What do you all suggest someone have in $$ and % before they start farming in order to make it profitable?

There's a lot of variables here. Many more than just $ and multiplier.

I know people have posted spreadsheets and such, which have been helpful, but I'm surprised no one has made an online calculator yet regarding farming. The user would enter various variables and out would pop suggestions.

I'm not sure there would be one calculator which would work for everyone; people like to track lots of different things in addition to straight farming.

Also, I don't think a one time calculator would be sufficient to give good suggestions. For example, I track daily change in my total income, which I then use to calculate the correct number of KEM I should be building to hit balance. Using the daily value wouldn't be very helpful (too volatile) so i'm using a rolling 5 day average. Just telling a calc how much income I have today wouldn't be enough to get the right answer.

Just doesn't seem to fit well for an online tool imho

Just telling a calc how much income I have today wouldn't be enough to get the right answer.

Of course not. And I wasn't suggesting that a basic calculator would work for everyone, especially people who track every little thing that happens in their game, etc. But for many basic players it would be helpful. And it wouldn't go off by just income. One would enter their multiplier, how often they intend on logging on, how long they want to farm, select their goals, etc. along with other variables. It would give people a general idea of what they could expect in terms of donuts per day etc.

I did create an online calculator for myself, in trying to find what strategy I should be using to optimize cash per donut when clearing KEMs.

I know someone posted the math a long time ago, telling you at one point it's not worth opening the 2nd or 3rd donut box (based on your multiplier) but the sim makes it easier.

When I started, the SIM told me to open all three boxes; with my current multiplier (733+SH) the SIM tells me to stop at 2 OR 3 donuts (but never 1)-- I get a better payout this way. I enter my multiplier everytime it changes significantly and one day the sim will tell me to just take the first box each time!

You can try it here: http://lwshost.com/tsto/simkem.pl
You can change all the variables so if you want to try with bloodmobiles instead of KEM's etc you can just put the correct cost in there.

That's interesting for comparing the different strategies against each other, although it uses a fixed cost for the KEMs so the $ per donut will be significantly higher than selling down and buying from $220 each round.

What rationale are you using to differentiate XP gained from placing KEMs and building/task income XP so that it (sometimes) recommends two strategies rather than just one?

I did create an online calculator for myself, in trying to find what strategy I should be using to optimize cash per donut when clearing KEMs.

I know someone posted the math a long time ago, telling you at one point it's not worth opening the 2nd or 3rd donut box (based on your multiplier) but the sim makes it easier.

When I started, the SIM told me to open all three boxes; with my current multiplier (733+SH) the SIM tells me to stop at 2 OR 3 donuts (but never 1)-- I get a better payout this way. I enter my multiplier everytime it changes significantly and one day the sim will tell me to just take the first box each time!

You can try it here: http://lwshost.com/tsto/simkem.pl
You can change all the variables so if you want to try with bloodmobiles instead of KEM's etc you can just put the correct cost in there.

Let me know what I can do to add / improve...!

Thats a really cool tool/calculator. My multiplier is at 1646% and I just assumed it was a good idea to stop at the first box so it's nice to see that I'm making the right choice. Wish I would have known about this before so I could have gotten max value. Definitely a great tool for those interested in knowing how to maximize their intake when farming. Thanks for posting it!

That's interesting for comparing the different strategies against each other, although it uses a fixed cost for the KEMs so the $ per donut will be significantly higher than selling down and buying from $220 each round.

What rationale are you using to differentiate XP gained from placing KEMs and building/task income XP so that it (sometimes) recommends two strategies rather than just one?

Yeah I'm considering putting in the variable costs for the KEM but then I also have to ask for the quantity built per harvest. I'll see what I can do. In my case I build close to 70 per batch so the first 24 don't make a big big difference--but I can see where, for a newer user, that might be a difference.

Re: Rationale:
In my case, it still costs $109 K to build enough KEM's to get a single donut bonus popup. So while /not/ harvesting and just clearing tasks and building income, the "100k for 3 donuts" is still a better investment than the "2 or 3 donuts" strategy that I'm using for KEM harvesting.

Once the cost for a round of KEM triggering the bonus boxes is lower than 100k then it's not as profitable to open the three boxes, and the "2 or 3 donuts" strategy comes to play.

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I see what you're saying although I'm not sure I'd support that rationale, as I'm more inclined to consider that once the bonuts game has been triggered, I'm no longer concerned with the cost of triggering it and will choose the strategy for playing it based only on the potential costs of moving forwards from that point.

Thanks for the reply and explanation. I see what you're saying although I'm not sure I'd support that rationale, as I'm more inclined to consider that once the bonuts game has been triggered, I'm no longer concerned with the cost of triggering it and will choose the strategy for playing it based only on the potential costs of moving forwards from that point.

Yeah to be honest I was struggling with that too. You'll notice it only suggests the second strategy (open 3 when not harvesting) when the cost is above 100k. I haven't really thought out how that should work.
But on the 100k note I'm convinced for the following:
If it costs you more than 100k in KEMs to get a single bonus box:
- you spend over 100k in KEM and get 1, 2 or 3 donuts
- OR you get a bonus box naturally while clearing tasks, and for 100k you are garanteed 3 donuts.

That's why I separate the two in the strategy list. When it costs more than 100k for a bonus from the KEM's, it's profitable to spend that 100k on non-KEM bonus boxes.

I know it's not clear-cut when you consider that you can't separate XP collected from KEM's left over in your bar-- but at my multiplier I tend to get 1 bonus while clearing each 4 hours -- prior to doing the KEM harvest. So... -- for me, it works. but it's a minor difference in strategy in any case.

If you're farming bonus boxes, you'll end up opening lots. On average you'll pay $50k for every bonus box opened. Unless you have a multiplier which would get you another bonus from the 50k (3500%ish) you should always pay to 3.

If you're farming bonus boxes, you'll end up opening lots. On average you'll pay $50k for every bonus box opened. Unless you have a multiplier which would get you another bonus from the 50k (3500%ish) you should always pay to 3.

This is incorrect. That was the point on building the simulator I linked earlier. I'm at 733℅ + SH and with the collider I need to spend 109k to get another bonus. It's still more cost effective for me to stop at 2 donuts, and soon enough to stop at the first box.

Try the simulator to see. Someone did the math in another post and came to the same conclusion

The reason is this:
My 109k has a 1/3 chance of giving 3, 2 or 1 donuts
That's an average of 2 donuts for 55k each. So on the front it seems like the 50k for the second and third box is a good deal. The problem is if you open the first box and it's 2 donuts, the next box might be 1, costing you 100k just to go from 2 to 3 donuts.

At my multiplier each strategy is pretty close but at about 800℅ + sh it's always more profitable to stop at 2 donuts

I didn't think so either until I wrote the simulator

I work daily on increasing my bonus percentage, but I'm more casual about it (if you will). When I receive 3 boxes to open, I always play until I receive 3 donuts.

You got a great looking town~168sean... Checked out your town, WOW! ~daved

For me if I get 2 donuts I'll stop there, but if I get 1 one, I'll always go for 3.
Might not be the most cost-efficient way, but my life is not only this game.

For me if I get 2 donuts I'll stop there, but if I get 1 one, I'll always go for 3.
Might not be the most cost-efficient way, but my life is not only this game.

For me, at this stage of the game, cost efficiency is a non-issue as well. I currently have over $585M so spending in-game currency is not a concern.

You got a great looking town~168sean... Checked out your town, WOW! ~daved

If you're farming bonus boxes, you'll end up opening lots. On average you'll pay $50k for every bonus box opened. Unless you have a multiplier which would get you another bonus from the 50k (3500%ish) you should always pay to 3.

This is incorrect. That was the point on building the simulator I linked earlier. I'm at 733℅ + SH and with the collider I need to spend 109k to get another bonus. It's still more cost effective for me to stop at 2 donuts, and soon enough to stop at the first box.

Try the simulator to see. Someone did the math in another post and came to the same conclusion

The reason is this:
My 109k has a 1/3 chance of giving 3, 2 or 1 donuts
That's an average of 2 donuts for 55k each. So on the front it seems like the 50k for the second and third box is a good deal. The problem is if you open the first box and it's 2 donuts, the next box might be 1, costing you 100k just to go from 2 to 3 donuts.

At my multiplier each strategy is pretty close but at about 800℅ + sh it's always more profitable to stop at 2 donuts

I didn't think so either until I wrote the simulator

Sorry but you're incorrect.

Thanks but I've done the math, and confirmed with observation. The average cost is 50k.

One chance of chance of 3 in the first round (33%). Zero cost.
Two chances of 3 in the second round. (17% each) costing 50k each.
Two chances of 3 in the third round (17% each). Costing 100k each.

Multiply the cost by the probability and sum, you'll see the average cost of getting three donuts is $50k.

When I receive 3 boxes to open, I always play until I receive 3 donuts.

Yes, as YesMan would say. I think this stopping-at-2 thing is an illusion. How does that earn you more donuts in the long run again? Because i just earned more donuts than you in the short term by taking the 3 , and since i repeat that every 4 hours that means many more examples of earning more donuts in the long term too. My cash already stays even, so i can keep grabbing the 3 forever with no problems, and my farm plot size is already full so i wont be adding any volume to it based on reduced donut box costs. So the whole McDonald's style Pick 2 thing looks silly to me. Maybe it makes more sense in other people's systems who do alter their farm size based on their donut picking luck each round.

When I receive 3 boxes to open, I always play until I receive 3 donuts.

Yes, as YesMan would say. I think this stopping-at-2 thing is an illusion. How does that earn you more donuts in the long run again? Because i just earned more donuts than you in the short term by taking the 3 , and since i repeat that every 4 hours that means many more examples of earning more donuts in the long term too. My cash already stays even, so i can keep grabbing the 3 forever with no problems, and my farm plot size is already full so i wont be adding any volume to it based on reduced donut box costs. So the whole McDonald's style Pick 2 thing looks silly to me. Maybe it makes more sense in other people's systems who do alter their farm size based on their donut picking luck each round.

Like I mentioned, I'm just casual about this. I have more than enough currency so I just play until I reach 3 donuts. Truth be told, I don't even really need the donuts as I'm able to generate thousands a day (if I want to sit there and tap until I'm nauseous lol) from bloodmobiles.

You got a great looking town~168sean... Checked out your town, WOW! ~daved

I'm able to log in multiple times per day and use this simple strategy:
XP Collider always on.
I buy 25 KEM's. I'll buy one at $14,400 then I stop. I can do this up to 5 times a day.
I go for 3 donuts every time
I get 2 boxes each round of KEM farming.
This means up to 30 donuts a day, plus what I get through normal level ups. I'm at level 939 and clicking characters and buildings seems to add more than one donut box per day, I haven't tracked my daily XP, but when I have all characters on 24 hour tasks, I seem to complete a full level when I clear their jobs, plus the buildings which are ready to collect from. Plus, find Maggie, and the weekly railyard donuts. Got one box of donuts after act 1 completed, should get maybe 2-3 more.
Eventually, as my multiplier grows I'll get more.

I've tried getting 100 to 400 KEM's at a time but it's a major pain placing, clicking, then selling a large number back. Besides, I'm low on cash now, still need 12 pieces of land. Also, doing it this way means I'm not investing as much as many of you are as $14,400 per KEM when you get more than 25 adds up! Once I have all the land, I'll think about reassessing. I can earn over $2 million a day when there is no event going on.

Everyone's game is different. some can get thousands of donuts each week, some struggle to get a few. This isn't a competition with each other, it's all about having fun.

## Replies

I know people have posted spreadsheets and such, which have been helpful, but I'm surprised no one has made an online calculator yet regarding farming. The user would enter various variables and out would pop suggestions.

Also, I don't think a one time calculator would be sufficient to give good suggestions. For example, I track daily change in my total income, which I then use to calculate the correct number of KEM I should be building to hit balance. Using the daily value wouldn't be very helpful (too volatile) so i'm using a rolling 5 day average. Just telling a calc how much income I have today wouldn't be enough to get the right answer.

Just doesn't seem to fit well for an online tool imho

Of course not. And I wasn't suggesting that a basic calculator would work for everyone, especially people who track every little thing that happens in their game, etc. But for many basic players it would be helpful. And it wouldn't go off by just income. One would enter their multiplier, how often they intend on logging on, how long they want to farm, select their goals, etc. along with other variables. It would give people a general idea of what they could expect in terms of donuts per day etc.

I know someone posted the math a long time ago, telling you at one point it's not worth opening the 2nd or 3rd donut box (based on your multiplier) but the sim makes it easier.

When I started, the SIM told me to open all three boxes; with my current multiplier (733+SH) the SIM tells me to stop at 2 OR 3 donuts (but never 1)-- I get a better payout this way. I enter my multiplier everytime it changes significantly and one day the sim will tell me to just take the first box each time!

You can try it here:

http://lwshost.com/tsto/simkem.pl

You can change all the variables so if you want to try with bloodmobiles instead of KEM's etc you can just put the correct cost in there.

Let me know what I can do to add / improve...!

What rationale are you using to differentiate XP gained from placing KEMs and building/task income XP so that it (sometimes) recommends two strategies rather than just one?

Thats a really cool tool/calculator. My multiplier is at 1646% and I just assumed it was a good idea to stop at the first box so it's nice to see that I'm making the right choice. Wish I would have known about this before so I could have gotten max value. Definitely a great tool for those interested in knowing how to maximize their intake when farming. Thanks for posting it!

Yeah I'm considering putting in the variable costs for the KEM but then I also have to ask for the quantity built per harvest. I'll see what I can do. In my case I build close to 70 per batch so the first 24 don't make a big big difference--but I can see where, for a newer user, that might be a difference.

Re: Rationale:

In my case, it still costs $109 K to build enough KEM's to get a single donut bonus popup. So while /not/ harvesting and just clearing tasks and building income, the "100k for 3 donuts" is still a better investment than the "2 or 3 donuts" strategy that I'm using for KEM harvesting.

Once the cost for a round of KEM triggering the bonus boxes is lower than 100k then it's not as profitable to open the three boxes, and the "2 or 3 donuts" strategy comes to play.

Yeah to be honest I was struggling with that too. You'll notice it only suggests the second strategy (open 3 when not harvesting) when the cost is above 100k. I haven't really thought out how that should work.

But on the 100k note I'm convinced for the following:

If it costs you more than 100k in KEMs to get a single bonus box:

- you spend over 100k in KEM and get 1, 2 or 3 donuts

- OR you get a bonus box naturally while clearing tasks, and for 100k you are garanteed 3 donuts.

That's why I separate the two in the strategy list. When it costs more than 100k for a bonus from the KEM's, it's profitable to spend that 100k on non-KEM bonus boxes.

I know it's not clear-cut when you consider that you can't separate XP collected from KEM's left over in your bar-- but at my multiplier I tend to get 1 bonus while clearing each 4 hours -- prior to doing the KEM harvest. So... -- for me, it works. but it's a minor difference in strategy in any case.

This is incorrect. That was the point on building the simulator I linked earlier. I'm at 733℅ + SH and with the collider I need to spend 109k to get another bonus. It's still more cost effective for me to stop at 2 donuts, and soon enough to stop at the first box.

Try the simulator to see. Someone did the math in another post and came to the same conclusion

The reason is this:

My 109k has a 1/3 chance of giving 3, 2 or 1 donuts

That's an average of 2 donuts for 55k each. So on the front it seems like the 50k for the second and third box is a good deal. The problem is if you open the first box and it's 2 donuts, the next box might be 1, costing you 100k just to go from 2 to 3 donuts.

At my multiplier each strategy is pretty close but at about 800℅ + sh it's always more profitable to stop at 2 donuts

I didn't think so either until I wrote the simulator

You got a great looking town~168sean...Checked out your town, WOW! ~davedMight not be the most cost-efficient way, but my life is not only this game.

For me, at this stage of the game, cost efficiency is a non-issue as well. I currently have over $585M so spending in-game currency is not a concern.

You got a great looking town~168sean...Checked out your town, WOW! ~davedSorry but you're incorrect.

Thanks but I've done the math, and confirmed with observation. The average cost is 50k.

One chance of chance of 3 in the first round (33%). Zero cost.

Two chances of 3 in the second round. (17% each) costing 50k each.

Two chances of 3 in the third round (17% each). Costing 100k each.

Multiply the cost by the probability and sum, you'll see the average cost of getting three donuts is $50k.

Yes, as YesMan would say. I think this stopping-at-2 thing is an illusion. How does that earn you more donuts in the long run again? Because i just earned more donuts than you in the short term by taking the 3 , and since i repeat that every 4 hours that means many more examples of earning more donuts in the long term too. My cash already stays even, so i can keep grabbing the 3 forever with no problems, and my farm plot size is already full so i wont be adding any volume to it based on reduced donut box costs. So the whole McDonald's style Pick 2 thing looks silly to me. Maybe it makes more sense in other people's systems who do alter their farm size based on their donut picking luck each round.

Like I mentioned, I'm just casual about this. I have more than enough currency so I just play until I reach 3 donuts. Truth be told, I don't even really need the donuts as I'm able to generate thousands a day (if I want to sit there and tap until I'm nauseous lol) from bloodmobiles.

You got a great looking town~168sean...Checked out your town, WOW! ~davedThree 50k for three donuts is correct but doesn't consider the initial investment

The simulator tallies all expenses and rewards and my real testing Comes to the same result

When including the initial cost and comparing the two strategies, the stop at 2 becomes more profitable at around 800 % + sh and Collider.

Feel free to play how you like in any case! I'll trust the simulation.

Have fun!

XP Collider always on.

I buy 25 KEM's. I'll buy one at $14,400 then I stop. I can do this up to 5 times a day.

I go for 3 donuts every time

I get 2 boxes each round of KEM farming.

This means up to 30 donuts a day, plus what I get through normal level ups. I'm at level 939 and clicking characters and buildings seems to add more than one donut box per day, I haven't tracked my daily XP, but when I have all characters on 24 hour tasks, I seem to complete a full level when I clear their jobs, plus the buildings which are ready to collect from. Plus, find Maggie, and the weekly railyard donuts. Got one box of donuts after act 1 completed, should get maybe 2-3 more.

Eventually, as my multiplier grows I'll get more.

I've tried getting 100 to 400 KEM's at a time but it's a major pain placing, clicking, then selling a large number back. Besides, I'm low on cash now, still need 12 pieces of land. Also, doing it this way means I'm not investing as much as many of you are as $14,400 per KEM when you get more than 25 adds up! Once I have all the land, I'll think about reassessing. I can earn over $2 million a day when there is no event going on.

Everyone's game is different. some can get thousands of donuts each week, some struggle to get a few. This isn't a competition with each other, it's all about having fun.