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Let's Talk: AIs in World of Chel

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funbutterg_4okv
posts New member
edited September 10
I know that I have looked for so long for an explanation as to why the AIs on the other team are sooooo much better than my teams AIs and everyone says its a 50/50 shot, but there is just NO WAY that is true. They know where 98% of my passes are going (even when they are not looking) and they are SO FAST AND NEVER LOSE ANY STAMINA (even though my AIs stamina always goes down). I just wish someone would explain to me why different skilled AIs are even a thing? Why not make the AIs all the same skill level? My team loses to people with 300 and 400 TCRs because their bots do ALL THE WORK (and me and my teammate have a 700+ TCR). It just does not make any sense to me at all.
Post edited by EA_Aljo on

Replies

  • EA is really doubling down on user engagement. Worst thing is for weaker players to quit out midway through the game and so this is one way EA keeps everyone playing. It's getting so obvious this year and its only going to get worse next year as the player pool continues to shrink.
  • I know that I have looked for so long for an explanation as to why the AIs on the other team are sooooo much better than my teams AIs and everyone says its a 50/50 shot, but there is just NO WAY that is true. They know where 98% of my passes are going (even when they are not looking) and they are SO FAST AND NEVER LOSE ANY STAMINA (even though my AIs stamina always goes down). I just wish someone would explain to me why different skilled AIs are even a thing? Why not make the AIs all the same skill level? My team loses to people with 300 and 400 TCRs because their bots do ALL THE WORK (and me and my teammate have a 700+ TCR). It just does not make any sense to me at all.

    Honestly 90% of my losses are to 400 CR players in WOC who have a CPU. In threes I was sitting at 1200 CR and in 6s I hover around 800. Some people on here will tell you the CPU is bad.. they are dumb but they are anything but bad. I believe the people saying they're bad are the people who use them the most.

    The CPU is extremely fast, can shoot better, intercept passes FAR better than any human, not allow you to register a hit on them and sooo much more. I will say that I think the cpu helps lower CR more but I think some people may not realize how annoying their CPU's are for their opponent too. You may see your cpu make bad reads, run into goalie onna breakaway, not go for the puck when they're closer to it than anyone.. and they chalk it up as their cpu sucks but that same cpu may have stopped 7 1 timer chances due to his intercepting ability. CPU's are by FAR the worst thing in this game. I want them to be smarter, sure. I REALLY want them to play the same as a human though. I shouldn't be unable to hit them when they set up for a 1T and then I get scored on because my guy just skated around him.. I shouldn't have to find ways to take him out of the play before attempting to score. Some CPU players will positionn themselves in the middle of the ice (they can stop 1T chances really well, a rebound will magnatize to them, and they can block a shot with their stick and in ONE step be in full speed toward your net) they are dumber than a box of rocks but in threes when they're 7' tall and have the speed of a sniper and the reach of an enforcer with defensive skills far surpassing a DD OR IN 6'S you have 3 of them running around the game becomes annoying, boring, and frustrating.. I'm not the very best player but I feel I can compete pretty well in any mode with anyone I shouldn't feel that a CPU is probably better than me despite them being SO dumb. Someone quits in this game and they are basically replaced by a 900 CR player to keep people playing.. the people on the other team DON'T want to keep playing if they have to face that!! They don't!! I get you're helping the other team but you're PUNISHING the team that was up! I'll never get it.. but we'll just keep wondering why sales keep dropping and we have a smaller player base..
  • TTZ_Dipsy
    401 posts Member
    edited September 10
    Buddy and I hovered around 1,000 CR and losing to the ~500 CR teams was the absolute worst; no matter what we did it felt like the game went full tilt against us.

    Oooooooohhhhh I said the secret worrdddd yayyyyyy!!!! Yes, tilt doesn't exist, but by pure coincidence, more than 50% of our 100ish losses were from teams that legit didn't earn the win.

    The team and apparently community as a whole only cares about/makes enough noise about 6v6 so we'll probably never see any meaningful changes to the ai. Heck, we still need major retuning of defensive abilities too so it could take a while
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    I know that I have looked for so long for an explanation as to why the AIs on the other team are sooooo much better than my teams AIs and everyone says its a 50/50 shot, but there is just NO WAY that is true. They know where 98% of my passes are going (even when they are not looking) and they are SO FAST AND NEVER LOSE ANY STAMINA (even though my AIs stamina always goes down). I just wish someone would explain to me why different skilled AIs are even a thing? Why not make the AIs all the same skill level? My team loses to people with 300 and 400 TCRs because their bots do ALL THE WORK (and me and my teammate have a 700+ TCR). It just does not make any sense to me at all.

    The AI players are either 2 way forwards or 2 way defenders. They are all the same skill level. The AI players can be difficult to play against for sure. You have to play a much more disciplined game against them. They're excellent at finding open lanes for shots/passes. These need to be cut off as much as possible or they'll take advantage of them.
  • We must be playing different games mate because I can literally skate straight at the cpu D men and they just back off.

    If they are set to be super aggressive, you just need to stop and go once you reach the blue and it'll give you plenty of time to boost past; they certainly aren't difficult to play against at all
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    We've decided to make this the weekly discussion. Feel free to provide constructive feedback on the AI players and strategies you use to play against them. Thanks!
  • [quote="TTZ_Dipsy;c-2154275"]We must be playing different games mate because I can literally skate straight at the cpu D men and they just back off.

    If they are set to be super aggressive, you just need to stop and go once you reach the blue and it'll give you plenty of time to boost past; they certainly aren't difficult to play against at all[/quote]

    Actually theyre so dumb that if you slow down just inside the blue line and coast, theyll back up leaving plenty of room for a snipe and theyll even screen the goalie for you. I can probably score 1 out of 3 times doing this because the goalie bites on the screen every time and lets you snipe short side. 2 out of 3 times youll hit the d with it but if you get it on net its in. There should never be sure fire ways to score. Never.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I know that I have looked for so long for an explanation as to why the AIs on the other team are sooooo much better than my teams AIs and everyone says its a 50/50 shot, but there is just NO WAY that is true. They know where 98% of my passes are going (even when they are not looking) and they are SO FAST AND NEVER LOSE ANY STAMINA (even though my AIs stamina always goes down). I just wish someone would explain to me why different skilled AIs are even a thing? Why not make the AIs all the same skill level? My team loses to people with 300 and 400 TCRs because their bots do ALL THE WORK (and me and my teammate have a 700+ TCR). It just does not make any sense to me at all.

    The AI players are either 2 way forwards or 2 way defenders. They are all the same skill level. The AI players can be difficult to play against for sure. You have to play a much more disciplined game against them. They're excellent at finding open lanes for shots/passes. These need to be cut off as much as possible or they'll take advantage of them.

    They certainly are not at the same level. I've also asked for an answer to this question for YEARS. Last year I was offering a $1000 reward if somebody would just tell me why EVERY SINGLE GAME in CHEL the opponents CPU(doesn't matter what position) is the best player on the ice by far. He wiggles perfectly when you try to check him, he picks off every pass in an 8' radius and immediately fires a pass all the way down the ice for a 2 on 1. He lifts my stick at the perfect time every time and 1/2 second later has fired a perfect pass down ice. He'll tie me up in front of the net so I can't move for 5 seconds. If I'm going to crush him into the boards. he ALWAYS gets a beautiful pass off through my legs just before I get to him. No matter what position he is, he's always in perfect position for everything. He scores damn near 50% of my opponents goals and is frequently the 1st star, usually as the D.

    My CPU does none of that. My opponents skate into his face, he skates backwards. Occasionally he'll get a tripping penalty, but usually just skates backwards. My opponents can pass through his legs at will, he rarely picks anything off. Usually if he makes a hit, it just opens us up for a breakaway. He always runs full speed to whoever has the puck on D. Doesn't matter if I'm covering, if me and a buddy are already double covering the guy, our CPU runs full speed over there and leaves the rest of the ice wide open. This also means he is constantly skating into our backs while we drop back on D. He's ALWAYS in the way. Changing the strategies does nothing. He NEVER ties anybody up, nor pins anybody to the boards. He frequently passes it directly to the opposing players(on his own, not because we called for it), and sometimes, inexplicably we'll be skating in front of him waiting for a pass, and he'll pass it directly sideways into the boards, then turn tail and run. His penalty shots are quite amusing, all he does is skate directly into the goalie, he doesn't shoot, deke, nothing. All he does is turn the puck over, get in our way, and be completely invisible when interacting with our opponents(never checks them, rarely intercepts passes, never ties them up or lifts their stick)

    This is EVERY SINGLE GAME. I've asked and asked and asked for years and nobody has ever given me an explanation. For years we've had to play against the opponents AND our 🎃🎃🎃🎃 cpu who plays like he's playing for the other team. It's enough to get you angry. If our opposing players CPU's played like ours, I don't think we'd ever lose a game. For us, every game is a struggle where we work so hard to cycle the puck and try to move people out of position for a scoring chance, just to watch our opponents skate down the ice, make a pass directly through our CPU legs while he calmly skates backwards and shoot it into the open net because our goalie is so far out of the crease he looks like he's headed for the locker room. I would love an answer. You can't say that they are the same level, that's blatantly false, and I want to know why we NEVER get the supposedly good ai. Not for one game. Ever. I want to know why this is even a thing, and has been for years, and why I've NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET AN ANSWER ON WHY THIS HAPPENS.
  • Poman33 wrote: »
    For years we've had to play against the opponents AND our **** cpu who plays like he's playing for the other team. It's enough to get you angry.

    This. A thousand times, this
  • TTZ_Dipsy wrote: »
    Poman33 wrote: »
    For years we've had to play against the opponents AND our **** cpu who plays like he's playing for the other team. It's enough to get you angry.

    This. A thousand times, this

    Wait 'till you see NHL 21. In the beta, the AI D-man would just move out of way of opposing puck carriers, letting them go by, every time, regardless of strategies.
  • Yeah I decided to go back up to right wing for NHL 21 - I hit my breaking point being the RD last year because of how dumb my ai partner was; seems lik3 it's only gonna be worse.

    They care more about offense so I might as well exploit the heck out of it -- Not necessarily "if you can't beat em, join em", but more like "Why stress yourself?; Join us up top and just have fun with it".
  • Is this not stickied on the top of the forum? Its been days, and I still haven't gotten a response from Mr. All AI's Are the same. Why can't I get a simple answer to a simple question? It's literally been years that I've been asking this question, and never gotten a response. The trend continues here in this stickied thread. We've lost every game tonight, and our opponents AI is a hall of famer like always, and ours is garbage. Why can't I get a simple answer? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do I need to hit some buttons to make my CPU play? Do I need to punch in some special code before the game? I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm missing something. I just want to know what it is. This silence from EA is garbage. We've played this game since 05 and I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. I WANT TO KNOW WHY OUR OPPONENTS AI IS ALWAYS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ICE AND OURS IS ALWAYS GARBAGE.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    Poman33 wrote: »
    Is this not stickied on the top of the forum? Its been days, and I still haven't gotten a response from Mr. All AI's Are the same. Why can't I get a simple answer to a simple question? It's literally been years that I've been asking this question, and never gotten a response. The trend continues here in this stickied thread. We've lost every game tonight, and our opponents AI is a hall of famer like always, and ours is garbage. Why can't I get a simple answer? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do I need to hit some buttons to make my CPU play? Do I need to punch in some special code before the game? I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm missing something. I just want to know what it is. This silence from EA is garbage. We've played this game since 05 and I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. I WANT TO KNOW WHY OUR OPPONENTS AI IS ALWAYS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ICE AND OURS IS ALWAYS GARBAGE.

    You didn't get a response because we're not here 24/7. Apologies for taking a couple days to get back to you. As far as your issue goes, I can assure you there's nothing built into the game that singles out your team and forces your AI players to not play well. If you want to get us some video of a full period so we can see what's happening, that would help understand what's going on.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Poman33 wrote: »
    Is this not stickied on the top of the forum? Its been days, and I still haven't gotten a response from Mr. All AI's Are the same. Why can't I get a simple answer to a simple question? It's literally been years that I've been asking this question, and never gotten a response. The trend continues here in this stickied thread. We've lost every game tonight, and our opponents AI is a hall of famer like always, and ours is garbage. Why can't I get a simple answer? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do I need to hit some buttons to make my CPU play? Do I need to punch in some special code before the game? I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm missing something. I just want to know what it is. This silence from EA is garbage. We've played this game since 05 and I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. I WANT TO KNOW WHY OUR OPPONENTS AI IS ALWAYS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ICE AND OURS IS ALWAYS GARBAGE.

    You didn't get a response because we're not here 24/7. Apologies for taking a couple days to get back to you. As far as your issue goes, I can assure you there's nothing built into the game that singles out your team and forces your AI players to not play well. If you want to get us some video of a full period so we can see what's happening, that would help understand what's going on.

    Is a full period of video even necessary at this point?
    Like are there not enough of the exact same descriptions already from not enough people already?

    Are there not enough video submissions by now? What has a single period of video that anyone has sent in as you ask ever accomplished?
    Why is that always the standard response when we need your help?
    Just dodge it and ask us for another video to run us around in a circle.

    Have you not played the game yourself?
    I ask because I assume you do.
    I also assume you probably play often & probably pretty great at that.
    So you don't need the video, you already know exactly what people are highlighting for you as a developer to elaborate on.

    How could you legitimately NOT know the details of something that YOU created or how it works?
    C'mon sir, let's just agree on this much for now.

    The frustrating part about this communication barrier is that it never helps us trust your team.
    It is a lose lose for both sides as we end up stagnating in this strange divide, one that won't allow us to do something special together.

    I know I speak for the majority of this community when I tell you that the most disappointing thing for us is not even this game or what we want improved upon. It's everything else.
  • EA_Aljo
    1636 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Poman33 wrote: »
    Is this not stickied on the top of the forum? Its been days, and I still haven't gotten a response from Mr. All AI's Are the same. Why can't I get a simple answer to a simple question? It's literally been years that I've been asking this question, and never gotten a response. The trend continues here in this stickied thread. We've lost every game tonight, and our opponents AI is a hall of famer like always, and ours is garbage. Why can't I get a simple answer? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do I need to hit some buttons to make my CPU play? Do I need to punch in some special code before the game? I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm missing something. I just want to know what it is. This silence from EA is garbage. We've played this game since 05 and I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. I WANT TO KNOW WHY OUR OPPONENTS AI IS ALWAYS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ICE AND OURS IS ALWAYS GARBAGE.

    You didn't get a response because we're not here 24/7. Apologies for taking a couple days to get back to you. As far as your issue goes, I can assure you there's nothing built into the game that singles out your team and forces your AI players to not play well. If you want to get us some video of a full period so we can see what's happening, that would help understand what's going on.

    Is a full period of video even necessary at this point?
    Like are there not enough of the exact same descriptions already from not enough people already?

    Are there not enough video submissions by now? What has a single period of video that anyone has sent in as you ask ever accomplished?
    Why is that always the standard response when we need your help?
    Just dodge it and ask us for another video to run us around in a circle.

    Have you not played the game yourself?
    I ask because I assume you do.
    I also assume you probably play often & probably pretty great at that.
    So you don't need the video, you already know exactly what people are highlighting for you as a developer to elaborate on.

    How could you legitimately NOT know the details of something that YOU created or how it works?
    C'mon sir, let's just agree on this much for now.

    The frustrating part about this communication barrier is that it never helps us trust your team.
    It is a lose lose for both sides as we end up stagnating in this strange divide, one that won't allow us to do something special together.

    I know I speak for the majority of this community when I tell you that the most disappointing thing for us is not even this game or what we want improved upon. It's everything else.

    I'm asking for video so we can see exactly what the issue is. It's entirely possible I play differently than the person describing their experience. There have been many issues resolved due to video submissions.
  • MikeyAU630 wrote: »
    TTZ_Dipsy wrote: »
    Poman33 wrote: »
    For years we've had to play against the opponents AND our **** cpu who plays like he's playing for the other team. It's enough to get you angry.

    This. A thousand times, this

    Wait 'till you see NHL 21. In the beta, the AI D-man would just move out of way of opposing puck carriers, letting them go by, every time, regardless of strategies.

    So do the humans it's this years new feature, pylon technology.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Poman33 wrote: »
    Is this not stickied on the top of the forum? Its been days, and I still haven't gotten a response from Mr. All AI's Are the same. Why can't I get a simple answer to a simple question? It's literally been years that I've been asking this question, and never gotten a response. The trend continues here in this stickied thread. We've lost every game tonight, and our opponents AI is a hall of famer like always, and ours is garbage. Why can't I get a simple answer? Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do I need to hit some buttons to make my CPU play? Do I need to punch in some special code before the game? I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm missing something. I just want to know what it is. This silence from EA is garbage. We've played this game since 05 and I can't get a simple answer to a simple question. I WANT TO KNOW WHY OUR OPPONENTS AI IS ALWAYS THE BEST PLAYER ON THE ICE AND OURS IS ALWAYS GARBAGE.

    You didn't get a response because we're not here 24/7. Apologies for taking a couple days to get back to you. As far as your issue goes, I can assure you there's nothing built into the game that singles out your team and forces your AI players to not play well. If you want to get us some video of a full period so we can see what's happening, that would help understand what's going on.

    Is a full period of video even necessary at this point?
    Like are there not enough of the exact same descriptions already from not enough people already?

    Are there not enough video submissions by now? What has a single period of video that anyone has sent in as you ask ever accomplished?
    Why is that always the standard response when we need your help?
    Just dodge it and ask us for another video to run us around in a circle.

    Have you not played the game yourself?
    I ask because I assume you do.
    I also assume you probably play often & probably pretty great at that.
    So you don't need the video, you already know exactly what people are highlighting for you as a developer to elaborate on.

    How could you legitimately NOT know the details of something that YOU created or how it works?
    C'mon sir, let's just agree on this much for now.

    The frustrating part about this communication barrier is that it never helps us trust your team.
    It is a lose lose for both sides as we end up stagnating in this strange divide, one that won't allow us to do something special together.

    I know I speak for the majority of this community when I tell you that the most disappointing thing for us is not even this game or what we want improved upon. It's everything else.

    I'm asking for video so we can see exactly what the issue is. It's entirely possible I play differently than the person describing their experience. There have been many issues resolved due to video submissions.

    He broke it down exceptionally accurate and a video won't further expand upon what he described. I will take video to share with you, even though that's somewhat counterintuitive.
  • TTZ_Dipsy
    401 posts Member
    edited September 14
    For the record, my main problem is with dumb ai teammates - I don't exactly agree with anyone saying the other team's ai is overpowered in the least (nor do I believe just plunking two-ways in is the right way to go because it's turned into a plunker of a build over the years).

    I recommend video evidence because we might be able to pick up on exact patterns that cause the ai to act the way they do. Maybe certain clusters or movements force them to outright spite their coding.

    Also, Aljo is a CM; while he can speak internally to the team, he is not directly responsible for how the game actually plays -- you'll want to point those related questions to NHL_Dev (sp?)
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »

    You didn't get a response because we're not here 24/7. Apologies for taking a couple days to get back to you. As far as your issue goes, I can assure you there's nothing built into the game that singles out your team and forces your AI players to not play well. If you want to get us some video of a full period so we can see what's happening, that would help understand what's going on.

    It's not just the couple days for a response, it's the YEARS we have been trying to get an answer on why this happens. There has to be something. The game is nearly unplayable for us. All our opponents do is cherry pick while their CPU player plays incredible defense then scurries down the ice to be in perfect position for them to pass to him for a score while our CPU skates backwards with a smile. It's obviously not just us, there's posters in this thread and others throughout the years with the same issue. It has never been resolved. It's been really bad the last several times we attempted to play. I don't even know how to record a period of play. Advice on how to do that?

  • He broke it down exceptionally accurate and a video won't further expand upon what he described. I will take video to share with you, even though that's somewhat counterintuitive.

    I agree about the a video not being overly helpful, but I'll try. What would you say is the easiest way to record gameplay? I've never tried.
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