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Congratulations to the Brexitters!!

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  • johncolombo
    11424 posts Senior Moderator
    edited June 2016
    I've been super busy the past 2 days but have been trying to stay on top of this issue. You all have some wonderful insight into the situation and it was good to get insider info from our friends from the UK first hand. However you may have just helped to create a trump presidency. I dunno, I'm sure my stocks and Iras dropped again. I suppose in the end we're all going to be poor with no retirement or SS here in the USA. It's hard, sad, and confusing. 2016 certainly turned into Bizarro world year. Anyway wishing the UK success in their endeavors. I still need to read more and think this out. But I'm leaning towards planned world economic crash.
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  • moxxee
    7717 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    2u5rjg2.png
  • johncolombo
    11424 posts Senior Moderator
    edited June 2016
    moxxee wrote:
    2u5rjg2.png

    giphy.gif
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  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    juliet603 wrote:
    moxxee wrote:
    Correct: Never trust a politician. For some reason people are always shocked when they are caught lying.
    :roll:

    Right?!

    @ Nick I have family members directly affected by this, as well as my own future plans (though these are future plans so I wont count myself) so it's pointless trying to convince me. Peoples lives I care about are being f-ed over by ppl who are voting for all the wrong reasons. At times like this I WISH I wasn't British, but I am so hey-go. As long as people who don't want to work can kid themselves that it was immigrants taking the jobs they didn't want who cares :roll: and claiming benefits at the same time... Which is it? Stealing our jobs or stealing benefits? I get confused seeing as they contradict themselves.

    Can the next referendum be to lose the monarchy please? Although the same people would only vote to keep those pointless people in.

    And can ppl stop saying "we" voted to leave !! It was almost 50%/50%!!

    What do you mean these are future plans so I won't count myself? So are you saying it's not going to affect you? It's is going to affect you. It's going to affect me it's going to affect not just future generations but current generations too. If your saying that then why did you vote?

    As for the issue of jobs and benefits it's both. There are people who can't get jobs and been trying to get jobs for years yet you get them coming in and get jobs quicker than we do. That's annoying. Why are they given preference over us. We have skilled workers but are getting over looked?
    As for benefits why are they allowed to claim for people who live abroad that's wrong and yet people are getting their benefits cut or some can't get them. There are those who can't get housing benefit yet they get it why? There are people here who can't get houses and been waiting years for them yet those coming in are givern priority. Why? This is a reason why a lot of us a annoyed that our own people aren't getting looked after. Let me ask are you happy for your taxes to pay for someone claiming benefits for someone not in this country and proberly won't ever set foot on here?

    Oh and wishing you wasn't britsh because people are fed up with what I mentioned above then more fool you.
    My friend list is full

    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • barrymcerlea
    2096 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    HomerND84 wrote:
    juliet603 wrote:
    moxxee wrote:
    Correct: Never trust a politician. For some reason people are always shocked when they are caught lying.
    :roll:

    Right?!

    @ Nick I have family members directly affected by this, as well as my own future plans (though these are future plans so I wont count myself) so it's pointless trying to convince me. Peoples lives I care about are being f-ed over by ppl who are voting for all the wrong reasons. At times like this I WISH I wasn't British, but I am so hey-go. As long as people who don't want to work can kid themselves that it was immigrants taking the jobs they didn't want who cares :roll: and claiming benefits at the same time... Which is it? Stealing our jobs or stealing benefits? I get confused seeing as they contradict themselves.

    Can the next referendum be to lose the monarchy please? Although the same people would only vote to keep those pointless people in.

    And can ppl stop saying "we" voted to leave !! It was almost 50%/50%!!

    What do you mean these are future plans so I won't count myself? So are you saying it's not going to affect you? It's is going to affect you. It's going to affect me it's going to affect not just future generations but current generations too. If your saying that then why did you vote?

    As for the issue of jobs and benefits it's both. There are people who can't get jobs and been trying to get jobs for years yet you get them coming in and get jobs quicker than we do. That's annoying. Why are they given preference over us. We have skilled workers but are getting over looked?
    As for benefits why are they allowed to claim for people who live abroad that's wrong and yet people are getting their benefits cut or some can't get them. There are those who can't get housing benefit yet they get it why? There are people here who can't get houses and been waiting years for them yet those coming in are givern priority. Why? This is a reason why a lot of us a annoyed that our own people aren't getting looked after. Let me ask are you happy for your taxes to pay for someone claiming benefits for someone not in this country and proberly won't ever set foot on here?

    Oh and wishing you wasn't britsh because people are fed up with what I mentioned above then more fool you.

    I said to myself that I wouldn't return to this thread but this is too much. In the area I live every immigrant I know has an excellent work ethic. They've had to work to get here, in this country, usually coming from a terribly under developed area. Where I live, at least, they do the jobs the locals are too lazy to do. They provide vital services and even CREATE jobs and housing.
    A Portuguese man came and worked for my father in around '08 and stayed with him until his recent death. He said he was saving money, and probably claiming child benefits for his three children in Portugal, to get them out of poverty.
    A little compassion goes a LONG way, Nick.
  • juliet603
    17888 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    HomerND84 wrote:
    juliet603 wrote:
    moxxee wrote:
    Correct: Never trust a politician. For some reason people are always shocked when they are caught lying.
    :roll:

    Right?!

    @ Nick I have family members directly affected by this, as well as my own future plans (though these are future plans so I wont count myself) so it's pointless trying to convince me. Peoples lives I care about are being f-ed over by ppl who are voting for all the wrong reasons. At times like this I WISH I wasn't British, but I am so hey-go. As long as people who don't want to work can kid themselves that it was immigrants taking the jobs they didn't want who cares :roll: and claiming benefits at the same time... Which is it? Stealing our jobs or stealing benefits? I get confused seeing as they contradict themselves.

    Can the next referendum be to lose the monarchy please? Although the same people would only vote to keep those pointless people in.

    And can ppl stop saying "we" voted to leave !! It was almost 50%/50%!!

    What do you mean these are future plans so I won't count myself? So are you saying it's not going to affect you? It's is going to affect you. It's going to affect me it's going to affect not just future generations but current generations too. If your saying that then why did you vote?

    As for the issue of jobs and benefits it's both. There are people who can't get jobs and been trying to get jobs for years yet you get them coming in and get jobs quicker than we do. That's annoying. Why are they given preference over us. We have skilled workers but are getting over looked?
    As for benefits why are they allowed to claim for people who live abroad that's wrong and yet people are getting their benefits cut or some can't get them. There are those who can't get housing benefit yet they get it why? There are people here who can't get houses and been waiting years for them yet those coming in are givern priority. Why? This is a reason why a lot of us a annoyed that our own people aren't getting looked after. Let me ask are you happy for your taxes to pay for someone claiming benefits for someone not in this country and proberly won't ever set foot on here?

    Oh and wishing you wasn't britsh because people are fed up with what I mentioned above then more fool you.

    What I meant by that is although I have planned for years to move to Spain, I'm not actually there yet so it doesn't immediately effect me like others so I didn't want to lay on a whole "poor me" speech. My brother and his Polish girlfriend who have spent the past 8 or 9 years working abroad (currently in Barcelona) on the other hand are feeling pretty uncertain right now. He even told me yesterday that they're considering getting married faster than planned (they're not even engaged yet!) so he can remain an EU member. And what's the EU done for him? Well since living in Spain he has needed spinal surgery and just this week broke his hand - all was covered for FREE because he was a working EU member. It would have cost thousands otherwise. God help them if they got cancer or had a heart attack.

    I meant that a lot of the people you see moaning about immigrants taking their jobs are also saying it while happily drinking beer in their front garden at 2pm, happily grinning at the news cameras... You REALLY think they're the type of people who want jobs cleaning toilets? They seem to be loving not working! They will also be screwed if the government decides to take away their benefits once they're not legally required by the EU to provide them.

    Yes I am the most unproud unpatriotic person in the world (not just due to this referendum). Just look at British football hooligans and drunken girls falling out of nightclubs showing their arses while yelling at people every week and tell me what I should be proud of? A racist, rude, obnoxious country? No thanks. Just a shame I may now be stuck here unless I win the lottery.

    The world is going mad.
  • tommy1724
    1972 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    The whole 'they're takin' our jobs' is a myth. Lots of reliable economic analyses show that each new immigrant to an economy creates more employment than they take. This chunk of a piece in the NY Times last year (which I actually found reprinted in that bastion of left wing granola crunching called Forbes magazine...) explains it better than I can...

    "The chief logical mistake we make is something called the Lump of Labor Fallacy: the erroneous notion that there is only so much work to be done and that no one can get a job without taking one from someone else. It’s an understandable assumption. After all, with other types of market transactions, when the supply goes up, the price falls. If there were suddenly a whole lot more oranges, we’d expect the price of oranges to fall or the number of oranges that went uneaten to surge.

    But immigrants aren’t oranges. It might seem intuitive that when there is an increase in the supply of workers, the ones who were here already will make less money or lose their jobs. Immigrants don’t just increase the supply of labor, though; they simultaneously increase demand for it, using the wages they earn to rent apartments, eat food, get haircuts, buy cellphones. That means there are more jobs building apartments, selling food, giving haircuts and dispatching the trucks that move those phones. Immigrants increase the size of the overall population, which means they increase the size of the economy. Logically, if immigrants were “stealing” jobs, so would every young person leaving school and entering the job market; countries should become poorer as they get larger. In reality, of course, the opposite happens."

    Now, Brits want to think that brexit (ha! That autocorrected to 'resist'!) will give them more democratic control, I can respectfully disagree. But the xenophobic 'those people' arguments make me feel sad.
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Juliet your brother doesn't have to get married yet as he can apply for permanent Spanish residency after 5 years or 10 years of being there he can apply to be a Spanish national. In the meantime he is for the next 2 years from when we trigger our release from the eu. Also they will be working on a thing were our current nationals living and working a two in eu countries will be able still to move freely. If he's got health insurance when he stared his troubles then as long as his health issues were not self inflicted then he would be covered. ( please don't round on me with that last sentence I was using it as an example. Am sorry to hear about your bro and his health problems. I was only saying it as that if it was an accident then accidents would be covered).

    Again your view on people saying They are happy drinking and saying that they don't want them to come here taking their jobs is a small minority you making it out that thousands are saying that when in reality it's smaller than that. As you view on their benefits it's nothing to do with the eu it's our government who has control over that issue.

    So we as a nation are full of football hooligans and druken yobs? Am offended by that. You need to get facts right. When in France this summer' tournament we have been attacked by russian ultras French ultras who have randomly attacking us. You have these Russians who have said that they have been training to fight us. So if there is a kick off we as a whole get branded hooligans by our media and by the likes of you. Am not saying we don't have thugs who've gone to cause trouble because there are some but that's a small minority. So you don't feel British over a small minority who get drunk and make a fool of themselves more fool you there are far more things here to make anyone to be proud and not let the small minority bother them.

    Right Barry how do you know the locals near you are lazy to work. Has it not occurred to you that they have been trying to get jobs but haven't yet. I bet you the would love to work. Your just as Juliet was labelling them. As for people claiming money for people not living here why should we? Why can't they bring their family over here. Their country must have a benefit system to look after them. There are people over here as I said on a previous post that can't get benefits or have had them or cut or stopped. And yet your getting immigrants claiming what they are not entitled to.

    My stance on jobs is that we have skilled workers here that can't get jobs but these immigrants can. We should get our skilled workers jobs first before we start looking at foreign workers? Am hearing that we can't get this worker or we can't get this so we have to look else were and yet some people can't get jobs here because of foregin workers so they go abroad not by choice but have to.
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    Live life to the full

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  • theslayer369
    2009 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Like you Barry I said I wasn't coming back on here. But here I am.

    I try to be compassionate , but you are talking about a handful of immigrants. there are still hundreds of thousands queuing to come here, what then, do we make Brittain one long housing estate from one end to the other, we haven't enough room, we are only a small country.

    Our schools and hospitals are already at breaking point. I don't have a problem with immigrants, but in moderation. We have to draw a line somewhere along the way. You know, we can't take them all, we just don't have the space or the resources, and there isn't enough jobs for hundreds of thousands of extra people. We have to be realistic.

    Where is the money going to come from to pay for the benifits of the ones who can't get work, for the houses, health etc. Who's going to pay for it, we are already in debt and borrowing money. You can't expect the tax payers to keep paying extra, at a time when they and most of people are struggling themselves.

    @Juliet, My sister has lived in Spain for 15 years or more, she says most ex pats come back here to be treated on our NHS, they just give a relatives address.
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Like you Barry I said I wasn't coming back on here. But here I am.

    I try to be compassionate , but you are talking about a handful of immigrants. there are still hundreds of thousands queuing to come here, what then, do we make Brittain one long housing estate from one end to the other, we haven't enough room, we are only a small country.

    Our schools and hospitals are already at breaking point. I don't have a problem with immigrants, but in moderation. We have to draw a line somewhere along the way. You know, we can't take them all, we just don't have the space or the resources, and there isn't enough jobs for hundreds of thousands of extra people. We have to be realistic.

    Where is the money going to come from to pay for the benifits of the ones who can't get work, for the houses, health etc. Who's going to pay for it, we are already in debt and borrowing money. You can't expect the tax payers to keep paying extra, at a time when they and most of people are struggling themselves.

    @Juliet, My sister has lived in Spain for 15 years or more, she says most ex pats come back here to be treated on our NHS, they just give a relatives address.

    Thanks slayer this is 100% right.
    My friend list is full

    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • lynnmckenz82
    2613 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    You all have done a great job at arguing without getting too emotional (must be the Britishness :mrgreen: ). But I think the mods should consider locking this thread, as it obviously IS an emotional issue to so many, and passions can run high.

    Meanwhile, we Americans should see this as a cautionary tale, and not start any "Congratulations Hillary!" or "Congratulations Trump!" threads in November.
    Imagine there's a signature image here.--Lynn McKenzie
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    You all have done a great job at arguing without getting too emotional (must be the Britishness :mrgreen: ). But I think the mods should consider locking this thread, as it obviously IS an emotional issue to so many, and passions can run high.

    Meanwhile, we Americans should see this as a cautionary tale, and not start any "Congratulations Hillary!" or "Congratulations Trump!" threads in November.

    No it shouldn't be locked am getting my point accross here it's not my fault it's getting thrown back at me.


    Edit it can't be locked cos there are answers that need answering. We are having a discussion. (Albeit a heated one) :lol:
    My friend list is full

    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • lynnmckenz82
    2613 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    HomerND84 wrote:
    You all have done a great job at arguing without getting too emotional (must be the Britishness :mrgreen: ). But I think the mods should consider locking this thread, as it obviously IS an emotional issue to so many, and passions can run high.

    Meanwhile, we Americans should see this as a cautionary tale, and not start any "Congratulations Hillary!" or "Congratulations Trump!" threads in November.

    No it shouldn't be locked am getting my point accross here it's not my fault it's getting thrown back at me.


    Edit it can't be locked cos there are answers that need answering. We are having a discussion. (Albeit a heated one) :lol:

    I can tell you right now that no one is going to change anyone else's mind on this issue. (Or most others.) So there's really no point to it except to insist that you are right and those who oppose you are wrong, and I suspect feelings are going to get hurt, if they haven't been already. (When I say "you" I mean everyone stating an opinion.)

    Mods, again I suggest that you lock this thread before people get angry. I'll say no more.

    Imagine there's a signature image here.--Lynn McKenzie
  • juliet603
    17888 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    @Slayer you're right about coming back for the medical treatment, I know he did that one time and does for dentist visits, but the times he had to go to hospital over there were due to accidents, so he didn't really have a choice. Your sis is lucky by the way :(

    @Nick he's looked into it but he can't apply as he hasn't lived there long enough and doesn't intend to stay forever either. He's just worried that after leaving the EU he won't be able to continue working abroad like he has for the past almost ten years, but that's just something we'll have to wait and see about once the other EU countries have decided what they're going to do about Brits working there now.

    Obviously I was generalising about people on benefits and drunk scrubbers, of course not everyone is like that, but you are generalising about immigrants. There's a lady I talk to while dog walking (Romanian I think) who works full time as a cleaner and is taking night courses to get a degree as a social worker, AND had three kids, and she actually said really happily "but you can't complain". Look at the shops run by the "old school" immigrants and they work the longest hours ever! Most people who come here work really hard, they don't come for hand outs.

    @Lynn you're probably right - even if for no other reason than to force me to stop coming back on here! :lol:
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    HomerND84 wrote:
    You all have done a great job at arguing without getting too emotional (must be the Britishness :mrgreen: ). But I think the mods should consider locking this thread, as it obviously IS an emotional issue to so many, and passions can run high.

    Meanwhile, we Americans should see this as a cautionary tale, and not start any "Congratulations Hillary!" or "Congratulations Trump!" threads in November.

    No it shouldn't be locked am getting my point accross here it's not my fault it's getting thrown back at me.


    Edit it can't be locked cos there are answers that need answering. We are having a discussion. (Albeit a heated one) :lol:

    I can tell you right now that no one is going to change anyone else's mind on this issue. (Or most others.) So there's really no point to it except to insist that you are right and those who oppose you are wrong, and I suspect feelings are going to get hurt, if they haven't been already. (When I say "you" I mean everyone stating an opinion.)

    Mods, again I suggest that you lock this thread before people get angry. I'll say no more.


    It's an ongoing discussion. Am saying my points others are saying there's we are entitled too.
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    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    I have my views and so do you but don't use ageism or racism. I apologise for an earlier comment about younger people.
    My friend list is full

    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • theslayer369
    2009 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    It's interesting hearing other people's views, even though I may not agree with them doesn't mean I think any less of that person. I like to know what/how other people think, we are after all a democratic country and everyone is entitled to their own view. Also it can open up areas that each of us hadn't thought about.

    It's good to talk and discuss.

    This thread will close by itself when people have said what they have to say, then it will fizzle out naturally.
  • NicholasD1984
    2713 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Hey all this arguing has made me thirsty. It's carling time :)
    My friend list is full

    Live life to the full

    Love you Davo Rest in paradise
  • juliet603
    17888 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    HomerND84 wrote:
    Hey all this arguing has made me thirsty. It's carling time :)

    2 steps ahead of you ;)
  • theslayer369
    2009 posts Member
    edited June 2016
    Yep I'm definately going off now , I mean it, not coming on again.........I need a glass of wine.
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