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Tired of all these rigged games

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  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    It's "Hey, you got 4 minutes to score a BAJILLION goals! GO!!!!"

    But in a lot of high level games the scores are 2-1 or 3-2. If someone is giving up a "bajillion" goals that's likely a defensive issue they need to re-evaluate.

    Have you seen my screenshots? One goal games yes, but the stat disparity is crazy. One goal games aren't indicative of high level games at all. Well, in our case usually, one side is definitely not high level.

    I saw your screenshots in the other thread and will have to take a look at your channel when I have a chance. You're not wrong in your statement, but stat lines should never be taken face value. I can't tell you how many games I've won with only 5 total shots because I was patient wait for an opportunity to strike, while the opponent was slapping shots halfway across the blue line all game looking for deflections and rebounds. I've seen it work against me before where they'll get 2 in the 1st period and another in the 2nd early on. I've seen it also not pan out at all, so the risk/reward balance there seems about right from my personal experience.

    I think where you're wanting a change is to have more opportunities to shoot the puck from different spots less contested, but have the goalie be more adaptive so the game has a feeling of being more action packed with more shots going off, but still still only rewarding skillful shots.

    Wouldn't mind a lot more rebounds but only if the goalie is able to quickly get back in a position to stop it. This way it feels faster and opens up the game to more outcomes rather than players relying on one-timers. Thoughts?

    EDIT: Post I was referring to but mixed up your name with Sturmwolfe when talking about checking out the channel from this post.

    Giving it further thought, I want to address this because it bothers me. It bothers me a lot that a representative of this game thinks the way you do, and it's because of this that there's push back against blatantly seeing this game forces games to be close. It happens once, fine. Happens twice, bad luck, but these games are a big chunk of our games.

    In this thread, I have posted 9 screen shots of goal disparities. I'm not the only one. Here's one from the past.

    W7ZdvFc.png

    You look at this and your first go-to thought is that we're just pumping out shots looking for rebounds? Not only that, but the reason the game is close is because the other team is somehow so hockey intuitive that they're waiting for the best shots at the right time?

    Let me get this straight and reiterate. You're giving more benefit out the doubt to the team that has less shots, almost 7 minutes of attack time against them, less face-offs wins, and more penalty minutes = Our team takes weak shots and just looks for rebounds and their team is playing a strategic long game like they're the best of the two teams. You think this yet you can't take my screenshots at face value. Got it.

    Our first game tonight! One of the games where we dominate and it actually shows on the score. We'll get to that though. I just wanted to highlight that we kept these guys to one shot during the first period. Here's that shot. Is this the kind of shot you're talking about the better team doing??? I hope not, because these are the shots bad teams usually take because you've still made it so easy to tap in rebound goals that it's become commonplace. It's the OPPOSITE of your thoughts on these games, is the point I'm trying to make here. The better team on the stat sheet don't always shoot for rebounds all game, it's bad teams usually do.

    They try this all game and even eventually get one. All. Game. They even have passing options for great shots, but these kinds of teams go to? Rebounds.

    OL9SNMn.gif

    BkvoDcX.png

    Y6JclVA.gif

    Still with me here? Good. All in all, we win this game by a landslide.

    Gry7XSf.png

    Now you want proof of our game. I get that. However, people in these forums know me to ALWAYS post gifs to compliment my points. So here are some of our plays of this game and believe me that we play this way every... single... night.

    We love shots! We take a lot of them. Quite a few of these come from me as well, but I like one-timers. They usually go in and if they don't, there's a good chance we'll recover the puck on a save. Still a far cry from just throwing shots on the net. These plays are set up. Most usually are.

    qBsM2VJ.gif

    Slap pass goals? Yeah. We've mastered that too.

    gtURuuW.gif

    Ticker-tape passing and knowing where your teammates are going to be? Priceless.

    C7PESJi.gif

    Here's one from a few games later. Could have had more, but copping clips is tiresome.

    p2d7xe1.gif

    Time on attack. Very important for us. The more time the puck is in the opponents zone, the more mistakes they're going to make getting out of it, and the more they run around. Ours is always high because we value:

    # Passing
    # Position
    # Smart Shots
    # Smart Plays
    # Team before the individual (This one is my person favorite and I love the team I'm on because while you've made it so easy for one-man shows to eek out a pathetic existence in NHL 20, we've managed to maintain our team game more than anything).

    tdEEhLF.gif

    Added bonus. Record and individual stats.

    qMMUxWp.png

    2EKtmKz.png

    If it seems like I'm bragging, I'm not. It seems this is what it takes to get the point across that teams that are dominating on the stat sheet 98% of the time deserve to dominate. It's not a fluke. Just because you won a game scoring on 5 shots doesn't make you better, it just means that team's AI goalie crumpled for whatever reason AND it happens a lot. A lot.

    It's ludicrous to play the way we play for 39 shots and the opponent's goalie is Peter Parker and you have a goalie that's literally blind on your end that lets in the softest, unrealistic goals. This even extends to AI. It's reasons like these people scream DDA and Ice Tilt, but you've taken real concerns about how the game acts and made it a hockey bag reward goal joke.

    All in all, I hope this provides some insight and helps you take stats a little more at face value. Especially if a team is dominating in most of the stats that actually matter.

    Post edited by TheMajjam on
  • Sega82mega
    4209 posts Member
    And how do you want EA to do about people that refused to play in a certain way? Make the puck magically disappear from their sticks?

    I find it hard to complain about other people's ways of playing the game.. I hate to loose against toxic hockey, but it's a choose we all most do, decide how we want to win games.

    And I think EA is trying there best to make it hard as possible for those that clearly doesn't seem to enjoy hockey in is purest way. But to complain about a team that only tries to go for rebounds isn't the way to go.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    And how do you want EA to do about people that refused to play in a certain way? Make the puck magically disappear from their sticks?

    I find it hard to complain about other people's ways of playing the game.. I hate to loose against toxic hockey, but it's a choose we all most do, decide how we want to win games.

    And I think EA is trying there best to make it hard as possible for those that clearly doesn't seem to enjoy hockey in is purest way. But to complain about a team that only tries to go for rebounds isn't the way to go.

    What are you even talking about? I don't care about how others play the game. You're missing the sequence of events.

    1) I posts screens of games where we dominate the stat sheet, but the games are close. Blue says that games played by top teams are usually close, when in fact, the majority aren't.

    2) Blue's response to this is you can't take screenshots at face value. That, he can win games in 5 shots while the team that has more shots are just throwing shots at the net. I took this as a slight because it is insinuating that my team (any team with more shots really) is just throwing shots at the net.

    3) I prove my point and go all out doing it.

    4) I still have no clue what you're talking about if that what you got out of my post, but keep fighting the good fight as usual, EA warrior.
  • Sega82mega
    4209 posts Member
    Don't you play games against people in the same division as you guys are? I don't know how eashl works but in rivals you get matched up against people that are equal in points, not necessarily more skilled, depending how we all define, skill.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    And how do you want EA to do about people that refused to play in a certain way? Make the puck magically disappear from their sticks?

    I find it hard to complain about other people's ways of playing the game.. I hate to loose against toxic hockey, but it's a choose we all most do, decide how we want to win games.

    And I think EA is trying there best to make it hard as possible for those that clearly doesn't seem to enjoy hockey in is purest way. But to complain about a team that only tries to go for rebounds isn't the way to go.

    It's amazing that almost two years ago, I was addressing this very same thing with this thread I made. Blueberry post echos some of the same sentiments I heard back in 2018:

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/230539/why-doesnt-this-game-ever-reward-great-play/p1
    You can show us pictures all day of after-game stats, but for all we know, you could be just passing too much and taking slapshots on every zone entry....

    Imagine someone telling you that you're passing to much and taking slapshots on every zone entry. Actually, I don't have to imagine it. Happened then and it's happening again.

    Some things never, ever change.
  • kezz123
    647 posts Member
    Honestly, the second person you quoted i just ignore as he has been like that for years. Cant tell if its sucking up to EA for favors or blatant trolling or pure blissful ignorance but its actually mind blowing how wrong he always is about everything.

    Anyways. numbers speak for themselves. Screenshots and videos and posts should be helpful to devs in understanding WHY the game is failing to generate sales but its clearly not.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4738 posts EA Community Manager
    @TheMajjam

    Screenshots cannot be taken at face value because they are the end result of a game, but did not tell the story or flow of the game. I'm a big NFL fan myself and a perfect example is Jameis Winston. He was one of the best fantasy quarterbacks last season because he put up huge passing yards and multiple touchdown games, but when I watched those games throughout the season he constantly made bad decisions leading to turnovers which forced him to throw the ball all game. So if you took it at face value, you'd go "wow, he put up 500 yards and 4 touchdowns, he's going to lead them to the Super Bowl!"

    That's really the direction were I was going with that statement. It's also not a slight at your skill, clearly from the highlight clips you're able to hold your own. Impressive, nonetheless.

    When I take a look at those screenshots of the scores, it always helps narrate a story but there's a lot that goes missed.

    In your first screenshot you have 34 shots with a total of 4 power plays. You're averaging just about 11 shots per period. I am under the assumption you took most of your shots during those power plays because you had the advantage. My best guess is you were in control all game, but the opponent is great at defense, especially under power plays. The stat sheet for that one was in your favor which thankfully led to a win.

    Thanks for taking time out to crop together the clips to help highlight your concerns on AI.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited July 2020
    @TheMajjam

    Screenshots cannot be taken at face value because they are the end result of a game, but did not tell the story or flow of the game. I'm a big NFL fan myself and a perfect example is Jameis Winston. He was one of the best fantasy quarterbacks last season because he put up huge passing yards and multiple touchdown games, but when I watched those games throughout the season he constantly made bad decisions leading to turnovers which forced him to throw the ball all game. So if you took it at face value, you'd go "wow, he put up 500 yards and 4 touchdowns, he's going to lead them to the Super Bowl!"

    That's really the direction were I was going with that statement. It's also not a slight at your skill, clearly from the highlight clips you're able to hold your own. Impressive, nonetheless.

    When I take a look at those screenshots of the scores, it always helps narrate a story but there's a lot that goes missed.

    In your first screenshot you have 34 shots with a total of 4 power plays. You're averaging just about 11 shots per period. I am under the assumption you took most of your shots during those power plays because you had the advantage. My best guess is you were in control all game, but the opponent is great at defense, especially under power plays. The stat sheet for that one was in your favor which thankfully led to a win.

    Thanks for taking time out to crop together the clips to help highlight your concerns on AI.

    There are so many incorrect assumptions in this post.

    First of all, you are right in that an end of game stat sheet doesn't always give you much detail about the ebb and flow of the game, but it does give you an idea of what happened as a whole. If I see a team with 34 shots, 10+ minutes of possession, 8 min of powerplays and 4 goals, it tells me that team dominated it and is finding goals through puck possession. Adversly, if I see a team with almost 10 minutes of TOA, 3 goals on 5 shots, I see a team that looks for the exploits. Or if I see a team with 40 shots, 2 minutes of TOA and 2 goals, that usually points to a team that skates in and just takes any shot.

    More to the point, if a team has 34 shots on net (remember, they have to hit the net for it to register as a shot) that would lead me to believe that the other team is extremely POOR at defense as they are allowing WAY too many shots. Especially considering the amount of time they had puck possession.

    One of Ben's favorite go to's when talking about the shot ratio in this game is that because we are playing with 4 minute periods so the shots are relative. Especially in a high level game where there are two top tier teams. So you'll see less than 10 shots per side, which if you would stretch out to a full 20 minute game would be about 30-35 shots. Funny... But if the shots are relative to the amount of time per period, wouldn't it be the same with the amount of goals scored?

    High level games often end with 3+ goals per side on average on about 10 shots. So if the shots are to be relative, then that would be the same with the goals too. That means that on an average of 3 goals on 10 shots, in a real game that would translate to 9 goals on 30 shots.

    Doesn't that seem wrong to you? That's an excessive amount of goals for a hockey game.

    The problem with this series has always been the same: there's too much emphasis on offense. On top of that, it's too easy to score. So many times games between good teams, that seem close on paper, are actual blowouts. Nearly every other shot goes in and now we have 10-3 scores at the end of the game. Imagine if that would've been full 20 minutes periods...

    It should be challenging to score. All the time. If top tier teams scores would be 1-0 with 10 shots or less per game, that would be the norm. But it's not. Not by a long shot....
    Post edited by VeNOM2099 on
  • rimms1985
    1 posts New member
    edited July 2020
    I've played over 800 games in NHL 20 on EASHL club. I can say without a doubt that ice tilt 100 percent is real and it does completley ruin the game more often than not. Once you get to a certain CR if every single player isn't constantly in position the game will punish you by not letting you touch the puck.... no matter what you do but if you by some chance get the puck, any shot will you take will be blocked/intercepted/saved or the puck will simply bounce off your stick on a soft simple pass to your teammate. The goalie will slow and therefore be out of position more and the puck will magically bounce like the opponent is playing with some different magic puck than you are. I know any players that put the games in completely agree. If anyone says otherwise, they simply haven't put the online games in to notice. Get games on your record and i promise you that you will experience this ice tilt/dda. I've been on both ends of the spectrum. From D1 elite champion to cant win a single game bc of this magic tilt. I may have even won my title with the aid of tilt who knows. But it definitely exists. We need a rehaul if the game engine. We should stop buying nhl until they do it or start inquiring support of another developer. Don't let us down EA. Spend the money and run with that engine another 6 years like you have with this one... -Hockey fanatic

    Edit - Merged this with the current ice tilt thread. -Aljo
  • TR4N23
    31 posts Member
    Man, well said guys. I've noticed on weekends and during the summer break the DDA has been ramped up harder than ever to appease to the casuals. Game is unplayable now and therefore I uninstalled the game last week. This game is seriously disgusting...
  • EA_Aljo
    3199 posts EA Community Manager
    jplavoie96 wrote: »

    This is intended so that defenders in control of the puck don't skate it into their own net and cause an own goal.
  • Well, it prevents the attacking team from scoring a goal. If the defender is stupid enough to run into is own net, the puck should go in. That’s hockey and this is bad programming by the way, you guys cut corners on this and on so many other things to.
  • jplavoie96 wrote: »
    Well, it prevents the attacking team from scoring a goal. If the defender is stupid enough to run into is own net, the puck should go in. That’s hockey and this is bad programming by the way, you guys cut corners on this and on so many other things to.
    Clearly you do not play defense with any regularity. Your statement assumes defensive positioning and skating gives us the amount of control required to not bump the net/goalie when playing in tight.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Eh, D knock the puck in the net half the time anyway. Particularly when they spear right through the tendy and somehow contact the puck. Dude is right, poor programming.
  • jplavoie96 wrote: »
    Well, it prevents the attacking team from scoring a goal. If the defender is stupid enough to run into is own net, the puck should go in. That’s hockey and this is bad programming by the way, you guys cut corners on this and on so many other things to.

    Clearly you don't know what you're talking about since I play this game every day. Here's a screenshot of the games I've played last weekend. As you can see, I allowed 1.5 goal per game on average and that doesn't include the 3 shutouts I got on Rivals. So, I don't spend much time in my own zone hence, bumping into my own net/goalie.
    t2ip8yd4njni.png

  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    jplavoie96 wrote: »

    This is intended so that defenders in control of the puck don't skate it into their own net and cause an own goal.

    This one worked fine. What's the difference...DDA

  • Z0mbieBabyJesus
    1523 posts Member
    edited September 2020
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    jplavoie96 wrote: »

    This is intended so that defenders in control of the puck don't skate it into their own net and cause an own goal.

    Couldn't you just make the defenders... I dunno.... NOT skate into their own net?
    Why is that such a hard thing? Is it the same reason the ai just skate into other skaters instead of trying to actually move around them?

    Feels like the ai just have absolutely zero idea of where they or other skaters are on the ice at any given time.

    Making the puck stop on the goal line is not even a bandaid because it causes the same stoppage when the opposing team shoots. Fix a problem by creating another problem, while ignoring the reason the problem even exists in the first place.
  • Z0mbieBabyJesus
    1523 posts Member
    edited September 2020
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    jplavoie96 wrote: »
    Well, it prevents the attacking team from scoring a goal. If the defender is stupid enough to run into is own net, the puck should go in. That’s hockey and this is bad programming by the way, you guys cut corners on this and on so many other things to.
    Clearly you do not play defense with any regularity. Your statement assumes defensive positioning and skating gives us the amount of control required to not bump the net/goalie when playing in tight.

    It does. It's poor programing of the ai that knocks it in when they rush their own goalie.
    If you're knocking the puck into your own net via your own controller input, that's on you.
  • EA_Aljo
    3199 posts EA Community Manager
    jplavoie96 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    jplavoie96 wrote: »

    This is intended so that defenders in control of the puck don't skate it into their own net and cause an own goal.

    This one worked fine. What's the difference...DDA

    There is no DDA so it's not that. The reason this happened is that he deflected the puck into the net. He didn't have control of it.
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