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Everything Wrong: EA SPORTS NHL (Video)

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  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    Agreed... Somewhat.

    In real life, that situation would've caused stick on stick collision, resulting in partial disruption of puck possession. In that clip the stick gets shoved away by a force field around the blade/puck and does absolutely nothing.

    It happens in the other direction too with stick melting into the ice a few inches away from the carrier's blade/puck.

    It's clearly a blending issue between the hitbox/hurtbox of the 3D models trying to interact together. I just don't agree with the fact that the defending player often ends up on the losing end of those interactions more often than not. It's like having the puck grants the attacker a +50 immunity/forcefield bonus. LOL!

    What's worse is that he had the puck on the back of the blade when the DSS makes contact, so it should've become dislodged.

    I'm just... I'm just gonna stop right there, though. I'm getting mad and I don't even have the game installed anymore. *sigh*
  • Davanial
    267 posts Member
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Im saying there needs to be a balance between skill and fun. You should be rewarded for mastering a game mechanic, of course. If you’re good at poke checking you should be able to knock it loose almost every time. Great. Toning down tripping penalties doesn’t punish these players or reward players who don’t know what they’re doing, as long as it is easier to knock a player off the puck with a hit in open ice than to stick check (which it is, in real life). Players won’t spam poke check if you give them a better tool to knock the puck loose. Plus, spamming is already pretty neutral since it slows you down significantly and your penalty percentage goes up the more you spam or so at least they say

    Most players know how to play defense, they choose not to since it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn basic things like poke checking and stick lifting. That’s an issue. If it’s really as simple as “make defense easier to play” (which it’s not it’s much more complex than that) I don’t see why anyone would be against it with the current status of the game.. it’s all offense driven

    Case in point:



    The player actually used DSS correctly. But instead of getting rewarded for his effort, knowledge and skill, he gets shafted and the offense gets rewarded, as per the norm. There is NO input option on a controller that makes your stick jump like that. You can only move your stick in an arc around you, not up or down.

    Why does the stick move around the puck like that? It could be a bug... But if it is, it's a bug that happens very regularly. It should've been squashed long ago.

    As @GramerProfesur mentions, using the DSS correctly is already difficult enough to learn to use properly, yet it doesn't always reward you as it should when you use it correctly. If I use my stick as a containment tool, but the opposing player skates through it, I get a tripping call.

    1st of all, I didn't trip him, he walked through my stick. 2nd, sticks aren't immovable objects replete with the mass of a stellar object. If a player pushes against my stick, as I'm holding it with ONE hand, the stick will be pushed away. No tripping.

    Again, there needs to be a proper balancing between both SIM and FUN. Having a player go flying like a Creeper just blew up under him, just because I had my stick on the ice using DSS, isn't either of those two.

    It looks like the player released DSS just then, and the game opts to put the stick into a neutral position immediately while it returns the player to neutral, so that the stick cannot incur contact while the player is in a position no longer supported by the controls.

    Mind you, that is my attempt to look at it... let's say, objectively.

    I also see this happen frequently and it drives me nuts. Argh puck bubble!!
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    Well from my point of view all that I see is desperate poke/dss motions were I sometimes wonder if it is a hockey player or a octopus in need on the other side of the rink.

    And if these players get as little as possible help to be even more desperate, I dont know, it would be a lost for hockey.
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    But if you want to tune down tripping calls I cant really see it in any other words then you think people should be able to use it even more unwise.

    I would say, first fix is to tune down the advantage you get from twirling and avoid hits in offensive zone. When that is done, poke and dss is pretty accurate like it is now.

    Why people takes alot of tripping calls is mainly becuse they dont want to learn how to play defense. And thats not the games fault, although it is, in one way, becuse its never really been importen to know how to play good D.

    Im saying there needs to be a balance between skill and fun. You should be rewarded for mastering a game mechanic, of course. If you’re good at poke checking you should be able to knock it loose almost every time. Great. Toning down tripping penalties doesn’t punish these players or reward players who don’t know what they’re doing, as long as it is easier to knock a player off the puck with a hit in open ice than to stick check (which it is, in real life). Players won’t spam poke check if you give them a better tool to knock the puck loose. Plus, spamming is already pretty neutral since it slows you down significantly and your penalty percentage goes up the more you spam or so at least they say

    Most players know how to play defense, they choose not to since it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn basic things like poke checking and stick lifting. That’s an issue. If it’s really as simple as “make defense easier to play” (which it’s not it’s much more complex than that) I don’t see why anyone would be against it with the current status of the game.. it’s all offense driven

    I dont see the fun if a guy can poke loose the puck from me if he dosent deserve it, if its more easy for me then it should be more easy for others too? Or how can it only affect one side... I dont really see your point?

    Most players dont know how to play defense, they know how to basically stand still right infront of the goalie and dont move the controller abit or if that dosent work they try to put all the gas into it and just force there own zone hoping to get both the player and the puck. What kinda defense is that? All or nothing.... And if it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn to play defense, then it should really be rewarded. Or are people only willing to put that extra for the offensive part in the game. Did anyone mention balance?

    If the game speed went down and my AI didnt get burned by this spin-twist - corner - glide - deke players then I wouldnt see no problem. I dont see that tune down tripping is the solution here, the key is somewhere else.
    Post edited by Sega82mega on
  • GramerProfesur
    549 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    But if you want to tune down tripping calls I cant really see it in any other words then you think people should be able to use it even more unwise.

    I would say, first fix is to tune down the advantage you get from twirling and avoid hits in offensive zone. When that is done, poke and dss is pretty accurate like it is now.

    Why people takes alot of tripping calls is mainly becuse they dont want to learn how to play defense. And thats not the games fault, although it is, in one way, becuse its never really been importen to know how to play good D.

    Im saying there needs to be a balance between skill and fun. You should be rewarded for mastering a game mechanic, of course. If you’re good at poke checking you should be able to knock it loose almost every time. Great. Toning down tripping penalties doesn’t punish these players or reward players who don’t know what they’re doing, as long as it is easier to knock a player off the puck with a hit in open ice than to stick check (which it is, in real life). Players won’t spam poke check if you give them a better tool to knock the puck loose. Plus, spamming is already pretty neutral since it slows you down significantly and your penalty percentage goes up the more you spam or so at least they say

    Most players know how to play defense, they choose not to since it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn basic things like poke checking and stick lifting. That’s an issue. If it’s really as simple as “make defense easier to play” (which it’s not it’s much more complex than that) I don’t see why anyone would be against it with the current status of the game.. it’s all offense driven

    I dont see the fun if a guy can poke loose the puck from me if he dosent deserve it, if its more easy for me then it should be more easy for others too? Or how can it only affect one side... I dont really see your point?

    Most players dont know how to play defense, they know how to basically stand still right infront of the goalie and dont move the controller abit or if that dosent work they try to put all the gas into it and just force there own zone hoping to get both the player and the puck. What kinda defense is that? All or nothing.... And if it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn to play defense, then it should really be rewarded. Or are people only willing to put that extra for the offensive part in the game. Did anyone mention balance?

    If the game speed went down and my AI didnt get burned by this spin-twist - corner - glide - deke players then I wouldnt see no problem. I dont see that tune down tripping is the solution here, the key is somewhere else.

    The problem is that literally anyone can pick up the game and be dominant on offense while defense, specifically the DSS, has a significantly higher learning curve just to stay competitive. Its not a big learning curve to “master” the game or mechanics.. it’s a steep learning curve just to use RB. Stick is most important part of a dman and if they can’t use it, they can’t properly play defense even when in position. Most people know defensive positioning, but like I said, they don’t use it because why bother if the mechanics are broken. I don’t know what you don’t understand about that.

    It’s not about if they “deserve” to have the puck or not. If you’re in the right position, distance from the puck, and poke in that direction I really don’t see why being a centimeter off should warrant a tripping penalty. Don’t let me get the puck.. fine, but the margin for error is way too slim

    Just got done playing a game today where this happened. Trailing puck carried but perfectly placed poke (outside of leg) that went through the leg and tripped him up. You could argue I was probably 6 inches too far behind him. That’s the difference between being a penalty or not. How anyone can look at this and say this is OK is beyond me

    Post edited by GramerProfesur on
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    But if you want to tune down tripping calls I cant really see it in any other words then you think people should be able to use it even more unwise.

    I would say, first fix is to tune down the advantage you get from twirling and avoid hits in offensive zone. When that is done, poke and dss is pretty accurate like it is now.

    Why people takes alot of tripping calls is mainly becuse they dont want to learn how to play defense. And thats not the games fault, although it is, in one way, becuse its never really been importen to know how to play good D.

    No, people take a lot of tripping calls because they know how to play defense but EA doesn't reward real defense in this game. This is the games fault.
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    It is a blunt statement to say people know how to play defense. I would love to see that with my own eyes to bealive that, sorry but untill then im not going to change my mind. Its a circus out there.

    I hardly take any penalties, what does that mean then? And im doing all I can to play D.

    But Yes please, it could be alot more easy to play D. Especially against thoose that dont like to play hockey.
    Post edited by Sega82mega on
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    But if you want to tune down tripping calls I cant really see it in any other words then you think people should be able to use it even more unwise.

    I would say, first fix is to tune down the advantage you get from twirling and avoid hits in offensive zone. When that is done, poke and dss is pretty accurate like it is now.

    Why people takes alot of tripping calls is mainly becuse they dont want to learn how to play defense. And thats not the games fault, although it is, in one way, becuse its never really been importen to know how to play good D.

    Im saying there needs to be a balance between skill and fun. You should be rewarded for mastering a game mechanic, of course. If you’re good at poke checking you should be able to knock it loose almost every time. Great. Toning down tripping penalties doesn’t punish these players or reward players who don’t know what they’re doing, as long as it is easier to knock a player off the puck with a hit in open ice than to stick check (which it is, in real life). Players won’t spam poke check if you give them a better tool to knock the puck loose. Plus, spamming is already pretty neutral since it slows you down significantly and your penalty percentage goes up the more you spam or so at least they say

    Most players know how to play defense, they choose not to since it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn basic things like poke checking and stick lifting. That’s an issue. If it’s really as simple as “make defense easier to play” (which it’s not it’s much more complex than that) I don’t see why anyone would be against it with the current status of the game.. it’s all offense driven

    I dont see the fun if a guy can poke loose the puck from me if he dosent deserve it, if its more easy for me then it should be more easy for others too? Or how can it only affect one side... I dont really see your point?

    Most players dont know how to play defense, they know how to basically stand still right infront of the goalie and dont move the controller abit or if that dosent work they try to put all the gas into it and just force there own zone hoping to get both the player and the puck. What kinda defense is that? All or nothing.... And if it takes a ridiculous amount of time, skill, and effort to learn to play defense, then it should really be rewarded. Or are people only willing to put that extra for the offensive part in the game. Did anyone mention balance?

    If the game speed went down and my AI didnt get burned by this spin-twist - corner - glide - deke players then I wouldnt see no problem. I dont see that tune down tripping is the solution here, the key is somewhere else.

    The problem is that literally anyone can pick up the game and be dominant on offense while defense, specifically the DSS, has a significantly higher learning curve just to stay competitive. Its not a big learning curve to “master” the game or mechanics.. it’s a steep learning curve just to use RB. Stick is most important part of a dman and if they can’t use it, they can’t properly play defense even when in position. Most people know defensive positioning, but like I said, they don’t use it because why bother if the mechanics are broken. I don’t know what you don’t understand about that.

    It’s not about if they “deserve” to have the puck or not. If you’re in the right position, distance from the puck, and poke in that direction I really don’t see why being a centimeter off should warrant a tripping penalty. Don’t let me get the puck.. fine, but the margin for error is way too slim

    Just got done playing a game today where this happened. Trailing puck carried but perfectly placed poke (outside of leg) that went through the leg and tripped him up. You could argue I was probably 6 inches too far behind him. That’s the difference between being a penalty or not. How anyone can look at this and say this is OK is beyond me


    Why people is "good" with offense is a combination with offensive is privileged and that people dont know how to act in the defensiv zone.

    Thats not a penalty, but unfortunately there's some problems with the physics sometimes and I guess you toucht he's knee with your right arm. I have also some horrible penalties behind me, but Im not sure to blame it all on the poke/dss.

    Remember BETA19, it was a breath of fresh air.. And why's that? People had to think before they did a move, it made it fun, to actually be out there and you knew you had some time with the puck insteed of loosing it to a way to forgiving poke/dss. And becuse of that people was scared to loose the puck in the offensive zone cause they didnt knew how to get it back.. And a result of that was that people actually took shots insteed of circles like a clown. A win-win. Untill it was to much, "its to easy to tripp a player".. wailing out loud. And the dream beacome a nightmare.

    Poke/dss is not totaly broken, but what I would like is to play more position with body and dss and that it had more impact on my defensive play.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    100% brother.

    Even if poke missed and DIDNT trip the guy that’d be a hell of a lot better.

    The only time it should be a trip is if you’re right behind and purposely poke it at his legs.

    It’s easier to “master” how to trip than how to poke in this game. in combination with the inflated acceleration of players - these are my two least favourite aspects of this game

  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    Another own theory why you can fool yourself in to bealive that everyone knows how to play defense is that, I dont know if it is the same for you, but for me it is, almost everyone try the same play, and wouldnt it strange if you at least dont figured out one little plan on how to stop that... Thats why.. I guess its the way I play or something but I use to get alot of comments after the games from people that tellin me that my way of playing is obnoxious. (I really dont understand why, never bother to ask), but I think, as soon as 'they' play against someone they dont recognize by the way to play, they get stuck and have no idea what to do. Probebly a big reason (Excuse) why some end up skating straight towards the board with the head first. Not so good D in my opinion and thats also why I have hard to bealive everyone knows how to play defense. Cause that aint true.
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    "I really like this video when it comes to poke checking. I think the amount of tripping penalties needs to be tuned down, though, since most people don’t use the DSS. Many just point in one direction and RB"

    end quote: game prof.

    Why tune down that? So people running around with no clue were to be with stick and body will be encouraged to do so even more?

    That’s not at all what I’m saying. There is maybe like 5-10% of people who know how to use the DSS well. Thats not the fault of players, it’s difficult to use and it’s a steep learning curve. You have to angle players off rather than just try and poke the puck, which is only one aspect of real life or NHL stick checking. Trying to do a traditional poke check with the DSS (RB plus clicking the RS) often leads to your stick going through the puck/the other players stick and into their skates. Not to mention if you pick a player with higher stick checking the stick moves faster side to side, which makes it more difficult to use. Either tone down the penalties or make the effectiveness go down, or else the defensive side of the game won’t be enjoyable for the majority of players. If so many few people know how to use a basic game mechanic the issue is with the game not the player.

    Even people who are in that 5-10% like myself still think that, besides the fact it’s too difficult for the average player to use, sticks hitting shin pads shouldn’t cause tripping so easily. It doesn’t happen in real life. Tripping is 99% sticks in between legs and under skates. The stick isn’t an immovable object where you skate into it with your shin and trip over. That stick is going to “fling back” and you’ll skate right through it.

    100% brother.

    Even if poke missed and DIDNT trip the guy that’d be a hell of a lot better.

    The only time it should be a trip is if you’re right behind and purposely poke it at his legs.

    It’s easier to “master” how to trip than how to poke in this game. in combination with the inflated acceleration of players - these are my two least favourite aspects of this game

    For me - only when my opponent almost turn himself inside out - with help of L2 and try to dangel himself to the moon and back - it gets a little hard for me to know how to poke him. Other than that, no problemo.
  • @Sega82mega i know how to use R1 now but it took a while to figure it out
  • For guys using L2 - just slowing down around them until their momentum is gone and waiting for them to turn Into you and use incidental contact to create a turn over is unfortunately to top those guys
  • Sega82mega
    2653 posts Member
    edited June 2020
    Thats exactly what you have to do, shadow them untill there speed is set to zero and they start to glide and desperat try to find that crucial pass.
    It takes time and alot of patience.

    Why they can keep doing this so long time is becuse they got so high speed when they enter the zone and start to circel.

    But if you wait them out by keeping the press on them without follow through a hit all the way, just small bumps, you can beat them, and if they loose the puck after holding on to such 'nice hockey' they usally dont know how to start over and go in to defense.

    *good feeling when you manage to push them out of your own zone so they know they will have to start all over..
  • Appreciate the positive feedback everyone. Hopefully we’ll see some of these in a trailer released at EA Play. Rumor has it they’re going to announce something today

    @EADev
  • I believe that EA looked at all the videos in detail and before the release of NHL21 and especially before the release of NHL22, it is necessary to animate all videos and remind EA. Amen
  • Oslik1000 wrote: »
    I believe that EA looked at all the videos in detail and before the release of NHL21 and especially before the release of NHL22, it is necessary to animate all videos and remind EA. Amen

    is it really that hard to fix 20 years old bugs in EA hockey ????? Is it really difficult to teach at least the tsar's referees to watch the puck in all circumstances ???? And is it really hard to reprogram the AI ​​to always be on the puck when the puck is the most important part of hockey ????

  • Socair
    2638 posts Game Changer
    Old thread closed. Please don’t necropost.
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