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Is the game playing us instead??

Replies

  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I want that to be only when im going to switch between players - not when I have the puck.
  • IceLion68
    1610 posts Member
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png
    We most certainly do NOT agree on this. LOL. Maybe for player switching but not for passing.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I want that to be only when im going to switch between players - not when I have the puck.

    Yes. I understand that and agree with it. This could be a little easier than the manual switching that currently is in the game.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1839 posts Member
    edited April 20
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I can currently make a blind, behind the back pass with 100% accuracy, my sauces are automated and I am able to hold the puck to my backhand for an absurd amount of time and rocket a 90mph tape-to-tape pass from that backhand with no wind up or follow through - so needless to say; the 'skill' associated with passing in its current state is very, very low.

    Like I said, icon based passing would be an improvement in SOME scenarios, not all.
  • Sega82mega
    4206 posts Member
    edited April 20
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I want that to be only when im going to switch between players - not when I have the puck.

    Yes. I understand that and agree with it. This could be a little easier than the manual switching that currently is in the game.

    I havent really giving the manual switching a fair chance. But might be cause I have tryed it but not quite satisfied with it, if I remember right, I had to 'click' for the player I 'asked for' numerous times, and by that I lost some importen seconds being busy with that. ( but this didn't happen all the time, ofc)

    But I will try it abit more tonight when I play some games.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I can currently make a blind, behind the back pass with 100% accuracy, my sauces are automated and I am able to hold the puck to my backhand for an absurd amount of time and rocket a 90mph tape-to-tape pass from that backhand with no wind up or follow through - so needless to say; the 'skill' associated with passing in its current state is very, very low.

    Like I said, icon based passing would be an improvement in SOME scenarios, not all.

    I agree with you when it comes to behind the back, no-look passes. I think those should be less accurate. I just wouldn't want to see the requirement to aim be lessened. I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.
  • I think higher passing rating often favours 'toxic good players' - it's a part of their - glide - hook - style of playing.

    I think I rather have clean realistic passes that now and then miss their target then 10-12 passes in a row that many use just to avoid the other player - but have no intrest of attacking or what so ever.

    But I cant say for 100% im right about this.

  • IceLion68
    1610 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.

    But the fact that it's ever done is an example of the imbalance between what defense and offense are required to do to be successful.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.

    But the fact that it's ever done is an example of the imbalance between what defense and offense are required to do to be successful.

    That's a fair statement, but both offense and defense have their own set of tools. There's a skill gap in how you use them. I'm not saying defense couldn't use a more diverse skillset, but there are many that can use the existing defensive abilities very well. Where do we draw the line between assistance from the game and personal skill?
  • Sega82mega
    4206 posts Member
    edited April 20
    Is assistance from the game really necessary?..

    Or what would happen then? The game would be too difficult? It would still be the same for everyone. So the less good would play against each other and one of them will still feel good when he beats the other.. Or am I wrong here? 🤔

    Myself I hate assistance, I wanna feel it's me - nothing else - thats behind whats happening.

  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Is assistance from the game really necessary?..

    Or what would happen then? The game would be to difficult? It would still be the same for everyone. So the less good would play against each other and one of them will still feel good when he beats the other.. Or am I wrong here? 🤔

    Myself I hate assistance, I wanna feel it's me - nothing else - thats behind whats happening.

    I like this idea, but it most likely would be very frustrating for even the sim community. Do you currently play with your online pass assist at 0%? If not, try it out and that should give you an idea of the effect of assistance. Personally, I think some is good for the game and makes it more fun. In the end, we need a game that is more fun than frustrating while still getting wins/losses based on individual skill.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Is assistance from the game really necessary?..

    Or what would happen then? The game would be to difficult? It would still be the same for everyone. So the less good would play against each other and one of them will still feel good when he beats the other.. Or am I wrong here? 🤔

    Myself I hate assistance, I wanna feel it's me - nothing else - thats behind whats happening.

    I like this idea, but it most likely would be very frustrating for even the sim community. Do you currently play with your online pass assist at 0%? If not, try it out and that should give you an idea of the effect of assistance. Personally, I think some is good for the game and makes it more fun. In the end, we need a game that is more fun than frustrating while still getting wins/losses based on individual skill.

    Yeah I thought you ask. No I dont, but thats mainly because I dont want to give my opponent's any advantage on me. But if I knew we all had to play with 0% I would definitely like it.

    Feels better to know I get beaten to 100% human and 0% assistance, if you know what I mean.

    I think the 'fun factor' in having 0% assistance would be the pleasure everyone feels when we accomplish something hard.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Is assistance from the game really necessary?..

    Or what would happen then? The game would be to difficult? It would still be the same for everyone. So the less good would play against each other and one of them will still feel good when he beats the other.. Or am I wrong here? 🤔

    Myself I hate assistance, I wanna feel it's me - nothing else - thats behind whats happening.

    I like this idea, but it most likely would be very frustrating for even the sim community. Do you currently play with your online pass assist at 0%? If not, try it out and that should give you an idea of the effect of assistance. Personally, I think some is good for the game and makes it more fun. In the end, we need a game that is more fun than frustrating while still getting wins/losses based on individual skill.

    Yeah I thought you ask. No I dont, but thats mainly because I dont want to give my opponent's any advantage on me. But if I knew we all had to play with 0% I would definitely like it.

    Feels better to know I get beaten to 100% human and 0% assistance, if you know what I mean.

    I think the 'fun factor' in having 0% assistance would be the pleasure everyone feels when we accomplish something hard.

    I don't think no assistance would be as popular as people seem to think it would be. Otherwise, we wouldn't be getting requests for custom player builds to return or any way to modify your abilities. A good balance of skill and assist seems like it would be more preferred. At that point, you have a pretty even playing field and skill is still going to be the deciding factor.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Is assistance from the game really necessary?..

    Or what would happen then? The game would be to difficult? It would still be the same for everyone. So the less good would play against each other and one of them will still feel good when he beats the other.. Or am I wrong here? 🤔

    Myself I hate assistance, I wanna feel it's me - nothing else - thats behind whats happening.

    I like this idea, but it most likely would be very frustrating for even the sim community. Do you currently play with your online pass assist at 0%? If not, try it out and that should give you an idea of the effect of assistance. Personally, I think some is good for the game and makes it more fun. In the end, we need a game that is more fun than frustrating while still getting wins/losses based on individual skill.

    Yeah I thought you ask. No I dont, but thats mainly because I dont want to give my opponent's any advantage on me. But if I knew we all had to play with 0% I would definitely like it.

    Feels better to know I get beaten to 100% human and 0% assistance, if you know what I mean.

    I think the 'fun factor' in having 0% assistance would be the pleasure everyone feels when we accomplish something hard.

    I don't think no assistance would be as popular as people seem to think it would be. Otherwise, we wouldn't be getting requests for custom player builds to return or any way to modify your abilities. A good balance of skill and assist seems like it would be more preferred. At that point, you have a pretty even playing field and skill is still going to be the deciding factor.

    No you are probebly right.

    Enough assistance to get the game going but the same time as little assistance as it can be to leave the most of the action on the ice to us.

    Probebly a thin line there.

    I wonder if you could be the best player in the world with 0% assistance, would be cool if it could be an advantage to yourself if you knew how to play without any assistance.. But I dont think thats the case right now.
  • There was a suggestion that EA should modify online sliders to make the gameplay feel more realistic. Is it a totally impossible thought there would be two or three test periods with different slider sets for few days? And after that gather feedback about it?
  • j0rtsu67 wrote: »
    There was a suggestion that EA should modify online sliders to make the gameplay feel more realistic. Is it a totally impossible thought there would be two or three test periods with different slider sets for few days? And after that gather feedback about it?

    Yeah seriously, thats a brilliant idea.

    Especially cause this game is probebly good enough as it is, it's just a mather of having the right sliders.

    3 diffrent sliders for a week or so - then feedback + some sort of voting. Perfect 😏👌
  • IceLion68
    1610 posts Member
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.

    But the fact that it's ever done is an example of the imbalance between what defense and offense are required to do to be successful.

    That's a fair statement, but both offense and defense have their own set of tools. There's a skill gap in how you use them. I'm not saying defense couldn't use a more diverse skillset, but there are many that can use the existing defensive abilities very well. Where do we draw the line between assistance from the game and personal skill?

    Well the easy answer/solution to that rests with you guys I think. Remove ALL assists (both sides) and playtest that and see what it looks like with regards to balance.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    j0rtsu67 wrote: »
    There was a suggestion that EA should modify online sliders to make the gameplay feel more realistic. Is it a totally impossible thought there would be two or three test periods with different slider sets for few days? And after that gather feedback about it?

    It's an interesting idea, but it would probably be pretty confusing for the very high majority of people playing that don't visit the forums. I'd rather see some sort of community test environment for this. However, you can also replicate what this would be like in an offline mode by turning off all the assists and setting the difficulty to All-Star.
  • EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I can currently make a blind, behind the back pass with 100% accuracy, my sauces are automated and I am able to hold the puck to my backhand for an absurd amount of time and rocket a 90mph tape-to-tape pass from that backhand with no wind up or follow through - so needless to say; the 'skill' associated with passing in its current state is very, very low.

    Like I said, icon based passing would be an improvement in SOME scenarios, not all.

    I agree with you when it comes to behind the back, no-look passes. I think those should be less accurate. I just wouldn't want to see the requirement to aim be lessened. I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.

    I mean, aiming would still matter...? It’s just that it’s naturally going to be a much weaker pass and will also have a lot of “built-in” error even with “perfect” user accuracy input when making a risky pass like that. It’s like using “power swing” in the show with a guy that has 20 power. It can lead to something good but it might not work even with near-perfect skill as power is not a strong point of the player’s skill set.
  • EA_Aljo
    3194 posts EA Community Manager
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    IMO, player switching issues are from people frantically trying to switch to the right player, clicking RT too much. I do it too when I have moments where manual switching has escaped me and I revert back to just auto-select.

    Again, using manual switching I've mitigated 99% of these issues. Yes, sometimes it still selects the wrong player but I chalk that up to my mistake, assuming my angle on LS was good.

    For those trying to get last man back, hold RT and click RS. Literally 100% of the time you'll take control of the last man back.

    Now.. I think we can all agree that player switching issues and some passing issues could be remedied with some good old icon-based passing, a la NBA & NHL 2k.

    gdynqf2.png

    I feel like this would take away from the skill with passing and automate it too much. There were a lot of complaints about tape to tape passing with the 360/PS3 generation of games. Wouldn't this also go against requests from the hardcore community that want more accountability for their play?

    I can currently make a blind, behind the back pass with 100% accuracy, my sauces are automated and I am able to hold the puck to my backhand for an absurd amount of time and rocket a 90mph tape-to-tape pass from that backhand with no wind up or follow through - so needless to say; the 'skill' associated with passing in its current state is very, very low.

    Like I said, icon based passing would be an improvement in SOME scenarios, not all.

    I agree with you when it comes to behind the back, no-look passes. I think those should be less accurate. I just wouldn't want to see the requirement to aim be lessened. I'm on the fence when it comes to auto saucing of passes though. This is part of having a higher passing rating. It's also not guaranteed it's going to happen. Even with high passing, you still need to manual sauce to be sure it's done. I still see many passes on the ice instead of sauced from players with high passing.

    I mean, aiming would still matter...? It’s just that it’s naturally going to be a much weaker pass and will also have a lot of “built-in” error even with “perfect” user accuracy input when making a risky pass like that. It’s like using “power swing” in the show with a guy that has 20 power. It can lead to something good but it might not work even with near-perfect skill as power is not a strong point of the player’s skill set.

    How complicated should passing really be? It's a pretty basic skill for pro players. There's already a built-in margin of error according to player ratings. I would think something like behind-the-back passes should only be available to players with really high passing, but otherwise, is the current passing system really needing a lot of work? The same goes for one timers. Is making them manual going to result in the game being more fun? I'm sure it would for some, but don't see this being a widely accepted change. That's pure speculation though of course. Maybe everyone would love it. At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's meant to be fun. I feel like making things overly complicated or raising the simulation factor really high is going to also bring added frustration.
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