all concerned.

    As a side note, I uninstalled the "Test" that same Wednesday night after I posted my feedback on the EA Answers forum. I feel like I experienced EVERYTHING the demo had to offer and I've already seen it before so there was no use letting it take up space on my hard drive.

    I will enjoy reading the reactions when the full game comes out! Enjoy the last two days of the demo!
  • @Sega82mega

    I can answer this by you answering a few questions.

    1. Can you do an "instinctive" give and go with your AI teammates?
    2. Can you do an "instinctive" offensive zone overlap?
    3. On a 3 on 1 does 1 forward "instinctively" drive the net while the other trails?
    4. Can you run a smooth cycle down low?
    5. Can you run a triangle+2 on defense?
    6. How about a box+1?
    7. Can you run a left wing lock on the forecheck?

    You see how this is going, right?

    Imagine playing football without a playbook...thats what this game is. Or baseball without pitch types. Or basketball without the pick and roll. Hockey isn't played aimlessly moving around. It's a smart man's game. Before I get attacked for being too real and honest ill say this...this game would be MORE successful if there was a chess-like approach to playing it. Monotony would die. Cheese would suffer.

    This game will never change. I accept it. Just give me create a play back, EA. I'll program hockey into it myself.

    I can answer this with a simple no you can't , basic hockey isn't programed into this at all .. great post my friend
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