I remember that Juliet I sent you a request and accepted all the ones that I got - your towns all put my quasi-town to shame :oops: heights is so cool looking, but mine has about 5 buildings my brother used my town on and off - I think he said there was a sideshow Bob event? He got some stuff from it.
It's the Neverending Italian Adventure. I can't believe how many different spellings there are on different documents for some of Joe's relatives. His mom is "Vincenza Elena" on her birth certificate and "Vincetta" on her marriage certificate and "Vincetta Eileen" on JOE's birth certificate. Joe's dad was "Tomaso" on his birth certificate, "Thomas John" on his marriage certificate, and "Toby" on his death certificate. (Where he got the JOHN, we have no idea) ... Joe's grandfather is Giuseppe Guiseppe and Joseph, depending on which document you're looking at. Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born on either July 31st or on August 1st, depending on whether you're looking at his military card, his birth certificate, his wedding certificate, his Immigration Status stuff, or his death certificate. It goes back and forth. HIS father's name has a million different spellings. And Giuseppe was listed as "Happy" on Tomaso/Thomas/Toby's wedding certificate.
And that doesn't even account for Vincenza/Vincetta's mother, who was "Marie Williams" on Vincetta's birth certificate, but was "Mary Wells" on Vincetta's wedding certificate. Ack!
Or Toby's mom, whose name is spelled differently on her marriage certificate than it is on Toby's birth certificate.
And the different spellings of the LAST names are impossible to figure out.
What we finally figured out is that it's likely that Joe's grandparents (who came straight from rural Italy) were illiterate, and probably didn't know how to spell their own names. Seriously. Why would they have had to know how to spell their names, right? And when the information was being recorded, for birth certificates, who knows who was giving the information to various clerks (God love 'em) trying to understand thick Italian accents, and the person giving the information was going by what they knew, and might have been off one day on the dates, etc. ESPECIALLY with the death certificates. I don't know who gives information to the clerks who are recording death certificates ...
Giuseppe was born right around the time that Italy became unified, and different areas called themselves by different names, and names of towns/regions/etc. apparently changed along the way. So depending on who you ask, he could have been born in three different "places" in Italy.
And just imagine the mess at Ellis Island.
That's just the start of it. For instance, our poor daughter is going totally nuts, getting court orders to authorize release of birth certificates, like right now she's trying to get the Westchester County Court to certify that "Tomaso" is "Thomas" is "Toby" ... since he was born, married, and died in the same town. Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born in Italy, married in New York, and died in Connecticut (but never lived in Connecticut) ... so the variations on his records are more of a problem. (Duh. )
At this point, we honestly don't know if everything can be sorted out completely, translated, and satisfactorily "corrected" by July 8th, which is our appointment at the Italian Consulate. But we're going to show up with whatever we have at that time, and hope that if there are things missing, they take what we have and tell us to go get the rest, but don't make us wait another 8 months for the next available appointment with them. Maybe they'll let us come back and finish things up a little quicker.
Then it's just a case of sitting tight and waiting for whatever town in Italy gets the paperwork, to get it processed, which those who have done this before say could take "8 months to a year" ... and that assumes we can find out where the heck Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born in the first place. Because THAT is the town that needs to approve him.
This is NOT related to our game. Absolutely not. Because Batman and Superman were both DC comics. So I'm safe posting this. I love it. They're identical twins. Found the picture on google.
Actually, yes I am :P I find all of this really interesting. I do like a good bit of family history. I know it must be really frustrating for you, but in the past none of this getting the spelling of your name thing really mattered to anyone, so it was just made up as they went along to suit. No harm done. Apart from making your life a nightmare all these years later
I'm sure the Italian powers-that-be are used to this, so maybe it won't be too much of an issue (she said hopefully - fingers crossed).
I have a friend who is also going through the process of trying to get Italian citizenship. The amount of red tape is mind blowing :shock:
Actually, yes I am :P I find all of this really interesting. I do like a good bit of family history. I know it must be really frustrating for you, but in the past none of this getting the spelling of your name thing really mattered to anyone, so it was just made up as they went along to suit. No harm done. Apart from making your life a nightmare all these years later
I'm sure the Italian powers-that-be are used to this, so maybe it won't be too much of an issue (she said hopefully - fingers crossed).
I have a friend who is also going through the process of trying to get Italian citizenship. The amount of red tape is mind blowing :shock:
If I've already explained the naming conventions in Italy and why they make these situations so crazy, then ignore this. But here's the way I have been told it works. At least, this is how Joe's grandparents all did it. First sons are named after their paternal grandfather. Giuseppe/Joseph had 10 children, 7 of whom were boys. Five of them had sons, and each one named their first son "Joseph" ... So Joe has 4 cousins named "Joseph Marcucilli" ...
Second sons are traditionally named after the maternal grandfather. Three guesses what his first name was? Yep. Joseph. So, in theory, each family with two boys would have two brothers named Joseph. (Didn't happen. They all went rogue, with the blessing of Grandpa Joe #2. )
Joe's 4 cousins each have nicknames to tell them apart. Sometimes a physical trait, sometimes a favorite food or hobby, and lots of other possibilities. Joe was the first of all of the five "cousin Joes" so he's just plain Joe/Joey. The other four ... There's "Joemarc" "Skinny Joe" "Joey Baloney" and my favorite -- "Joey Feet" Family gatherings are a riot.
If that naming convention is at all common over in Italy, it must be a real circus for the government agencies trying to keep this all straight.
I've never heard of whipped honey, so I looked it up. Apparently you can make it yourself (it's all about crystals or lack of), but to be honest, it sounds like a bit too much effort for my liking. I am lazy
I've never heard of whipped honey, so I looked it up. Apparently you can make it yourself (it's all about crystals or lack of), but to be honest, it sounds like a bit too much effort for my liking. I am lazy
Never heardof whipped honey either....will have to look for some :-)
I've never heard of whipped honey, so I looked it up. Apparently you can make it yourself (it's all about crystals or lack of), but to be honest, it sounds like a bit too much effort for my liking. I am lazy
Never heardof whipped honey either....will have to look for some :-)
We did make some ourselves in Girl Scouts.... Time consuming. Rather spend the $ - but give it a go for sure!
I've never heard of whipped honey, so I looked it up. Apparently you can make it yourself (it's all about crystals or lack of), but to be honest, it sounds like a bit too much effort for my liking. I am lazy
Never heardof whipped honey either....will have to look for some :-)
We did make some ourselves in Girl Scouts.... Time consuming. Rather spend the $ - but give it a go for sure!
I'm convinced...going to have to try making some
My pasta sauce is bubbling away if anyone is hungry by the way
Replies
I like most jams/jellies, whipped honey.......... delicious
Oh and try PB and Marshmallow cream if you haven't - MAGIC!
favorite jelly is all fruit
It's the Neverending Italian Adventure. I can't believe how many different spellings there are on different documents for some of Joe's relatives. His mom is "Vincenza Elena" on her birth certificate and "Vincetta" on her marriage certificate and "Vincetta Eileen" on JOE's birth certificate. Joe's dad was "Tomaso" on his birth certificate, "Thomas John" on his marriage certificate, and "Toby" on his death certificate. (Where he got the JOHN, we have no idea) ... Joe's grandfather is Giuseppe Guiseppe and Joseph, depending on which document you're looking at. Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born on either July 31st or on August 1st, depending on whether you're looking at his military card, his birth certificate, his wedding certificate, his Immigration Status stuff, or his death certificate. It goes back and forth. HIS father's name has a million different spellings. And Giuseppe was listed as "Happy" on Tomaso/Thomas/Toby's wedding certificate.
And that doesn't even account for Vincenza/Vincetta's mother, who was "Marie Williams" on Vincetta's birth certificate, but was "Mary Wells" on Vincetta's wedding certificate. Ack!
Or Toby's mom, whose name is spelled differently on her marriage certificate than it is on Toby's birth certificate.
And the different spellings of the LAST names are impossible to figure out.
What we finally figured out is that it's likely that Joe's grandparents (who came straight from rural Italy) were illiterate, and probably didn't know how to spell their own names. Seriously. Why would they have had to know how to spell their names, right? And when the information was being recorded, for birth certificates, who knows who was giving the information to various clerks (God love 'em) trying to understand thick Italian accents, and the person giving the information was going by what they knew, and might have been off one day on the dates, etc. ESPECIALLY with the death certificates. I don't know who gives information to the clerks who are recording death certificates ...
Giuseppe was born right around the time that Italy became unified, and different areas called themselves by different names, and names of towns/regions/etc. apparently changed along the way. So depending on who you ask, he could have been born in three different "places" in Italy.
And just imagine the mess at Ellis Island.
That's just the start of it. For instance, our poor daughter is going totally nuts, getting court orders to authorize release of birth certificates, like right now she's trying to get the Westchester County Court to certify that "Tomaso" is "Thomas" is "Toby" ... since he was born, married, and died in the same town. Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born in Italy, married in New York, and died in Connecticut (but never lived in Connecticut) ... so the variations on his records are more of a problem. (Duh. )
At this point, we honestly don't know if everything can be sorted out completely, translated, and satisfactorily "corrected" by July 8th, which is our appointment at the Italian Consulate. But we're going to show up with whatever we have at that time, and hope that if there are things missing, they take what we have and tell us to go get the rest, but don't make us wait another 8 months for the next available appointment with them. Maybe they'll let us come back and finish things up a little quicker.
Then it's just a case of sitting tight and waiting for whatever town in Italy gets the paperwork, to get it processed, which those who have done this before say could take "8 months to a year" ... and that assumes we can find out where the heck Giuseppe/Guiseppe/Joseph was born in the first place. Because THAT is the town that needs to approve him.
Aren't you glad you asked?
Soooo Good! Can be pricey and hard to find but worth it!
found couple places online
Actually, yes I am :P I find all of this really interesting. I do like a good bit of family history. I know it must be really frustrating for you, but in the past none of this getting the spelling of your name thing really mattered to anyone, so it was just made up as they went along to suit. No harm done. Apart from making your life a nightmare all these years later
I'm sure the Italian powers-that-be are used to this, so maybe it won't be too much of an issue (she said hopefully - fingers crossed).
I have a friend who is also going through the process of trying to get Italian citizenship. The amount of red tape is mind blowing :shock:
I'm cooking spaghetti bolonese tomorrow by the way :-)
If I've already explained the naming conventions in Italy and why they make these situations so crazy, then ignore this. But here's the way I have been told it works. At least, this is how Joe's grandparents all did it. First sons are named after their paternal grandfather. Giuseppe/Joseph had 10 children, 7 of whom were boys. Five of them had sons, and each one named their first son "Joseph" ... So Joe has 4 cousins named "Joseph Marcucilli" ...
Second sons are traditionally named after the maternal grandfather. Three guesses what his first name was? Yep. Joseph. So, in theory, each family with two boys would have two brothers named Joseph. (Didn't happen. They all went rogue, with the blessing of Grandpa Joe #2. )
Joe's 4 cousins each have nicknames to tell them apart. Sometimes a physical trait, sometimes a favorite food or hobby, and lots of other possibilities. Joe was the first of all of the five "cousin Joes" so he's just plain Joe/Joey. The other four ... There's "Joemarc" "Skinny Joe" "Joey Baloney" and my favorite -- "Joey Feet" Family gatherings are a riot.
If that naming convention is at all common over in Italy, it must be a real circus for the government agencies trying to keep this all straight.
I've never heard of whipped honey, so I looked it up. Apparently you can make it yourself (it's all about crystals or lack of), but to be honest, it sounds like a bit too much effort for my liking. I am lazy
Never heardof whipped honey either....will have to look for some :-)
We did make some ourselves in Girl Scouts.... Time consuming. Rather spend the $ - but give it a go for sure!
I'm convinced...going to have to try making some
My pasta sauce is bubbling away if anyone is hungry by the way
8)
sometimes
the girl complains if I make mac and cheese from scratch - which to me is the only way................
I Love pasta.... think I could live on it.....and homemade Mac and Cheese is the only way to go