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Stop lying to yourselves, cross crease is trash

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  • NHL 21 is absolute garbage. It truly is. What does me wonders isn’t just how bad this “hockey” game is, but we went through an entire console generation of absolute terrible NHL games. I don’t see, feel hockey anywhere in these titles. The series has been nothing short of a mess. There is no direction on where they want to go. Outright useless priorities on what to add to the game. The communication is none existent. Adding cringe worthy stuff to the game no one asked for AKA World of Cringe. Changing EASHL playoffs for no reason that now last two weeks of playing outside instead of in a rink. Let’s add dancing moves before the start of game that doesn’t impact gameplay but not new stick lift animations. It’s just what we asked for! Forcing us to play outside for what reason.

    The balance between offense and defense is laughable. Even a game changer joked that forced cross crease passes are beyond difficult to intercept. Input lag and delay are great additions since they’ve been in every nhl game this generation. Let’s change a progression system where when you reached a level to a complete RNG system in which stuff I unlocked nearly 3 years ago I have to unlock again. Very exciting! I can’t even get goal celebrations I have to unlock masks, which I Don’t use because I don’t play drop ins Don’t forget ignoring fans for nearly 3 years on a open all bag option.

    I’ve been coming here on and off for years but I don’t come as frequently and I don’t post any videos or barley comment because why should I? There just isn’t a point. Gameplay is a mess. They claim to read and hear feedback but they don’t. NHL 21 is a prime of example of release and bounce on the community.

    Exploits, cheese and other non hockey ways is disguised as “hockey” and promoted as the games “skill gap”. Watching or playing someone curl in the corner while the lacking hockey IQ Ai decide to leave their positions or the pass gets through multiple defenders for a trash cross crease is real fun. It’s fun playing ballerinas with sticks. It’s just what hockey is. Frankensteins Monster could play better positioning defensively than the Ai. One timers are not skilled at all and that’s all NHL 21 is. Takes no skill to spam the shoot button when a pass is coming when it should be timed for more skill, like players have been asking for but nope. Gotta keep low “skilled” garbage in the game for an easy reward. It’s the epitome of this series.

    Game was delayed a month for what? A lackluster Be A Pro that was forgotten about quickly? Cutscenes with no one talking. So fun. No gameplay tuners or updates because they bounced on this game to work on the next gen game that will lack modes and features while having the audacity to charge us full price. Our “content” is stuff for World of Cringe that majority of it you can’t use in Drop in 6v6 and next to none for club games. Fans wanted custom goalie mask creator? Nope instead have an ice cream jersey. Thanks EA. It’s just what I wanted in a hockey game to wear an ice cream jersey. I’ll people to buy this game based on that jersey.


    I hope this ESPN deal with the NHL makes hockey more popular so 2k can make NHL games again. Even with NHL 21 being on EA Play which Game Pass Ultimate users can play it’s still not drawing in fans. Wonder why. It can take upwards of 10 or more minutes to find games even on Friday and Saturday nights. Never ran into those problems on the 360. Then we have to turn of match location and have a chance of playing a laggy match just to play a game. I’m talking of about EASHL here.

    Between gameplay issues, code issues, server issues, exploiters, fighting against the game, terrible balance, Devs ignore fan base, what’s the point of playing?
  • Hehe sounds like you had enough. That was alot of anger.. In one post. 😬😜
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHL 21 is absolute garbage. It truly is. What does me wonders isn’t just how bad this “hockey” game is, but we went through an entire console generation of absolute terrible NHL games. I don’t see, feel hockey anywhere in these titles. The series has been nothing short of a mess. There is no direction on where they want to go. Outright useless priorities on what to add to the game. The communication is none existent. Adding cringe worthy stuff to the game no one asked for AKA World of Cringe. Changing EASHL playoffs for no reason that now last two weeks of playing outside instead of in a rink. Let’s add dancing moves before the start of game that doesn’t impact gameplay but not new stick lift animations. It’s just what we asked for! Forcing us to play outside for what reason.


    I believe they're going in the "casino simulator" direction.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Hehe sounds like you had enough. That was alot of anger.. In one post. 😬😜

    He speaks for ALOT of people because he's 100% correct.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Hehe sounds like you had enough. That was alot of anger.. In one post. 😬😜

    He speaks for ALOT of people because he's 100% correct.

    Yup he does. Meanwhile the silent once speak for themselves.

    I know it's alot of frustration out there, I can even feel it through the monitor sometimes when I play.

    Alot of things feels 'forced' almost violently, with this year gameplay.

    I have games I love but I also hate some of my games.

    But it's good to have this community, to take out some heat, now and then.
  • FloundinatorQQ
    112 posts Member
    edited April 27
    Jagavekov wrote: »
    EA_Aljo wrote: »
    Jagavekov wrote: »
    kyl_35 wrote: »
    @EA_Aljo can we please merge all of this dude’s threads with the cross crease one?

    Sorry for messing up your experience on the forums. I just figured that since this months old thread with over 850 comments has obviously not gotten EA to to fix the horribly broken pass interceptions, I might as well create some separate threads with videos to help them out.

    So far, pass interceptions aren't appearing to be broken. There's a big difference between needs improvement and isn't working. Broken implies interceptions don't work. So, when someone makes claims something is broken, but it's clearly not, that's not exactly being constructive as it turns into more of an angry rant. The videos surely help bring light to this issue, but it doesn't mean changes are going to happen in 21. Much of the feedback you guys send in gets applied to future games.

    This community wanted more accountability for individual play. We were told there's too much automation, too many animations, etc. Defense is a challenging position to excel at. Just like being good with the puck requires its own skill. A lesser-skilled forward going up against a good defender is probably going to lose the puck a lot more often than against a poorer defender. I frequently see teams that collapse to the slot attempting to break up cross-crease passes. If they had played the carrier instead of giving them plenty of time to make that pass, chances are good they'd disrupt the play. Part of the skill in defending is knowing the best way to defend in each scenario. Having 5 guys collapse to the slot isn't always the right answer. Teams with better forwards that pressure the carrier and break up those passes before they happen are very frequently rewarded.

    It's entirely possible changes to intercepting passes will be made in the future. That said, defending still needs to require skill and not just collapsing to the slot hoping for the best. Skill isn't only pushing the right buttons at the right time. It's also made up of making the right decision with how to handle each defensive scenario. There's absolutely room for improvement, but interceptions aren't broken.


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    I disagree, I think they are broken, because you can be in the perfect spot, be between the passer and recipient, and have pretty much the same reaction time to make an interception, have very high def awareness ratings (which SHOULD counter high passing ratings and the ridiculous prevalence of auto-saucing), and you won't make the play.

    Combine that with defensive AI like this:

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    And then physics like this:

    bdenj8wm0av9.gif

    And you have an extremely frustrating gameplay experience where there is a miniscule margin for error in defense (and even with no error you still probably won't make the play), and a gigantic margin for error on offense - you can abuse L2/LT and never have any consequences, send perfect blind backhand behind the back and between the legs saucer passes, run into the boards at full speed, stickhandle recklessly and never lose the puck, etc.















    This 100% I'm usually in decent position to intercept or stop passes as well as the cross crease, yet rarely get rewarded for it ( aka getting a stick on it or even the puck hitting my skates to disrupt the pass), yet I it seems like passes get intercepted wayyy to easily when the roles are reversed... it would be nice to get rewarded somehow for playing good solid hockey and having good positioning either with the body or the stick. As well as being rewarded for having a solid forecheck, like harrassing someone when the have the puck (such as giving them a couple of shoves), however that definitely is not the case.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1721 posts Member
    edited April 29
    I'm usually in decent position to intercept or stop passes as well as the cross crease, yet rarely get rewarded for it ( aka getting a stick on it or even the puck hitting my skates to disrupt the pass),

    Gliding as a defender to anticipate the pass works 90% the time. If you're skating full speed with a defender, they won't intercept the puck as often as when you are feathering the stick and anticipating the pass on your forehand.


    Rather than chase the puck carrier here, I read the play for the cross crease and intercept without issue:

    (Link for Mobile)

    Here is a similar play, but I work hard on making sure my defender faces the puck that I know is coming, and again - another clean intercept

    (Link for Mobile)
  • Just to add to this conversation, we should see a LOT more of this:



    It's concerning that passes being knocked off course like this happens rarely. It seems it's either always a clean tape to tape or a clean intercept.
  • Just to add to this conversation, we should see a LOT more of this:



    It's concerning that passes being knocked off course like this happens rarely. It seems it's either always a clean tape to tape or a clean intercept.

    What a relief to see. More of that goodies!
  • KidShowtime1867
    1721 posts Member
    edited April 29
    This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png
  • This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png

    Thats not forced in my opinion.. You had a pretty good separation to your opponent.

    I have definitely seen way more forced plays. Actually a quite nice goal.

    The opponent manage to switch between 3 diffrent players on that short clip. 😏👊
  • Sega82mega wrote: »

    The opponent manage to switch between 3 diffrent players on that short clip. 😏👊

    Good catch! This makes me feel better. But I still wish the A.I. would take action being so close to the shooter.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »

    The opponent manage to switch between 3 diffrent players on that short clip. 😏👊

    Good catch! This makes me feel better. But I still wish the A.I. would take action being so close to the shooter.

    Yeah especially that close to the net... It should be hard to get to the net and score.
  • FloundinatorQQ
    112 posts Member
    edited April 29
    It's definitely a rarity in eashl drop ins, I'm usually in similar position, however the puck seems to go right through me, so I have to utilize RB to break up passes more, which I'm actually getting pretty good at, lol

    Then again you're showing clips from which appears to be HUT, which you will have higher overalls, so you'll have an easier time disrupting passes. I primarily play EASHL and drop-ins, which all classes average around a 75 ovr. So be in those same positions, those pucks go right through you and usually result in a goal against. Or an advantage goes to your opponents. Which is my biggest gripe about WOC and the player class system. You don't get rewarded for playing hockey well, because everyone "has to be on a level playing field" which is dumb imo.
  • jrago73
    692 posts Member
    edited April 29
    This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png

    You and I are often on opposite sides of the intercept opinions and I have no problem with you making this cross crease as the other player panics to recover from taking both defenders out of the play to go collide behind the net.

    Also I'm sitting front row with you on the "passes shouldn't always be clean" bus.

    Edit: and watching again he also pulls a 3rd guy out of that passing lane to go for the cutoff poke from a little too far away after you reverse path.
  • IceLion68
    1567 posts Member
    This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png

    I know we have had our disagreements over cross creases but even to me this hardly seems like a "forced" or improbable cross crease. Total defensive breakdown leaving that guy open. I mean - as I have mentioned before - I would like to see goalies get a stick tip on passes through the paint a bit more often ... although the pass release was so close to the goalie I could probably forgive it in this case - he would have had almost no time to react to that in that tight.

    This is legit IMO. FWIW
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png

    Yeah this was a legit pass and for the reasons mega pointed out. One, you had separation and that separation happened because the user willingly took their AI out of position which is 100% where the “skill gap” should be in 1v1 modes imo.

    Funny enough, my gripe with this goal (if there’s any to be had, I think it was a good play) is how inefficient the goalie movement is there. He’s in the RVH, and rather than having an animation for a more upright RVH (or even just staying in the current RVH animation from that bad angle), the game has the goalie leave the post and go into a full butterfly with his foot outside of the post which makes recovering to the backside pass nearly impossible as he now has to pivot while down AND travel more distance than he would’ve had he stayed in the RVH.

    To be honest, I wouldn’t have minded seeing a save there had the movement been efficient as the shot was not efficient due to the catch and shoot animation that was required due to the pass placement which easily could’ve been nothing more than ratings impacting the placement. But the goalie’s terribly inefficient post play lead to this goal despite the lackluster defense.

    I also understand that as a goalie I’m going to be stickler when it comes to goalie movements. This is definitely nitpicking, but maybe that’s also because we don’t totally know what goes into these decisions. Would a goalie “awareness” stay being useful here? Would a high awareness goalie stay in the RVH there compared to a lower awareness goalie who would leave the RVH a little prematurely and get beat like in this scenario above?

    Lots of moving parts here and in hockey in general. It’s really a tall order to expect complicated decision making by AI players in a sport like hockey, but I guess that’s what frustrates me about seeing a lack of progress with them for so long as even small improvements would go an incredibly long way. Just the NZ alone this year makes this a much more enjoyable game than 20. Is it perfect? No, but the improvements are definitely felt and appreciated. Now imagine little parts of the AI getting some TLC like the NZ did this year over a 8 year period? Game would be more than likely in a really good state where I could much more easily justify the occasional mistake as “it’s a video game” or “mistakes happen IRL too obviously” (duh, hockey is a game of mistakes) than the current state. There’s way too many “blunders” if we’re going by the way chess engines rate the severity level of mistakes (blunders = critical, catastrophic, game-losing mistakes) right now on the defensive side of the puck, and cleaning that stuff up is just really going to make the current “foundation” shine much brighter.
  • This goal bugs me. I love using the move behind the net - but I feel my soul leave my body as I force a cross crease and it works. But is this really 'forced' or just me recognizing a wide open player? I dunno.

    (Link for Mobile)

    I mean.. the player was WIDE open but the ARI defender approaching from behind the net should've been able to snuff that shot

    IG7Zx0c.png

    I would say it's recognizing the play. If there were 3 defenders standing there then that's a different story.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4639 posts EA Community Manager
    This goal was the result of the other player moving their players out of position.

    1st player he controls runs into the wall. Takes control of the 2nd player to go behind the net which was #1 not necessary to defend the net and #2 then proceeds to run into the other defender again. Takes control of the third defender to spin away from the net.

    I do agree with @KidShowtime1867 how #55 could have made an attempt to take an attempt at stabbing the puck at the last moment. That would be some positive AI improvement. At some point though we have to take accountability into action where goals scored on this type of defensive behavior should be rewarded and had little to do with the effectiveness of cross-crease goals.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4639 posts EA Community Manager
    Great move behind the net btw, @KidShowtime1867.

    When you pull that move off do you see AI overcommit to the other side like in that video on a regular basis?
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