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Unscientific NHL 21 Goal types Chart

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Jagavekov
156 posts Member

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Please forgive my lacking pie chart skills

Replies

  • 😄😄😄
    Good job on the chart..
    Im sure it s easier for the people at Ea
    To figure thing out...it s better then a wall of word...
    Cheers
    MRSENATEURS
  • Greyinsi
    132 posts Member
    edited May 3
    Hmm... seems about right. 🤔
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    For me - it's 'forced blue to 95%,' forced shortside 3% 'forced slapshots 1% syntax error goal 1%.

    But at least it's weigh up alot when it comes to my own goals. Or else I wouldn’t stand it..

    😏
  • With custom goalies and sliders, this pie chart can be noticeably different, especially when playing with manual passing.

    Shameless plug of some highlights of one of my more recent games:



    You’ll see a great goal from a screen and some nice hits. The more recent post has 4 really nice saves

    One thing I noticed from testing, I played a 5-3 game with shooting accuracy at 53, then played a 1-1 game with shooting accuracy at 51. I didn’t notice many more missed nets but I did notice bigger saves from the goalies on some pretty prime scoring chances that I was getting used to seeing go in. Wondering if shooting accuracy is an even stronger slider than we all think (ie. Doesnt just control accuracy but possible success rates as well).
  • Jagavekov
    156 posts Member
    With custom goalies and sliders, this pie chart can be noticeably different, especially when playing with manual passing.

    Shameless plug of some highlights of one of my more recent games:



    You’ll see a great goal from a screen and some nice hits. The more recent post has 4 really nice saves

    One thing I noticed from testing, I played a 5-3 game with shooting accuracy at 53, then played a 1-1 game with shooting accuracy at 51. I didn’t notice many more missed nets but I did notice bigger saves from the goalies on some pretty prime scoring chances that I was getting used to seeing go in. Wondering if shooting accuracy is an even stronger slider than we all think (ie. Doesnt just control accuracy but possible success rates as well).

    The online sliders definitely deserve part of the blame for the "Harlem Globetrotters on ice" online gameplay experience this year.
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    With custom goalies and sliders, this pie chart can be noticeably different, especially when playing with manual passing.

    Shameless plug of some highlights of one of my more recent games:



    You’ll see a great goal from a screen and some nice hits. The more recent post has 4 really nice saves

    One thing I noticed from testing, I played a 5-3 game with shooting accuracy at 53, then played a 1-1 game with shooting accuracy at 51. I didn’t notice many more missed nets but I did notice bigger saves from the goalies on some pretty prime scoring chances that I was getting used to seeing go in. Wondering if shooting accuracy is an even stronger slider than we all think (ie. Doesnt just control accuracy but possible success rates as well).

    Thats how the game should look.

    And feel..

    Nice goals and hits.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    With custom goalies and sliders, this pie chart can be noticeably different, especially when playing with manual passing.

    Shameless plug of some highlights of one of my more recent games:



    You’ll see a great goal from a screen and some nice hits. The more recent post has 4 really nice saves

    One thing I noticed from testing, I played a 5-3 game with shooting accuracy at 53, then played a 1-1 game with shooting accuracy at 51. I didn’t notice many more missed nets but I did notice bigger saves from the goalies on some pretty prime scoring chances that I was getting used to seeing go in. Wondering if shooting accuracy is an even stronger slider than we all think (ie. Doesnt just control accuracy but possible success rates as well).

    Thats how the game should look.

    And feel..

    Nice goals and hits.

    I agree. There’s just goals that happen in my slider set that you’d never see online which is a shame because I find tips, screens, and even five hole goals when the puck movement is good to be real. The one scramble goal after the goalies A-frame saves a shin pass deflection was awesome! These are the “wow” moments that leave me wanting more, not a perfectly executed spin-o-Rama 90 mph backhand pass to a 4th liner 7 minutes into his shift who fire a slapshot one-timer in stride bar down...

    Here’s another few from a more recent game. A screen, a rebound, and a five hole goal all in one game. The screen goal being my favorite due to how common we’ve seen shortside screen goals in the NHL the last few years. Imo, this is where the shooting skill should be, not memorizing that cutting at a diagonal angle and going far side goes in more often than not.

  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.

    Yeah, people run around because they can and the meta tells you to constantly be sprinting around aimlessly. When there’s certain shots that always go in and when your acceleration and agility always allow you to recover for being reckless, there’s no incentive to not chase someone being patient. On that note, you’d never see anyone be this patient online (at least in 6s) as screens aren’t a thing (and they’re not great in 1v1 modes) and the meta says there’s really no reason to shoot from there as that’s not a “glitch shot” so it has no hope of beating the goalie nor really producing any sort of constructive rebound.

    I’m honestly impressed by the functional foundation of this game. When it’s slowed down to normal speeds where fatigue really matters, it has most tools imaginable to play a very respectable game of virtual hockey. In fact, this game easily has the best all around mechanics of any hockey game ever I’d argue. If the AI get some TLC and if my sliders can ever consistently work again, this game would be addicting offline to any real hockey fan.
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    edited May 4
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.

    Yeah, people run around because they can and the meta tells you to constantly be sprinting around aimlessly. When there’s certain shots that always go in and when your acceleration and agility always allow you to recover for being reckless, there’s no incentive to not chase someone being patient. On that note, you’d never see anyone be this patient online (at least in 6s) as screens aren’t a thing (and they’re not great in 1v1 modes) and the meta says there’s really no reason to shoot from there as that’s not a “glitch shot” so it has no hope of beating the goalie nor really producing any sort of constructive rebound.

    I’m honestly impressed by the functional foundation of this game. When it’s slowed down to normal speeds where fatigue really matters, it has most tools imaginable to play a very respectable game of virtual hockey. In fact, this game easily has the best all around mechanics of any hockey game ever I’d argue. If the AI get some TLC and if my sliders can ever consistently work again, this game would be addicting offline to any real hockey fan.

    When you win a clean face-off back to your D in PK and you won't even have the time to aim a accurate slapshot out of your own zone - that tells you how short amount of time you got with the puck to do any constructive.

    Yeeeeah Bf1.. How about thoose sliders... That im still waiting on.... Tick tock... I aint getting any younger you know...

    😉😄
  • EA_Blueberry
    4652 posts EA Community Manager
    There's a few articles below for a more scientific approach. When these shots are on net they have an incredibly high rate of success. In the third article you can see where most of the goals are scored. You can see the #1 spot is right in the area you would expect the one-timers you see in our game. Strange how one-timers don't have more statistical tracking, so I guess we'll just have to wait until more sample studies come out. If you all come across any articles like these below that are worth a read, please share! I know a lot of you in these forums feel the solution to reducing one-timer effectiveness is having better AI recognition (either down the ice to help prevent the one-timer being set up or more interceptions by the dmen near the net), but it doesn't surprise me one-timers take up a large slice of the pie.

    "One-timers are the most dangerous non-tip shots in the NHL, at least until I see a bigger sample of data disproving that."

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/2016/2/1/statistically-analyzing-hockeys-one-timer

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/01/17/analyzing-one-timers-the-most-dangerous-shot-in-the-bag/

    https://www.gaimday.com/blog/how-are-most-nhl-goals-scored/
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    edited May 4
    Yeah one timers are definitely the most dangerous shot to take.

    So it's a difficult balance, would be strange to have a game were one timers almost never occur, cause the skill level was too high.

    But I think its the passes that leads to one timers that people dispute.

    The one timers % gotta be pretty high in this year, compare to all the rest of goals, so im guessing if the % of successful one timers went down by 10-20% it would still be the most dangerous shot to look for.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.

    Yeah, people run around because they can and the meta tells you to constantly be sprinting around aimlessly. When there’s certain shots that always go in and when your acceleration and agility always allow you to recover for being reckless, there’s no incentive to not chase someone being patient. On that note, you’d never see anyone be this patient online (at least in 6s) as screens aren’t a thing (and they’re not great in 1v1 modes) and the meta says there’s really no reason to shoot from there as that’s not a “glitch shot” so it has no hope of beating the goalie nor really producing any sort of constructive rebound.

    I’m honestly impressed by the functional foundation of this game. When it’s slowed down to normal speeds where fatigue really matters, it has most tools imaginable to play a very respectable game of virtual hockey. In fact, this game easily has the best all around mechanics of any hockey game ever I’d argue. If the AI get some TLC and if my sliders can ever consistently work again, this game would be addicting offline to any real hockey fan.

    When you win a clean face-off back to your D in PK and you won't even have the time to aim a accurate slapshot out of your own zone - that tells you how short amount of time you got with the puck to do any constructive.

    Yeeeeah Bf1.. How about thoose sliders... That im still waiting on.... Tick tock... I aint getting any younger you know...

    😉😄

    Haha you and a few others have asked as well! I’ll finally have some free time tonight to grab them, I promise!
    There's a few articles below for a more scientific approach. When these shots are on net they have an incredibly high rate of success. In the third article you can see where most of the goals are scored. You can see the #1 spot is right in the area you would expect the one-timers you see in our game. Strange how one-timers don't have more statistical tracking, so I guess we'll just have to wait until more sample studies come out. If you all come across any articles like these below that are worth a read, please share! I know a lot of you in these forums feel the solution to reducing one-timer effectiveness is having better AI recognition (either down the ice to help prevent the one-timer being set up or more interceptions by the dmen near the net), but it doesn't surprise me one-timers take up a large slice of the pie.

    "One-timers are the most dangerous non-tip shots in the NHL, at least until I see a bigger sample of data disproving that."

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/2016/2/1/statistically-analyzing-hockeys-one-timer

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/01/17/analyzing-one-timers-the-most-dangerous-shot-in-the-bag/

    https://www.gaimday.com/blog/how-are-most-nhl-goals-scored/

    All good reads and I agree with you. My main gripe is how easy one-timer execution is regardless of stats, movement speed, puck speed, and general AI coverage of potential one-timers. It should be a very effective shot, it should just be a pretty hard to execute shot as well.
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    That sounds lovely Bf1. I wont be able to try them out before Thursday, but im looking forward to it!

    I gotta ask.. Do you have to do alot of tweaking from one year to another, with the slider settings, or are them more or less the same?
  • Jagavekov
    156 posts Member
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.

    Yeah, people run around because they can and the meta tells you to constantly be sprinting around aimlessly. When there’s certain shots that always go in and when your acceleration and agility always allow you to recover for being reckless, there’s no incentive to not chase someone being patient. On that note, you’d never see anyone be this patient online (at least in 6s) as screens aren’t a thing (and they’re not great in 1v1 modes) and the meta says there’s really no reason to shoot from there as that’s not a “glitch shot” so it has no hope of beating the goalie nor really producing any sort of constructive rebound.

    I’m honestly impressed by the functional foundation of this game. When it’s slowed down to normal speeds where fatigue really matters, it has most tools imaginable to play a very respectable game of virtual hockey. In fact, this game easily has the best all around mechanics of any hockey game ever I’d argue. If the AI get some TLC and if my sliders can ever consistently work again, this game would be addicting offline to any real hockey fan.

    When you win a clean face-off back to your D in PK and you won't even have the time to aim a accurate slapshot out of your own zone - that tells you how short amount of time you got with the puck to do any constructive.

    Yeeeeah Bf1.. How about thoose sliders... That im still waiting on.... Tick tock... I aint getting any younger you know...

    😉😄

    Haha you and a few others have asked as well! I’ll finally have some free time tonight to grab them, I promise!
    There's a few articles below for a more scientific approach. When these shots are on net they have an incredibly high rate of success. In the third article you can see where most of the goals are scored. You can see the #1 spot is right in the area you would expect the one-timers you see in our game. Strange how one-timers don't have more statistical tracking, so I guess we'll just have to wait until more sample studies come out. If you all come across any articles like these below that are worth a read, please share! I know a lot of you in these forums feel the solution to reducing one-timer effectiveness is having better AI recognition (either down the ice to help prevent the one-timer being set up or more interceptions by the dmen near the net), but it doesn't surprise me one-timers take up a large slice of the pie.

    "One-timers are the most dangerous non-tip shots in the NHL, at least until I see a bigger sample of data disproving that."

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/2016/2/1/statistically-analyzing-hockeys-one-timer

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/01/17/analyzing-one-timers-the-most-dangerous-shot-in-the-bag/

    https://www.gaimday.com/blog/how-are-most-nhl-goals-scored/

    All good reads and I agree with you. My main gripe is how easy one-timer execution is regardless of stats, movement speed, puck speed, and general AI coverage of potential one-timers. It should be a very effective shot, it should just be a pretty hard to execute shot as well.

    One timers should absolutely make up a lot of the goals in this game, as they do in real hockey. However, the problem is the difference with HOW they occur. In real hockey, there is usually something leading to the one timer that causes the defence not not be in physical position to defend the pass or not have enough reaction time to defend the pass. In NHL 21, that is not the case. You can be in good position and have plenty of reaction time to disrupt the pass, yet still watch as the pass goes right by you for a one timer goal. That is part of why this game is such a mess online.
  • Jagavekov wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    Yeah I like that first goal too, were you patiently waiting for the right time to realese the shot.

    But in what situation online do you get that time to shot... Always someone that comes flying at you.

    Thats also something thats 'bad' for the game. You often don't get the time to realese a heavy slapshot. To do it well and have rhythm in the shot you need some time with the RS, but beacuse of the stress it often just becomes a question of getting the puck away with a fast flick with the RS.

    And a game were we can't shot properly according to the game mechanics - is not in it's right place.

    As you said - the potential is huge - but beacuse of how things are - we only get to see 30% of it - for the online section, anyway.

    Yeah, people run around because they can and the meta tells you to constantly be sprinting around aimlessly. When there’s certain shots that always go in and when your acceleration and agility always allow you to recover for being reckless, there’s no incentive to not chase someone being patient. On that note, you’d never see anyone be this patient online (at least in 6s) as screens aren’t a thing (and they’re not great in 1v1 modes) and the meta says there’s really no reason to shoot from there as that’s not a “glitch shot” so it has no hope of beating the goalie nor really producing any sort of constructive rebound.

    I’m honestly impressed by the functional foundation of this game. When it’s slowed down to normal speeds where fatigue really matters, it has most tools imaginable to play a very respectable game of virtual hockey. In fact, this game easily has the best all around mechanics of any hockey game ever I’d argue. If the AI get some TLC and if my sliders can ever consistently work again, this game would be addicting offline to any real hockey fan.

    When you win a clean face-off back to your D in PK and you won't even have the time to aim a accurate slapshot out of your own zone - that tells you how short amount of time you got with the puck to do any constructive.

    Yeeeeah Bf1.. How about thoose sliders... That im still waiting on.... Tick tock... I aint getting any younger you know...

    😉😄

    Haha you and a few others have asked as well! I’ll finally have some free time tonight to grab them, I promise!
    There's a few articles below for a more scientific approach. When these shots are on net they have an incredibly high rate of success. In the third article you can see where most of the goals are scored. You can see the #1 spot is right in the area you would expect the one-timers you see in our game. Strange how one-timers don't have more statistical tracking, so I guess we'll just have to wait until more sample studies come out. If you all come across any articles like these below that are worth a read, please share! I know a lot of you in these forums feel the solution to reducing one-timer effectiveness is having better AI recognition (either down the ice to help prevent the one-timer being set up or more interceptions by the dmen near the net), but it doesn't surprise me one-timers take up a large slice of the pie.

    "One-timers are the most dangerous non-tip shots in the NHL, at least until I see a bigger sample of data disproving that."

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/2016/2/1/statistically-analyzing-hockeys-one-timer

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/01/17/analyzing-one-timers-the-most-dangerous-shot-in-the-bag/

    https://www.gaimday.com/blog/how-are-most-nhl-goals-scored/

    All good reads and I agree with you. My main gripe is how easy one-timer execution is regardless of stats, movement speed, puck speed, and general AI coverage of potential one-timers. It should be a very effective shot, it should just be a pretty hard to execute shot as well.

    One timers should absolutely make up a lot of the goals in this game, as they do in real hockey. However, the problem is the difference with HOW they occur. In real hockey, there is usually something leading to the one timer that causes the defence not not be in physical position to defend the pass or not have enough reaction time to defend the pass. In NHL 21, that is not the case. You can be in good position and have plenty of reaction time to disrupt the pass, yet still watch as the pass goes right by you for a one timer goal. That is part of why this game is such a mess online.

    Yep, I totally agree! They’re way too easily obtainable! Should take nice vision/puck movement to open up a one-timer.
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    That sounds lovely Bf1. I wont be able to try them out before Thursday, but im looking forward to it!

    I gotta ask.. Do you have to do alot of tweaking from one year to another, with the slider settings, or are them more or less the same?

    I think I’ve changed them quite a bit even from the start of this year. The more I watch real hockey, the more I really start to be able to fine tune and recognize what I like/don’t like in my game, the better they get imo.

    I’ve messed around with goalies more than ever this year.
  • Sega82mega
    3815 posts Member
    Aah thats good to hear, should mean that the game is evolving..

    Sounds a little bit like drawing a picture, you can always find ways to improve the picture.

    Not that I ever have draw a picture, but I imagine it to be so...

    😋
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Aah thats good to hear, should mean that the game is evolving..

    Sounds a little bit like drawing a picture, you can always find ways to improve the picture.

    Not that I ever have draw a picture, but I imagine it to be so...

    😋

    The easy ones are speed and hitting. Lot more contact but lower power contact in my games, and I put acceleration at a realistic level so you don’t feel like you’re playing NHL 2000-06 where weight and momentum don’t exist.

    The NZ improvements helped the game a bit, but there’s a long way to go. Traps literally stand still to a fault, stretch passes on the boards still aren’t contained well by the AI, but it was an improvement this year over 20.

    If the game could play the same every time you boot, that would be the largest improvement they could make.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4652 posts EA Community Manager

    Jagavekov wrote: »
    There's a few articles below for a more scientific approach. When these shots are on net they have an incredibly high rate of success. In the third article you can see where most of the goals are scored. You can see the #1 spot is right in the area you would expect the one-timers you see in our game. Strange how one-timers don't have more statistical tracking, so I guess we'll just have to wait until more sample studies come out. If you all come across any articles like these below that are worth a read, please share! I know a lot of you in these forums feel the solution to reducing one-timer effectiveness is having better AI recognition (either down the ice to help prevent the one-timer being set up or more interceptions by the dmen near the net), but it doesn't surprise me one-timers take up a large slice of the pie.

    "One-timers are the most dangerous non-tip shots in the NHL, at least until I see a bigger sample of data disproving that."

    http://www.nhlspecialteams.com/blog/2016/2/1/statistically-analyzing-hockeys-one-timer

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/01/17/analyzing-one-timers-the-most-dangerous-shot-in-the-bag/

    https://www.gaimday.com/blog/how-are-most-nhl-goals-scored/

    One timers should absolutely make up a lot of the goals in this game, as they do in real hockey. However, the problem is the difference with HOW they occur. In real hockey, there is usually something leading to the one timer that causes the defence not not be in physical position to defend the pass or not have enough reaction time to defend the pass. In NHL 21, that is not the case. You can be in good position and have plenty of reaction time to disrupt the pass, yet still watch as the pass goes right by you for a one timer goal. That is part of why this game is such a mess online.


    This is what we're relaying to the team on a weekly basis. It's ultimately their design decision on how the want to tackle this feedback, but we'll keep fighting the good fight for you all here by letting the know what we hear. I've seen the video examples shared here where the puck goes right past a defensemen, completely understand the irritation from that. Despite the pie chart above coming from a more sarcastic side of explaining it, we know what you're trying to tell us and acknowledge this is an important area of the game you want the team to be aware of. We have no updates to share on what their future plans are, but I assure you they have heard you all loud and clear.
  • EA_Blueberry
    4652 posts EA Community Manager

    All good reads and I agree with you. My main gripe is how easy one-timer execution is regardless of stats, movement speed, puck speed, and general AI coverage of potential one-timers. It should be a very effective shot, it should just be a pretty hard to execute shot as well.

    They're easy to pull off in game because all you have to do is hold the stick up towards the net before the puck reaches you. If that wasn't performed and you had to manually pull the stick back and then forward to time the shot, this is where you will see a lot of more failed attempts that could be outside of your control like lag.

    One of the articles mentioned above though is how they're hard to execute because the puck isn't always flat when it's being passed to the shooter. You could always throw in a more sense of realism where a skater with a lower pass rating has an increased chance of a wobbly pass (maybe reduced stamina could play a part in increasing that outcome?), however I'm just not sure if that addition of realism will result in a better gaming experience. You could go down the ice on a perfect rush, about to score the game winning shot due to the defense making a mistake, only to see your pass go right by the shooter. You know what I would do? "Oh come onnnnn?!"

    I don't think that's the solution, in my opinion. What do you all have in mind?
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