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When is the next tuner coming?

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goalielivesmatte
105 posts Member
edited November 2020
Still 0 tuners and games been out for 2 months. Do these devs seriously think the game is in a good balanced state rn?

All those positive work they did for human goalies after NHL 17 literally was tore down for this years version. Been playing since NHL 14 and hands down this is worst and unrewarding ever to play human goalie in 6s. Its nothing to do with "skill gap" either, every 6s league every goalies sv% took a huge dip, even leaderboards there isnt even a single goalie even with a 80sv% with big enough sample size.

Every positive things they did for human goalies after NHL 17 they went back on for this year. Release a tuner and turn up goalie reaction speed for animations and fully get rid of that stupid "screen effect" crap where G doesnt even go into animation just bc your d man is standing in front of you. You dont need screen effect when cross the grain hut snipe is WAY easier this year then it was even in NHL 17. Even if you read the play and get across in time on some one timers the puck will already be in back net when G even starts the animation. Might as well edit goalie player models where all goalies have no arms and legs, just cut off goalies arms and legs in game so its just a torso on skates in game. That's how unbalanced it is rn. Why even have 6v6 human goalie mode when you have to 100% rely on defense this year against good teams?

Revert back whatever changes you guys did to shot power or human goalies reaction speed when triggering save animations this year. So many real NHL teams sponsoring 6s esports this year and game the most unbalanced its ever been in the 7-8 years I been playing it.

Talking about 6v6 mode, idc what you guys do in 1v1 modes.
Post edited by Socair on

Replies

  • It’s coming in 2022 for $79.99
  • goalielivesmatte
    105 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Why dont these devs stream playing their own games like most AAA and even indie developers do and answer questions while playing on stream? I would love to see who ever is responsible for goalies play 6v6 against even an average and explaining some of the nonsensical goals that will go in bc Im certain they/he will let in 10+ every game.
  • A patch will be send down from heaven saving all us starved out hockey brothers..

    Im checking reddit every day in hope to get the news.

    I said it before and I can say it again, this game has a potential I haven’t felt in.. Never really. Just need to bring it out, not quite there yet.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    A patch will be send down from heaven saving all us starved out hockey brothers..

    Im checking reddit every day in hope to get the news.

    I said it before and I can say it again, this game has a potential I haven’t felt in.. Never really. Just need to bring it out, not quite there yet.

    NHL 15 didn't have 6s goalie mode. Then NHL 16 and 17 had pretty bad human goalie mode in 6s (still better than this year). Then they started making positive changes to human goalies in 18 and 19. Kinda went back for NHL 20 but it was still pretty good and way better than this year. But this year they literally went back to NHL 16 and took away all those positive changes they made in those 3-4 years.

    I seriously feel like they did it on purpose so they can repeat the cycle so NHL 22 feels like they are improving human goalie mode again and new game. I really really hope 2k gets back in the market for next gen, these guys need competition more than any company/devs out there.
  • The shooting accuracy to snipe corners is way too high and the ability as a human goalie to react to those shots, especially the blocker high scores is ridiculous. Give some love to the human goalies out their.

    Jtric
  • jtricoli wrote: »
    The shooting accuracy to snipe corners is way too high and the ability as a human goalie to react to those shots, especially the blocker high scores is ridiculous. Give some love to the human goalies out their.

    Jtric

    Challenge the shot a bit. Goalies can absolutely stop shots.
  • goalielivesmatte
    105 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    jtricoli wrote: »
    The shooting accuracy to snipe corners is way too high and the ability as a human goalie to react to those shots, especially the blocker high scores is ridiculous. Give some love to the human goalies out their.

    Jtric

    Challenge the shot a bit. Goalies can absolutely stop shots.

    Getting a 20 save shutout against a garbage team that shoot from anywhere on ice shouldn't be considered. Against good teams that take smart shots you 100% have to fully rely on your defense this year bc they turned down goalie save animation speeds and cut off their limbs. Like I said its not coincidence that in every league goalies sv% took a huge dip this year. Its nothing to do with challenging the shot or not., they literally stripped away all the positive changes they made to human goalies in 18 and 19.
    Post edited by Socair on
  • jtricoli wrote: »
    The shooting accuracy to snipe corners is way too high and the ability as a human goalie to react to those shots, especially the blocker high scores is ridiculous. Give some love to the human goalies out their.

    Jtric

    Challenge the shot a bit. Goalies can absolutely stop shots.

    While this is true, the amount you have to challenge the shot as a goalie forces you to stay in that position longer than you should, which opens you up for a cheesy rebound you would have normally saved or the blocker side snipe.

    This reality of the series is that it’s tilted for skaters, because that is what 99.9% of the player base is. I understand that and don’t want to take away people’s enjoyment of scoring that “big” goal, but allowing human goalies to have a slight advantage and more forgiveness in shots you are in proper position for should be rewarded, not punished. So many goals scored this year are either squeakers under my arm or cheesy 5 hole wonders that magically find a way under the ice my pad is sitting flush on.

    Bottom line for me is this is a purposeful design decision on the part of EA to encourage more scoring and make the games exciting (at least for skaters). Unfortunately, this design decision has resulted in people largely running away from having a human tender in net. They could just as easily have made the decision to make human tenders a “must have” item for any team, but the lack of scoring that would likely result in wouldn’t be enjoyed by the majority of the player base. I get that, it’s a business decision. It’s just business. And apparently, human goalies are bad for business.

    Jtric

  • Sega82mega
    2340 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    A noob eashl question, is an average human goalie better then AI goalie?

    Or on what level is it better to have a human goalie..
  • johnny2fingaz
    246 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    I think AI goalie is better than average human goalie
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    A noob eashl question, is an average human goalie better then AI goalie?

    Or on what level is it better to have a human goalie..

    For dropins the ai is better 90% of the time. I'm sure the numbers aren't as dire at club or league levels though.
  • jrago73 wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    A noob eashl question, is an average human goalie better then AI goalie?

    Or on what level is it better to have a human goalie..

    For dropins the ai is better 90% of the time. I'm sure the numbers aren't as dire at club or league levels though.

    Aha, too bad, would be more fun if human goalies were something good to have on your team. Would encourage all the human goalies we have out there, to be really good and indispensable.
  • Imo its almost impossible maintain a sv% 0f over .910(a bench mark in real life) for a human goalie, closer to .888 is very good
  • Does anyone know where to find the NHL 21 Tuner notes? I’m trying to definitively find the difference between 1.00 and 1.01.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Does anyone know where to find the NHL 21 Tuner notes? I’m trying to definitively find the difference between 1.00 and 1.01.

    The only difference in the tuner is that in 1.01, the tuning for the lacrosse goals is more forgiving for offline play. If you want to have the same tuning as online for offline, you can roll back to 1.00

    No other changes have gone into the tuners. All other changes were patch fixes and apply regardless of tuner selected.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited November 2020
    jtricoli wrote: »
    jtricoli wrote: »
    The shooting accuracy to snipe corners is way too high and the ability as a human goalie to react to those shots, especially the blocker high scores is ridiculous. Give some love to the human goalies out their.

    Jtric

    Challenge the shot a bit. Goalies can absolutely stop shots.

    While this is true, the amount you have to challenge the shot as a goalie forces you to stay in that position longer than you should, which opens you up for a cheesy rebound you would have normally saved or the blocker side snipe.

    This reality of the series is that it’s tilted for skaters, because that is what 99.9% of the player base is. I understand that and don’t want to take away people’s enjoyment of scoring that “big” goal, but allowing human goalies to have a slight advantage and more forgiveness in shots you are in proper position for should be rewarded, not punished. So many goals scored this year are either squeakers under my arm or cheesy 5 hole wonders that magically find a way under the ice my pad is sitting flush on.

    Bottom line for me is this is a purposeful design decision on the part of EA to encourage more scoring and make the games exciting (at least for skaters). Unfortunately, this design decision has resulted in people largely running away from having a human tender in net. They could just as easily have made the decision to make human tenders a “must have” item for any team, but the lack of scoring that would likely result in wouldn’t be enjoyed by the majority of the player base. I get that, it’s a business decision. It’s just business. And apparently, human goalies are bad for business.

    Jtric

    It is a very tough thing to balance with the varying skill levels at all positions across multiple levels of play. At the most competitive levels of play, all we hear about is how we are hitting shooters too hard and we stand up against that very strongly. We get videos of missed nets due to how the shot model works. A player needs to settle the puck or get a good pass when well positioned and in control for a one timer to be able to pick a corner with any consistency and it is on the defense to not give them that time and space.
    It is also then possible due to those models for a goalie to then react or recover due to that extra time to challenge a shot or get over to take the angle. It is all part of the balance.

    The less your defense is doing, the tougher it is for a goalie and that is true at all levels of hockey and represented and discussed a lot when it comes to goalies save percentages when they have played on different teams or looking at how different systems result in drastically different scoring chances to defend against when it comes to more advanced analytics.

    The human goalie save model is the same as last year but with a bit more screen effect. We didn't do anything to the amount of reach a goalie has or how long it takes for them to move a limb. We did however bump up the impact of screens on human goalies -- they are still lower than an ai goalies effect but more than last year as there wasn't much penalty to all collapse right on top of your goalie compared to challenging shots or making sure you get the block if you are going to play that way.

    Here are some threads recently I am linked to through twitter where you can see when I answer, I am certainly not siding with shooters and am more interested in overall balance for the game. I am usually sticking to the concept for how the shot model works which is it's own model relative to what the shooter is physically trying to do (how settled/in control they are or not, where their momentum was going, what their outgoing shot angle is, etc.) , where they are aiming and their attributes and not linked at all to context.

    Like with goalies, we are listening to everyone to see where our models aren't working as intended but at the end of the day, we want a balanced game and aren't siding with anyone.










    Some extended twitter threads about missed nets due to the accountability on the shooter side within the shot model. If you expand these threads, you will see various clips:
    Wrist Shots


    Slapshots


    One timers

    Post edited by NHLDev on
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    "I don't see any lack of control"

    Proceeds to show a player skating at full speed, winding up for a slapshot 3 feet in front of the goalie.... :D
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited November 2020

    We believe this is because of the stick going through the net. The logic wasn't distinguishing between actually reaching through the net to get to the puck and the end of your stick making contact with the net behind you in regards to not allowing collisions with the puck.

    I can never confirm a fix or when it will be available before it is officially in a state where you can get it and/or that the one fix will solve all cases but internally we have solved cases for this.
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