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Stop lying to yourselves, cross crease is trash

Replies

  • Sega82mega
    3794 posts Member
    I think, that clip, is not great material for a discussion... Or maybe it is..

    But it's clearly a stupid defense we are talking about here and a stupid offens.. Who even think of putting a puck through that 'junky pail of green dirt'...?

    And that offens need less automation, is something that would balance up the game.

    In question of defense vs offens.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1731 posts Member
    edited May 11
    jrago73 wrote: »
    @KidShowtime1867

    Not quoting all that.

    I still don't understand why bad offense has to beat bad defense. If D and O are bad then a realistic outcome should be the result, but rewarding the offense is the default.

    I'm ok with most of your arguments but you lose me at 4 can't see the puck because of the guys in front of him but the attacker who has the same screened view and 4 also in his way can somehow see and react to it in time for a perfectly clean reception and 1T.

    I definitely see the argument that the receiver has the same obstructed view. However, he has positioned his shoulders square with his teammate in anticipation of the pass, he can clearly view the passing lane and he's on his forehand ready and waiting.

    All of the other defenders in this clip are hustling. #4 is the only player who appears to 'see' the pass coming who isn't hustling to cover someone, but it's unfortunate it's an A.I. and he's also on his backhand.

    My guess is that #4 stopped reacting due to the human hustling to #4's position.

    Is it right? I dunno. I'm still on the side of this goal being okay based on the apparent mistakes made by the defending team. It would be nice to have a full clip of what happened in real-time.
  • IceLion68
    1575 posts Member
    edited May 11
    jrago73 wrote: »
    @KidShowtime1867

    Not quoting all that.

    I still don't understand why bad offense has to beat bad defense. If D and O are bad then a realistic outcome should be the result, but rewarding the offense is the default.

    I'm ok with most of your arguments but you lose me at 4 can't see the puck because of the guys in front of him but the attacker who has the same screened view and 4 also in his way can somehow see and react to it in time for a perfectly clean reception and 1T.

    I definitely see the argument that the receiver has the same obstructed view. However, he has positioned his shoulders square with his teammate in anticipation of the pass, he can clearly view the passing lane and he's on his forehand ready and waiting.

    All of the other defenders in this clip are hustling. #4 is the only player who appears to 'see' the pass coming who isn't hustling to cover someone, but it's unfortunate it's an A.I. and he's also on his backhand.

    My guess is that #4 stopped reacting due to the human hustling to #4's position.

    Is it right? I dunno. I'm still on the side of this goal being okay based on the apparent mistakes made by the defending team. It would be nice to have a full clip of what happened in real-time.

    While I agree this is terrible defense and this sort of thing should not be rewarded, I still think there is no way this pass should have made it all the way through without even a direction change. It really does make it seem as though the outcome is heavily weighted towards the pass being made, despite the astronomical odds. Now the evil part of me still thinks the guy deserved to be scored on - unless this was literally a demonstration to show this phenomena of OP offensive plays being unrealistically successful - but it would have been much less contentious if this had been a shot directly on net that went in with the goalie screened and all the bodies in front, or even if the pass had gone off a skate or stick and in.

    Forget for a second the argument about it being intercepted by a defender. What is the statistical likelihood of that pass making it through all those people without HITTING something?!
  • EA_Blueberry
    4641 posts EA Community Manager
    IceLion68 wrote: »

    how on earth did this dude manage to get all 5 of his players to collapse on the net like that?

    I'm still stuck on that.

    I've never experienced anything like that myself, nor do we see these clips on the regular. This feels very rare on the grand scale of games being played daily.

    I think @KidShowtime1867 makes a great point. We need to see how this play developed to understand how the players were moving around which led up to this. I want to see what the player was doing to get into this situation because if there was a lot of user controlling of the skaters going on, this can be fixed by changing that behavior rather than dedicate resources on addressing a rare scenario caused by player movement.
  • Sega82mega
    3794 posts Member
    edited May 11
    I can swear that player on the defense was not behaving in a 'normal' way.

    Or else that scenario wouldn't occur.

    First time I saw it I was sure the clip was from a eashl game.
  • RSall14
    607 posts Member
    The fact that people are trying to justify the puck making it through is insane.
  • RSall14 wrote: »
    The fact that people are trying to justify the puck making it through is insane.

    If the puck went through an object, then yea - that would be insane

    But the puck didn't pass through anything other than 5 hastily controlled and completely confused defenders.

    I don't think there's anything insane about that. Debatable for sure. 100%. That's why we're here.

    But it's not insane to suggest maybe there's logic at play here that penalized the defender for not having full control over his players.
  • Greyinsi
    130 posts Member
    The Ai have no problem picking up passes hustling away from the play in NZ. It would have made sense for the d players to react to the puck, which they have a good vision. 1T player has none. But this is EA title, AI is turned of in O-zone and passes are now pre-calculated so there would be zero bobbling of the puck, that would interfere the “flow”. Look how the the last defender freezes on his stride so he can let the puck through.
  • jrago73 wrote: »
    @KidShowtime1867

    Not quoting all that.

    I still don't understand why bad offense has to beat bad defense. If D and O are bad then a realistic outcome should be the result, but rewarding the offense is the default.

    I'm ok with most of your arguments but you lose me at 4 can't see the puck because of the guys in front of him but the attacker who has the same screened view and 4 also in his way can somehow see and react to it in time for a perfectly clean reception and 1T.

    I was just about to comment this as well. The shooter and 4 are looking through the same “window” or lane, both appear to be seeing the puck. I also agree that kid makes a lot of good points. I don’t necessarily agree that something 30 seconds ago should affect the result of where they are now, but I get where he’s coming from with that point. Bad defense should be punished, yes. I just want bad offense (forcing it through 5 guys rather than even scoring a goal with a pass to the guy next to him, or a first shot goal with the puck carrier because that’s basically a 2-on-0 there and the goalie would be anticipating a pass (five-hole shot is where I’d go here, speaking from experience as a goalie lol) to also be punished. Hook passes, ridiculous acceleration levels, perfect pass receptions all need to go.

    Goalies need to be a lot less perfect, way more dynamic (something I’ve proven can be done via attributes and sliders, default levels are just not good) screened way more, and not as effective against elite shooters with time and space. Game needs to reward shooting more, generating chaos, working the puck to fatigue your opponent. It’s just way too rush-focused and perfect play-focused right now.
  • Sega82mega
    3794 posts Member
    edited May 12
    jrago73 wrote: »
    @KidShowtime1867

    Not quoting all that.

    I still don't understand why bad offense has to beat bad defense. If D and O are bad then a realistic outcome should be the result, but rewarding the offense is the default.

    I'm ok with most of your arguments but you lose me at 4 can't see the puck because of the guys in front of him but the attacker who has the same screened view and 4 also in his way can somehow see and react to it in time for a perfectly clean reception and 1T.

    I was just about to comment this as well. The shooter and 4 are looking through the same “window” or lane, both appear to be seeing the puck. I also agree that kid makes a lot of good points. I don’t necessarily agree that something 30 seconds ago should affect the result of where they are now, but I get where he’s coming from with that point. Bad defense should be punished, yes. I just want bad offense (forcing it through 5 guys rather than even scoring a goal with a pass to the guy next to him, or a first shot goal with the puck carrier because that’s basically a 2-on-0 there and the goalie would be anticipating a pass (five-hole shot is where I’d go here, speaking from experience as a goalie lol) to also be punished. Hook passes, ridiculous acceleration levels, perfect pass receptions all need to go.

    Goalies need to be a lot less perfect, way more dynamic (something I’ve proven can be done via attributes and sliders, default levels are just not good) screened way more, and not as effective against elite shooters with time and space. Game needs to reward shooting more, generating chaos, working the puck to fatigue your opponent. It’s just way too rush-focused and perfect play-focused right now.

    And thats why I think its so difficult to 'choose side' in this clip.

    Neither the offense or the defense is particularly good.

    I dont like that the puck went through without a blink of an eye and I (probebly) dont like the way the defensive user probebly 'forced' hes whole team to get that pile of players infront of the net, I can almost ensure he 'manipulated' the whole gameplay.

    But I think we wouldn’t have the same problems to discuss if something was done to the hook passes, acceleration levels, and perfect pass receptions.

    A less 'perfect gameplay' would make this game more 'perfect'.
  • IceLion68
    1575 posts Member
    Bad defense should be punished, yes. I just want bad offense (forcing it through 5 guys rather than even scoring a goal with a pass to the guy next to him, or a first shot goal with the puck carrier because that’s basically a 2-on-0 there and the goalie would be anticipating a pass (five-hole shot is where I’d go here, speaking from experience as a goalie lol) to also be punished. Hook passes, ridiculous acceleration levels, perfect pass receptions all need to go.

    Not advocating for predetermined outcomes but this is why I think the "correct" result here should probably have been NEITHER the puck being intercepted NOR received and buried but rather the puck going off a skate or stick along the way - and POSSIBLY in the net.
  • untouchable_BF1
    1467 posts Member
    edited May 12
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    Bad defense should be punished, yes. I just want bad offense (forcing it through 5 guys rather than even scoring a goal with a pass to the guy next to him, or a first shot goal with the puck carrier because that’s basically a 2-on-0 there and the goalie would be anticipating a pass (five-hole shot is where I’d go here, speaking from experience as a goalie lol) to also be punished. Hook passes, ridiculous acceleration levels, perfect pass receptions all need to go.

    Not advocating for predetermined outcomes but this is why I think the "correct" result here should probably have been NEITHER the puck being intercepted NOR received and buried but rather the puck going off a skate or stick along the way - and POSSIBLY in the net.

    Yeah I agree. Threading that pass through probably should’ve been next to impossible, but there were two other valid ways to score there from a real life perspective, and one would never go in using online defaults (first shot) and the other maybe would’ve (pass to the near guy for a slight angle change) went in, but the guy standing on the other side of 5 opponents isn’t the play that should be rewarded.

    Funny enough, I LOWER pass interceptions offline when the game is actually playing a slower pace. Interceptions don’t happen online as often due to the fact that online everyone has to fly around all over the place and making precise movements when acceleration is at 50 is really difficult.

    When the game is slower, those animations kick in more and the game plays better for it. Add-in hard passes not being able to be received with perfection, and low and behold you actually start seeing tipped interceptions and scoring chances go by the way side thanks to bobbled passes which in-turn creates transition plays we see IRL all of the time.

    This game has such an impressive technical foundation that is just not even remotely seen online. I really don’t get why the comp community is catered to so much because their is a hidden gem here, and the default tuners don’t do this game justice at all. Online gameplay is incredibly gross compared to most slider sets you see on OS (and mine in my own opinion lol).
  • Sega82mega
    3794 posts Member
    I really think the more 'twisted' you play - meaning - semicircle, stop - up and down - in to the board - etc etc... That kinda awkward behavior should also mean that the accurate in passes should be decrease thereafter.
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    I really think the more 'twisted' you play - meaning - semicircle, stop - up and down - in to the board - etc etc... That kinda awkward behavior should also mean that the accurate in passes should be decrease thereafter.

    At minimum, it should drastically affect endurance which should lead to worse pass assist/accuracy, more bobbled pucks, lower shot accuracy, etc.
  • Sega82mega
    3794 posts Member
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I really think the more 'twisted' you play - meaning - semicircle, stop - up and down - in to the board - etc etc... That kinda awkward behavior should also mean that the accurate in passes should be decrease thereafter.

    At minimum, it should drastically affect endurance which should lead to worse pass assist/accuracy, more bobbled pucks, lower shot accuracy, etc.

    Yeah the more that affect that behavior in a bad way - the better.

    I can defend the most 'common goof-stuff' but when the elite choose to rock n roll - it becomes a hot-mess.

    I dont even think some plays are defendable - no mather what I do - at least it feels that way.
  • @KidShowtime1867

    So basically, you think that defence should be about keeping your players in their paths designated by EA, and any deviation from that makes them useless until they return to their designated path?
  • RSall14 wrote: »
    The fact that people are trying to justify the puck making it through is insane.

    If the puck went through an object, then yea - that would be insane

    But the puck didn't pass through anything other than 5 hastily controlled and completely confused defenders.

    I don't think there's anything insane about that. Debatable for sure. 100%. That's why we're here.

    But it's not insane to suggest maybe there's logic at play here that penalized the defender for not having full control over his players.
    I gotta post the one that literally went through his back skate for a cross crease goal O_O
  • KidShowtime1867
    1731 posts Member
    edited May 13
    Jagavekov wrote: »
    @KidShowtime1867

    So basically, you think that defence should be about keeping your players in their paths designated by EA, and any deviation from that makes them useless until they return to their designated path?

    No. I'm not saying that.


  • RSall14 wrote: »
    The fact that people are trying to justify the puck making it through is insane.

    If the puck went through an object, then yea - that would be insane

    But the puck didn't pass through anything other than 5 hastily controlled and completely confused defenders.

    I don't think there's anything insane about that. Debatable for sure. 100%. That's why we're here.

    But it's not insane to suggest maybe there's logic at play here that penalized the defender for not having full control over his players.
    I gotta post the one that literally went through his back skate for a cross crease goal O_O

    Then why don't you? lol
  • Sega82mega wrote: »
    Sega82mega wrote: »
    I really think the more 'twisted' you play - meaning - semicircle, stop - up and down - in to the board - etc etc... That kinda awkward behavior should also mean that the accurate in passes should be decrease thereafter.

    At minimum, it should drastically affect endurance which should lead to worse pass assist/accuracy, more bobbled pucks, lower shot accuracy, etc.

    Yeah the more that affect that behavior in a bad way - the better.

    I can defend the most 'common goof-stuff' but when the elite choose to rock n roll - it becomes a hot-mess.

    I dont even think some plays are defendable - no mather what I do - at least it feels that way.

    There’s a reason all of the good 6s teams still execute that boards to crease goaline cut with a pass originating from below the goaline that they’ve been doing since NHL 09. The crease is a very hard place to trigger pass interceptions for whatever reason and the success rate on those plays is insane if you don’t play on the man and get in the stick’s path because the pass will go through lol. Either that, you you need to almost play where the goalie is with most of your bode inside the crease facing out. It’s a really effective cut and always has been for all you 6s guys who are still playing this game competitively.
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