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What is EA doing to combat puck ragging?

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  • > @EA_Aljo said:
    > The suggestion is definitely appreciated. The problem with your suggestion is that there's no "make a play" clock in hockey. We would need something more realistic than this. I could see a delay of game penalty being called, but this also isn't exactly the easiest to determine. Playing the puck back in your zone isn't uncommon. The computer would need to detect that you're consciously trying to keep in your zone just to rag it. When there are defenders trying to cause a turnover, it can look like they're trying to evade this so it wouldn't exactly look like ragging to the computer. I'd love to see a good solution put in place. I know the dev team wants this as well, but it also needs to fall within the rules of hockey and be as realistic as possible.

    With all due respect to you and the programmers, it is not that hard to figure out how to stop it.

    Start by thinking about why puck ragging doesn't happen in real life. Why don't teams that are winning in the NHL just puck rag? They want to win pretty bad right?

    It is because there is risk involved - risk of losing an edge while figure skating, risk of mishandling the puck, risk of mishandling a pass, etc, that could turn into a goal or high danger chance against.

    The problem in this game is that the risk is nonexistent because every game mechanic is so forgiving for the player/team with the puck. You can make blind between the legs breakout passes tape to tape, you can spin in circles with the puck like Brian Boitano and still maintain possession, you can easily outskate forecheckers (barely any acceleration/agility penalty for carrying the puck apparently), you can run into the boards with the puck and suffer no consequences, etc.

    So I'll help you out a bit, here is the solution, all based on sliders already in the game - doesn't require tons of manpower or resources to implement, just slider changes:

    - Reduce Puck Carrier Agility
    - Reduce Puck Carrier Skating
    - Reduce Pass Reception Ease
    - Increase Pass Interceptions (by about a million)
    - Increase pickup type effect
    - Increase Board Effect Puck Carrier (right now it is on 0)
    - (MOST IMPORTANT) - INCREASE SKATING IMPACT (on puck control) - this would go a long way to stopping the absurd figure skating in this game all over the ice. Right now this is on 0 for competitive play. Please increase this.

    All the streamers say they want a skill gap , but they really just want to be free to master the various exploits in the game (self sauce, automatic face off goals, LT/L2 abuse, etc) more than other people and reap the benefits (and you listen to them).

    These slider changes would make the game less forgiving and increase the skill gap. You have to be skillful with how you skate with the puck or you might lose it, you have to be skillful with your orientation before passing, or you might make a bad pass, you have to be aware of where the boards are before running into them, etc. Plus this would lead to more loose pucks and sloppy play, which would make it more like hockey. More goals from forechecking and turnovers, less goals from self-saucing backwards skating no-look between the legs cross crease passes. Maybe every D1 game wouldn't end with a final score of 11-8 this way.

    It is not that hard to figure out.
  • I like alot of what you said.. Jagavekov.

    I hope this constantly bumping into the boards could lead to more consequences.

    So people thats aware of where the boards are would have a better chance to build momentum in their own favor.

    I also agree more loose pucks and sloppy play, would make it more like hockey.

    And probebly with an much less forced feeling regarding the gameplay.
    I bealive, because we can hold on to the puck such a long time, it often creates a bad flow to the game.

    Normally a hockey player dosent have that much time with the puck.

    And of course my never ending wish, would be to nerf the speed somehow, so things on ice could happen with more control.

    People throws poke checks like there lifes are hanging by a thread. Left/right up and down... It's just a soup of sticks and bodys all over the ice. No control in what we do or whatsoever.

  • quartermaine28
    49 posts Member
    edited February 22
    Just never mind man. This was obviously pointless. I paid money to buy a product from EA and you support it by asking me how to fix your problems.... no. I'll fix it for myself by not buying another pack this year and by not playing it next year.
    Post edited by quartermaine28 on
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited February 21
    Problem here is that 'the vulnerable code' we got here, has with humanity to do.

    It's not 'the code' thats puck ragging, it's us.

    As I asked before, if a really good HUT player decides to play keep away, how should we prevent him from that?

    Everyone that play this game, can puck rag, no question of that, but we all have diffrent skills for how long time we can do it without losing the puck.

    I do understand the problem with this, I know for sure I probebly could puck rag for a whole period, but I choose not to, cause it's not fun to win that way and I know how painful it is to be on the other side. So I rather play 'risky' and try to score but also get scored on, then to be a fool and destroy the fun in this video game.

    But there's alot of people that don't give a flying *bip* about the opponent's gaming experience, and are ready to do anything to get that win.

    I prefer good games, and if I win, I know I deserve it.

    But I think EA will figure this out... Cause it's getting harder and harder for this puck raggers.

    I soon hope that the table turns, and fair play will be the true way to go.

    ( people will always be capable to play keep away, more or less)

    But im all for a game were it would be much more difficult to keep the puck for any longer time.
    Post edited by Sega82mega on
  • SuperKMX_39
    120 posts Member
    edited February 22
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    SturmWolfe wrote: »
    @EA_Aljo

    Adding in a "make a play" clock would be beneficial so that it does allow for games to carry on?

    Every puck ragging instance is different. You have some who genuinely use it as a tactic to bait the forecheck for stretch passes. That is fine.

    However, you have others who cycle all around on their half of the ice up to the center line. They don't entend on making a play at all. That is where a "make a play" clock should be applied.

    This isn't like a real NHL game like the Flyers @ Bolts in 2011 making fun of Bolt's NZT and 1-3-1.

    At LEAST call for a faceoff when the clock runs out. Then you're not playing a chasing game for entire periods of play.

    There's a suggestion.

    The suggestion is definitely appreciated. The problem with your suggestion is that there's no "make a play" clock in hockey. We would need something more realistic than this. I could see a delay of game penalty being called, but this also isn't exactly the easiest to determine. Playing the puck back in your zone isn't uncommon. The computer would need to detect that you're consciously trying to keep in your zone just to rag it. When there are defenders trying to cause a turnover, it can look like they're trying to evade this so it wouldn't exactly look like ragging to the computer. I'd love to see a good solution put in place. I know the dev team wants this as well, but it also needs to fall within the rules of hockey and be as realistic as possible.

    I get what you're saying, but while there's a need to try to stay close to realism, there's also room to move away from it if it truly enhances the gameplay experience. After all, my top goalscorer is a guy who passed in 1937, and nobody is having conniptions about realism there.

    I understand that it isn't a simple fix, but making the puck behave less like it is glued to the puck carrier and more like it's being controlled by him would be a starting point. If the puck can bounce away or slip under the stick, people would be less liable to ping it all around their own defensive zone.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    SturmWolfe wrote: »
    @EA_Aljo

    Adding in a "make a play" clock would be beneficial so that it does allow for games to carry on?

    Every puck ragging instance is different. You have some who genuinely use it as a tactic to bait the forecheck for stretch passes. That is fine.

    However, you have others who cycle all around on their half of the ice up to the center line. They don't entend on making a play at all. That is where a "make a play" clock should be applied.

    This isn't like a real NHL game like the Flyers @ Bolts in 2011 making fun of Bolt's NZT and 1-3-1.

    At LEAST call for a faceoff when the clock runs out. Then you're not playing a chasing game for entire periods of play.

    There's a suggestion.

    The suggestion is definitely appreciated. The problem with your suggestion is that there's no "make a play" clock in hockey. We would need something more realistic than this. I could see a delay of game penalty being called, but this also isn't exactly the easiest to determine. Playing the puck back in your zone isn't uncommon. The computer would need to detect that you're consciously trying to keep in your zone just to rag it. When there are defenders trying to cause a turnover, it can look like they're trying to evade this so it wouldn't exactly look like ragging to the computer. I'd love to see a good solution put in place. I know the dev team wants this as well, but it also needs to fall within the rules of hockey and be as realistic as possible.

    I get what you're saying, but while there's a need to try to stay close to realism, there's also room to move away from it if it truly enhances the gameplay experience. After all, my top goalscorer is a guy who passed in 1937, and nobody is having conniptions about realism there.

    I understand that it isn't a simple fix, but making the puck behave less like it is glued to the puck carrier and more like it's being controlled by him would be a starting point. If the puck can bounce away or slip under the stick, people would be less liable to ping it all around their own defensive zone.

    checkmate
  • I second on the changes to the sliders described above. I wasn't aware of them all, but changing them to make it harder to figure skate with the puck would be a no-brainer if EA really want the (in)famous skill gap.

    That being said, it is obvious that changes like this would not be beneficial to the top players that have made a career out of exploiting flaws, bad mechanics or whatever you want to call it, in the software. I have a hard time imagine that EA will implement any changes that would benefit the broad player base rather than the streaming game promoters.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    j0rtsu67 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    SturmWolfe wrote: »
    @EA_Aljo

    Adding in a "make a play" clock would be beneficial so that it does allow for games to carry on?

    Every puck ragging instance is different. You have some who genuinely use it as a tactic to bait the forecheck for stretch passes. That is fine.

    However, you have others who cycle all around on their half of the ice up to the center line. They don't entend on making a play at all. That is where a "make a play" clock should be applied.

    This isn't like a real NHL game like the Flyers @ Bolts in 2011 making fun of Bolt's NZT and 1-3-1.

    At LEAST call for a faceoff when the clock runs out. Then you're not playing a chasing game for entire periods of play.

    There's a suggestion.

    The suggestion is definitely appreciated. The problem with your suggestion is that there's no "make a play" clock in hockey. We would need something more realistic than this. I could see a delay of game penalty being called, but this also isn't exactly the easiest to determine. Playing the puck back in your zone isn't uncommon. The computer would need to detect that you're consciously trying to keep in your zone just to rag it. When there are defenders trying to cause a turnover, it can look like they're trying to evade this so it wouldn't exactly look like ragging to the computer. I'd love to see a good solution put in place. I know the dev team wants this as well, but it also needs to fall within the rules of hockey and be as realistic as possible.
    Within the rules, is it allowed to play without helmet? Just asking... >:)

    HUT is a fantasy mode. NHL rules are in play, but it's technically not the NHL. For example, you won't see players with no helmet in Online Versus since those use NHL rosters in NHL arenas.

    Not to mention players were still allowed to not wear a helmet if they were grandfathered before the rule change.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    edited March 4
    Blow a tire.

    Something like that.

    Would be the most realistic solution against thoose that try to sit back with the puck with the purpose of just delay the game.

    I would like to feel that the players really stand on skates. That balance would be a key thing. But for that to happen you have to blow a tire now and then.

    But like slalom, if you don't add up speed/body mass/narrow angles you fall.

    But exactly the same in hockey. Players fall all the time.

    But I dont want us to fall all the time, not even occasionally, but enough times to scare people from pushing the limits too far.

    Something with the LS, if you push to hard all the way through at the same time you try to turn your player on a small surface. That should involve a risk.

    But instead of feeling like the player is a carousel and spin round and round and skate into the board, I would rather see players loose balance and blow a tire.

    LS + L2 should be your balance, your skates, and if you try to manipulate the physical laws too much, something bad deserve to happen.

    But I guess this would takes alot of testing and time for us to adjust to, but I think it would add alot of realism to the game. If thats something we all would like. 😊

    * Fighting puck raggers must be hard for EA, cause we dont want a game were everyone that just push forward in a aggressive forecheck deserve to get a piece of the puck. Heedless forechecking destroys the game as much as puck raggers do... To find a good mix there.... Can’t be easy.
  • when guy boucher was coach for tampa bay, the team receive a delay of game penalty when the players decide to puck ragging or wait for the other team to make pressure, so puck ragging its part of nhl rules. To solve the problem in nhl 21 and years to come; i suggest simply to set a timer to give like 10-15 seconds to move in opponent zone(offence) and give a delay penalty if player fail.
  • So this has been a great post with a lot of fun ideas, and I am not sure I can add much too it at this point but here it goes. I enjoy having to play D this year, I think that was a great fix, the challnge as someone said earlier is that the AI D is really bad this year so we are trying to play but change at the smae time and the Off players just feel way OP. but then the next game I will have a backwards skating chara, catch a streaking McDavid...huh? How does that happen? I think something that gets overlooked a lot is stamina and the effects that is SHOULD be having on players. What I mean is I can have my first D pair on the ice for the first 10 minutes of a period just by the way the game is going and they skate just like they did when the period started, I have a makar that started the period and was still running the play at 11 minutes of the first, and skated like he didn't miss a break. That has to be fixed along with the passing speed and body contact.
  • Sega82mega
    4308 posts Member
    What I mean is I can have my first D pair on the ice for the first 10 minutes of a period just by the way the game is going and they skate just like they did when the period started, I have a makar that started the period and was still running the play at 11 minutes of the first, and skated like he didn't miss a break. That has to be fixed along with the passing speed and body contact.

    Yeah that whole thing feels strange.

    I also wish that could be in another way.

    I would really like if stamina could run out faster and that changes was up to us to do.

    But for that to happen I cant see the gameplay be so intensive and fast as it is now. Feels like a goal can happen every second no mather were the puck is.
  • So this thread had been open long enough, EA community managers (not developers) have given no answer except "it's too hard so you guys figure it out". Seriously? You're just going to call it good?

    The thing is, we already know you don't care. Know how I know that? I had recorded video and a guy literally saying he ragged. I reported him, including the comment where the dude said yeah i ragged so what, so there was literally no work to do. And guess what? There was no ban whatsoever, because other people were seeing this guy still in Champs.

    EA - you literally had a confession and proof of someone ragging, and you shrugged your shoulders and said "meh" and did nothing. This means you do not care about it. So quit lying to us on here and pretending you do. Absolutely inexcusable and ridiculous.
  • monz
    958 posts Member
    They actually did something about it!!!!!

    They made it worse with shutout needed to get the 97 overall Mcdavid. I've already had 2 speds start ragging right off the opening faceoff.

    GOOD JOB EA!!!!
  • Interesting silence from EA reps here right after a couple of easy mitigation actions came up... :) It would be very easy for a few developers to immediately change some sliders to make the ragging harder. IMHO it would also require more skill to handle your players.
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    chli76 wrote: »
    Interesting silence from EA reps here right after a couple of easy mitigation actions came up... :) It would be very easy for a few developers to immediately change some sliders to make the ragging harder. IMHO it would also require more skill to handle your players.

    There was no response because I was off for the weekend. Regardless, it's technically not against the rules to rag in the game. It's not a bannable offense. Yes. It's annoying and bad sportsmanship. I hate it as much as the rest of you do. If it were as easy as everyone thinks to stop it, it would have been done. There hasn't been a perfect solution yet that doesn't affect the game in other negative ways.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    chli76 wrote: »
    Interesting silence from EA reps here right after a couple of easy mitigation actions came up... :) It would be very easy for a few developers to immediately change some sliders to make the ragging harder. IMHO it would also require more skill to handle your players.

    There was no response because I was off for the weekend. Regardless, it's technically not against the rules to rag in the game. It's not a bannable offense. Yes. It's annoying and bad sportsmanship. I hate it as much as the rest of you do. If it were as easy as everyone thinks to stop it, it would have been done. There hasn't been a perfect solution yet that doesn't affect the game in other negative ways.

    In real life hockey as I have played up to competitive and was captain on my teams. I was a defenseman IRL. Here is rule 63 of the hockey sportsmanship " Delaying the Game – A player, goalkeeper or a team may be penalized when, in the opinion of the Referee, is delaying the game in any manner." Unsure if this is legit as I found some info through https://northwestsportsfans.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/playing-the-puck-behind-the-net/ Will contact my cousin who played pro hockey to confirm as he would know more about it.

    I remember watching games where guys would hold the puck behind the net to long without looking for a play, such as a breakout. Fans would start booing so it drove them to start moving and finding a play.

    I'm fine with puck raggers who move around with the puck, as you can counter them once they make a mistake. But the stand still behind the net raggers are the worst. Would feel like if they are actually trying to do it, a delay of game penalty should be called or bad team play which if too many would kick them from the game.

    Just a suggestion in my opinion.
  • EA_Aljo
    3227 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    chli76 wrote: »
    Interesting silence from EA reps here right after a couple of easy mitigation actions came up... :) It would be very easy for a few developers to immediately change some sliders to make the ragging harder. IMHO it would also require more skill to handle your players.

    There was no response because I was off for the weekend. Regardless, it's technically not against the rules to rag in the game. It's not a bannable offense. Yes. It's annoying and bad sportsmanship. I hate it as much as the rest of you do. If it were as easy as everyone thinks to stop it, it would have been done. There hasn't been a perfect solution yet that doesn't affect the game in other negative ways.

    In real life hockey as I have played up to competitive and was captain on my teams. I was a defenseman IRL. Here is rule 63 of the hockey sportsmanship " Delaying the Game – A player, goalkeeper or a team may be penalized when, in the opinion of the Referee, is delaying the game in any manner." Unsure if this is legit as I found some info through https://northwestsportsfans.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/playing-the-puck-behind-the-net/ Will contact my cousin who played pro hockey to confirm as he would know more about it.

    I remember watching games where guys would hold the puck behind the net to long without looking for a play, such as a breakout. Fans would start booing so it drove them to start moving and finding a play.

    I'm fine with puck raggers who move around with the puck, as you can counter them once they make a mistake. But the stand still behind the net raggers are the worst. Would feel like if they are actually trying to do it, a delay of game penalty should be called or bad team play which if too many would kick them from the game.

    Just a suggestion in my opinion.

    I'm aware of this rule for the NHL. It's not implemented in our game as it's up to the ref to decide if they are delaying the game on purpose or not. We don't want people getting unnecessarily penalized if they aren't actually ragging, but are waiting for a line change or moving the puck around to get a better breakout. Also, what's to stop someone from moving the puck out just enough to avoid the penalty? It's not the best solution. Hopefully, a good method for handling ragging will be added someday. I absolutely understand how frustrating going up against these guys is.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    chli76 wrote: »
    Interesting silence from EA reps here right after a couple of easy mitigation actions came up... :) It would be very easy for a few developers to immediately change some sliders to make the ragging harder. IMHO it would also require more skill to handle your players.

    There was no response because I was off for the weekend. Regardless, it's technically not against the rules to rag in the game. It's not a bannable offense. Yes. It's annoying and bad sportsmanship. I hate it as much as the rest of you do. If it were as easy as everyone thinks to stop it, it would have been done. There hasn't been a perfect solution yet that doesn't affect the game in other negative ways.

    In real life hockey as I have played up to competitive and was captain on my teams. I was a defenseman IRL. Here is rule 63 of the hockey sportsmanship " Delaying the Game – A player, goalkeeper or a team may be penalized when, in the opinion of the Referee, is delaying the game in any manner." Unsure if this is legit as I found some info through https://northwestsportsfans.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/playing-the-puck-behind-the-net/ Will contact my cousin who played pro hockey to confirm as he would know more about it.

    I remember watching games where guys would hold the puck behind the net to long without looking for a play, such as a breakout. Fans would start booing so it drove them to start moving and finding a play.

    I'm fine with puck raggers who move around with the puck, as you can counter them once they make a mistake. But the stand still behind the net raggers are the worst. Would feel like if they are actually trying to do it, a delay of game penalty should be called or bad team play which if too many would kick them from the game.

    Just a suggestion in my opinion.

    I'm aware of this rule for the NHL. It's not implemented in our game as it's up to the ref to decide if they are delaying the game on purpose or not. We don't want people getting unnecessarily penalized if they aren't actually ragging, but are waiting for a line change or moving the puck around to get a better breakout. Also, what's to stop someone from moving the puck out just enough to avoid the penalty? It's not the best solution. Hopefully, a good method for handling ragging will be added someday. I absolutely understand how frustrating going up against these guys is.

    People tend to 'rag' the puck too little in the good meaning.

    First game 'ever' you actually - can - move the puck around to get a better breakout.

    So please don't take that away.
  • Constantly spinning, pivoting and making tight turns should drain your stamina, then you blow a tire. Problem solved.
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