EA Forums - Banner

Stop lying to yourselves, cross crease is trash

Replies

  • Seems like the biggest difference in people’s like and dislike of pass interceptions is the modes they play. 1v1 modes seem to hate it, 6v6 modes seem to range from like to dislike. The AI’s deficiencies in covering players seems to be the bigger factor imo. If you’re struggling to intercept passes in 6s, it’s more on you than the game imo, despite how harsh that may sound. Still have yet to have a glaring issue with pass interceptions in 6s and still have not applied any traits to my PMD to increase my DA.
  • thegarden94
    457 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    After I posted this that I found on reddit ,then to be told that's intentionally made to play this way , yeah I'm good posting clips about anything ,and people can put up clips on how to defend this and that but as long as this is intentionally put in the game yeah no thanks I'm good with tips ... Click to watch



  • KidShowtime1867
    1839 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Once again there's a solution given as to why this happened and people are unwilling or unable to understand.

    Just remember that when they give a technical explanation for clips such as this - They aren't saying it's right. They aren't saying this is how it will be forever. When they say 'working as intended' - it's an indication as to the limitations posed to development team to do it a better way.

    They're just saying why it happened.

    It used to be nice to have constructive discussion about these explanations, because sometimes it can give birth to new ideas that the development team may have not considered before.

  • Seems like the biggest difference in people’s like and dislike of pass interceptions is the modes they play. 1v1 modes seem to hate it, 6v6 modes seem to range from like to dislike. The AI’s deficiencies in covering players seems to be the bigger factor imo. If you’re struggling to intercept passes in 6s, it’s more on you than the game imo, despite how harsh that may sound. Still have yet to have a glaring issue with pass interceptions in 6s and still have not applied any traits to my PMD to increase my DA.

    just like 100x before I don't trust what we have been told about attributes.

    I don't think that DA has anything to do with intercepts. I had problems with my Grinder and moved to a playmaker and intercept rate seems much better with a lower DA.
  • Seems like the biggest difference in people’s like and dislike of pass interceptions is the modes they play. 1v1 modes seem to hate it, 6v6 modes seem to range from like to dislike. The AI’s deficiencies in covering players seems to be the bigger factor imo. If you’re struggling to intercept passes in 6s, it’s more on you than the game imo, despite how harsh that may sound. Still have yet to have a glaring issue with pass interceptions in 6s and still have not applied any traits to my PMD to increase my DA.

    just like 100x before I don't trust what we have been told about attributes.

    I don't think that DA has anything to do with intercepts. I had problems with my Grinder and moved to a playmaker and intercept rate seems much better with a lower DA.

    Forward intercept passes better than the D-men in TrashHL.
  • goalielivesmatte
    106 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Seems like the biggest difference in people’s like and dislike of pass interceptions is the modes they play. 1v1 modes seem to hate it, 6v6 modes seem to range from like to dislike. The AI’s deficiencies in covering players seems to be the bigger factor imo. If you’re struggling to intercept passes in 6s, it’s more on you than the game imo, despite how harsh that may sound. Still have yet to have a glaring issue with pass interceptions in 6s and still have not applied any traits to my PMD to increase my DA.

    just like 100x before I don't trust what we have been told about attributes.

    I don't think that DA has anything to do with intercepts. I had problems with my Grinder and moved to a playmaker and intercept rate seems much better with a lower DA.

    Forward intercept passes better than the D-men in TrashHL.

    Facts. Opposing forwards get all the puck puck up in front of the nets than the d-men as well. Its 100% coded like that in the game to make garbage forwards feel like they good. Most unbalanced game of the series, thats saying something too since they always catered to forwards and offence.
  • Here I am successfully stopping a cross crease in EASHL using DSS & R3 Poke:


    BCkbKRm.gif

    Stopping the cross crease is not impossible and requires good skill and timing.
  • Here I am successfully stopping a cross crease in EASHL using DSS & R3 Poke:


    BCkbKRm.gif

    Stopping the cross crease is not impossible and requires good skill and timing.

    How you move.. To circle, left/right in a small area, to follow your opponent's move, is really importen. Or else you will lose control and just glide into the board, away from play.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Here I am successfully stopping a cross crease in EASHL using DSS & R3 Poke:


    BCkbKRm.gif

    Stopping the cross crease is not impossible and requires good skill and timing.

    How you move.. To circle, left/right in a small area, to follow your opponent's move, is really importen. Or else you will lose control and just glide into the board, away from play.

    it looks so childish absolutely if the puck is rebound from your stick so ugly arcadish . it is still hockey simulator, right? :D:D:D
  • Here I am successfully stopping a cross crease in EASHL using DSS & R3 Poke:


    BCkbKRm.gif

    Stopping the cross crease is not impossible and requires good skill and timing.

    agreed.

    again hate to criticize your example because it is absolutely a good video. But that is a soft pass in the offensive zone where someone is forcing a puck right through the lane you are facing and your stick is already almost there. Even if you didn't poke I think you intercept 99% of the time. Terrible forced pass into teeth of defense and did it with a slow pass. Now if he's good he sets it up to freeze you but holds a charged up pass until he gets lower and slides it behind you towards the actual crease. It will be lightning fast and very difficult for you to disrupt in your position (which is fine because that should be the other defenders job who seems to be a **** AI poorly chasing the carrier leaving you defending both). If the target knows what he's doing he likely gets to that puck and has a good scoring chance.

    good example of how well DSS/poke work now in disrupting passes but also an example of bad forced play by the offense.

    others have said it but the current state of things have lead to many players doing this and its fairly easy to adopt and stop. But good players are definitely taking advantage of how hard it is to stop fast passes and how easy it is to one time them in traffic. I see so many goals where 3 defenders collapse on one guy on the back door and full power pass gets through and gets 1 timed into the net. Usually feel like it was bad defense as all they do is left stick charge into the area when well timed pokes, stick lifts likely defuse it and dont need 3 there to do it. but still amazed how often the shooter gets his one timer off and accurate.

    poke has helped but there is definitely an over powered nature to fasts passes and one timers through traffic.
  • 2042NoHardcore
    21 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    As someone who plays LD/RD only I find that most people who complain about this issue either are playing with AI or lack competent defensive players. Most of the times it's AI issues like the GIF posted above seems to be showing. The Defensive AI is improved, but not well enough in this regard specifically. If you do not tap and or hold L1 for a pass block when in the correct position it's almost impossible to stop the cross crease pass one timer play. You can also dive on the ice L1/R1 and attempt to block the passing lane that way as well. A mere poke check, body check or simply having your defenseman next to or ontop of the puck will do little to nothing. It takes proactive defense with near perfect timing to prevent those types of plays. And in 3/4ths of drop in games and even 1/2 of most lower ranked club games you will find that the D-Men either don't know how to prevent cross crease plays, or they play to out of position to even stand a chance at stopping them.
  • Sega82mega
    4211 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    But it dosent take more or less to block the passing lane if you forecheck, it's not just about cross creases. I think its good players that know how to play good positioning play gets rewarded.

    And it's good too for players that like to pass around the puck, you can make kinda risky plays without having to worry about a puck being intercept like a magnet in a way to forgiving area. In my opinion, contribute to a more clean hockey.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    I think we've got a few more games until we move from Platinum into Diamond. We've also scored 94 goals in our last 27 games. If you think you can poke check our cross creases, you're certainly welcome to hit us up in a private match and try. I would eat crow in public about the defense in this game if it could be done twice against us.

    Or we could bow down to an example of one of the slowest, most obvious pass attempts I've seen in an EASHL game.
    Post edited by TheMajjam on
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Here I am successfully stopping a cross crease in EASHL using DSS & R3 Poke:


    BCkbKRm.gif

    Stopping the cross crease is not impossible and requires good skill and timing.

    agreed.

    again hate to criticize your example because it is absolutely a good video. But that is a soft pass in the offensive zone where someone is forcing a puck right through the lane you are facing and your stick is already almost there. Even if you didn't poke I think you intercept 99% of the time. Terrible forced pass into teeth of defense and did it with a slow pass. Now if he's good he sets it up to freeze you but holds a charged up pass until he gets lower and slides it behind you towards the actual crease. It will be lightning fast and very difficult for you to disrupt in your position (which is fine because that should be the other defenders job who seems to be a 🎃🎃🎃🎃 AI poorly chasing the carrier leaving you defending both). If the target knows what he's doing he likely gets to that puck and has a good scoring chance.

    good example of how well DSS/poke work now in disrupting passes but also an example of bad forced play by the offense.

    others have said it but the current state of things have lead to many players doing this and its fairly easy to adopt and stop. But good players are definitely taking advantage of how hard it is to stop fast passes and how easy it is to one time them in traffic. I see so many goals where 3 defenders collapse on one guy on the back door and full power pass gets through and gets 1 timed into the net. Usually feel like it was bad defense as all they do is left stick charge into the area when well timed pokes, stick lifts likely defuse it and dont need 3 there to do it. but still amazed how often the shooter gets his one timer off and accurate.

    poke has helped but there is definitely an over powered nature to fasts passes and one timers through traffic.

    If that's a charged pass and the recipient is hustling and not just moseying through the slot, the defender gets beat with a cross-crease behind him. Throw in a charged pass with a head fake with the recipient cognizant to know his partner enough to hustle, then stop short, the D gets burned with the pass. There's even a second pass option right behind the guy rushing the slot.

    Can we stop pumping up what seems like good defense, but in reality it's just poor offense.

    A for positioning.
    F for trying to prove a point when playing against a mediocre team.

    Top. Teams. Do. Not. Play. This. Slow. Or. Bad.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Oh. One more thing.

    Using the skill/perk Precise Passing + a high pass rating, you no longer need to always manually saucer passes when there's danger of an intercept. Depending on your position, the pass recipient, and the position of opponents in your passing sight line, the perk will automatically saucer passes over sticks and through the bodies of your opponents.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • If we get honest for a moment, when YOU do these kind of cross-crease passes and then one-time it to the net (your your team-mate does it), do you feel a sense of achievement or pride? You know, when you do a behind your back off-hand pass from the boards, straight between the goalie and two d-men with their sticks there, and facing you, and all the way to the far post to your guy who taps it in?

    Do you think 'wow that was a great play', or do you maybe think 'I can't believe that worked' or 'that shouldn't happen'? If you're completely honest?

    And when it happens time after time, and the d-men seem to be flapping around ineffectively? Do you think 'just like in NHL' or maybe you feel a slight emabrrassment, hm?

    Like maybe d-men need to be super-humanly perfect all the time, and the offence just throws them passes at the goal so your guys can bury it? Git good is all you have?
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    If we get honest for a moment, when YOU do these kind of cross-crease passes and then one-time it to the net (your your team-mate does it), do you feel a sense of achievement or pride? You know, when you do a behind your back off-hand pass from the boards, straight between the goalie and two d-men with their sticks there, and facing you, and all the way to the far post to your guy who taps it in?

    Do you think 'wow that was a great play', or do you maybe think 'I can't believe that worked' or 'that shouldn't happen'? If you're completely honest?

    And when it happens time after time, and the d-men seem to be flapping around ineffectively? Do you think 'just like in NHL' or maybe you feel a slight emabrrassment, hm?

    Like maybe d-men need to be super-humanly perfect all the time, and the offence just throws them passes at the goal so your guys can bury it? Git good is all you have?

    I do not understand some of these guys here. This game is an offensive juggernaut that has eclipsed even NHL 20. They come in here and talk about wanting the defense less automated, while not having a single gripe about the offense.

    - Puck retention for the offense is at an all time high.

    - Poke checks magically return to the stick of the guy it was poked away from.

    - Mini-micro stick battles that happen, do so in such an instant manner that there's no defending against it. No input from the player other than skate.

    - Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.

    - Automatic puck transfers ARE STILL A THING, especially if you're a D-man trying to breakout with the puck and your stick just happens to go near a forward who is still skating the wrong way. I really hate this one. Of course, no input required other than skating.

    - Forwards will reach for loose pucks much more frequently now. No input required from the player other than skate.

    - Forwards intercept passes in the neutral zone much more effectively than defenders in their small ownership of ice.

    - There are 23 offensive dekes in this game. There's poke, DSS, stick-lift, desperation dive, and block shot for the D. You can pick up a penalty using any one of these defensive tools AND using them will always slow your player down considerably. No spam required.

    - Backhand passes are faster than forward passes with tape to tape accuracy of a Navy Seal sniper.

    - In the NHL where the defense can pivot around without losing speed, is the complete opposite in 21. Defensive pivots were nerfed allowing for even an AI D to be burned by some Sniper or Dangler the size of a pee-wee hockey player.

    - Forwards still continue to curl into the boards to avoid hits. It's their safe space and it's difficult to poke or stick lift in this position because their stick with the puck clips through the boards.

    - I can count the frustrating number of times where even if I get the puck first when it's behind my goalie's net, the game wants defenders to lose the puck back there for no reason other than a forward is chasing back there with you.

    - AI on the offense is overpowered again. They will beat you to lose pucks, push you off the puck, interfere-hold you in front of the net and on the boards, as well as deke like McDavid. They also take one-timers better than humans.

    - Goalies have been nerfed big time for big scores as the one-timer has been buffed to be THE meta.

    All this and you're telling me ONE buff to interceptions for D-men in perfect position to intercept passes is asking for too much? Passive defense and good positioning shouldn't be rewarded? Give me a break please. My team will score in every way this game lets us and even when we win I'm STILL here advocating for better defensive tools, better goalies, and a better balance between offense and defense. I've been doing it since 18 and I'll keep doing it until there's change. Sadly, there won't be any when the same people continue to defend absolute crap. I'm even surprised the "Don't change anything. Leave it the way it is now!" thread isn't sticked at the top of this forum.

    Here's to the sim we'll never, ever get.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    TheMajjam wrote: »

    - Defense will position themselves against a forward's body where it would be impossible to stick handle, let alone retain the puck, yet the stick will clip through that defender's body, the puck will be free for a half-second before the forward will pick it up and keep skating while the defender remains flat-footed by the very nature of the game putting him in that position. No input required from the player other than skate.

    Here's a video of typical doodoo that's happens 'as intended':


    As you can see, driving Bergeron towards the board is a bad move, as he can make his stick immaterial (Bauer Vapor maybe), and move it handily through my d-man's both legs, and then just pick up the puck which has followed his stick through the legs, and ONLY then is dislodged. EA, it's indagame, just like the NHL elite does it right?

    But not to worry, because my d-man Weber is there to take care of the waiting Panarin. So he holds his guy (not), and then tries to poke the puck away (not). Then Panarin, without being least bit inconvenienced by the happenings, throws a snap shot and scores. Never mind Weber's stick or the fact that Panarin's shot animation goes THROUGH Weber's legs. So yeah....

    I am just stunned when I see this happening on a daily basis (this game happened two hours ago). Ok, it was Squad Battle which everyone know is the game that is the worst mode stacked against you. But that this can actually happen at all is just mind-boggling.

    And then we're given explanations about why it happened, you did this and that wrong, and so the sticks and bodies have to be incorporeal in those situations... because why, you can't code it any better EA?

    In my eyes, this game will always remain a horrible joke on NHL, as long as this is allowed to go on. And it seems it will never be 'fixed'.



    Post edited by Sgt_Kelso on
  • KidShowtime1867
    1839 posts Member
    edited October 2020
    So much salt in this thread. And bragging about your EASHL team's accomplishments while degrading video examples is going to go such a long way in helping provide examples to fix these issues :)
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.